Ebola (3 Viewers)

[shader]

Clearly the Dallas hospital wasn't well equipped to handle their first case. Duncan should have been sent to a facility better equipped. In any case, they will implement new protocols such as the buddy system and that will be that.

You guys are acting like we have never seen infectious diseases before. Tens of thousands of Americans die from infectious diseases a year, but for some reason you all like to panic over one death with Ebola.

These kinds of posts are getting more and more annoying.

As are most posts which bring reality to situations.

 

[Bojang0301]

What the #### was this woman thinking? I don't even think a major death close in the family would justify the risk she just put everyone at. How the hell does she fly a week later?

 

[Doug B]

It boggles my mind that you are allowed to hop on a plane after treating someone with Ebola. It's like a comedy of errors.

Well, such restrictions aren't in place yet.

That said, until recently, someone who has completed proper back-out protocols is considered to be ebola-free right then and there. Now maybe something is wrong with the protocols, and maybe something is wrong with the execution of those protocols. Assuredly, as these folks learn on the fly (for better or worse), the whole process will get tighter and more effective..

Complete lack of protocols shouldn't have been a problem, but (from Sheik's link in post # 1591):

'PILED TO THE CEILING'

Basic principles of infection control were violated by both the [Texas Health Presbyterian] hospital's Infectious Disease Department and CDC officials, the nurses said, with no one picking up hazardous waste "as it piled to the ceiling."

"The nurses strongly feel unsupported, unprepared, lied to, and deserted to handle the situation on their own," the statement said.

The hospital said in a statement it had instituted measures to create a safe working environment and it was reviewing and responding to the nurses' criticisms.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

So the second Dallas healthcare worker was on

a flight the day before her symptoms started.

Yep, nothing to see here

 

[shader]

It boggles my mind that you are allowed to hop on a plane after treating someone with Ebola. It's like a comedy of errors.

Well, such restrictions aren't in place yet.

That said, until recently, someone who has completed proper back-out protocols is considered to be ebola-free right then and there. Now maybe something is wrong with the protocols, and maybe something is wrong with the execution of those protocols. Assuredly, as these folks learn on the fly (for better or worse), the whole process will get tighter and more effective..

Complete lack of protocols shouldn't have been a problem, but:

'PILED TO THE CEILING'

Basic principles of infection control were violated by both the [Texas Health Presbyterian] hospital's Infectious Disease Department and CDC officials, the nurses said, with no one picking up hazardous waste "as it piled to the ceiling."

"The nurses strongly feel unsupported, unprepared, lied to, and deserted to handle the situation on their own," the statement said.

The hospital said in a statement it had instituted measures to create a safe working environment and it was reviewing and responding to the nurses' criticisms.

I saw that earlier. They need to identify 4-5 hospitals in the US that are equipped to deal with Ebola, and ship any ebola patient there ASAP. The average hospital is just not equipped to deal with Ebola, as the hospital in Dallas has shown.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Man that hospital Texas Health Presbyterian has got to be losing money by the truck load. No one would come to that hospital for anything elective, and even if it was emergent I would want to go to another hospital. I work in a hospital and all we do is talk about how ####### hard it would be to contain. Most people including doctors that I work with have said they would flat refuse to take care of a patient if they knew the patient had ebola. Not worth the risk most say.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Man that hospital Texas Health Presbyterian has got to be losing money by the truck load. No one would come to that hospital for anything elective, and even if it was emergent I would want to go to another hospital. I work in a hospital and all we do is talk about how ####### hard it would be to contain. Most people including doctors that I work with have said they would flat refuse to take care of a patient if they knew the patient had ebola. Not worth the risk most say.

Odd question, but I didn't think doctors could refuse service. Or am I thinking of Taco Bell?

 

[Doug B]

They need to identify 4-5 hospitals in the US that are equipped to deal with Ebola, and ship any ebola patient there ASAP. The average hospital is just not equipped to deal with Ebola, as the hospital in Dallas has shown.

This is a good start. But I also think that the average major metro healthcare centers actually need to be brought up in their ability to deal with ebola and other high-level pathogens. When the ebola vaccine is released and approved (I am a hopeful sort), the game will be changed enough so that more hospitals can play a part in reining this thing in.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Man that hospital Texas Health Presbyterian has got to be losing money by the truck load. No one would come to that hospital for anything elective, and even if it was emergent I would want to go to another hospital. I work in a hospital and all we do is talk about how ####### hard it would be to contain. Most people including doctors that I work with have said they would flat refuse to take care of a patient if they knew the patient had ebola. Not worth the risk most say.

Odd question, but I didn't think doctors could refuse service. Or am I thinking of Taco Bell?

Must be taco bell Yeah they can refuse. May get a suspended license, but they can refuse (this would take a long time and a board of peers would have to make this happen). A hospital could revoke their privileges, but hell most doctors wouldn't give 2 ####s if that happened. They just move their practice to XYZ hospital. Everyone has the right to refuse if they feel as if they are in danger, not adequately protected and placed in a situation where they are a danger to themselves or the patient.

 

[ArbyMelt]

So the second Dallas healthcare worker was on

a flight the day before her symptoms started.

Yep, nothing to see here

“Although she (Vinson) did not report any symptoms and she did not meet the fever threshold of 100.4, she did report at that time she took her temperature and found it to be 99.5,” said CDC Director Tom Frieden. Her temperature coupled with the fact that she had been exposed to the virus should have prevented her from getting on the plane, he said. “I don’t think that changes the level of risk of people around her. She did not vomit, she was not bleeding, so the level of risk of people around her would be extremely low.”

 

[TheIronSheik]

Man that hospital Texas Health Presbyterian has got to be losing money by the truck load. No one would come to that hospital for anything elective, and even if it was emergent I would want to go to another hospital. I work in a hospital and all we do is talk about how ####### hard it would be to contain. Most people including doctors that I work with have said they would flat refuse to take care of a patient if they knew the patient had ebola. Not worth the risk most say.

Odd question, but I didn't think doctors could refuse service. Or am I thinking of Taco Bell?

Must be taco bell Yeah they can refuse. May get a suspended license, but they can refuse (this would take a long time and a board of peers would have to make this happen). A hospital could revoke their privileges, but hell most doctors wouldn't give 2 ####s if that happened. They just move their practice to XYZ hospital. Everyone has the right to refuse if they feel as if they are in danger, not adequately protected and placed in a situation where they are a danger to themselves or the patient.

Hmm... I did not know that. Now I'm hungry for some Taco Bell though.

 

[squistion]

Man that hospital Texas Health Presbyterian has got to be losing money by the truck load. No one would come to that hospital for anything elective, and even if it was emergent I would want to go to another hospital. I work in a hospital and all we do is talk about how ####### hard it would be to contain. Most people including doctors that I work with have said they would flat refuse to take care of a patient if they knew the patient had ebola. Not worth the risk most say.

Then perhaps they shouldn't be doctors. Reminds of the early 80s where some doctors, nurses, and paramedics would not treat someone they thought had AIDS, which is not close to being as infectious as Ebola, but at that time (before the AIDS virus was identified in 1985) no one knew for sure how it was transmitted and airborne transmission was a considered a possibility.

 

[The Commish]

They need to identify 4-5 hospitals in the US that are equipped to deal with Ebola, and ship any ebola patient there ASAP. The average hospital is just not equipped to deal with Ebola, as the hospital in Dallas has shown.

This is a good start. But I also think that the average major metro healthcare centers actually need to be brought up in their ability to deal with ebola and other high-level pathogens. When the ebola vaccine is released and approved (I am a hopeful sort), the game will be changed enough so that more hospitals can play a part in reining this thing in.

Could also build Ebola isolation centers outside the major cities. Seems like something the Army Reserves could easily accomplish with their large field hospital set ups. Again, no reason to panic, just fall on the side of being overly cautious. At some point, it isn't feasible to ship them from one place to another. Doesn't make sense.

 

[TheIronSheik]

So the second Dallas healthcare worker was on

a flight the day before her symptoms started.

Yep, nothing to see here

“Although she (Vinson) did not report any symptoms and she did not meet the fever threshold of 100.4, she did report at that time she took her temperature and found it to be 99.5,” said CDC Director Tom Frieden. Her temperature coupled with the fact that she had been exposed to the virus should have prevented her from getting on the plane, he said. “I don’t think that changes the level of risk of people around her. She did not vomit, she was not bleeding, so the level of risk of people around her would be extremely low.”

She sounds like a trustworthy person who wouldn't lie. I guess I'll take her word for it.

 

[fantasycurse42]

So the second Dallas healthcare worker was on

a flight the day before her symptoms started.

Yep, nothing to see here

“Although she (Vinson) did not report any symptoms and she did not meet the fever threshold of 100.4, she did report at that time she took her temperature and found it to be 99.5,” said CDC Director Tom Frieden. Her temperature coupled with the fact that she had been exposed to the virus should have prevented her from getting on the plane, he said. “I don’t think that changes the level of risk of people around her. She did not vomit, she was not bleeding, so the level of risk of people around her would be extremely low.”

I thought they said the same thing about the healthcare professionals treating this too

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

If we really want to stop this and minimize future spreading we should just kill the people that have it instead of treating them.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If we really want to stop this and minimize future spreading we should just kill the people that have it instead of treating them.

Or we could just isolate anyone in danger of the disease and shut our doors to the few countries (who have little economic impact on us anyways) where this is spreading.

 

[Doug B]

Could also build Ebola isolation centers outside the major cities. Seems like something the Army Reserves could easily accomplish with their large field hospital set ups.

Like your thinking here. Not too different from the way field hospitals had been set up in Zaire, Nigeria, etc. to deal with past Ebola outbreaks.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Hey Billy your reserve unit just got called up to set up Ebola treatment centers. I am going to need you to fill out these forms for Wal Mart to show you will be gone for awhile. Hey, good luck out there.

Reserves. F THAT! No one wants those people in charge of anything.

 

[Fennis]

BBC breaking News

Second healthcare worker positive for Ebola

"Both health workers treated Liberian man Thomas Eric Duncan, who died last week after becoming the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the US.

A senior Dallas official said there was a "real possibility" of further cases, and contingencies were being prepared."

I guess it takes a long time for news to reach the other side of the globe these days.

Poor icon cant win. He posts rumors from right wing conspiracy sites and we #####. So he goes the other way and posts information from main stream sources and we #####.

 

[El Floppo]

dammit.

on the subway taking the kid to school this morning, I'd swear every single person on the packed train was from west africa, sweating, spitting and puking profusely. Imma start wrapping floppinho up in the duct tape I have left over from when we almost got wiped out by anthrax.

 

[Doug B]

... so the level of risk of people around her would be extremely low.”

I thought they said the same thing about the healthcare professionals treating this too

No way, huh?

 

[Fennis]

Clearly the Dallas hospital wasn't well equipped to handle their first case. Duncan should have been sent to a facility better equipped. In any case, they will implement new protocols such as the buddy system and that will be that.

You guys are acting like we have never seen infectious diseases before. Tens of thousands of Americans die from infectious diseases a year, but for some reason you all like to panic over one death with Ebola.

These kinds of posts are getting more and more annoying.

As are most posts which bring reality to situations.

Yeah I have no idea how valid it is. If true it's remarkably dumb and the janitor is likely going to get ebola.

update?

 

[Doug B]

If we really want to stop this and minimize future spreading we should just kill the people that have it instead of treating them.

In Africa, many patients caught ebola (mis)handling corpses. Unless you can incinerate the body where they lay, this is a non-satrter.

 

[Bojang0301]

If we really want to stop this and minimize future spreading we should just kill the people that have it instead of treating them.

Or we could just isolate anyone in danger of the disease and shut our doors to the few countries (who have little economic impact on us anyways) where this is spreading.

Nope, bring over the Americans getting sick over there is best plan. Obviously.

 

[Fennis]

In America, you handle corpse. In Soviet Africa, corpse handles you.

 

[Doug B]

Reserves. F THAT! No one wants those people in charge of anything.

They can set up buildings in the field, yes? No way any non-medical reservists would be involved beyond that. Maybe transporting bodies after intensive training.

 

[The Commish]

Hey Billy your reserve unit just got called up to set up Ebola treatment centers. I am going to need you to fill out these forms for Wal Mart to show you will be gone for awhile. Hey, good luck out there.

Reserves. F THAT! No one wants those people in charge of anything.

Think you are missing out on who does what here. Reservists set up / build these areas. Doctors work in them.

 

[TheIronSheik]

If we really want to stop this and minimize future spreading we should just kill the people that have it instead of treating them.

Or we could just isolate anyone in danger of the disease and shut our doors to the few countries (who have little economic impact on us anyways) where this is spreading.

Nope, bring over the Americans getting sick over there is best plan. Obviously.

Reminds me of Hawaii.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Do these nurses have access to the Internet? Maybe its just me, but I would give the ole CDC website a look see if I was caring for someone with mother####ing Ebola. Instead of relying on marge, the floor nurse, from bum#### west Texas for my infectious deasease protocol.. Call me crazy.

 

[Fennis]

Do these nurses have access to the Internet? Maybe its just me, but I would give the ole CDC website a look see if I was caring for someone with mother####ing Ebola. Instead of relying on marge, the floor nurse, from bum#### west Texas for my infectious deasease protocol.. Call me crazy.

to be fair to the hospital

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-15/ebola-new-infection-at-dallas-hospital-puts-focus-on-health-workers

The CDC is also planning to send officials to any U.S. hospital at which an Ebola patient arrives within hours after a diagnosis is confirmed. “I wish we had put a team like this on the ground the day the first patient was diagnosed,” Frieden told reporters on Tuesday. “That might have prevented this infection,” he said, referring to Pham’s diagnosis. “But we will do that from today onward with any case, anywhere in the U.S.”

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Do these nurses have access to the Internet? Maybe its just me, but I would give the ole CDC website a look see if I was caring for someone with mother####ing Ebola. Instead of relying on marge, the floor nurse, from bum#### west Texas for my infectious deasease protocol.. Call me crazy.

Yeah, the CDC I would trust them.

Didn't the CDC blame the nurse for contracting Ebola?

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

 

[Fennis]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

its very clear she wasn't properly trained.

She shared bodily fluids with him.

 

[T Bell]

So two healthcare workers have it, yet Duncan's family--who spent DAYS in an apartment with him while he was sick--are all ok.

Sounds like the healthcare workers need to quit screwing up.

The health care workers might also want to cut back on their Liberian bukkake.

 

[Bucky86]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

IT'S COMING FROM THE VENTS.

 

[shader]

Clearly the Dallas hospital wasn't well equipped to handle their first case. Duncan should have been sent to a facility better equipped. In any case, they will implement new protocols such as the buddy system and that will be that.

You guys are acting like we have never seen infectious diseases before. Tens of thousands of Americans die from infectious diseases a year, but for some reason you all like to panic over one death with Ebola.

These kinds of posts are getting more and more annoying.

As are most posts which bring reality to situations.

Yeah I have no idea how valid it is. If true it's remarkably dumb and the janitor is likely going to get ebola.

update?

It didn't turn out to be true. I read that the janitor wasn't power washing ebola vomit as the headlines were insinuating.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

IT'S COMING FROM THE VENTS.

Not supposed to be airborne? But, who the #### really knows at this point.

Wonder who they are getting to clean these rooms after the Ebola patients? Most of the techs that do the cleaning are high school kids, or other young people who are making 8 bucks an hour. Ugh, what a ####### mess.

 

[fantasycurse42]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

IT'S COMING FROM THE VENTS.

Sounds like it is easier to contract than we are being told. Pretty sure the nurses weren't sharing beverages with the patient or licking their protective gear after removing

Not saying it is airborne, but it appears easier to get than what is being reported.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

IT'S COMING FROM THE VENTS.

Sounds like it is easier to contract than we are being told. Pretty sure the nurses weren't sharing beverages with the patient or licking their protective gear after removing

The only way that I can see taking care of patient with ebola is 1 on 1. Having your own equipment to be used only on this patient, having to burn gowns, gloves, covers, shoes anything that was used. Basically, you should have to strip naked and shower before leaving.

I mean I have taken care of many patients with HIV, and never really felt in danger. With that said, when someone is told that a patient has HIV it still makes people perk up.

 

[Sinn Fein]

We should probably fire the surgeon general over this, no?

There is no surgeon general to fire, thanks to the Republicans in the Senate.

Great. Just great. First the GOP cuts funding, and then won't confirm critical appointees?

Why does the GOP hate America? This was probably released in Africa by one of Cheney's honchos.

 

[Fennis]

We should probably fire the surgeon general over this, no?

There is no surgeon general to fire, thanks to the Republicans in the Senate.

Great. Just great. First the GOP cuts funding, and then won't confirm critical appointees?

Why does the GOP hate America? This was probably released in Africa by one of Cheney's honchos.

probably?

 

[shader]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

IT'S COMING FROM THE VENTS.

Not supposed to be airborne? But, who the #### really knows at this point.

Wonder who they are getting to clean these rooms after the Ebola patients? Most of the techs that do the cleaning are high school kids, or other young people who are making 8 bucks an hour. Ugh, what a ####### mess.

I think the word "airborne" is becoming a problem. Ebola has no chance of becoming airborne to the extent where it can go through a plane and infect everyone.

But the possibility does exist that you can currently get it being within 5-6 feet of someone that sneezes. Is that airborne? Yes. But it's not going to just drift through the air and infect random people. You would need the sneeze to fly directly into your face or your area. Obviously, that is pretty rare in most situations.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ppe-poster.pdf

here is everything you need to know.

 

[[icon]]

BBC breaking News

Second healthcare worker positive for Ebola

"Both health workers treated Liberian man Thomas Eric Duncan, who died last week after becoming the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the US.

A senior Dallas official said there was a "real possibility" of further cases, and contingencies were being prepared."

I guess it takes a long time for news to reach the other side of the globe these days.

Poor icon cant win. He posts rumors from right wing conspiracy sites and we #####. So he goes the other way and posts information from main stream sources and we #####.

Seriously... you guys are nuts if you think I'm following this cluster#### of a thread closely enough to keep trackof everything that's already been posted.

 

[Bucky86]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

IT'S COMING FROM THE VENTS.

Sounds like it is easier to contract than we are being told. Pretty sure the nurses weren't sharing beverages with the patient or licking their protective gear after removing

Not saying it is airborne, but it appears easier to get than what is being reported.

Or you know, get blood/vomit/urine/sweat splattered all over your body and then mistakenly re-contaminate yourself while removing the contaminated material.

 

[matuski]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

I believe she was not wearing face protection beyond basic mask.

 

[shader]

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ppe-poster.pdf

here is everything you need to know.

It's the taking off of the protective equipment that is the hard part. At Level 4 labs, you get decontaminated. In hospitals you don't. I truly think that is where the problem lies.

I was reading about training they can do to teach you how to take off gloves, masks, etc. You cover yourself with shaving cream, then try to take off the equipment without getting shaving cream on you. Probably isn't as easy as you would think it might be.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

I keep seeing those workers in Africa having respirators and full hoods while taking care of ebola patients. That is a lot more protection than face shields and PPE.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

So this nurse used PPE, gown, gloves, and face/head gear. Still got ####### ebola. So, if a trained person can get ebola, how in the world are people who don't deal with using PPE not going to get infected.

I thought Ebola up to now was very hard to contract from an infected person if you didn't share needles, semen, blood, or other bodily fluids.

I believe she was not wearing face protection beyond basic mask.

Yeah, not having a full hood, with a respirator is a big difference.