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Dynasty Trading 101 (1 Viewer)

squistion

Footballguy
I ran across this a week or two ago on Twitter and thought it summarized my position before I initiate any trade offer:

Ian Kenyon ‏@IanKenyonNFL

Lesson to all sports fans and fantasy owners Trading is accomplished by creating a package that fits the direction and plan of the other guy
A starting point before I make any trade is to see if I have something that the other party would want in return. Looking at their roster, I ask myself, what is it that they really need? If they already own ADP, TRich, Rice, and McCoy, and their best WR is Denarius Moore, then offering them Alf Morris is probably not much of a lure (but a top WR would be).But not everyone follows this approach, as I constantly get trade offers for players of no real use to me given my roster and/or apparent strategy.Any other dos and don'ts you have in basic trading or negotiating?

 
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flc735

Footballguy
I aim to build total team value. I define that as what moves will increase my team value in the following offseason or sooner. That means no Gore, no calvin, no kapernick ect... These guys are not going to gain value any time soon.

Take advantage of needs to do this. Give teams what they need. Take the players they could do without and if I don't like them, Send them off to a team that does.

I'd also make moves like AP for Trent Richardson. Take a small loss now to avoid completely loosing that players value in the future.

I don't like to put myself in a position where I will have to wait on a player for 2-3 years so I usually trade away my picks. I'd rather have an extra spot to play the waiver carousel than wait 2-3 years for Brian Quick to maybe develop.

Picks are also the easiest to trade. Everyone wants picks but not everyone wants that WR2 that you are trying to move.

Once that is done, I will bank the buy lows that I have rostered and use the rest to overpay for the elites. That is when I go after the Calvins, Gronks ect...

For example, I recently gave russel wilson, david wilson, fitz and cobb for trent richardson and aj green.

Rebuild my depth through waivers. Hopefully my lineup is set. If not, this is when I will make a cheap trade for the Reggie Waynes of the world.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
yeah, know who you are trying to deal with. Every owner is different, values things differently, has different strategies. Some do things that make sense, some sure don't.

If you realize a guy doesnt like to trade for 1st rounders, stop offering them to him or you may turn him off to future negotiations.

Some people like to get offers on the site.

SOme like to get emails about ideas you have.

Basically, you are correct MOST of the time by looking at the other team and thinking what they might what and approaching them about it. Many owners though defy all logic and will do something like trade a nice player for Peyton Manning when they already have Drew Brees, and weaken themselves at a different position.

Some guys refuse to trade for any player above age 29 regardless of position (where's Peso, lol). Just know who you are dealing with You can't approach each owner the same.

ANd I just realized this trade from the post above.............."For example, I recently gave russel wilson, david wilson, fitz and cobb for trent richardson and aj green"

Wow that is a horrid deal for the other guy.

 

SSOG

Moderator
Any other dos and don'ts you have in basic trading or negotiating?
Run your team and let the other guy run his. Don't spend 3 paragraphs telling him why this is such a great offer for him. Let him do his own research. Most of all, don't pretend you're doing him any favors. If you're making a trade offer, that means you believe that the guys on his side of the equation are more valuable than the guys on your side of the equation. He's a big boy, you don't need to sugarcoat that. You don't have to editorialize it. Just make your offer and let him decide for himself whether he wants to bet on you being wrong.
 

jsharlan

Footballguy
I have two usual problems that makes trading difficult. One is alot of owners will not consider a trade unless it is absolute trade rape in their favor. People don't think a trade should improve both sides, they want to get something of value while giving up something they don't care about anyway. This is extremely annoying.

The other problem I have is some owners want the exact same thing back you are trying to get from them in the first place. For example if I am weak at RB and trying to trade for a starting RB, I will get told the other owner will only trade Player So and So if they get another starting RB in return. Well I wouldn't be looking for RBs if I had them in the first place!

 

I was in the pool

Footballguy
Any other dos and don'ts you have in basic trading or negotiating?
Run your team and let the other guy run his. Don't spend 3 paragraphs telling him why this is such a great offer for him. Let him do his own research. Most of all, don't pretend you're doing him any favors. If you're making a trade offer, that means you believe that the guys on his side of the equation are more valuable than the guys on your side of the equation. He's a big boy, you don't need to sugarcoat that. You don't have to editorialize it. Just make your offer and let him decide for himself whether he wants to bet on you being wrong.
Great point. It is pretty annoying to get an email with a big description about why you should take the deal like a third graders being hand-held across the street.

 

Instinctive

Footballguy
I think the thing that gets to me most in trade negotiations is not listening to what the other person says. For instance, if I tell you "I drafted Spiller with 1.04 and have sat on him since, I'm not going to move him for less than multiple firsts or another stud skill position player," and then you send me an offer of a 1st and a 3rd, you're an idiot.

Try and guess at what the other guy needs, tell him why you thought that, and ask if that's right or if he wants something else. Just communicate, it isn't that hard.

 

Mimo

Footballguy
If you are offered a deal don't let it sit for days. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea if its a deal you want when you initially see it. If not on the initial look I'm sure it doesn't take 3-4 days to respond.

 

FUBAR

Footballguy
If you are offered a deal don't let it sit for days. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea if its a deal you want when you initially see it. If not on the initial look I'm sure it doesn't take 3-4 days to respond.
I've been guilty if this more than I'd like recently. I will look at an offer but might not evaluate it immediately, then get busy with other things. So the offer stays out there awhile. I'll usually apologize and let the guy know I've been busy. Of course, if the offer is ridiculous i don't feel bad letting it sit.
 

FUBAR

Footballguy
Any other dos and don'ts you have in basic trading or negotiating?
Run your team and let the other guy run his. Don't spend 3 paragraphs telling him why this is such a great offer for him. Let him do his own research. Most of all, don't pretend you're doing him any favors. If you're making a trade offer, that means you believe that the guys on his side of the equation are more valuable than the guys on your side of the equation. He's a big boy, you don't need to sugarcoat that. You don't have to editorialize it. Just make your offer and let him decide for himself whether he wants to bet on you being wrong.
The only thing i do like to see us the other guy's logic. i don't mind seeing him comment "I see you need X" if it makes sense, at least i know he is considering my side. Just don't tell me how great Brady Quinn is and why i should trade a first for him.
 

squistion

Footballguy
If you are offered a deal don't let it sit for days. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea if its a deal you want when you initially see it. If not on the initial look I'm sure it doesn't take 3-4 days to respond.
I have a 48 hour rule. If I make an offer and don't hear back in 2 days (longer on the weekend) I withdraw it. The other side can always resubmit it to me if they thought I was too impatient. I do this because I get very nervous with a trade being open for an extended period of time. The concern being that the player I am trading for might be injured in an auto accident or arrested and the other owner will beat in the race to the league site to accept before I can withdraw the offer.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
If you are offered a deal don't let it sit for days. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea if its a deal you want when you initially see it. If not on the initial look I'm sure it doesn't take 3-4 days to respond.
I have a 48 hour rule. If I make an offer and don't hear back in 2 days (longer on the weekend) I withdraw it. The other side can always resubmit it to me if they thought I was too impatient. I do this because I get very nervous with a trade being open for an extended period of time. The concern being that the player I am trading for might be injured in an auto accident or arrested and the other owner will beat in the race to the league site to accept before I can withdraw the offer.
I have had this happen before. It was a couple years ago, I forget which player, but it was an offseason injury in trainign camp. Not a huge deal, but I was offering something like a 2nd rounder for the guy. The guy gets hurt, and 5 minutes later the guy accepts the offer.................even though it had been sitting there for like 3 days.

And yeah, nothing worse than someone offering you something, then trying to explain to you why you should take it. As soon as that happens, I just reject instantly and tell them to please to waste their time trying to run my team for me.

 

Mario Kart

Footballguy
If you are offered a deal don't let it sit for days. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea if its a deal you want when you initially see it. If not on the initial look I'm sure it doesn't take 3-4 days to respond.
I have a 48 hour rule. If I make an offer and don't hear back in 2 days (longer on the weekend) I withdraw it. The other side can always resubmit it to me if they thought I was too impatient. I do this because I get very nervous with a trade being open for an extended period of time. The concern being that the player I am trading for might be injured in an auto accident or arrested and the other owner will beat in the race to the league site to accept before I can withdraw the offer.
At least on MFL, you don't have to withdraw it. Just set the trade up to "end" after a 48 hour waiting period. Default is 7 days but you can adjust it.

 

coolnerd

Footballguy
In my mind this is a simple one, but if you approach someone about trade talks be specific as quicly as possible. don't ask "what would trade for ---" on multiple guys. if you don't know who you want and what you want to pay for them, don't expect another guy with job, family, other leagues, to stop down his day with multiple e-mail before making a proposal.

 
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Mimo

Footballguy
In my mind this is a simple one, but if you approach someone about trade talks be specific as quicly as possible. don't ask "what would trade for ---" on multiple guys. if you don't know who you want and what you want to pay for them, don't expect another guy with job, family, other leagues, to stop down his day with multiple e-mail before making a proposal.
Totally agree but the way people are on their phones today checking Facebook, twitter, emails etc I'm sure they can press reject in a MFL trade email without interrupting their whole day.
 

coolnerd

Footballguy
In my mind this is a simple one, but if you approach someone about trade talks be specific as quicly as possible. don't ask "what would trade for ---" on multiple guys. if you don't know who you want and what you want to pay for them, don't expect another guy with job, family, other leagues, to stop down his day with multiple e-mail before making a proposal.
Totally agree but the way people are on their phones today checking Facebook, twitter, emails etc I'm sure they can press reject in a MFL trade email without interrupting their whole day.
This really for the guys who like to talk about trades before putting them on MFL. Had one guy ask about 10-12 players (deep IDP) and three e-mails later said I have 1.3.. he expected me to literally go "I think either Ray rice or Larry ftizgerald would someone who i would trade for that pick" Never bothered to make a single suggestion or direct ask on his own accord. he essentially wanted me to do his leg work when he was the one woke up and wanted to trade.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
coolnerd said:
Mimo said:
coolnerd said:
In my mind this is a simple one, but if you approach someone about trade talks be specific as quicly as possible. don't ask "what would trade for ---" on multiple guys. if you don't know who you want and what you want to pay for them, don't expect another guy with job, family, other leagues, to stop down his day with multiple e-mail before making a proposal.
Totally agree but the way people are on their phones today checking Facebook, twitter, emails etc I'm sure they can press reject in a MFL trade email without interrupting their whole day.
This really for the guys who like to talk about trades before putting them on MFL. Had one guy ask about 10-12 players (deep IDP) and three e-mails later said I have 1.3.. he expected me to literally go "I think either Ray rice or Larry ftizgerald would someone who i would trade for that pick" Never bothered to make a single suggestion or direct ask on his own accord. he essentially wanted me to do his leg work when he was the one woke up and wanted to trade.
I would agree. If you are going to approach someone about a trade or an idea, you should be the one making the first offer. Not expecting the other guy to do it for you.

I will send out a general email to someone asking what they want for a guy, but I don't expect them to just start sending me offers, but instead to tell me something they might be interested in.

 

Lab

Footballguy
Lots of good advice here. One negotiation concept I consider really important is the idea of "trading for unequal value." What this mean is to look for things that each side values differently, and then trade for those things. Who's more accurate in his valuation? I have no idea, and it doesn't matter. The key to maximizing trade value is to pair up the different viewpoints.

For example, if your trade partner really only likes young prospects (e.g., Denarius Moore), and you prefer older players with proven track records (e.g., Steve Smith), then you should trade You'll both be happier after the exchange, even though those two WRs are of roughly equal value in most rank lists I've seen.

Another place this works is trading draft picks. I find that most people do not value future draft picks very highly (2014 or 2015 picks, when we are coming up on the 2013 season). But most people value current draft picks (2013) very highly. So as long as my team is strong (meaning I don't desperately need anyone in the current draft), I'm always looking to trade for the future draft picks (buy low), and trade away the current draft picks (sell high). The reason this works is because I've identified a situation where the value I put on the draft picks is unequal to the value some other people put on the same draft picks. So when we trade, both sides believe they gain more value.

The converse is true too: Don't waste time trading for equal value. If you have a clear RB2 (Chris Johnson), don't waste time trying to convince someone to make an even swap for a clear RB1 (LeSean McCoy). You will both end up frustrated.

One very obvious way to play this strategy is to look for teams that are desperate (e.g., Team X really needs a QB1 or QB2), and try to take advantage of that desperation. But that rarely works because you're usually competing with 5-6 other teams also trying to take advantage, so Team X can usually play you against one another to get a reasonable deal.

It works best if you can identify a value differential that not many other people can spot. That requires lots of communication.

I hope this helps.

 

ShaHBucks

Footballguy
I get a lot of trades done. The best advise I can give is to figure out how you can actually help both teams. Think of how smooth negotiations can go if all you're trying to do is help the other party.

Know talent. You have to know when a CJ. Spiller is being held hostage or Torry Smith isn't being used properly. On the other hand know that Tebow isn't a NFL starting qb ect... In turn you can never lose a trade if you're getting the better talent (relative statement). This all goes hand-and-hand with buy-low/sell-high if you're looking for targets.

 

Shutout

Footballguy
Any other dos and don'ts you have in basic trading or negotiating?
Run your team and let the other guy run his. Don't spend 3 paragraphs telling him why this is such a great offer for him. Let him do his own research. Most of all, don't pretend you're doing him any favors. If you're making a trade offer, that means you believe that the guys on his side of the equation are more valuable than the guys on your side of the equation. He's a big boy, you don't need to sugarcoat that. You don't have to editorialize it. Just make your offer and let him decide for himself whether he wants to bet on you being wrong.
I agree with this idea but would modify the statement a bit. All trades don't have to be right or wrong with a clear "winner" or end with someone betting the other person is wrong.I've always thought the best trades are the ones that leave both sides feeling a little uneasy (in terms of each person feeling like they probably would have liked to give a little less). If you do that then you know you got something (because you agreed to the trade) and you gave up something (because of how you feel). If you approach trades like that and don't insult people with an essay of why they should do the trade then you basically are doing all the things people have listed here. You are considering what works for both, not just one and that is always the key to getting something done.
 

DropKick

Footballguy
First of all, I always make a legitimate offer - something I really believe helps both teams. Also, since I'm targeting someone I really want, I'm not afraid to "overpay". For example, I may swap an "8" and a "7" for a "9". Most people think I've paid tooo much but I'm content with the best player in the deal. I trust in my own ability to turn that "extra" roster spot into a decent player through the draft or free agency,

 

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