Ebola (2 Viewers)

[TheIronSheik]

So the second health-care worker flew to Cleveland on the 10th, and flew back to Dallas on the 13th. I'm shocked at how ridiculous this is.

It boggles my mind that you are allowed to hop on a plane after treating someone with Ebola. It's like a comedy of errors.

 

[Doug B]

So the second health-care worker flew to Cleveland on the 10th, and flew back to Dallas on the 13th. I'm shocked at how ridiculous this is.

This will be a potentially unfortunate -- yet fortuitous -- test case. Whether someone else on the plane contracts Ebola or not ... the result wither way will be meaningful.

 

[B-Deep]

I've played plague inc, i know how this ends

 

[Cliff Clavin]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Don't worry everything is going to be alright....

You're going to have to stop licking elevator buttons and door knobs in Cleveland now.

 

[Doug B]

It boggles my mind that you are allowed to hop on a plane after treating someone with Ebola. It's like a comedy of errors.

Well, such restrictions aren't in place yet.

That said, until recently, someone who has completed proper back-out protocols is considered to be ebola-free right then and there. Now maybe something is wrong with the protocols, and maybe something is wrong with the execution of those protocols. Assuredly, as these folks learn on the fly (for better or worse), the whole process will get tighter and more effective.

...

I am concerned about the number of health professionals that laugh off being ready to handle ebola. At least be willing to make an effort. Ebola is not friggin' magic ... and yet you have people with walls full of diplomas treating it like it is.

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

 

[glock]

Scarier than Ebola...

 

[timschochet]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

Ebola is either the Tea party's fault, or Obama's. I can't figure out which. Hopefully you can help me figure it out.

neither. Stupid to politicize it. And it's certainly not Bush's fault: during his second term he tripled spending on the CDC and NIH. But it's worth noting that those of us concerned about the sequester cuts, while not focused on Ebola, did discuss at the time that there would be many negative results which we couldn't predict then. I was openly mocked in this forum by many conservatives, led by Joe T.

 

[cosjobs]

Just heard that Mark Zuckerberg is giving 25 million to the CDC to help them fight this.

I posted upthread that the Gates Foundation did the same.

Shark move for Zuckerberg would have been to donate 25,000,001.

 

[Jobber]

So the second health-care worker flew to Cleveland on the 10th, and flew back to Dallas on the 13th. I'm shocked at how ridiculous this is.

This will be a potentially unfortunate -- yet fortuitous -- test case. Whether someone else on the plane contracts Ebola or not ... the result wither way will be meaningful.

Absolutely, this is the one to watch. I really hope nobody falls ill. It'll set my mind at ease quite a bit if you can fly with the infected and be ok.

 

[TheIronSheik]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

I don't know. What have they done with the billions more in spending they've been receiving since Bush dramatically increased funding in 2004?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/10/15/the-absurd-claim-that-only-republicans-are-to-blame-for-cuts-to-ebola-research/

 

[Parrothead]

que the Cleveland ER panics..

 

[Doug B]

Absolutely, this is the one to watch. I really hope nobody falls ill. It'll set my mind at ease quite a bit if you can fly with the infected and be ok.

Keep in mind, too, that people were flying to the States from Belgium with Duncan. No ebola cases from that flight but Duncan.

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

 

[jamny]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

Ebola is either the Tea party's fault, or Obama's. I can't figure out which. Hopefully you can help me figure it out.

neither. Stupid to politicize it. And it's certainly not Bush's fault: during his second term he tripled spending on the CDC and NIH. But it's worth noting that those of us concerned about the sequester cuts, while not focused on Ebola, did discuss at the time that there would be many negative results which we couldn't predict then. I was openly mocked in this forum by many conservatives, led by Joe T.

I love how you regularly criticize the politicization of certain things but are usually among the first to do so.

 

[culdeus]

que the Cleveland ER panics..

I refuse to believe anyone flys to cleveland with the intention of staying there.

 

[lod01]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

what we could use is more common cents

I've got jars of common cents. I'll sell them at the rate of 2 cents per cent.

 

[Parrothead]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

 

[lod01]

The govt's comedy of errors from this non airborne killer confirms that an airborne killer wipes most people within the first few weeks. I'll survive in my bunker.

 

[timschochet]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

I don't know. What have they done with the billions more in spending they've been receiving since Bush dramatically increased funding in 2004?http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/10/15/the-absurd-claim-that-only-republicans-are-to-blame-for-cuts-to-ebola-research/

according to Francis Collins they're using that money to come up with an Ebola vaccine among other things, but they were hampered by the sequester. Bush deserves great credit for that spending as well as all the money he spent combatting aids in Africa. Unfortunately the Republicans of our current decade, influenced by the Tea Party, have attempted to strongly reduce or eliminate federal spending in these areas. That is a fact and it's not partisan to point it out.

 

[shader]

Ebola isn't going to spread all over the plane. It's not going to spread to 20 or 30 people. It's just not that contagious.

But if you wonder why Nigeria was able to stamp out Ebola pretty quick, it's because they didn't allow their nurses to leave the area and go to other parts of Nigeria when they got off work.

The average infection rate is somewhere around 2. Meaning each person infects 2 others. So far in the US, although it's really early, the original guy infected 2 people. If it holds, these two nurses will infect 2 a piece and 4 more will get infected. You can see how this can quickly get out of hand in a modern society where people fly and travel around the country.

But it's easily stamped out if they just quarantine people as they did in Nigeria. But will they? I don't know.

I'm ten times more worried about Sierre Leone and Liberia than I am about the US. But the US is so far getting an F for the way this has been handled, which frankly, shocks me, and is a bit concerning for the future, if this becomes an outbreak.

The good news is that this can possibly be a learning experience and hospitals can quickly react to this first failed case, and some standards and protocols can be quickly implemented.

 

[TheIronSheik]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Exactly. People may not realize they are sick right away. It's not like the moment your temperature goes to 98.7 you think to yourself, "Uh oh. I'm starting to get sick."

 

[Sinn Fein]

We should learn from the Malaysians - they had a case of suspected Ebola on one of their flights, and they sank the entire plane in the middle of the ####### ocean. Have you heard of any Ebola cases in Malaysia since then?

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Of course we aren't sure.

But to my (admittedly limited and non-professional) knowledge, at the onset you are the least contagious. It's when you are puking/diarrhea'ing/sweating from fever that you are highly contagious.

And even then you'd have to come into contact with a fluid, then bring that fluid to your mouth/eyes or have an open cut that it contacts.

I'd wager most of these nurses infected took their gloves off wrong, touched the sweat with their hand then rubbed their eyes as I'm sure they are overtired.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Absolutely, this is the one to watch. I really hope nobody falls ill. It'll set my mind at ease quite a bit if you can fly with the infected and be ok.

Keep in mind, too, that people were flying to the States from Belgium with Duncan. No ebola cases from that flight but Duncan.

Difference there was that he got sick like 5 days later. She got sick less than 24 hours later.

 

[lod01]

If Ebola can cause the stock market to take a huge #### down about 20% from here then it's all worth it! Looks like this and falling oil prices could trigger quite a lovely drop.

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Exactly. People may not realize they are sick right away. It's not like the moment your temperature goes to 98.7 you think to yourself, "Uh oh. I'm starting to get sick."

I understand your point, I guess I was under the impression at the onset you aren't very contagious. The worse the symptoms, the higher the contagion.

 

[shader]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

The Ebola virus was in her body. It's the height of arrogance to boldly assert that she was absolutely not contagious. I agree that the risk is minimal, but lets not make bold statements in grey areas.

 

[TheIronSheik]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Of course we aren't sure.

But to my (admittedly limited and non-professional) knowledge, at the onset you are the least contagious. It's when you are puking/diarrhea'ing/sweating from fever that you are highly contagious.

And even then you'd have to come into contact with a fluid, then bring that fluid to your mouth/eyes or have an open cut that it contacts.

I'd wager most of these nurses infected took their gloves off wrong, touched the sweat with their hand then rubbed their eyes as I'm sure they are overtired.

So if she coughs/sneezes into her hand, and then puts her hand on the walking sidewalk hand rail. How many people do you think could touch that and then rub their own eyes?

I mean, you do realize this is how almost every other cold/flu bug works, right?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

I don't know. What have they done with the billions more in spending they've been receiving since Bush dramatically increased funding in 2004?http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/10/15/the-absurd-claim-that-only-republicans-are-to-blame-for-cuts-to-ebola-research/

according to Francis Collins they're using that money to come up with an Ebola vaccine among other things, but they were hampered by the sequester. Bush deserves great credit for that spending as well as all the money he spent combatting aids in Africa. Unfortunately the Republicans of our current decade, influenced by the Tea Party, have attempted to strongly reduce or eliminate federal spending in these areas. That is a fact and it's not partisan to point it out.

They're using all $4B to develop an Ebola vaccine? That's impressive.

You didn't even read the article, did you? Your comments on the Tea Party are partisan and ridiculous in the face of the multitude of facts in the linked article.

 

[TheIronSheik]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Exactly. People may not realize they are sick right away. It's not like the moment your temperature goes to 98.7 you think to yourself, "Uh oh. I'm starting to get sick."

I understand your point, I guess I was under the impression at the onset you aren't very contagious. The worse the symptoms, the higher the contagion.

That's cool. And to be fair, GB, I'm not in here trying to spread fear. I'm not being that guy. Am I worried we could see Ebola in the US? Hell yeah. Do I think it's going to wipe us all out? Not a chance. But it still enough to worry me.

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Of course we aren't sure.

But to my (admittedly limited and non-professional) knowledge, at the onset you are the least contagious. It's when you are puking/diarrhea'ing/sweating from fever that you are highly contagious.

And even then you'd have to come into contact with a fluid, then bring that fluid to your mouth/eyes or have an open cut that it contacts.

I'd wager most of these nurses infected took their gloves off wrong, touched the sweat with their hand then rubbed their eyes as I'm sure they are overtired.

So if she coughs/sneezes into her hand, and then puts her hand on the walking sidewalk hand rail. How many people do you think could touch that and then rub their own eyes?

I mean, you do realize this is how almost every other cold/flu bug works, right?

But Ebola is nowhere near as contagious as every other cold/flu bug, you realize this right?

 

[Doug B]

Difference there was that he got sick like 5 days later. She got sick less than 24 hours later.

OK, but even if she had a low fever (an I-didn't-know fever) on the flight ... I contend that anyone not in contact with her body fluids is totally in the clear, without reservation.

Worst case (barely plausible, but possible) is if perhaps she sneezed in someone's face on the flight.

 

[boots11234]

One confirmed case in an elementary school will set the panic in high gear.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I can't believe the Ebola thread has turned political.

 

[shader]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Of course we aren't sure.

But to my (admittedly limited and non-professional) knowledge, at the onset you are the least contagious. It's when you are puking/diarrhea'ing/sweating from fever that you are highly contagious.

And even then you'd have to come into contact with a fluid, then bring that fluid to your mouth/eyes or have an open cut that it contacts.

I'd wager most of these nurses infected took their gloves off wrong, touched the sweat with their hand then rubbed their eyes as I'm sure they are overtired.

So if she coughs/sneezes into her hand, and then puts her hand on the walking sidewalk hand rail. How many people do you think could touch that and then rub their own eyes?

I mean, you do realize this is how almost every other cold/flu bug works, right?

But not ebola. You apparently have to drink the bodily fluids of an ebola patient to get it.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Difference there was that he got sick like 5 days later. She got sick less than 24 hours later.

OK, but even if she had a low fever (an I-didn't-know fever) on the flight ... I contend that anyone not in contact with her body fluids is totally in the clear, without reservation.

Worst case (barely plausible, but possible) is if perhaps she sneezed in someone's face on the flight.

Sure. Again, I'm not saying everyone (or anyone) on that flight is doomed. I was just saying that these two incidents are different, GB.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Anyone here mention that the sequester required the CDC to cut 285 million in spending? Think they could use that money?

Ebola is either the Tea party's fault, or Obama's. I can't figure out which. Hopefully you can help me figure it out.

neither. Stupid to politicize it. And it's certainly not Bush's fault: during his second term he tripled spending on the CDC and NIH. But it's worth noting that those of us concerned about the sequester cuts, while not focused on Ebola, did discuss at the time that there would be many negative results which we couldn't predict then. I was openly mocked in this forum by many conservatives, led by Joe T.

so if it is contained as everyone says its going to be in the government can we cut more money from them?

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Exactly. People may not realize they are sick right away. It's not like the moment your temperature goes to 98.7 you think to yourself, "Uh oh. I'm starting to get sick."

I understand your point, I guess I was under the impression at the onset you aren't very contagious. The worse the symptoms, the higher the contagion.

That's cool. And to be fair, GB, I'm not in here trying to spread fear. I'm not being that guy. Am I worried we could see Ebola in the US? Hell yeah. Do I think it's going to wipe us all out? Not a chance. But it still enough to worry me.

That was probably overly harsh on my part.

I just don't think it's time to panic.

Do I think hospitals need to be better funded and have in place better protocols? You bet your ###.

I just don't believe this virus is as contagious as some people seem to think these cases prove.

 

[lod01]

I can't believe the Ebola thread has turned political.

Bastards are going to take all the fun out of this thread.

 

[boots11234]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

I guess the post where I was laughed at about wearing a mask at the airport isn't so funny now...

 

[Harry Manback]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

Were they symptomatic?

No?

Oh, ok, feel free to wildly spread fear though.

Not sure your point. She reported being sick the next day. It wasn't like it was a week later. It was just a couple of hours.

You aren't contagious until you become symptomatic. The worse the symptoms the higher level of contagious.

If she didn't have a fever on the flight, no one on that flight is at risk.

I agree, but are we sure about this? was her temperature taken?

Of course we aren't sure.

But to my (admittedly limited and non-professional) knowledge, at the onset you are the least contagious. It's when you are puking/diarrhea'ing/sweating from fever that you are highly contagious.

And even then you'd have to come into contact with a fluid, then bring that fluid to your mouth/eyes or have an open cut that it contacts.

I'd wager most of these nurses infected took their gloves off wrong, touched the sweat with their hand then rubbed their eyes as I'm sure they are overtired.

So if she coughs/sneezes into her hand, and then puts her hand on the walking sidewalk hand rail. How many people do you think could touch that and then rub their own eyes?

I mean, you do realize this is how almost every other cold/flu bug works, right?

But not ebola. You apparently have to drink the bodily fluids of an ebola patient to get it.

Or rub it in your eyes, or get it in an open wound, or bite your nail that has some on it.

But feel free to spout hyperbole and generalizations to try and prove something to someone.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I can't believe the Ebola thread has turned political.

Really? There are fewer things more certain in life than a serious thread turning political.

Pretty sure there will be religious overtones before long

 

[Doug B]

Exactly. People may not realize they are sick right away. It's not like the moment your temperature goes to 98.7 you think to yourself, "Uh oh. I'm starting to get sick."

Yes, but the ebolavirus needs to be "carried" out the body -- namely by body fluids.

If the second infected nurse were coughing and sneezing all flight long (and she may have been, not yet known), that would be a much bigger issue. From what we know now, she was externally asymptomatic on the flight (allowing for the very beginnings of a fever to have been present).

 

[Harry Manback]

Exactly. People may not realize they are sick right away. It's not like the moment your temperature goes to 98.7 you think to yourself, "Uh oh. I'm starting to get sick."

Yes, but the ebolavirus needs to be "carried" out the body -- namely by body fluids.

If the second infected nurse were coughing and sneezing all flight long (and she may have been, not yet known), that would be a much bigger issue. From what we know now, she was externally asymptomatic on the flight (allowing for the very beginnings of a fever to have been present).

THANK YOU

 

[jamny]

2nd person that was infected took a flight between working on Ebola patient and being diagnosed.

I guess the post where I was laughed at about wearing a mask at the airport isn't so funny now...

Still funny.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I can't believe the Ebola thread has turned political.

Really? There are fewer things more certain in life than a serious thread turning political.

Pretty sure there will be religious overtones before long

I shouldn't say I was surprised, I guess. I mean I know they all eventually turn into them. I just didn't think it would happen at the height of the outbreak in the US. And I use the word outbreak jokingly.

 

[[icon]]

Infected person on plane wipes nose or sneezes into hand, then uses hand rail or other common contact point to enter/exit plane. Many people use hand rails, backs of seats, edges of overhead storage as hand rests while walking down aisles.

That virus will exist there for several hours at the least. Anyone coming in contact with it will be exposed on their hands. Now it's just a matter of how many people will somehow transmit that virus on their hands into their mouth (eating), eyes (Rubbing eyes due to fatigue), etc...

Certainly not an OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE moment... but I think some folks might be underestimating the number of common daily occurrences will transmit this virus. It's quite preventable by exercising good hygiene (washing hands, etc) and other measures... but attempting to say it's "no big deal" will encourage folks to perhaps not exercise those precautions.

 

[Doug B]

I'm ten times more worried about Sierre Leone and Liberia than I am about the US. But the US is so far getting an F for the way this has been handled, which frankly, shocks me, and is a bit concerning for the future, if this becomes an outbreak.

The good news is that this can possibly be a learning experience and hospitals can quickly react to this first failed case, and some standards and protocols can be quickly implemented.

Well, this is exactly how it will all play out. IMHO, the reason two nurses got infected by Duncan is not because the U.S. healthcare system is not "good enough" to handle ebola. It was that these specific people on the front lines either unittingly broke protocol or were using compromised equipment (e.g. goggles and respirators take some experience to self-fit safely).

It's not like the same mistakes will keep being made forever more and no one will learn anything more about what to do with ebola.