Edgerrin James and the Hall of Fame (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Had he stayed in Indy, the answer would be a definate yes - because we would not be able to know whether his sick numbers were just the system, or a combination of system and HOF skills/talent/production.That said, he DID leave Indy, and we can ALL see that he is not much outside of that system. Clearly...No.

James has rushed for 1222 and 1159 in his two years in Arizona. Here's how the leading rusher has done each year in Arizona pre-James:Shipp 451Smith 937Shipp 830Shipp 834Pittman 846Pittman 719Murrell 553Murrell 1042McElroy 424Johnson 634Hearst 1070Moore 780Moore 1018Johnson 734Johnson 666Johnson 926Ferrell 502Ferrell 924In both of his seasons in Arizona, Edge has trounced the yearly rushing totals of all the other Cardinals backs. Sure, his numbers were'nt as good as in Indy, but they were still light years better than the Cardinals had ever seen.

 

[Chase Stuart]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

By the bolded statement, you appear to be suggesting that the fact that Allen and Riggins have over 100 rushing TDs is enough to overcome their low YPCs to make them HOF worthy. Am I reading that correctly? Riggins has 116 total TDs, and Allen has 144. Edge has 88, but he should break 100. I'd say there is a chance he'll surpass 116, but he won't come close to 144.Let me ask you a direct question: do you think John Riggins is more worthy of the HOF than James?

I don't. But I also don't think that justifies getting another RB into the HOF either - each player should get in on his own merits.

More questions: do you think Bettis and Alexander will get into the HOF? Do you think each of them is more worthy than James?

I'm talking about Edge right now -- so at this point, Edge is far back on the rushing TD list.Riggins is interesting. When he retired he was the fourth all time leading rusher, behind just Payton, Brown and Harris. Dickerson and Dorsett passed him before he was inducted, but that's still pretty impressive. Sure, now he's 14th all time (right behind James), but I understand why he was inducted then, and he was a good inductee then as well. He also ended his career very well.

I think Bettis and Alexander have their points, but in the end, I think both fall behind James. I'm a big fan of Bettis, though, who seems to get unfairly criticized on these boards for how he ended his career.

 

[David Yudkin]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

By the bolded statement, you appear to be suggesting that the fact that Allen and Riggins have over 100 rushing TDs is enough to overcome their low YPCs to make them HOF worthy. Am I reading that correctly? Riggins has 116 total TDs, and Allen has 144. Edge has 88, but he should break 100. I'd say there is a chance he'll surpass 116, but he won't come close to 144.Let me ask you a direct question: do you think John Riggins is more worthy of the HOF than James?

I don't. But I also don't think that justifies getting another RB into the HOF either - each player should get in on his own merits.

More questions: do you think Bettis and Alexander will get into the HOF? Do you think each of them is more worthy than James?

I'm talking about Edge right now -- so at this point, Edge is far back on the rushing TD list.Riggins is interesting. When he retired he was the fourth all time leading rusher, behind just Payton, Brown and Harris. Dickerson and Dorsett passed him before he was inducted, but that's still pretty impressive. Sure, now he's 14th all time (right behind James), but I understand why he was inducted then, and he was a good inductee then as well. He also ended his career very well.

I think Bettis and Alexander have their points, but in the end, I think both fall behind James. I'm a big fan of Bettis, though, who seems to get unfairly criticized on these boards for how he ended his career.

i really can't devote a lot of time, but . . .He had 4 solid seasons and the rest were not even average. He didn't score many TD on a per sseason basis, many years had ypcs in the 3s, didn't rank very high in the main categories on a seasonal basis, and hardly ever caught a pass. The padding the stats his last 4 years is the perfect example of what I mentioned before.

Since we are on the RB kick, where does COrey Dillon fall in your analysis, because if you like Bettis you should love Dillon.

Chase, you are killing me. IMO, Bettis is far and away one of the WORST RB options for the HOF ever.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Had he stayed in Indy, the answer would be a definate yes - because we would not be able to know whether his sick numbers were just the system, or a combination of system and HOF skills/talent/production.That said, he DID leave Indy, and we can ALL see that he is not much outside of that system. Clearly...No.

James has rushed for 1222 and 1159 in his two years in Arizona. Here's how the leading rusher has done each year in Arizona pre-James:Shipp 451Smith 937Shipp 830Shipp 834Pittman 846Pittman 719Murrell 553Murrell 1042McElroy 424Johnson 634Hearst 1070Moore 780Moore 1018Johnson 734Johnson 666Johnson 926Ferrell 502Ferrell 924In both of his seasons in Arizona, Edge has trounced the yearly rushing totals of all the other Cardinals backs. Sure, his numbers were'nt as good as in Indy, but they were still light years better than the Cardinals had ever seen.

Sure, James' individual numbers are better... but that's not what the Cardinals care about the most.How about this list:Cardinals RBs the last fifteen years:

2007	366	1344	3.672006	377	1256	3.332005	297	885	2.982004	417	1509	3.622003	338	1160	3.432002	355	1464	4.122001	355	1246	3.512000	299	1100	3.681999	337	1051	3.121998	394	1408	3.571997	331	987	2.981996	360	1379	3.831995	362	1324	3.661994	432	1422	3.291993	413	1687	4.08	362	1281	3.53

Sure, James eats a lot of carries. But I don't think the Cardinals prefer James' 337-1159 to Marcel Shipp's 188-834 and Thomas Jones' 138-511. James eats a ton of carries, but who cares if he's not doing much with them, outside of fantasy players? If you want to avoid giving compilers credit, James' '06 and '07 season shouldn't be worth much at all in your eyes.

 

[dgreen]

Riggins is interesting. When he retired he was the fourth all time leading rusher, behind just Payton, Brown and Harris. Dickerson and Dorsett passed him before he was inducted, but that's still pretty impressive. Sure, now he's 14th all time (right behind James), but I understand why he was inducted then, and he was a good inductee then as well. He also ended his career very well.

Not to mention some top-notch postseason performances, including a SB MVP.

 

[Tau837]

22 RBs whose careers began in 1950 or later have been inducted into the HOF. 20 of them have a higher YPC average than Edgerrin James. The other two -- Marcus Allen and John Riggins -- both have over 100 rushing TDs. Of the three other guys above Edge's 4.07 YPC but under 4.20 YPC, you've got Franco Harris, Paul Hornung and Thurman Thomas. James has none of the plus factors that those guys have -- extra rings, multiple positions, or incredible receiver.

Edge has a very low YPC average, especially considering he's played on teams with great passing games most of his career. RBs with low YPC averages don't make the HOF unless they've got some special additional factor. Without a ton of TDs, receiving yards or rings, I think he's on the outside looking in.

By the bolded statement, you appear to be suggesting that the fact that Allen and Riggins have over 100 rushing TDs is enough to overcome their low YPCs to make them HOF worthy. Am I reading that correctly? Riggins has 116 total TDs, and Allen has 144. Edge has 88, but he should break 100. I'd say there is a chance he'll surpass 116, but he won't come close to 144.Let me ask you a direct question: do you think John Riggins is more worthy of the HOF than James?

I don't. But I also don't think that justifies getting another RB into the HOF either - each player should get in on his own merits.

More questions: do you think Bettis and Alexander will get into the HOF? Do you think each of them is more worthy than James?

I'm talking about Edge right now -- so at this point, Edge is far back on the rushing TD list.Riggins is interesting. When he retired he was the fourth all time leading rusher, behind just Payton, Brown and Harris. Dickerson and Dorsett passed him before he was inducted, but that's still pretty impressive. Sure, now he's 14th all time (right behind James), but I understand why he was inducted then, and he was a good inductee then as well. He also ended his career very well.

I think Bettis and Alexander have their points, but in the end, I think both fall behind James. I'm a big fan of Bettis, though, who seems to get unfairly criticized on these boards for how he ended his career.

I think Bettis deserves to make it and will make it. I have argued that point numerous times on this board. I think Alexander's TDs and MVP award make it tough to ignore him for HOF consideration, and I expect he'll also get in. I'd probably rank those two and James as Bettis, James, Alexander. But I know many feel Bettis is not deserving at all and would disagree.I think your whole approach of "Edge right now" kind of renders this type of discussion useless. The fact is that Edge is still playing, and without making an allowance for reasonable numbers going forward, you are unfairly biasing your analysis against him. For example, you mentioned that Martin and Bettis offset low ypc in part because both are in the top 5 in rushing yards all time. Well, James is less than 2500 yards behind Martin for 4th place, and less than 2100 behind Bettis for 5th place. I expect James will end up passing both of them, and ending his career in the top 5. To completely ignore where he will likely finish, while giving credit to others who played longer for their full careers, including their less productive final seasons, means you are comparing apples and oranges.

I will say that the fact that Edge has only 1 first team All Pro selection hurts. (Of course, so do Riggins, Martin, and Alexander, to name some others mentioned in this thread.)