Donsmith753
Footballguy
I didn't draft a kicker based on the fact that I thought we were moving to 25 man rosters. We need to make a decision.
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Dynasty start-up mock draft (1 Viewer)
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I think you should have drafted a kicker with your last pick. Right now you don't have a valid starting lineup.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
You're probably right. I'll wait until a decision is made re the roster size before cutting anyone though.
sholditch
Footballguy
I didn't draft a kicker either. I never waste draft picks on kickers, especially with this much time left before the season starts. Would much rather take prospects and see what shakes out in camps. BTW, Charles Scott out of LSU is Mr. Irrelevant, though the fact that he's the only RB on the Iggles roster over 220 makes me think that title might not be fitting.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Maybe if we want to increase roster size we could have a supplemental draft. If you take one player you give up your 5th round rookie pick, if you take two you give up your 4th + 5th etc. After that any players still available are free to be picked up.
Would this be too complex?
Would this be too complex?
There has been no confirmation of increased roster size. Just some simple discussion with regards to how we handle the end of year stuff. I think the two of you should be forced to draft a starting lineup within the 22 picks we agreed upon. If that means dropping your last picks to place a kicker on your team, so be it. I certainly don't want to increase roster size just because you guys decided to pass on kickers in the hopes of adding more skill position players on your roster. The other 10 of us didn't pass on kickers in the hopes of landing more potential.......we took at least one kicker knowing we would need them to post a valid starting lineup. We haven't really discussed free-agent pickups or waiver moves prior to the start of the NFL season either.....have we? Heck, if I had known we could surely play around with our rosters before then, I wouldn't have drafted any kickers or for that matter any defenses at all. I simply would have made decisions closer to the season as to who to drop to acquire a kicker and a defense.
You guys need to rethink your stance. You need at least one kicker by the end of these 22 rounds.
Rody
You guys need to rethink your stance. You need at least one kicker by the end of these 22 rounds.
Rody
Instinctive
Footballguy
I kind of agree. In the other two dynasties I started this year, you had to fill out your entire roster, and one was an auction...I wanted to get all starters with one backup each and no kickers or D's, but it was disallowed.
I think it's kind of the same concept here. I think waivers open up after the final preseason game, or we do bidding for FA similar to the Zealots style. That's typically how I do it, and always how I do a redraft (the no K or D strategy I mean) nut in dynasty I think it just may suck for you, because K do have some inkling of stability.
I think it's kind of the same concept here. I think waivers open up after the final preseason game, or we do bidding for FA similar to the Zealots style. That's typically how I do it, and always how I do a redraft (the no K or D strategy I mean) nut in dynasty I think it just may suck for you, because K do have some inkling of stability.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
There was nothing in the rules about it though, surely it should be up to each individual how they draft but that they have to start a full lineup come week one or they get penalised. I was always going to go without a kicker even before we talked about increasing roster size. I think it should be up to us how we accquire our starting lineups whether we use the draft, waivers or trades.
I assumed drafting a starting lineup was inherently necessary or required. My mistake. As well as 9 others. Touche.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
This doesn't need nor do I want this to be an issue, if we get a decision from one of the guys running the league I'm quite happy to swap a guy for a kicker. Guess this is the problem with setting up a league on the fly.
I'll work with whatever is decided. If the majority don't see an issue here, then I'll accept it. I don't think it's a major issue, just a sticking point.
Rody
Rody
Instinctive
Footballguy
I'm 100% ok with how you did it, I debated doing the same and agree that drafting a full outfit of starters wasn't required.
But I don't think you should get a free shot at picking up those positions, I think we should either bid for waivers (again, I point to Zealots leagues as a model), or you need to burn your waiver priority to fill out your lineup. That is, IMO, the most logical way to go about it.
If we bid for players in FA, then I don't see any reason there'd be an issue with keeping it open on site, throughout the offseason. If we don't, I think all FA should be locked until start of preseason, or the end of week 4 of preseason.
But I don't think you should get a free shot at picking up those positions, I think we should either bid for waivers (again, I point to Zealots leagues as a model), or you need to burn your waiver priority to fill out your lineup. That is, IMO, the most logical way to go about it.
If we bid for players in FA, then I don't see any reason there'd be an issue with keeping it open on site, throughout the offseason. If we don't, I think all FA should be locked until start of preseason, or the end of week 4 of preseason.
sholditch
Footballguy
You assume no minimum requirements unless explicitly stated, and no WW moves is not even in the realm of normal and was also not stated. Show me in the rules on post 1 where it says you have to draft a full starting lineup and I will gladly throw my last pick back for a kicker. But unless it was explicitly stated it should not have been assumed, regardless of what other leagues might do. Sorry, that's the only way to be fair to everyone. If people assumed something without it being explicitly stated, then that's their assumption, not a rule. The only "rules" for this league are in post 1 and I don't remember seeing that. No retroactive rules should be allowed. We should have a league vote on rules going forward (ie next year's draft) but anything that effects the draft we just had shouldn't be allowed.
sholditch
Footballguy
I agree with this.
I like the idea of a supplemental draft. The guy willing to give up the highest draft pick from 2011 would get the highest pick, the guy willing to give up the 2nd highest would get the 1.2 etc. This will also solve the problem of what to do with Harvey Unga. As soon as he signs with an NFL team, he will be eligible on MFL. Im thinking we do a 3 supplemental draft some time in August. Of course the two guys who didnt draft kickers should have to drop their last player to take one. Its only fair considering that some teams were assuming they wouldnt have another chance at getting a kicker.
Let me get one more thing straight, you guys dont want to have any waiver pickups during the season, correct? So whatever our roster is before the 2010 season, will be our roster until the rookie/FA draft?
Let me get one more thing straight, you guys dont want to have any waiver pickups during the season, correct? So whatever our roster is before the 2010 season, will be our roster until the rookie/FA draft?
Instinctive
Footballguy
Why wouldn't we have waivers during the season?
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
I don't like this idea too much. I like paying attention and getting guys like Miles Austin before they're Miles Austin.But I'm down for whatever the league is for.
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jeter23
Footballguy
Seems like we are making this more complicated than it should be. Let's stick with 22 man rosters since that is what we had before. The waiver wire will be active.
We can make this a draft only league and have no waivers or lineups and we will basically be done. This might help to test the theory about taking a QB in the 1st.
We can make it just a normal league- FCFS free agents and waivers once a week.
I do feel pretty strong about offseason waivers. If we don't have activity in the offseason, what is the point of playing dynasty?
We can make this a draft only league and have no waivers or lineups and we will basically be done. This might help to test the theory about taking a QB in the 1st.
We can make it just a normal league- FCFS free agents and waivers once a week.
I do feel pretty strong about offseason waivers. If we don't have activity in the offseason, what is the point of playing dynasty?
Instinctive
Footballguy
We can do waivers in the offseason. Let's have them process on Fridays?
In season, we could do waivers that process on Thursday (well before Thursday games) and Saturday. Then maybe FCFS Sunday and Monday, and all players are locked into waivers as soon as their game starts?
That way people who forgot to get a starter can still grab the MNF kicker replacement, but they can't get the backup to a RB who got hurt Sunday night until waivers process the following Thursday.
Wow, that looks really complicated. But it sounds incredibly simple in my head
In season, we could do waivers that process on Thursday (well before Thursday games) and Saturday. Then maybe FCFS Sunday and Monday, and all players are locked into waivers as soon as their game starts?
That way people who forgot to get a starter can still grab the MNF kicker replacement, but they can't get the backup to a RB who got hurt Sunday night until waivers process the following Thursday.
Wow, that looks really complicated. But it sounds incredibly simple in my head
Its all pretty simple, once we all agree on something.We can do waivers in the offseason. Let's have them process on Fridays?In season, we could do waivers that process on Thursday (well before Thursday games) and Saturday. Then maybe FCFS Sunday and Monday, and all players are locked into waivers as soon as their game starts?That way people who forgot to get a starter can still grab the MNF kicker replacement, but they can't get the backup to a RB who got hurt Sunday night until waivers process the following Thursday.Wow, that looks really complicated. But it sounds incredibly simple in my head
sholditch
Footballguy
If this isn't run like a normal league (trades, WW, FAs) I'm out.
jeter23
Footballguy
Well, if there are no trades, waivers, lineups etc., we don't need you anymore anyway.
Seriously, I also prefer this just run as a normal league.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Well, if there are no trades, waivers, lineups etc., we don't need you anymore anyway.Seriously, I also prefer this just run as a normal league.
Me too.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Here here!
Catbird
Footballguy
It sounds like normal league is what we all want, but what we each see as 'normal' may be a lot different from each other.
I suggest we make decisions by poll. When we get a majority the poll closes. We could start off with polls on roster size (and maybe then completion draft date, if any), roster composition requirements, if any - with time for everyone to comply, whether to allow trades and wiavers pre-season and during the season (although I think having both will win handliy), and I suspect waiver rules will take several polls. (I don't like FCFS - favoring those with no jobs or jobs with better hours, more friendly time zones, etc, but prefer either a budget-based system or reverse standings or a rotating priority system rooted in fairness rather than sheer opportunity. And I would rather do it once a week and shut down in between - but I realize I have created my own problem by trying to have both a life and a dynasty team.) But we can whittle this down pretty quickly with a few votes, no? I think we just need someone to take responsibility to set them up in a logical order.
I suggest we make decisions by poll. When we get a majority the poll closes. We could start off with polls on roster size (and maybe then completion draft date, if any), roster composition requirements, if any - with time for everyone to comply, whether to allow trades and wiavers pre-season and during the season (although I think having both will win handliy), and I suspect waiver rules will take several polls. (I don't like FCFS - favoring those with no jobs or jobs with better hours, more friendly time zones, etc, but prefer either a budget-based system or reverse standings or a rotating priority system rooted in fairness rather than sheer opportunity. And I would rather do it once a week and shut down in between - but I realize I have created my own problem by trying to have both a life and a dynasty team.) But we can whittle this down pretty quickly with a few votes, no? I think we just need someone to take responsibility to set them up in a logical order.
steelcityman
Footballguy
whatever the people in charge decide, just let everyone else know via email or PM.
I dont care what the rules are, but if there is waivers or add/drops, I'd like to know.
I dont care what the rules are, but if there is waivers or add/drops, I'd like to know.
gandalas
Footballguy
The only thing that I feel strongly about is keeping the rosters at 22. This is what the draft was set up for, and I am sure that a lot of people (myself included) would have run our drafts differently if we had known that 3 more spots were going to be open.
Other than that, I am good with whatever else.
Other than that, I am good with whatever else.
I agree with this completely. No additional roster spots.
It hasn't been noted here yet, but there is a poll set up on the MFL site asking about roster size. I didn't notice until today when I customized my homepage to include the League Poll dialogue box. If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't have noticed the poll. I only looked because it was suggested (but not confirmed) here that polls could be used to determine various league matters. It wasn't mentioned on the League Message Board at MFL that a poll was created either. Not everyone has their homepage set up the same.
Seven (7) folks have voted so far, including me.
Rody
Seven (7) folks have voted so far, including me.
Rody
sholditch
Footballguy
lol, good point, and I'd probably be the first team to consistently lose because I didn't address kicker in the draft.Ok, normal league, good deal. When does the WW open? I need a kicker.Well, if there are no trades, waivers, lineups etc., we don't need you anymore anyway.Seriously, I also prefer this just run as a normal league.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
I agree too. I would have drafted differently as well.
steelcityman
Footballguy
Personally, I never think having roster moves BEFORE the first weeks games, is good for the league. Its allows people to draft whoever they want without consequence. While I can understand confusion with this draft, being thrown together so quickly, I also know that everyone knew a kicker was required to have a full lineup. If you didnt take a kicker, you should take a zero for that position week 1. Just my opinion. I dont care either way. Like someone else said, there were other players we kicker-takers would have rather taken, but we didnt cause we knew a kicker was needed for a lineup.
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Sorry it took me so long to get to this, but i wanted to get the leagues thoughts first. It appears we have a consensus on most of the issues here. We will be sticking to 22 man rosters. I will get everything else straightened out on the site by tonight. Everything should be good to go by tomorrow. If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM or email me.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
But we're drafting in late June, early July. I think it's different drafting much later in the year. I don't like the idea of simple pick ups and cutting of players ever or there's just too much turnover, blind bid waivers seems to me to be the fairest way. To your final point I'd say that if we'd known we HAD to draft a full lineup and that there would be no waivers until week 2 then we non-kicker takers would have drafted a kicker instead of a TC prospect.
Can we use the league site polls to establish rules, simple majority as was done with the roster size?
Instinctive
Footballguy
I want to make waiver moves before week 1. I think waivers should open up practically right away, process Thursdays, FCFS from then until each game starts. When a game starts, players are locked until the following Thursday waivers process.
And waiver order should be across the whole season. For instance, if we start with reverse order of the draft, I have priority 9. If 3 people make moves I have priority 6. After week 1 is played if my team scores highest and wins, I should still be priority 6. After week 3, 5 other teams grabbed waiver guys...I should be #1 at that point. And anytime you use your waiver position you go to the back. (12th)
And waiver order should be across the whole season. For instance, if we start with reverse order of the draft, I have priority 9. If 3 people make moves I have priority 6. After week 1 is played if my team scores highest and wins, I should still be priority 6. After week 3, 5 other teams grabbed waiver guys...I should be #1 at that point. And anytime you use your waiver position you go to the back. (12th)
Catbird
Footballguy
I think its crazy to not have some arrangement that would let teams fill their roster spots before week 1!
There was nothing stated that anyone had to have their roster spots filled within the 22 drafted positions. Some of us presumed that and drafted accordingly, and some assummed otherwise and didn't. I can't see heavily penalizing teams for something which wasn't clear in the stated rules. Obviously, the expectations of different owners were very different about what would be the waiver situation after the draft. We can't penalize for them not having the same exact presumption that others did.
But can we move from here to the league site for discussion? Its awfully disjointed to come here (or there) to talk and then to go there to vote on polls, add/drops, make trades, etc.? Is there any disadvantage to going there? Are we still up in the air about using the MFL site for the league?
There was nothing stated that anyone had to have their roster spots filled within the 22 drafted positions. Some of us presumed that and drafted accordingly, and some assummed otherwise and didn't. I can't see heavily penalizing teams for something which wasn't clear in the stated rules. Obviously, the expectations of different owners were very different about what would be the waiver situation after the draft. We can't penalize for them not having the same exact presumption that others did.
But can we move from here to the league site for discussion? Its awfully disjointed to come here (or there) to talk and then to go there to vote on polls, add/drops, make trades, etc.? Is there any disadvantage to going there? Are we still up in the air about using the MFL site for the league?
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steelcityman
Footballguy
we could have drafted in December, that is meaningless. So from now until Sept you clowns are going to make move after move, basically making the draft meaningless, making the later round worth nothing. Why draft? I can see if player Y goes down for the year in camp, but you all will be cutting players for no real reasons but to try and prove a point that you pay attention to some 17 year olds blog about Rams camp. I know I am not one to sit around at 4am just ot get first crack at Mewelde Moore. And for those of you dumb enough to think there arent going to be kickers used, then dont use one. You shouldnt have a problem not being able to pick up a kicker until week 2, afterall, kickers are worthless, right?
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If you go to the site you can vote in the polls and make sure this doesn't happen.For those who didn't draft a kicker, they should get a small window of opportunity to fix their roster so that they can field a complete lineup on week 1. That small window also gives the rest of us an opportunity to possibly improve our own rosters in some small, itty-bitty, teensie-weenie, polka dot bikini way.
Instinctive
Footballguy
What makes you think you need to be up at 4 am to get Mewelde Moore? WAIVERS means you submit your claim, an don Thursday, the team that wanted the player and has the highest priority, gets him. It doesn't matter if somebody got hurt on the opening kickoff and you claimed him right away, somebody else can claim him on Wednesday, and if he has higher priority, he gets him.Nobody is saying kickers are worthless, try to follow: There is a school of thought that grabbing an extra longshot to watch through camp is worth more than getting a better kicker, since kickers are typically inconsistent and difficult to predict anyway.And maybe i'm cutting a guy because I decide I'd rather have a long shot RB than a long shot WR that's available....e.g. Harvey Unga when/if he signs.I think we're all getting a bit bent out of shape over something that shouldn't be a big deal. Maybe you haven't ever played dynasty before, but every single league I've been in has waivers from the end of the rookie draft until the end of week 17. No real reason to do it otherwise. Besides, why do you care if I drop players to waivers? I'll be getting guys who you thought weren't good enough to draft...doesn't that mean you think eveyr pickup I make makes my team worse? Shouldn't you be all for that?ETA: The poll has no option for simple weekly waivers...I want waivers, but not free pickups or blind bidding...
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steelcityman
Footballguy
I, for one, think the draft is the most key part of a season, and by making unlimited waiver moves, even before a season starts, makes the draft less meaningful.
Obviously I dont care for all these moves before the season starts. But in reality, I dont care. Just keep everyone informed of the final decisions.
Obviously I dont care for all these moves before the season starts. But in reality, I dont care. Just keep everyone informed of the final decisions.
sholditch
Footballguy
Right and you're talking about giving us a zero for the first week even though we didn't break any established rules. I think that's a slightly worse punishment than just adjusting your draft strategy a little. Plus, if you were really valuing existing players over kickers, you probably would have waited until the last round to draft one, and there wasn't much there. You're talking about pick 22 in the draft vs directly impacting someone's season.If that had been a rule, I would have drafted a kicker. I did not assume any rules that were not laid out and drafted accordingly. I don't think I or anyone else should be punished for that.
ETA: Sorry to see that half the league has too much sand in their vag for IDPs. But we just need three more votes for a tie! BTW, what's the tie-breaker for these polls? Put it to the SP? AC Forum? Not sure where that fits.
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Catbird
Footballguy
I think only 1 team (if any) thinks you shouldn't get a fair chance to complete your lineup before week 1. I don't think you have any worry there.
I do think, however, that if you got enough super he-men like yourself to vote to make this an IDP league, when the rules we joined under stated team defenses, at least 4 owners who have no interest in learning IDP players and scoring at this point, would quit. I appreciate and support the need to fill in gaps that weren't clear from the start - to make it fair, to establish a waiver process, to figure out future draft rules, etc. Majority rules. But to want to just change the stated rules people agreed to play by in joining? I don't understand the motivation or why you think those who don't want to now play a completely different game than was agreed upon would stay?
I do think, however, that if you got enough super he-men like yourself to vote to make this an IDP league, when the rules we joined under stated team defenses, at least 4 owners who have no interest in learning IDP players and scoring at this point, would quit. I appreciate and support the need to fill in gaps that weren't clear from the start - to make it fair, to establish a waiver process, to figure out future draft rules, etc. Majority rules. But to want to just change the stated rules people agreed to play by in joining? I don't understand the motivation or why you think those who don't want to now play a completely different game than was agreed upon would stay?
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Instinctive
Footballguy
Especially when my draft strategy would change a lot had we done IDP...I picked very specific defenses, and reached for them to make sure I got them. Definitely would have taken more skill position guys earlier if we were doing IDP.
So...Blind Bid waivers, or position waivers? Either way, I think it's important that we have FCFS from Thursday until a player's game starts.
So...Blind Bid waivers, or position waivers? Either way, I think it's important that we have FCFS from Thursday until a player's game starts.
Instinctive
Footballguy
What? I meant anytime any player's game starts, his status is locked. E.g.: Pittsburgh vs Miami on Thursday night---all PIT and MIA players are locked as soon as the game kicks off until the following week when waivers process.But the Colts players aren't affected until they kick off at noon on Sunday, at which point they too are locked. Does that make more sense?
