Edgerrin James and the Hall of Fame (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

Edge is currently 13th on the list of all-time leading rushers.

If he gets 1,133 yards rushing this season (a reasonable expectation, since he had 1,222 last year), he will move up to 6th on the list! That would vault him past Thurman Thomas, Franco Harris, Marcus Allen, Marshall Faulk, Jim Brown and Tony Dorsett by January. Pretty impressive, especially when you consider he missed 10 games in his third season. He could easily have another 1,000 yards by now.

Furthermore, if he plays a full 2009, and even part of 2010, there is a good chance he could end up at least 4th on the all-time rushing list. Based on that alone, it's probably unlikely he could be kept out of the Hall of Fame. But with the "eyeball test"... he never struck me as a Hall-of-Famer. I never watched him and said "Wow... I am watching one of the all-time GREATS here."

I took an informal poll of the guys in my local league. All of them are hardcore football fans. Out of 11 guys, only three said to the "Is Edge a Hall of Fame running back?" question. I think it's unfair to call him a compiler, so I'll stop short of that. This isn't a baseball player who played in Coors Field for 8 years. Edge ran with so much power during his career, and took so much of a beating, I won't dismiss his accomplishments. But he never appeared to be special, which is what the Hall of Fame should be about.

I'd be curious to hear opinions on the matter.

 

[renesauz]

The HOF is not now, nor has it ever been, truly fair and balanced. QB's and RB's have a disparate advantage when it comes to these sorts of recognitions...probably because they simply touch the ball so much more and are in the spotlight so much more.

While Edge may not be an all-time great, but he spent the majority of his career at a pro-bowl caliber level. Any RB or QB who does that makes it.

I voted yes on both counts based on the fact that it would be unfair to change the rules for RB's now, but if they were held to the same standards of domination that other (non-"skill") position players are held to, he would probably come up short.

Without knowing who else would be on the ballot, it's hard to say (right now) whether he'd be a "first ballott" player. I suspect he'd be second.

 

[kaa]

I remember when he first came out of college and he seemed like the premier RB in the NFL. He had over 2200 yards in his second season. It seemed like the sky was the limit. Then he blew out his ACL and never reached those numbers again.

 

[gkza]

He was one of the dominant players at the positionfor his era. I believe with the exception of Jim Brown, he has the best yards per touch in NFL history. In an era of 1 or 2 year wonders, he has been very good on a consistent basis:

4x Pro Bowl selection (1999, 2000, 2004, 2005)

4x All-Pro selection (1999, 2000, 2004, 2005)

AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (1999)

Led NFL with 1,553 rushing yards in 1999

Led NFL with 1,709 rushing yards in 2000

Colts career rushing yards (9,226)

Colts career rushing touchdowns (64)

 

[Raider Nation]

The HOF is not now, nor has it ever been, truly fair and balanced. QB's and RB's have a disparate advantage when it comes to these sorts of recognitions...probably because they simply touch the ball so much more and are in the spotlight so much more.While Edge may not be an all-time great, but he spent the majority of his career at a pro-bowl caliber level. Any RB or QB who does that makes it.I voted yes on both counts based on the fact that it would be unfair to change the rules for RB's now, but if they were held to the same standards of domination that other (non-"skill") position players are held to, he would probably come up short.Without knowing who else would be on the ballot, it's hard to say (right now) whether he'd be a "first ballott" player. I suspect he'd be second.

I heard a beat writer on Sirius who has a HoF vote (forgive me, no idea what his name is), and if he is any indication, Edge will not get in on the first ballot. This guy said he didn't think Edge was a Hall-of-Famer, period. The second part of the poll is more important to me than the first part. As I indicated, on the numbers alone he ends up with, I don't see how he's kept out.Personally, I hope he gets in simply because I can't wait for his speech.:clears throat:"Thanks. See ya later."

 

[BigRed]

Thanks for yet another reminder of how much stats count nowdays vs how much they should. These "all time most (yds TDs etc)" is esp a joke, given that they play more games, games are more wide open etc etc. Don't get me wrong EJ was very good (and still isn't bad), but when I think HoF RB, he does not come to mind.

 

[Raider Nation]

Thanks for yet another reminder of how much stats count nowdays vs how much they should. These "all time most (yds TDs etc)" is esp a joke, given that they play more games, games are more wide open etc etc. Don't get me wrong EJ was very good (and still isn't bad), but when I think HoF RB, he does not come to mind.

8/20/08Dear diary,I agreed with Big Red.

 

[BigRed]

Never thought you'd come around. And this from a - Raider fan - um -

I change my mind, EJ for HoF.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I guess I just feel like a large part of his success was thanks to Peyton Manning. Maybe it's unfair, especially since he was already 28 and the Cards were so bad, but the dropoff in performance going to the Cardinals was pretty significant. And the dropoff in Indy's offensive performance obviously didn't exist.

He was certainly a more dynamic RB before his ACL injury than after too. Although 2004 was a great year for him. He just never seemed to be the same threat though after the injury.

 

[gkza]

Last year there was talk of Tiki getting considered, which I think is non sense. Edge is much better than Tiki IMO.

 

[Chase Stuart]

James reminds me a bit of Fred Taylor. His recent string of solid but unspectacular years has many forgetting how good he used to be. In a game against the Bears in '04, he may have been able to take a shot at the single game rushing record if it wasn't such a blowout. Edge absolutely had elite talent and had some memorable and incredible games and seasons.

He has 731 points of VBD, almost exactly the same as Shaun Alexander.

 

[switz]

James reminds me a bit of Fred Taylor. His recent string of solid but unspectacular years has many forgetting how good he used to be. In a game against the Bears in '04, he may have been able to take a shot at the single game rushing record if it wasn't such a blowout. Edge absolutely had elite talent and had some memorable and incredible games and seasons.He has 731 points of VBD, almost exactly the same as Shaun Alexander.

The OP makes me think he only saw Edge for the first time last season

 

[Tom in Albany]

He gets in easy - this isn't baseball.

 

[David Yudkin]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

 

[Tau837]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

If he plays another 2-3 years, and is firmly in the top 5-7 for career yardage, don't see any way he is kept out.

 

[Chase Stuart]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

Lots of good RBs that are arguably better than him aren't in. I'm working on a RB all time list that's very much still a work in progress, but Roger Craig, Herschel Walker and James Brooks rank ahead of James. So do some not yet eligible guys - Holmes, Fred Taylor and Barber. James also has a lot of fumbles for a modern back.

 

[Tau837]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

Lots of good RBs that are arguably better than him aren't in. I'm working on a RB all time list that's very much still a work in progress, but Roger Craig, Herschel Walker and James Brooks rank ahead of James. So do some not yet eligible guys - Holmes, Fred Taylor and Barber. James also has a lot of fumbles for a modern back.

I don't think Craig or Walker were better than James. It will be interesting to see your list and poke holes in your formula.

 

[gkza]

Although it has nothing to do with how he played, its speaks volumes of his perception coming out of college:

The colts parted ways with Marshall Faulk (!). I belive to move up in the '99 draft, and Edge was taken ahead of Ricky Williams, who was treated like Jesus at the time at the NC2A level. I remember the look of awe on Riky's face when Edge went ahead of him.

Edge was a beast, I like how he went from UM "thug" (or at least perceived that way) to humble elder statesman/team leader...

 

[stevegamer]

In. He's had the peak value and the career value. A local league is no gauge of anything - they are almost always people who know nothing.

I had a discussionw ith someone who think the Rams have never had a RB as good as Stephen Jackson. When I mentioned Faulk, they went a bit overboard, saying he couldn't hold Jackson's jock and wasn't close. I decided to not mention Eric Dickerson, since I'd probably get "He's an announcer." So I just discredit everything they say, due to the idiot provision.

 

[stevegamer]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

Lots of good RBs that are arguably better than him aren't in. I'm working on a RB all time list that's very much still a work in progress, but Roger Craig, Herschel Walker and James Brooks rank ahead of James. So do some not yet eligible guys - Holmes, Fred Taylor and Barber. James also has a lot of fumbles for a modern back.

Clearly it still needs some more progress.

 

[Native]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

Love these conversations. I know youre going to come back at me with loads of data, but how many of Edge's RB peers are worthy to make the HOF? I think that should be the question were asking. Do we really need 6-7 RB's from one generation in the HOF? Right now I see two sure-fire HOFers among his contempararies and a whole bunch of "what if" guys. I personally wouldnt want to have more than 3-4 guys MAX in the HOF from one position when there are so many other worthy players from previous generations who still have not received their due.I listed all the RB's not yet eligible for the HOF and broke them into two simple categories:

Better than Edge:

1) Marshall Faulk - No doubt in my mind

2) Tomlinson- More explsove, better stats.

3) Emmitt Smith* - Clearly better than Edge but the overlap is only slight. Emmitt played in the league together with Edge for 6 out of 15 seasons. Hes clealry more of a contempary of Barry Sanders - who never played with Edge (Barry retired in 1998)

Other Candidates

4) Curtis Martin - Most will probably say Martin was better due to his streak of 1000 seasons.

5) Priest Holmes - Slightly more explosive player than Edge in his prime whose career was derailed by injuries.

6) Terrell Davis - Not a lot of overlap as TD was at the end of his career when Edge entered the league. Still, in the annals of history these guys both excelled within the same narrow time period from 1995-2005. They may yet be competing with one another.

7) Shaun Alexander - In his prime I felt Alexander was more talented and carried his team in a way Edge never had to do. Many more TD's and much better YPC in his prime.

8) Jerome Bettis - Edge has the statistical advantage but Id consider Bettis to be a more talented back on a less explosive offense. Also led his team to a Super Bowl - something the Colts never did with Edge.

9) Jamal Lewis - IMO a sneaky comparison to Edge - A few great seasons at the onset of their careers who have become compilers later in life. Last year Lewis was a surprise and could duplicate his performance this year.

10) Fred Taylor - Look how many "worthy" RB's there are from this generation. Fred has the same number of 1000 yard seasons as Edge (7), was more explosive and and possesses one of the great modern-day all-time YPC (4.7 vs Edges paltry 4.1). Still, he he never had the same lasting impact and will not get voted in.

11) Ricky Watters - One of the ultimate compilers who appears in many "all time" categories but was never a top 3 back - even in his prime

IMO Edge simply doesnt stand out against ALL of the "Other" RB's from this generation.

 

[slayer666]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

Lots of good RBs that are arguably better than him aren't in. I'm working on a RB all time list that's very much still a work in progress, but Roger Craig, Herschel Walker and James Brooks rank ahead of James.

No way Roger Craig, Herschel Walker and James Brooks deserve to go in the HOF over Edgerrin James. Personally, I would put James in right now over all three of those backs, and Edge probably still has a couple of seasons left to pad his numbers.

 

[yetiknight]

Bottom line: Edge leaves the Colts, who replace him with a rookie and a career backup. They win the Super Bowl the very next year without Edge. And more importantly, Edge is paid very well to join an explosive, young, up and coming offense, only to become average at best. He has looked over-the-hill since his arrival in Arizona.

I believe his career success was hedged by the knee injury in his third season. Being apart of a great offense allowed him to overcome that to a large degree. If he had remained healthy throughout his career he would definately be a first ballot HOFer IMO. His talent and situation were ideal, but the injury made the difference.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

James reminds me a bit of Fred Taylor. His recent string of solid but unspectacular years has many forgetting how good he used to be. In a game against the Bears in '04, he may have been able to take a shot at the single game rushing record if it wasn't such a blowout. Edge absolutely had elite talent and had some memorable and incredible games and seasons.He has 731 points of VBD, almost exactly the same as Shaun Alexander.

Taylor has never been to a pro bowl. Edge was consistently a better player.

 

[teamroc]

James reminds me a bit of Fred Taylor. His recent string of solid but unspectacular years has many forgetting how good he used to be. In a game against the Bears in '04, he may have been able to take a shot at the single game rushing record if it wasn't such a blowout. Edge absolutely had elite talent and had some memorable and incredible games and seasons.He has 731 points of VBD, almost exactly the same as Shaun Alexander.

Taylor has never been to a pro bowl. Edge was consistently a better player.

Yeah that's not even close.As someone else said;4x Pro Bowl selection (1999, 2000, 2004, 2005) 4x All-Pro selection (1999, 2000, 2004, 2005) AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (1999) Led NFL with 1,553 rushing yards in 1999 Led NFL with 1,709 rushing yards in 2000 About 10 things there Taylor has never done. Lets stay focused.

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

James reminds me a bit of Fred Taylor. His recent string of solid but unspectacular years has many forgetting how good he used to be. In a game against the Bears in '04, he may have been able to take a shot at the single game rushing record if it wasn't such a blowout. Edge absolutely had elite talent and had some memorable and incredible games and seasons.He has 731 points of VBD, almost exactly the same as Shaun Alexander.

Taylor has never been to a pro bowl. Edge was consistently a better player.

Actually, Taylor went to his first Pro Bowl Jan 2008

 

[dcgangstas]

I won't delve into the statistics, but when I look at Edgerrin James' body of work in the NFL, he is clearly going to be a Hall of Famer. Probably not first ballot, but he will get in on the 2nd ballot.

Edge was a complete back, and a huge part of the Colts' offense. Manning, Harrison and James became "the new triplets", in the mold of Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt. James ran the stretch plays with power and precision, showing great patience in finding the creases through defenses. And primarily due to his effectiveness in the run game, Peyton Manning's play-action fakes to James opened great mismatches for Marvin Harrison.

 

[Jerry Lawler]

Edge certainly passed the eyeball test for me. In Indy he had a distinctive style of reading his blocks, avoiding direct hits long enough to stay upright and moving forward, and showing bursts of speed when needed to turn the corner or hit the hole. Even though he used vision and balance more than most HOF backs, he had the measurables of other great backs (4.38 40 time at the draft combine).

While the Colts won a championship after Edge left, I'm not so sure he didn't have something to do with developing the running game and the franchise. The Colts reportedly sent him a championship ring to acknowledge his contributions to building up a team that had previously been picking in the top 5 far too often. I don't think it's coincidence that RB coach Gene Huey has taught Addai to run in a way that is in some ways reminiscent of Edge's style. Still, he would have a more convincing case for a spot in the HOF if he had won championship. It's worth considering that the offense ran much better when Edge was on the field. When he played, the Colts were a combined 70-26. When he was out, the Colts compiled a 6-10 record.

 

[moderated]

He should be a lock, but the HOF is very political and Edge isn't the type to kiss ###.

 

[Tau837]

IN . . . and I don't even see how there is an argument against him. I could rattle off a ton of stats and reasons, but there's no need to.

Love these conversations. I know youre going to come back at me with loads of data, but how many of Edge's RB peers are worthy to make the HOF? I think that should be the question were asking. DO we really need 6-7 RB's from one generation in the HOF? Right now I see two sure-fire HOFers who are his contempararies and a whole bunch of "what if" guys. I personally wouldnt want to have more than 3-4 guys MAX in the HOF from one position when there are so many other worthy players from previous generations who still have not received their due.I listed all the RB's not yet eligible for the HOF and broke them into two simple categories:

Better than Edge:

1) Marshall Faulk - No doubt in my mind

2) Tomlinson- More explsove, better stats.

3) Emmitt Smith* - Clearly better than Edge but the overlap is only slight. Emmitt played in the league together with Edge for 6 out of 15 seasons. Hes clealry more of a contempary of Barry Sanders - who never played with Edge (Barry retired in 1998)

Other Candidates

3) Curtis Martin - Most will probably say Martin was better due to his streak of 1000 seasons.

4) Priest Holmes - Slightly more explosive player than Edge in his prime whose career was derailed by injuries.

5) Terrell Davis - Not a lot of overlap as TD was at the end of his career when Edge entered the league. Still, in the annals of history these guys both excelled within the same narrow time period from 1995-2005. They may yet be competing with one another.

6) Shaun Alexander - In his prime I felt Alexander was more talented and carried his team in a way Edge never had to do. Many more TD's and much better YPC in his prime.

7) Jerome Bettis - Edge has the statistical advantage but Id consider Bettis to be a more talented back on a less explosive offense. Also led his team to a Super Bowl - something the Colts never did with Edge.

8) Jamal Lewis - IMO a sneaky comparison to Edge - A few great seasons at the onset of their careers who have become compilers later in life. Last year Lewis was a surprise and could duplicate his performance this year.

9) Fred Taylor - Look how many "worthy" RB's there are from this generation. Fred has the same number of 1000 yard seasons as Edge (7), was more explosive and and possesses one of the great modern-day all-time YPC (4.7 vs Edges paltry 4.1). Still, he he never had the same lasting impact and will not get voted in.

10) Ricky Watters - One of the ultimate compilers who appears in many "all time" categories but was never a top 3 back - even in his prime

IMO Edge simply doesnt stand out against ALL of the "other" RB's from this generation.

You listed 11 RBs. I think Edge is clearly more deserving than 5 of them - Holmes, Davis, Lewis, Taylor, and Watters. I think the rest of them, along with Edge, will make it. I would tier those 7 players like this:Emmitt, Faulk, Tomlinson

Martin

Bettis, Alexander, James

That is a lot from one "era," though I'm not sure it is appropriate to call the period 1990-2008+ one era.

 

[Twilight]

I'm actually on the no side. If the injury never occured, then it would be a slam dunk based on his first couple of years. But he didn't come back the same player. He's been a compiler every since, and I think there are enough RB's who have passed him to prevent him from making it.

 

[Jerry Lawler]

I don't follow baseball too closely, so I'm not too familiar with the "compiler" label. Could I define it as "a player who ends his career with impressive totals without having any individual standout seasons"?

If so, I respectfully disagree with applying the label to James. In my opinion, he took 2 full seasons before he returned to form around mid 2003. Here are his subsequent 2 seasons with the Colts:

2004 - 2,031 total yards, 9 TD's

2005 - 1,843 total yards, 14 TD's

Looks like a couple of standout seasons to me.

 

[Tau837]

I'm actually on the no side. If the injury never occured, then it would be a slam dunk based on his first couple of years. But he didn't come back the same player. He's been a compiler every since, and I think there are enough RB's who have passed him to prevent him from making it.

You think he was a compiler in 2004 & 2005? We must have different definitions of compiler.It is also worth noting that he has averaged 116+ total yards per game for his career. His worst season to date in terms of total yards per game was 2006, when he averaged 86 yards per game. Sorry, I just don't see a compiler there.

 

[moleculo]

voted no, but I think I'm gonna change my mind.

I did a historical RB ranking here, and I really like the results from this. Per this analysis, EJames now ranks tied for 14th with Leroy Kelly. That puts him in the ballpark.

 

[Chase Stuart]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

 

[Raider Nation]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

as always.

 

[gianmarco]

Not to hijack, but saw this name mentioned and wonder the same.......

Is Shaun Alexander a HOF back?

 

[slayer666]

Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

So are you saying Thurman Thomas deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Edge due to his four Super Bowl losses? (Just curious because their overall digits are pretty close)Thurman Thomas (13 seasons)

2,877 carries, 12,074 yards, 65 touchdowns (4.2 YPC)

472 receptions, 4,458 yards, 23 touchdowns

16,532 yards from scrimmage, 88 total touchdowns

Edgerrin James (9 seasons)

2,849 carries, 11,607 yards, 77 touchdowns (4.1 YPC)

418 receptions, 3,260 yards, 11 touchdowns

14,867 yards from scrimmage, 88 total touchdowns

 

[Chase Stuart]

Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

So are you saying Thurman Thomas deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Edge due to his four Super Bowl losses? (Just curious because their overall digits are pretty close)Thurman Thomas (13 seasons)

2,877 carries, 12,074 yards, 65 touchdowns (4.2 YPC)

472 receptions, 4,458 yards, 23 touchdowns

16,532 yards from scrimmage, 88 total touchdowns

Edgerrin James (9 seasons)

2,849 carries, 11,607 yards, 77 touchdowns (4.1 YPC)

418 receptions, 3,260 yards, 11 touchdowns

14,867 yards from scrimmage, 88 total touchdowns

Thomas was a much better receiver. He averaged 9.4 YPR to James' 7.8 YPR. Thomas, IMO, was one of the better receiving RBs of all time and James was just an above average receiver. Their numbers are closer than I remembered, though, but Thomas is also a guy with a ton of post-season success. James' post-season drags his HOF status down, while Thomas' post-season success brings his numbers up.It's close, but I think Thomas is a clear tier above James.

 

[Raider Nation]

Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

So are you saying Thurman Thomas deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Edge due to his four Super Bowl losses? (Just curious because their overall digits are pretty close)Thurman Thomas (13 seasons)

2,877 carries, 12,074 yards, 65 touchdowns (4.2 YPC)

472 receptions, 4,458 yards, 23 touchdowns

16,532 yards from scrimmage, 88 total touchdowns

Edgerrin James (9 seasons)

2,849 carries, 11,607 yards, 77 touchdowns (4.1 YPC)

418 receptions, 3,260 yards, 11 touchdowns

14,867 yards from scrimmage, 88 total touchdowns

Thomas was a much better receiver. He averaged 9.4 YPR to James' 7.8 YPR. Thomas, IMO, was one of the better receiving RBs of all time and James was just an above average receiver. Their numbers are closer than I remembered, though, but Thomas is also a guy with a ton of post-season success. James' post-season drags his HOF status down, while Thomas' post-season success brings his numbers up.It's close, but I think Thomas is a clear tier above James.

A lot of people forget how great Thurman was. He, not Kelly or Reed, was the key to Buffalo's success, IMO.

 

[Tau837]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

By the bolded statement, you appear to be suggesting that the fact that Allen and Riggins have over 100 rushing TDs is enough to overcome their low YPCs to make them HOF worthy. Am I reading that correctly? Riggins has 116 total TDs, and Allen has 144. Edge has 88, but he should break 100. I'd say there is a chance he'll surpass 116, but he won't come close to 144.Let me ask you a direct question: do you think John Riggins is more worthy of the HOF than James?

I don't. But I also don't think that justifies getting another RB into the HOF either - each player should get in on his own merits.

More questions: do you think Bettis and Alexander will get into the HOF? Do you think each of them is more worthy than James?

 

[David Yudkin]

Since I have time and people want to listen . . .

* Edge has had 4 seasons of 1500+ rushing yards. Others? Dickerson, Payton, Sanders. That's it.

* 90.7 yards rushing per game, 7th all-time

* 116.2 yards from scrimmage per game. He previously was #1 all-time but slipped since going to Arizona (don't have a list where he ranks all-time)

* 25.5 touches per game. Emmitt was 21.7. LT is at 25.4.

* Three seasons with 2,000+ yfs (Barber, Dickerson, Faulk, Holmes, Payton, Tomlinson).

* 4th highest rushing yards through age 29 (Sanders, Smith, Payton)

* 4th highest yfs through age 29 (Sanders, Faulk, Smith)

* 6th most total TD through age 29 (Smith, Tomlinson, Faulk, Alexander, Sanders)

* 7th most RB receptions through age 29

* 837 additional yfs and 5 more TD in the post season in 9 games played

* Record of teams he's played on in the regular season: 90-54

* With 1100 rushing yards this year, will move to 7th all-time (which would also get him to a similar ranking in yards from scrimmage)

 

[David Yudkin]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

Edge has a higher career ypc than Martin and Bettis . . . are those two "outside looking in"?I would concur that in MY HOF, neither Martin nor Bettis would make it, but in THE HOF I don't see how those two don't get in.

Edge is also only a fraction of a point lower than Emmitt . . . so Emmitt shouldn't get in?

 

[SuperJohn96]

He'll probably make the HOF, the numbers will be there when he's done.

But he doesn't pass the "Eye Test" or WOW factor for me.

When I watch him play, I don't think to myself, "Now there's one of the All-Time Great runningbacks."

I dunno, maybe he makes things look too easy. Some of the great players in all sports are like that.

I agree with Yudkin, guys like Edge/Martin/Bettis will likely make the Pro Football HOF, but My own HOF would have those guys in the Hall Of Very Good.

Too many people focus on the numbers, which can make the case for almost anyone. Edgerrin James is #1 All-Time in every statistical category for runningbacks named Edgerrin.

 

[Chase Stuart]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

Edge has a higher career ypc than Martin and Bettis . . . are those two "outside looking in"?I would concur that in MY HOF, neither Martin nor Bettis would make it, but in THE HOF I don't see how those two don't get in.

Edge is also only a fraction of a point lower than Emmitt . . . so Emmitt shouldn't get in?

Those guys have plus factors as well -- they're all in the top five in career rushing yards. If your YPC isn't impressive, you need something else. Scoring, receiving, longevity, post-season success.

 

[David Yudkin]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

Edge has a higher career ypc than Martin and Bettis . . . are those two "outside looking in"?I would concur that in MY HOF, neither Martin nor Bettis would make it, but in THE HOF I don't see how those two don't get in.

Edge is also only a fraction of a point lower than Emmitt . . . so Emmitt shouldn't get in?

Those guys have plus factors as well -- they're all in the top five in career rushing yards. If your YPC isn't impressive, you need something else. Scoring, receiving, longevity, post-season success.

The other guys are done playing and Edge is not, so who knows how much true compiling he will do like Bettis did. IMO, the yearly totals of James in IND dwarf those that Bettis had with maybe one year.That's one thing that I had about all these discussions and debates for any player in any sport. Players may hang on for a few extra years producing WELL BELOW their peak seasons and many times BELOW the league average. But somehow those extra seasons of BELOW AVERAGE production gets them MORE Hall of Fame consideration. That's just wrong on so many levels I don't knoe where to begin.

For example, an OF or 1B in baseball hitting .260 with 15 HR and 50 RBI for 5 years generally is not helping a MLB team. But that might get that player to 500 home runs or 3000 hits, so suddenly all those mediocre seasons back to back make that player a first ballot HOFer. I don't get it.

 

[Chase Stuart]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

Edge has a higher career ypc than Martin and Bettis . . . are those two "outside looking in"?I would concur that in MY HOF, neither Martin nor Bettis would make it, but in THE HOF I don't see how those two don't get in.

Edge is also only a fraction of a point lower than Emmitt . . . so Emmitt shouldn't get in?

Those guys have plus factors as well -- they're all in the top five in career rushing yards. If your YPC isn't impressive, you need something else. Scoring, receiving, longevity, post-season success.

The other guys are done playing and Edge is not, so who knows how much true compiling he will do like Bettis did. IMO, the yearly totals of James in IND dwarf those that Bettis had with maybe one year.That's one thing that I had about all these discussions and debates for any player in any sport. Players may hang on for a few extra years producing WELL BELOW their peak seasons and many times BELOW the league average. But somehow those extra seasons of BELOW AVERAGE production gets them MORE Hall of Fame consideration. That's just wrong on so many levels I don't knoe where to begin.

For example, an OF or 1B in baseball hitting .260 with 15 HR and 50 RBI for 5 years generally is not helping a MLB team. But that might get that player to 500 home runs or 3000 hits, so suddenly all those mediocre seasons back to back make that player a first ballot HOFer. I don't get it.

I don't disagree with that. My analysis, though, is on Edge as of today.

 

[David Yudkin]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

Edge has a higher career ypc than Martin and Bettis . . . are those two "outside looking in"?I would concur that in MY HOF, neither Martin nor Bettis would make it, but in THE HOF I don't see how those two don't get in.

Edge is also only a fraction of a point lower than Emmitt . . . so Emmitt shouldn't get in?

Those guys have plus factors as well -- they're all in the top five in career rushing yards. If your YPC isn't impressive, you need something else. Scoring, receiving, longevity, post-season success.

The other guys are done playing and Edge is not, so who knows how much true compiling he will do like Bettis did. IMO, the yearly totals of James in IND dwarf those that Bettis had with maybe one year.That's one thing that I had about all these discussions and debates for any player in any sport. Players may hang on for a few extra years producing WELL BELOW their peak seasons and many times BELOW the league average. But somehow those extra seasons of BELOW AVERAGE production gets them MORE Hall of Fame consideration. That's just wrong on so many levels I don't knoe where to begin.

For example, an OF or 1B in baseball hitting .260 with 15 HR and 50 RBI for 5 years generally is not helping a MLB team. But that might get that player to 500 home runs or 3000 hits, so suddenly all those mediocre seasons back to back make that player a first ballot HOFer. I don't get it.

I don't disagree with that. My analysis, though, is on Edge as of today.

If you are suggesting Edge never played again, his other peripherals other than ypc are extremely high. Look at his rushing yards per game and yards from scrimmage per game numbers vs. the other RBs with 10,000+ yards. He already ranks 13th in rushing yards and 1th (amoung RB) in yfs. It's not like he doesn't rank high on the all-time lists.IMO, it also seems a bit unfair to compare him to players that played into their 30s with you essentially forcing him to quit today.

 

[Koya]

Had he stayed in Indy, the answer would be a definate yes - because we would not be able to know whether his sick numbers were just the system, or a combination of system and HOF skills/talent/production.

That said, he DID leave Indy, and we can ALL see that he is not much outside of that system. Clearly...

No.