Edge and Hightower: Updated with links (1 Viewer)

[kutta]

Just passing along some speculation on local AZ radio this morning. Bickly and Jurecki this morning discussed the possibility of Edge losing more carries and in the near future losing his starting job to Hightower. This was just talk, but these guys are really "in the know" with the Cardinals, so I thought it was interesting enough to pass along.

 

[morris4903]

I watched this game yesterday. Now Edge is a player that looks done. Even if Hightower takes over, as much value does he have when the Cards throw the ball 50 times a game?

 

[Otis]

Watching the game yesterday I noticed that Hightower got the first touches. This thought entered my mind.

 

[kutta]

I watched this game yesterday. Now Edge is a player that looks done. Even if Hightower takes over, as much value does he have when the Cards throw the ball 50 times a game?

One reason they are throwing so much is because they can't run. With Hightower in there, it may open up the running game a bit and allow the Cards to become more balanced. I think the coaching staff understands that they are going to have to be able to run in the playoffs, so it would make sense to start laying that groundwork. (It sounds so strange to be talking about the playoffs...)

 

[Trap Play]

Hightower's stat line thus far: 49 carries for 133 yards for a 2.7 yard average. Color me skeptical that they'll run much better even if he does start.

 

[gianmarco]

Hightower's stat line thus far: 49 carries for 133 yards for a 2.7 yard average. Color me skeptical that they'll run much better even if he does start.

Because he's brought in on short-yardage/GL chances. Those don't do much for YPC.

 

[morris4903]

Hightower's stat line thus far: 49 carries for 133 yards for a 2.7 yard average. Color me skeptical that they'll run much better even if he does start.

Obviously this is skewed because he mainly comes in for short yardage and goaline situations.

 

[LBH]

Hightower's stat line thus far: 49 carries for 133 yards for a 2.7 yard average. Color me skeptical that they'll run much better even if he does start.

how many of Hightowers carries come on 3rd or 4th and short or at the GL. The average might be misleading because of the amount of short yardage situations he is in

 

[awesomeness]

This seems like old news really. Hightower has had more touches than Edge the last 2 games, even though Hightower's yards per carry is even worse than Edge's.

 

[azgroover]

I'd like to see what Hightower can do as the featured back. I've noticed he has a habit of bouncing just about every run to the outside. Not sure if that's by design or just the way he runs. IMO, the roles should be reversed and let Edge be the short yardage guy until we know what Hightower is capable of getting 20 touches/game.

 

[Trap Play]

Hightower's stat line thus far: 49 carries for 133 yards for a 2.7 yard average. Color me skeptical that they'll run much better even if he does start.

Obviously this is skewed because he mainly comes in for short yardage and goaline situations.

Fair enough. I don't doubt they should give him a chance, but I'm not overly optimistic the results are going to be dramatically different regardless.

 

[Tau837]

Hightower's stat line thus far: 49 carries for 133 yards for a 2.7 yard average. Color me skeptical that they'll run much better even if he does start.

how many of Hightowers carries come on 3rd or 4th and short or at the GL. The average might be misleading because of the amount of short yardage situations he is in

Hightower has 18 carries with 0-2 yards to go, for 45 yards and 6 TDs. That means his other 31 carries have been for 88 yards and 0 TDs... not particularly impressive.Hightower splits

 

[kutta]

I'd like to see what Hightower can do as the featured back. I've noticed he has a habit of bouncing just about every run to the outside. Not sure if that's by design or just the way he runs. IMO, the roles should be reversed and let Edge be the short yardage guy until we know what Hightower is capable of getting 20 touches/game.

I agree. It seems like they have it backwards to me right now too.

 

[kutta]

This seems like old news really. Hightower has had more touches than Edge the last 2 games, even though Hightower's yards per carry is even worse than Edge's.

But the key is where they are getting the touches. They are not running very much between the 20's right now, and that is when Edge is in. In short yardage and at the goal line is when they bring in Hightower. The speculation is that they will start running Hightower more between the 20's and not just in short yardage.

 

[Kleck]

Hightower's Split Stats

 

[JPeso]

Cards brought him in in a short-yardage situation yesterday, he got hit in the backfield, used the stiff arm, and surged forward for 5. Right now, when he comes in, the opposition knows it is likely to be a run play, but they won't be able to stack the line when he is in there in regular situations with Warner/Fitz/Boldin.

Only time, folks.

 

[CalBear]

With 5 or more yards to go, Hightower has 30 carries for 82 yards, 2.73 yards/carry. Edge is 91/325 for 3.57 yards/carry. With 10+ yards to go, Hightower is 22/52, 2.36 yards/carry, Edge is 70/258, 3.69 yards/carry.

For that matter, between 1-3 yards to go, Edge goes for 3.45 yards/carry and Hightower is 2.56 yards/carry.

Inside the opponent's 5 yard line, Edge goes for 2.6 yards/carry (3 TDs on 5 rushes) and Hightower for 0.89 yards/carry (5 TDs on 9 rushes).

Hightower has been effective as a receiver in long-yardage situations, but not as a runner. I certainly don't expect him to supplant Edge, who is one of the top backs of his era and still appears more effective than Hightower in every situation on the field.

 

[joffer]

the lack of a running game in Arizona is not the fault of the RB, however they throw enough and score enough that the better receiving RB and GL back have good value. if they're both the same RB, even better.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Hightower's Split Stats

Nothing particularly impressive about those stats.

 

[shredhead]

Stats shmats, people need to use their eyes and watch the kid instead of using their eyes to read end of game stats. I want to hear from somebody who has watched him run and hear their opinion. I haven't watched enough of him to form an opinion, but I know I really can't learn anything about him by his stats. I personally hope Edge and Hightower's jobs stay as they are because Hightower is money in my TD only league.

 

[Northern Voice]

I love Hightower (have him in a TD heavy dynasty) but he hasn't shown that he can take over the job yet, IMO. Edge looks like he's finished, so it makes sense to give Hightower an extended audition for next year, I'm just not confident he can run with it to the point that the Cards don't look elsewhere in the offseason and keep him in his 3rd down/Goalline role. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[GregR_2]

Hightower's Split Stats

Nothing particularly impressive about those stats.

Indeed. His only significant category with a rushing average that is over 3.2 ypc is on 3rd and long. 2.5 ypc on first down. A combined 3.15 on carries outside the red zone.

 

[SleeperPix]

I would try to sell Hightower now while the rumors are in the air.

 

[Otis]

so it makes sense to give Hightower an extended audition for next year

Not when you're in first place in your division and looking for the best year the club has had in its history. I don't see them fixing anything unless and until its broke.

 

[JPeso]

so it makes sense to give Hightower an extended audition for next year

Not when you're in first place in your division and looking for the best year the club has had in its history. I don't see them fixing anything unless and until its broke.

Edge=Broken.

 

[CalBear]

so it makes sense to give Hightower an extended audition for next year

Not when you're in first place in your division and looking for the best year the club has had in its history. I don't see them fixing anything unless and until its broke.

Edge=Broken.

Even if he's broken, he's still performing better than Hightower.

 

[NCPanthersFan]

@STL

SF (running game already put up 100 yards once this year in earlier matchup)

SEA

We will see what the run game can do in these games. Unless Arizona D makes them go shootout (always possible) I don't see why the gameplan would not try to cater some more to the run. I would rather hold the "put the fork in it" conversation until the stats from these games are presented.

 

[TidesofWar]

I think Edge is about done, and picked up Hightower early in the season banking on this turn of events

 

[Rockchild]

Hightower kind of reminds me of a less talented MBIII. Maybe it's the situations that he's been placed in but he seems to run with a similar abandon to MBIII albeit slower and less powerful. This is only my opinion based on limited observations.

 

[kutta]

Two articles in today's AZ Republic addressed this:

link 1

Warner isn't going anywhere, but veteran running back Edgerrin James could see his carries significantly reduced in favor of rookie Tim Hightower, who has rushed for six touchdowns, three shy of the team's record for first-year players.

Whisenhunt was asked Monday if such a change could take place, and he didn't mince words.

"I think we've shown we're going to go with the players that give us the best chance to win," he said. "We did that with the quarterback, we did that at linebacker, we did that with the offensive line. So if we feel Tim gives us the best chance to win, then absolutely."

Nothing has been determined, officially, although James on Monday sounded more than resigned to the fact that his days in Arizona appear numbered when he said, among other things that he was "put in a position to fail."

"I'd rather not say anything," he added, "because I might get into more trouble."

link 2: James Fading as Hightower Emerges

Edgerrin James has had to navigate some treacherous terrain in his career, but never in territory that felt this unfamiliar.

Call it the land of aging running backs who feel they're being phased out for younger, shinier models. In the Cardinals' case, that model is Tim Hightower.

"It's cool with me," James said Monday when told Hightower could get more snaps. "That's the way it was heading, anyway."

...

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt never said Hightower was supplanting James. He simply said Monday, when asked, that he is open to the possibility.

"I think we've shown we're going to play with the players that we feel give us the best chance to win," he said. "We've done that with the quarterbacks, we've done that with linebacker, with the offensive line.

"At a point we feel Tim gives us the best chance to win, then absolutely. Just don't think we'll judge it based on just yesterday's game. It's a process."

After averaging 20 carries in the Cardinals' first three games, James has carried nine and seven times, respectively, in the past two.

Hightower carried seven and six in those games but has six touchdowns overall to James' three.

 

[Tanner9919]

typical 'coachspeak'

just my two cents, Edge is about to reel off a couple of nice games with the Rams, SF, Seattle on the schedule over the next 3 weeks..

I just don't see Hightower being anything special..when give the chance he does nothing with it..

I doubt Hightower is the Cards' starting RB next season..

 

[kutta]

typical 'coachspeak'just my two cents, Edge is about to reel off a couple of nice games with the Rams, SF, Seattle on the schedule over the next 3 weeks..I just don't see Hightower being anything special..when give the chance he does nothing with it..I doubt Hightower is the Cards' starting RB next season..

That's an interesting position. The vast majority of Cardinals fans that I know, as well as the majority of the press here in AZ disagree with you.

 

[jonboltz]

typical 'coachspeak'just my two cents, Edge is about to reel off a couple of nice games with the Rams, SF, Seattle on the schedule over the next 3 weeks..I just don't see Hightower being anything special..when give the chance he does nothing with it..I doubt Hightower is the Cards' starting RB next season..

That's an interesting position. The vast majority of Cardinals fans that I know, as well as the majority of the press here in AZ disagree with you.

they disagree with what part? That edge is done, or that Hightower is not special?

 

[biggamer3]

Get Timmy now while he is pretty low still in value.

That 20 yard catch vs Dallas showed me he has good PPR ability as well

 

[cubbie5150]

I'm starting Hightower week 9 w/ Gore on a BYE, but I tend to agree that Hightower won't be getting the majority of touches anytime soon. Edge makes too much $$, and I just don't see him rotting on the bench (this year) especially when Hightower's non-short yardage/goaline YPC is worse than Edge's....

 

[jaybebo]

I am starting Edge this weekend with both Gore and DWilliams on the bye. He has a successful history against the Rams the last five games and I am banking he at least gets 60+ yards and a TD.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

So people are forming their opinions on how each player actually looks when he's playing; not from the stats. Color me surprised.

 

[kutta]

typical 'coachspeak'just my two cents, Edge is about to reel off a couple of nice games with the Rams, SF, Seattle on the schedule over the next 3 weeks..I just don't see Hightower being anything special..when give the chance he does nothing with it..I doubt Hightower is the Cards' starting RB next season..

That's an interesting position. The vast majority of Cardinals fans that I know, as well as the majority of the press here in AZ disagree with you.

they disagree with what part? That edge is done, or that Hightower is not special?

1. Edge about to reel off a couple nice games2. Hightower not being special3. Hightower not being the Cards starting RB next season

 

[two_dollars]

 

[teamroc]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.

Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall.

Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

 

[Traders2001]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall. Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

From a owner who cant get Hightowwr via trade.

 

[morris4903]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.

Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall.

Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

If this was all true he wouldn't be in the NFL. Hyperbole much?And if this was all true, what does this say about Edge when Hightower is taking some of his carries?

 

[Riffraff]

Put me in the camp that thinks Arizona's next starting RB is not on the roster yet.

 

[SleeperPix]

There are no good ff rbs in Az this year

 

[creeps1313]

Hightower had 6 carries for 3 yards with a high carry of 2 yards....which was the TD run. So he had 4 carries..or 66.6% of his carries....in which in he gain 0 yards. If thats the future RB for the Cards then Im glad I have Warner!!

Ive watched a few Cards games and have not been impressed with Hightower. I also think Whisenhunt is an idiot for giving Hightower the GL carries. I think hes already fumbled at least 3 times at the goal line. Call me crazy but I would give my future HOF RB the ball at the GL over a rookie 10 out of 10 times.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Moreno is going to look good in a Cardinals uniform next year.

 

[teamroc]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.

Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall.

Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

If this was all true he wouldn't be in the NFL. Hyperbole much?And if this was all true, what does this say about Edge when Hightower is taking some of his carries?

Oh snap! You're right, he was drafted in the 5th round because he's a physical beast, breaks tackles, can take it to the house on any play, excellent vision, great speed and amazing vision. How did so many teams miss on him?

 

[morris4903]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.

Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall.

Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

If this was all true he wouldn't be in the NFL. Hyperbole much?And if this was all true, what does this say about Edge when Hightower is taking some of his carries?

Oh snap! You're right, he was drafted in the 5th round because he's a physical beast, breaks tackles, can take it to the house on any play, excellent vision, great speed and amazing vision. How did so many teams miss on him?

Where did I say that?

 

[teamroc]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.

Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall.

Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

If this was all true he wouldn't be in the NFL. Hyperbole much?And if this was all true, what does this say about Edge when Hightower is taking some of his carries?

Oh snap! You're right, he was drafted in the 5th round because he's a physical beast, breaks tackles, can take it to the house on any play, excellent vision, great speed and amazing vision. How did so many teams miss on him?

Where did I say that?

Hightower? Where did I lose you?You disagee with "Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. ". And you disagree with "physical beast, breaks tackles, can take it to the house on any play, excellent vision, great speed and amazing vision.". Way to bring the thunder to the thread.

Lots of average RBs make it to the NFL. And will never be a feature RB. Hightower is one of them. He works hard, he runs hard, he'll be the backup end of a RBBC at best. Starting feature RB? Nah.

 

[morris4903]

Anyone pumping Hightower hasn't seem him play, and is doing so just because he's a rookie and Edge is old.

Hightower has been very AVERAGE. He's a backup end of a RBBC at best in the NFL. He's merely working himself into a RBBC. Edge isn't going anywhere. Yah, he runs hard. So does every RB in the NFL. There's 60 practice squad guys who would come in and "run hard" and bash their head into a wall.

Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. Gives good effort, but clearly huge question marks about him ever being able to be a featured RB in this league. Sorry, watch the games.

If this was all true he wouldn't be in the NFL. Hyperbole much?And if this was all true, what does this say about Edge when Hightower is taking some of his carries?

Oh snap! You're right, he was drafted in the 5th round because he's a physical beast, breaks tackles, can take it to the house on any play, excellent vision, great speed and amazing vision. How did so many teams miss on him?

Where did I say that?

Hightower? Where did I lose you?You disagee with "Questionable ability to break tackles, doesn't make people miss, poor vision, poor speed, poor quickness, isn't explosive, zero burst and no big play threat. ". And you disagree with "physical beast, breaks tackles, can take it to the house on any play, excellent vision, great speed and amazing vision.". Way to bring the thunder to the thread.

Lots of average RBs make it to the NFL. And will never be a feature RB. Hightower is one of them. He works hard, he runs hard, he'll be the backup end of a RBBC at best. Starting feature RB? Nah.

Thanks for letting me know we are talking about Hightower. Maybe I disagreed with both of your claims because they were completely outlandish and he is somewhere in the middle?

My point is more of how much Edge has slipped compared to how good Hightower is.

P.S. I also disagree that every RB in the NFL runs hard.