Dynasty Start Ups--Rule Changes After the Initial Draft--Thoughts Plea (1 Viewer)

[Tibereas]

SP, looking for your thoughts on changing the rules after the startup draft.

Here's the situation. We have some owners in this start up that think that a majority vote should trump all and some that believe that the original rules should be followed closely with only slight ammendments.

Rule 1 being voted on is roster limit changes. All changes would take place next year in the offseason. We signed up and drafted with a 22 man roster. Many future picks were dealt in the start up draft and prices for the 2nd and 3rd round 2015 picks were pretty cheaply sold. Now some owners want to increase the roster size all the way up to 27 picks and add taxi players.

My stand is that there is a big difference between 22 and 27 man rosters. I am one of the owners that sold my future(2015) later rd picks as I believe its harder to roster them with a 22 man roster. Had I known before the draft I think it would have made those picks more valuable. Other owners think that this should have no effect on the picks values. The commish ruled on this and has stated we will only add 2 roster spots next year then reevaluate for 2016 which seems fair.

Rule 2 be chalenged is taxi squad. Some owners want to add this with possible draft picks being assigned to them or some contract thing.

My stand on this is that it's not what I signed up for and adds a different element that changes things to drastically.

Guess my question is how many rules should be allowed to even be brought to a vote before completely changing a league that just started. Seems like a fine line. Thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Phenix]

Rules get changed and voted on sometimes, its how it goes. Dont like the league, quit and play elsewhere.

 

[Tibereas]

Rules get changed and voted on sometimes, its how it goes. Dont like the league, quit and play elsewhere.

Clearly, that's always an option. So in your mind it's cool to change a league from or too a start 2 QB league from a start 1 or a 1ppr to 1.5 PPR TE league after a league has started. Or from a PPR to a standard scoring league? Guess I was hoping for a little more thought put into the response.

 

[lsutigers]

Rules get changed and voted on sometimes, its how it goes. Dont like the league, quit and play elsewhere.

Have to concur. The kicker for me is "All changes would take place next year in the offseason". Those changes aren't crazy enough given a season, and an offseason/draft(s) to prepare.

I couldn't even get my league (start 4 WR/TE) to approve a move from 1ppr for TE to 1.25ppr for TE, but a move from 6pt passing TD's to 4pt passing TD's passed. Figure that one out cause I can't.

 

[thriftyrocker]

In an established league, you have to grow a pair and respect the vote, or get better at arguing for your side.

If the league started a month ago and they are already changing the rules I would question whether the commish was too schizophrenic to deal with year after year and try and find a different league with more normal people in it.

 

[jwb]

I'm in favor of minor changes that aren't heavily affected by drafting/trades (drop the kicker, realign divisions, starting a bye week player so as not to make a drop, etc) can be decided by simple majority.

I think major changes (like roster spots, scoring, etc) need more than that. I think those should require a 75% vote to pass.

 

[B Maverick]

IMO there shouldn't be any rule changes proposed or voted on after the until after the initial season is done once the draft is held. How can you draft to one set of rules then change it prior to the season? Do you know the owners well, are the friends?

Seems you have a choice to make: deal with this for now, see what happens and get out if it becomes a habit or get out now since it doesnt look like the league you thought you signed up for.

 

[Tibereas]

I'm in favor of minor changes that aren't heavily affected by drafting/trades (drop the kicker, realign divisions, starting a bye week player so as not to make a drop, etc) can be decided by simple majority.

I think major changes (like roster spots, scoring, etc) need more than that. I think those should require a 75% vote to pass.

Good call, I like the 75% thing on major changes.

I could be over thinking this as I'm getting older but it seems like the major changes should have been brought up before the start up draft. Now all your going to get is votes that benefit owners individual teams.

 

[ghostguy123]

The roster size and taxi should NOT change until the the next year where everyone has all their picks. So if people have traded 2015 picks, nothing should change till 2016 at the earliest.

Making rule change is fine as long as people.aren't getting an unfair advantage. This would be unfair to people who have already traded picks.

 

[Concept Coop]

The roster size and taxi should NOT change until the the next year where everyone has all their picks. So if people have traded 2015 picks, nothing should change till 2016 at the earliest.

Making rule change is fine as long as people.aren't getting an unfair advantage. This would be unfair to people who have already traded picks.

At least. Jumping from 22 to 27+ affects a lot more than rookie draft picks, too. Bad sign, in my opinion.

 

[Tibereas]

The roster size and taxi should NOT change until the the next year where everyone has all their picks. So if people have traded 2015 picks, nothing should change till 2016 at the earliest.

Making rule change is fine as long as people.aren't getting an unfair advantage. This would be unfair to people who have already traded picks.

At least. Jumping from 22 to 27+ affects a lot more than rookie draft picks, too. Bad sign, in my opinion.

Well thankfully the commish ruled only a 2 spot increase in 2015 and see what happens after that. I think it still makes the teams that hoarded 2015 picks get an advantage but not worth quittting the league over.

I had a lengthy debate with an owner about this being unfair and his response was that it shouldnt make a difference. Do you think rookie picks in the 2nd and 3rd round have more value with a 27 man roster then a 22 man roster? My answer was yes because you could actually keep them on your roster and let them develop with a 25-27 man roster. With a 22 man roster I almost think these picks are throw aways. His thoughts where that value stays the same regardless of roster size.

BTW we start QB-RB-RB-WR-WR-WR-TE-Flex-K-Def so only 12 bench spots.

 

[Concept Coop]

His thoughts where that value stays the same regardless of roster size.

He'll be a basement dweller.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Added a clause for this when I started my own dynasty league:

Anyone may suggest a rule change be brought up for a vote. Changes require eight votes in favor to pass -- though the Commissioner reserves the right to reject any rule proposal that fundamentally alters the structure of the league...

 

[Phenix]

Rules get changed and voted on sometimes, its how it goes. Dont like the league, quit and play elsewhere.

Clearly, that's always an option. So in your mind it's cool to change a league from or too a start 2 QB league from a start 1 or a 1ppr to 1.5 PPR TE league after a league has started. Or from a PPR to a standard scoring league? Guess I was hoping for a little more thought put into the response.

Yes it cools to change things if the leagues votes on it. If the league changes or dont change, quit.

I insisted scoring for QBs in one league change for 4 to 6, people voted it down so I quit.

It works many different ways, if the rules change and you dont like them, quit. If the league doesnt want to change rules and u want a different rule, quit.

More time then not its up to commish to put rules to vote anyways. I always love when people join a league and think they are part commish and the commish just sets up sites. No the commish runs the league and puts things to vote of his choosing, dont like it quit.

See how it works, you dont like something you can quit.

 

[Tibereas]

Rules get changed and voted on sometimes, its how it goes. Dont like the league, quit and play elsewhere.

Clearly, that's always an option. So in your mind it's cool to change a league from or too a start 2 QB league from a start 1 or a 1ppr to 1.5 PPR TE league after a league has started. Or from a PPR to a standard scoring league? Guess I was hoping for a little more thought put into the response.

Yes it cools to change things if the leagues votes on it. If the league changes or dont change, quit.

I insisted scoring for QBs in one league change for 4 to 6, people voted it down so I quit.

It works many different ways, if the rules change and you dont like them, quit. If the league doesnt want to change rules and u want a different rule, quit.

More time then not its up to commish to put rules to vote anyways. I always love when people join a league and think they are part commish and the commish just sets up sites. No the commish runs the league and puts things to vote of his choosing, dont like it quit.

See how it works, you dont like something you can quit.

Thank you for your tremendous imput on quitting, in two seperate posts now. I'm looking for a solution that doesnt involve bailing on a league because I'm not getting my way but thanks anyway.

 

[deputylefty]

Those are some major rule change suggestions. What do the bylaws say about rule changes? I'm assuming either there are no bylaws or the bylaws are silent on this. How about a compromise--increase roster size from 22 to 23 for 2015, from 23 to 25 for 2016, and from 25 to 27 for 2017. Or maybe even more gradual than that. You certainly don't want to disadvantage those who traded 2015 picks based on one set of values, so adding 1 spot in 2015 should minimize that.

Alternatively, you may want to progressively add taxi squad spots--1 spot for 2015, another 1 spot for 2016, and a third spot for 2017. So by the 2017 season, the league will have 27 roster spots and 3 taxi spots.

So no more shenanigans occur, try to get a fail proof bylaws in place before the season starts. You don't want any owners pulling this #### with starting lineup requirements, scoring, etc.

 

[Truman]

Sounds fair so long as any draft picks acquired via trade are forfeited

 

[Phenix]

Rules get changed and voted on sometimes, its how it goes. Dont like the league, quit and play elsewhere.

Clearly, that's always an option. So in your mind it's cool to change a league from or too a start 2 QB league from a start 1 or a 1ppr to 1.5 PPR TE league after a league has started. Or from a PPR to a standard scoring league? Guess I was hoping for a little more thought put into the response.

Yes it cools to change things if the leagues votes on it. If the league changes or dont change, quit.

I insisted scoring for QBs in one league change for 4 to 6, people voted it down so I quit.

It works many different ways, if the rules change and you dont like them, quit. If the league doesnt want to change rules and u want a different rule, quit.

More time then not its up to commish to put rules to vote anyways. I always love when people join a league and think they are part commish and the commish just sets up sites. No the commish runs the league and puts things to vote of his choosing, dont like it quit.

See how it works, you dont like something you can quit.

Thank you for your tremendous imput on quitting, in two seperate posts now. I'm looking for a solution that doesnt involve bailing on a league because I'm not getting my way but thanks anyway.

Well, you are the one who asked me a question in your response. The other option is just be quiet and deal with what comes your way.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm in favor of minor changes that aren't heavily affected by drafting/trades (drop the kicker, realign divisions, starting a bye week player so as not to make a drop, etc) can be decided by simple majority.

I think major changes (like roster spots, scoring, etc) need more than that. I think those should require a 75% vote to pass.

Agreed, but the line between major and minor changes can be blurry.

 

[Adam Harstad]

The general rule in my leagues is that rule changes can be proposed at any time, and if they receive unanimous support, they are implemented immediately (unless the group would rather delay them). Otherwise, they are tabled until the offseason. They are debated and voted on before the rookie draft. If any of them receive supermajority support (6 votes in 10-team leagues, 8 votes in 12-team leagues), then will be phased in starting the following (not current) season. If the rule change is quantifiable, it will be phased in over a 2-year period. For example, if we're transitioning from 1PPR to 1.5PPR for TEs, if the vote passes in 2014, then we'll use 1.25 PPR in 2015 and 1.5PPR in 2016.

It sounds like your commish is following a similar protocol, which is pretty much a best-practice for dynasty leagues. The alternative is just disallowing all changes altogether, because eventually every change will have some sort of disparate impact. Someone will always be getting the short end of the stick. I understand the desire to just say "no changes, ever, period", but if your league is going to be an evolving league, this is exactly the way to do it.

 

[Concept Coop]

It sounds like your commish is following a similar protocol, which is pretty much a best-practice for dynasty leagues.

But once the draft starts, hasn't the season started? At least in terms of rule changes?

 

[Adam Harstad]

It sounds like your commish is following a similar protocol, which is pretty much a best-practice for dynasty leagues.

But once the draft starts, hasn't the season started? At least in terms of rule changes?

Startup years are weird, but I generally consider the beginning of the league year to be the rookie draft. In most seasons, trading is year round, but everything else remains closed until after that (though some do year-round waivers). There's not really much precedent in my experience for changing rules after a startup, but like I said, I consider everything before the rookie draft to be occurring before the official open of business.