Election Deniers Are Bad, Right? (1 Viewer)

[Rich Conway]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

 

[djmich]

then it's pretty hard to say the 2016 Democrat reaction is the same as the 2020 Republican reaction.

I think this is an important point.

I don't know anyone is trying to say they're the same. I'm certainly not.

My point was I did not realize so many ultra high profile people said repeatedly the 2016 election results were illegitimate. https://youtu.be/uoMfIkz7v6s

That was legit surprising to me to see the video clips.

I think there are a lot of people saying this.

Who? It’s impossible for them to be “the same”, might as well try to say two hurricanes were the same.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

This NPR article attempts to refute your assertion about McCabe:

Analysis | The Weak and Risky Case Against Andrew McCabe

Is the president pushing prosecutors to file charges they can’t make stick?

www.politico.com

I have no idea if he committed perjury or not but it sure seems like the whole thing is a lot more complicated than what you presented.

McCabe was Deputy Director of the FBI at the time Danshenko, an absolute key name in the Russia collusion hoax run from the FBI C-suite, informed FBI that the Steele dossier was nonsense and FBI then put him on payroll. McCabe knew who he was. There are FOIA'd govt docs, emails & texts proving such.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

So what? You think I have any love for the Republican Party?

 

[GordonGekko]

I realize some people think I'm insincere and playing "Tucker Carlson shtick". That's a disappointing accusation but those were two sincere questions.

Reading some of the replies, it seems like some people think I wrote the Taibbi article. Or it's my position. Or that I have an obligation to defend it.

But that's not at all what I'm doing. I had not seen the video clips that were part of the article, and I clearly asked other people what they thought.

I don't know how I can be more clear than that.

You have the most power to change the direction of any of the forums into a more positive direction.

If there is a "criticism" to be had for you, I'd assess it as that. I recognize what you are doing. When the board tends to have topics that lean one way ( usually hard radical left), you try to balance it out. For two years, you didn't have to do it as much as I was starting a thread topic nearly every 36 hours that was either Conservative leaning or Libertarian leaning.

There are people here in the PSF who are long term bad faith actors who don't raise the level of discussion and don't add anything into any discussion. Their behavior would get them permanently banned on just about any other community on the internet. If they roam free to drive away your good posters, it's because you've chosen to take an idle hand. When you aren't here, I'm guessing it's Tremblay, and he's biased hard left and none of the Conservatives here ( yes we talk in private) believe we are ever going to get a fair shake from him. But that's another larger issue.

If you want civil order in the discussion here, the only way to do it is to start banning people wholesale. When their aliases pop up, ban them too. You can delete and ban faster than they can re-register and post. Otherwise, if you are unwilling, then I don't see a point in the PSF's existence. I said this back in 2006, if people don't like what they are getting, give them nothing, see how they like that better.

And if you started clipping people, I fully believe you would see other people post in the PSF. People in the FFA who avoid it now and maybe some long time posters who add value might return. The PSF can be what you want it to be in an ideal sense, but requires some blood first.

I did my part for two years. I raised the level of discussion. I set a good example for the other Conservatives. I encouraged them to avoid whataboutism and just push for a path to create more high information voters. But presenting value is not rewarded here. I did that while being under constant attack. But when I was posting on a regular basis, more Conservatives and Republicans started posting too. I go about as far as I have to to defend the boundaries of Conservatives here, I tend to not go further than that. A lot of people like to mock the depth I go into, how I format, the way I structure my topics, but I do so for the EXACT reasons to avoid the kind of attacks you are getting now, and I still get attacked anyway. Just outright attacking people isn't the application of actual free speech.

Some people just can't be civilized. There are also some people here with clear IRL issues where enabling them to stay on the PSF is damaging their ability to go find help or heal. For some people here, the PSF is part of a toxic pathology for them. Letting them stay isn't actually helping them, it's hurting them.

I believe you'd be better off permanently deleting the PSF. I say that as someone who presented value to this part of the community for two years.

Barring that, if you want civil order here, then you have no choice but to start banning people whole sale.

Barring that, then just take let people take their gloves off. If there is no civil order, then have no moderation at all.

Otherwise, I'm going to start a new thread topic every 24 hours, never more than one in that time frame.

And I'm going to start using the Report Button. Never more than 3 times in a 24 hour period. So that's something that Conservatives here can do, just judiciously use the Report Button when it's warranted. If the same bad faith actors get 50 reports of their same BS, then maybe you'll see the benefit of starting to permanently banning some people.

Sometimes I hear you say, "Why can't people be better?", well here, no one has more power to enforce that here than you. I believe you have good intentions for this place and I believe you want high value practical political discussion as the standard. But you've also enabled the environment where it's not welcome here. What is happening is a "trade". You have effectively "traded" someone like Ivan K for the same number of bad faith trolls who do nothing to add to the discussion. This is no different than cities that are allowing crime to go out of control. Normal decent people leave. The city government in power is effectively trading the bad faith actors and toxic players for decent law abiding contributing members of that community. Ivan K didn't leave, you traded him. And the attacks you are getting this thread is what you got traded back for it.

If I knew you in another context, as just a fellow small business owner, and not associated with fantasy football or the NFL, I'd tell you the existence of the PSF is just bad business. Nothing good comes of it for your business and brand and it should be deleted entirely for your own sake. But that's your choice. My mentor used to always say a long time ago, when discussing the meaning of being at the ownership level - "If you refuse to take out the trash, don't expect sympathy when you sleep every night in filth"

To have good things, you are obligated to defend good things. If you refuse to defend it, then you didn't earn the good things you say you want. It's unpleasant, but it's the truth. I say many hard truths here and the majority of the Conservatives here listen to me. Your good intentions doesn't change that equation unfortunately.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Is there anyone arguing they're equal offenses?

No, some are saying 2016 was worse and caused J6.

Well, if those are the same people who are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen, that's not an opinion worth much to me.

 

[Rich Conway]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

So what? You think I have any love for the Republican Party?

Just trying to understand what you mean when you say "the left launched an investigation". If you actually meant "Republicans", then I guess it's a somewhat unusual use of "the left", but sure.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

So what? You think I have any love for the Republican Party?

Just trying to understand what you mean when you say "the left launched an investigation". If you actually meant "Republicans", then I guess it's a somewhat unusual use of "the left", but sure.

Where did I say left?

 

[djmich]

Is there anyone arguing they're equal offenses?

No, some are saying 2016 was worse and caused J6.

Well, if those are the same people who are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen, that's not an opinion worth much to me.

Some people are not worth engaging and are distractions from a legitimate discussion.

 

[Rich Conway]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

So what? You think I have any love for the Republican Party?

Just trying to understand what you mean when you say "the left launched an investigation". If you actually meant "Republicans", then I guess it's a somewhat unusual use of "the left", but sure.

Where did I say left?

I wrote: Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

You responded: I'm asserting that Democrats did yes...

 

[dkp993]

Is there anyone arguing they're equal offenses?

No, some are saying 2016 was worse and caused J6.

Well, if those are the same people who are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen, that's not an opinion worth much to me.

Some people are not worth engaging and are distractions from a legitimate discussion.

I thought I do a decent job of legitimate discussion.

 

[BladeRunner]

Is there anyone arguing they're equal offenses?

No, some are saying 2016 was worse and caused J6.

Well, if those are the same people who are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen, that's not an opinion worth much to me.

Some people are not worth engaging and are distractions from a legitimate discussion.

I thought I do a decent job of legitimate discussion.

I think you do if that's any consolation.

 

[Desert_Power]

"I don't believe we'll ever have a fair election again. I don't believe it" -- Donald Trump

 

[dkp993]

Is there anyone arguing they're equal offenses?

No, some are saying 2016 was worse and caused J6.

Well, if those are the same people who are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen, that's not an opinion worth much to me.

Some people are not worth engaging and are distractions from a legitimate discussion.

I thought I do a decent job of legitimate discussion.

I think you do if that's any consolation.

Thanks BR. Despite our occasional runs in you’re good people. But I was actually joking, I think (?*) dj does too and was referring to election deniers but his wording left an opening for me to mess around.



*granted my coffee hasn’t kicked in yet and maybe he was referring to me.

 

[djmich]

Is there anyone arguing they're equal offenses?

No, some are saying 2016 was worse and caused J6.

Well, if those are the same people who are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen, that's not an opinion worth much to me.

Some people are not worth engaging and are distractions from a legitimate discussion.

I thought I do a decent job of legitimate discussion.

I think you do if that's any consolation.

Thanks BR. Despite our occasional runs in you’re good people. But I was actually joking, I think (?*) dj does too and was referring to election deniers but his wording left an opening for me to mess around.



*granted my coffee hasn’t kicked in yet and maybe he was referring to me.

Correct! But the better question is do you get caught engaging the troll posts. I know it’s hard not too because that’s mostly all there is.

That’s what’s frustrating about this place, 60% of a thread is trolls and responses to trolls. Another 35% is people playing gotcha games (like hey that Colbert quote is not completely the right context so let’s spend the rest of the thread denying what happened in 2016).

The other 5% is something valuable, by someone like @IvanKaramazov, who wisely doesn’t waste his time here any longer.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

So what? You think I have any love for the Republican Party?

Just trying to understand what you mean when you say "the left launched an investigation". If you actually meant "Republicans", then I guess it's a somewhat unusual use of "the left", but sure.

Where did I say left?

I wrote: Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

You responded: I'm asserting that Democrats did yes.

Did the Mueller investigation not happen? There’s a several thousand post thread on it here.

I didn't want to assume that was the one you meant. Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

I’m asserting the Democrats did yes and there is endless proof they all knew the whole thing was fabricated. Andrew McCabe flat out lied when he testified he didn’t know who Igor Danchanko was.

Senator Kennedy: "Do you know who Igor Danchenko is?"

Andrew McCabe: "I do not."

They used to call this perjury.

Yu are aware that the investigation was started by Republicans, Mueller was a Republican, and that he was appointed by a Republican, right?

So what? You think I have any love for the Republican Party?

Just trying to understand what you mean when you say "the left launched an investigation". If you actually meant "Republicans", then I guess it's a somewhat unusual use of "the left", but sure.

Where did I say left?

I wrote: Are you asserting that "the left" launched that investigation?

You responded: I'm asserting that Democrats did yes...

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

 

[Rich Conway]

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

OK, but Democrats didn't do what you said. Republicans did. That was the point.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Both sides have plenty of hypocrisy and both sides accuse the other side of it, quite often rightfully so.

But it seems to me that ever since the start of the Trump political era, many conservatives have offered hypocrisy of liberals as their main and sometimes only justification for Trump’s behavior, and they cling to it almost desperately, perhaps so they can tell themselves “see? It’s all normal!”

Trump is your justification for all the liberal hypocrisy. We can do this all day long. Except I won't because I won't be here posting all day long

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

OK, but Democrats didn't do what you said. Republicans did. That was the point.

Bye Rich take your semantic game elsewhere.

 

[Amused to Death]

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

OK, but Democrats didn't do what you said. Republicans did. That was the point.

Bye Rich take your semantic game elsewhere.

You blame Dems for something the GOP started, but its semantics to call it out and correct it?

 

[Rich Conway]

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

OK, but Democrats didn't do what you said. Republicans did. That was the point.

Bye Rich take your semantic game elsewhere.

Or, you could say, "you're right, Democrats didn't do what I accused them of doing," but that would require honesty.

 

[Captain Cranks]

That’s what’s frustrating about this place, 60% of a thread is trolls and responses to trolls. Another 35% is people playing gotcha games (like hey that Colbert quote is not completely the right context so let’s spend the rest of the thread denying what happened in 2016).

Some people are hellbent on convincing others to see things their way despite resounding evidence that most will prefer to dig in their heels. If we just said our piece and moved on once it's obvious the other side is dug in, we'd have a lot more efficient conversations.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Hey, apparently I'm going to have a pregame field pass for Bills\Ravens today. Anything you want me to look out for? @Joe Bryant

Also, Joe, why I have your attention, do you have any thoughts on the 2 replies I posted to you directly in this thread about how the video is very well made propaganda that effectively shifts meaning of the video clips with the intent to equivocate 2016 election response with 2020 election response? As a reminder, from 2000 to 2003, I developed propaganda for the US Army and I'm quite familiar with it, and I feel like I have a bit more insight into what that video is than most here.

This is how propaganda works. Someone "innocently" throws out some fluff propaganda piece, and here we are discussing it 8 pages later. Anyone that was on these boards in 2016 knows there was no discussion of fraud at the voting booths. No court cases. No demands to look at the voting machines.

The original poster can act like he was just asking if you remember any of this, but the title of the thread suggests that there was an equivalency between 2016 and 2020. And add to the fact that we have seen these "I'm just curious because my MAGA friends are saying" posts.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think there is a lot of truth in what Gekko said, more specifically in how Joe handles this forum. I agree that Joe wants is best here, but the inmates continuing to run wild starts at the top. People can only act the fool repeatedly if you let them. I said it before and I will say it again: if someone gets temp-banned more than once for their behavior in this subforum, they are a net negative, plain and simple, and ought to be banned for good. Aside from Ivan K, SaintsinDome (sp?) was another top notch poster who seemingly ran away from this subforum. I don't know his reasons, but I am sure I can guess. When the good posters are leaving and the bad ones are staying, again, that starts at the top. In essence, the bad posters here are like the siblings who act up with no fear because they know that their mom isn't really going to take away dessert.

 

[jon_mx]

Comparing the last two elections is a textbook exercise in false equivalence. Republicans are making no bones about their intentions to jettison unfavorable election results under the pretense of fraud and a case before the Supreme Court is specifically designed to give red state legislatures the power to ignore their states' popular votes.

Somebody isn't paying attention if they don't see that the right has just about had its fill of democracy.

And someone ain't paying attention if they don't see the left has it its fill of freedom. I am so sick of the authoritarianism being pushed by leftist.

 

[the moops]

I am so sick of the authoritarianism being pushed by leftist.

You know what we are all sick of? Your ridiculous blanket statements about the left. We get it, you think anyone who is in any way associated with the left is the devil. You tell us over and over. Find something novel to discuss.

 

[(HULK)]

I am so sick of the authoritarianism being pushed by leftist.

You know what we are all sick of? Your ridiculous blanket statements about the left. We get it, you think anyone who is in any way associated with the left is the devil. You tell us over and over. Find something novel to discuss.

Reminds me of The Waterboy's mother, except replace foosball with leftists

 

[jon_mx]

I am so sick of the authoritarianism being pushed by leftist.

You know what we are all sick of? Your ridiculous blanket statements about the left. We get it, you think anyone who is in any way associated with the left is the devil. You tell us over and over. Find something novel to discuss.

The echo chamber pays zero attention to the crap they spew.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

OK, but Democrats didn't do what you said. Republicans did. That was the point.

Bye Rich take your semantic game elsewhere.

Or, you could say, "you're right, Democrats didn't do what I accused them of doing," but that would require honesty.

I never said the left I said Democrats but you know this.

OK, but Democrats didn't do what you said. Republicans did. That was the point.

Bye Rich take your semantic game elsewhere.

Or, you could say, "you're right, Democrats didn't do what I accused them of doing," but that would require honesty.

Here is what dishonesty looks like Rich. dishonesty is gaslighting the fact that the Dems have been publicly denying elections and crying about illegitimate elections for 20 years. Dishonesty is still being convinced that Trump was a Russian asset and that the dossier was factual. Dishonesty is thinking these video clips are taken out of context. Dishonesty is not believing Hunter Biden wasn’t selling access to his father and that that the laptop suppression wasn’t election interference. If me believing we are governed by a uni-party that felt threatened by Trump as they both continue to destroy the working class in the country make me a dishonest person in your view, so be it. I’ll wear it with a badge of honor.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Here is what dishonesty looks like Rich. dishonesty is gaslighting the fact that the Dems have been publicly denying elections and crying about illegitimate elections for 20 years. Dishonesty is still being convinced that Trump was a Russian asset and that the dossier was factual. Dishonesty is thinking these video clips are taken out of context. Dishonesty is not believing Hunter Biden wasn’t selling access to his father and that that the laptop suppression wasn’t election interference. If me believing we are governed by a uni-party that felt threatened by Trump as they both continue to destroy the working class in the country make me a dishonest person in your view, so be it. I’ll wear it with a badge of honor.

It is also being unwilling to say you mispoke or 'stand corrected' when you said the Left (or Democrats) were the ones that started the investigation. And then trying to confuse the matter by going into some diatribe about how the Dems have been so bad to Trump for the last 4 years.

Rich corrected you on an 'alternate fact' that you were trying to forward. It is OK to actually address it and say you got it wrong.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Here is what dishonesty looks like Rich. dishonesty is gaslighting the fact that the Dems have been publicly denying elections and crying about illegitimate elections for 20 years. Dishonesty is still being convinced that Trump was a Russian asset and that the dossier was factual. Dishonesty is thinking these video clips are taken out of context. Dishonesty is not believing Hunter Biden wasn’t selling access to his father and that that the laptop suppression wasn’t election interference. If me believing we are governed by a uni-party that felt threatened by Trump as they both continue to destroy the working class in the country make me a dishonest person in your view, so be it. I’ll wear it with a badge of honor.

It is also being unwilling to say you mispoke or 'stand corrected' when you said the Left (or Democrats) were the ones that started the investigation. And then trying to confuse the matter by going into some diatribe about how the Dems have been so bad to Trump for the last 4 years.

Rich corrected you on an 'alternate fact' that you were trying to forward. It is OK to actually address it and say you got it wrong.

OK Chaz you got me you can go back to your righty hate fest.

 

[BladeRunner]

Here is what dishonesty looks like Rich. dishonesty is gaslighting the fact that the Dems have been publicly denying elections and crying about illegitimate elections for 20 years. Dishonesty is still being convinced that Trump was a Russian asset and that the dossier was factual. Dishonesty is thinking these video clips are taken out of context. Dishonesty is not believing Hunter Biden wasn’t selling access to his father and that that the laptop suppression wasn’t election interference. If me believing we are governed by a uni-party that felt threatened by Trump as they both continue to destroy the working class in the country make me a dishonest person in your view, so be it. I’ll wear it with a badge of honor.

It is also being unwilling to say you mispoke or 'stand corrected' when you said the Left (or Democrats) were the ones that started the investigation. And then trying to confuse the matter by going into some diatribe about how the Dems have been so bad to Trump for the last 4 years.

Rich corrected you on an 'alternate fact' that you were trying to forward. It is OK to actually address it and say you got it wrong.

It's irrelevant. It's a distraction to the real arguments is what rich is doing. He's throwing up a smoke screen hoping people will forget what the real argument is, and that is that the left are a bunch of Hypocrites and have been denying elections just as much as those they are pointing fingers at - exactly like Phil said they were.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I know this is long but this whole interview is about how we have to vote against election deniers regardless of party and why we must. That is how I will be approaching the midterm election. On a lighter note it is great to hear Liz Cheney, a staunch conservative, giggle and hear the entire audience applaud.

'I won't be a Republican': Liz Cheney if Trump becomes presidential nominee

Wyoming GOP Rep. Liz Cheney said at The Texas Tribune festival Saturday that if former President Donald Trump becomes the Republican Party’s nominee for pres...

www.youtube.com

I'm sure Trump is working on a nickname for her right now.

 

[supermike80]

You can say you're "just asking questions" and trying to generate discussion, but this is the same stunt you always pull. As soon as anyone raises an actual question, you duck and run without answering.

I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe me when I say I was asking a question and hoping for discussion.

Or me posting is somehow a "stunt" I "always pull". Or "ducking and running". This isn't my thesis I was trying to defend. I posted an article and video and asked folks to discuss. I don't post much these days so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

That's a bummer to be accused of that and hear you feel that way but if you don't believe what I write is sincere, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Does Tucker Carlson know you're using his "Who me? I'm just asking questions." schtick?

In all seriousness, you've been asked repeatedly about the deceptive nature of the video you posted. You have yet to respond to those questions. It's been pointed out repeatedly that "Russia interfered" is not the same as "Republicans cheated" or "election deniers". You have yet to respond to that.

The way that comes across is that you aren't actually interested in serious discussion, but rather just interested in stirring the pot looking to inflame.

Dude. Let it go. Seriously. Little over obsessed about Joe. It's a discussion item. Move on. Jeez

 

[Captain Cranks]

I realize some people think I'm insincere and playing "Tucker Carlson shtick". That's a disappointing accusation but those were two sincere questions.

Reading some of the replies, it seems like some people think I wrote the Taibbi article. Or it's my position. Or that I have an obligation to defend it.

But that's not at all what I'm doing. I had not seen the video clips that were part of the article, and I clearly asked other people what they thought.

I don't know how I can be more clear than that.

You have the most power to change the direction of any of the forums into a more positive direction.

If there is a "criticism" to be had for you, I'd assess it as that. I recognize what you are doing. When the board tends to have topics that lean one way ( usually hard radical left), you try to balance it out. For two years, you didn't have to do it as much as I was starting a thread topic nearly every 36 hours that was either Conservative leaning or Libertarian leaning.

There are people here in the PSF who are long term bad faith actors who don't raise the level of discussion and don't add anything into any discussion. Their behavior would get them permanently banned on just about any other community on the internet. If they roam free to drive away your good posters, it's because you've chosen to take an idle hand. When you aren't here, I'm guessing it's Tremblay, and he's biased hard left and none of the Conservatives here ( yes we talk in private) believe we are ever going to get a fair shake from him. But that's another larger issue.

If you want civil order in the discussion here, the only way to do it is to start banning people wholesale. When their aliases pop up, ban them too. You can delete and ban faster than they can re-register and post. Otherwise, if you are unwilling, then I don't see a point in the PSF's existence. I said this back in 2006, if people don't like what they are getting, give them nothing, see how they like that better.

And if you started clipping people, I fully believe you would see other people post in the PSF. People in the FFA who avoid it now and maybe some long time posters who add value might return. The PSF can be what you want it to be in an ideal sense, but requires some blood first.

I did my part for two years. I raised the level of discussion. I set a good example for the other Conservatives. I encouraged them to avoid whataboutism and just push for a path to create more high information voters. But presenting value is not rewarded here. I did that while being under constant attack. But when I was posting on a regular basis, more Conservatives and Republicans started posting too. I go about as far as I have to to defend the boundaries of Conservatives here, I tend to not go further than that. A lot of people like to mock the depth I go into, how I format, the way I structure my topics, but I do so for the EXACT reasons to avoid the kind of attacks you are getting now, and I still get attacked anyway. Just outright attacking people isn't the application of actual free speech.

Some people just can't be civilized. There are also some people here with clear IRL issues where enabling them to stay on the PSF is damaging their ability to go find help or heal. For some people here, the PSF is part of a toxic pathology for them. Letting them stay isn't actually helping them, it's hurting them.

I believe you'd be better off permanently deleting the PSF. I say that as someone who presented value to this part of the community for two years.

Barring that, if you want civil order here, then you have no choice but to start banning people whole sale.

Barring that, then just take let people take their gloves off. If there is no civil order, then have no moderation at all.

Otherwise, I'm going to start a new thread topic every 24 hours, never more than one in that time frame.

And I'm going to start using the Report Button. Never more than 3 times in a 24 hour period. So that's something that Conservatives here can do, just judiciously use the Report Button when it's warranted. If the same bad faith actors get 50 reports of their same BS, then maybe you'll see the benefit of starting to permanently banning some people.

Sometimes I hear you say, "Why can't people be better?", well here, no one has more power to enforce that here than you. I believe you have good intentions for this place and I believe you want high value practical political discussion as the standard. But you've also enabled the environment where it's not welcome here. What is happening is a "trade". You have effectively "traded" someone like Ivan K for the same number of bad faith trolls who do nothing to add to the discussion. This is no different than cities that are allowing crime to go out of control. Normal decent people leave. The city government in power is effectively trading the bad faith actors and toxic players for decent law abiding contributing members of that community. Ivan K didn't leave, you traded him. And the attacks you are getting this thread is what you got traded back for it.

If I knew you in another context, as just a fellow small business owner, and not associated with fantasy football or the NFL, I'd tell you the existence of the PSF is just bad business. Nothing good comes of it for your business and brand and it should be deleted entirely for your own sake. But that's your choice. My mentor used to always say a long time ago, when discussing the meaning of being at the ownership level - "If you refuse to take out the trash, don't expect sympathy when you sleep every night in filth"

To have good things, you are obligated to defend good things. If you refuse to defend it, then you didn't earn the good things you say you want. It's unpleasant, but it's the truth. I say many hard truths here and the majority of the Conservatives here listen to me. Your good intentions doesn't change that equation unfortunately.

Joe could, and should, be more heavy handed in this forum's moderation. However, this forum is just a microcosm of the diseased political environment our country finds itself at this point in history.

No amount of moderation and banning is going to fix what really plagues our society: Tribalism and finger pointing without any self awareness, humility, or acknowledgement that we're part of the problem. We're right and they're wrong. They're corrupt and we're righteous. We're well informed while they're manipulated by propaganda.

Things are only going to get better when people quit blaming the other side and start figuring out how we can improve on an individual level. We're not adversaries. We simply allow the media and politicians to manipulate us as such. Cut them out of the equation, focus on ourselves and how we can improve, then the discourse of this place will improve.

 

[BladeRunner]

You can say you're "just asking questions" and trying to generate discussion, but this is the same stunt you always pull. As soon as anyone raises an actual question, you duck and run without answering.

I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe me when I say I was asking a question and hoping for discussion.

Or me posting is somehow a "stunt" I "always pull". Or "ducking and running". This isn't my thesis I was trying to defend. I posted an article and video and asked folks to discuss. I don't post much these days so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

That's a bummer to be accused of that and hear you feel that way but if you don't believe what I write is sincere, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Does Tucker Carlson know you're using his "Who me? I'm just asking questions." schtick?

In all seriousness, you've been asked repeatedly about the deceptive nature of the video you posted. You have yet to respond to those questions. It's been pointed out repeatedly that "Russia interfered" is not the same as "Republicans cheated" or "election deniers". You have yet to respond to that.

The way that comes across is that you aren't actually interested in serious discussion, but rather just interested in stirring the pot looking to inflame.

Dude. Let it go. Seriously. Little over obsessed about Joe. It's a discussion item. Move on. Jeez

You have to understand that Rich switched sides, so he has to go above and beyond in defense of his new side. Pushing limits and going further than everyone else on each and every issue is what will prove to his new tribe that he's really, really loyal. Although, we know side switchers are never fully trusted.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

There are people here in the PSF who are long term bad faith actors who don't raise the level of discussion and don't add anything into any discussion. Their behavior would get them permanently banned on just about any other community on the internet. If they roam free to drive away your good posters, it's because you've chosen to take an idle hand. When you aren't here, I'm guessing it's Tremblay, and he's biased hard left and none of the Conservatives here ( yes we talk in private) believe we are ever going to get a fair shake from him. But that's another larger issue.

I hope you are including people on all sides of the political spectrum here.

The assertation that Maurile is hard left is problematic at best. Its one of the main reasons people dont participate in this forum. The constant misguided labelling as hard left or hard right is beneath posters. If you have followed Maurile over the years he has many right wing traits and philosophies, but nuance is becoming a lost art. Even from those who are trying their best to make this forum work.

I did my part for two years. I raised the level of discussion. I set a good example for the other Conservatives. I encouraged them to avoid whataboutism and just push for a path to create more high information voters. But presenting value is not rewarded here. I did that while being under constant attack. But when I was posting on a regular basis, more Conservatives and Republicans started posting too. I go about as far as I have to to defend the boundaries of Conservatives here, I tend to not go further than that. A lot of people like to mock the depth I go into, how I format, the way I structure my topics, but I do so for the EXACT reasons to avoid the kind of attacks you are getting now, an

I dont dispute you have raised the level of discussion from the right here, but the occasional cheap shots and wall of information posted is just about impossible for any reasonable poster to participate in further discussion. You are obviously intelligent with a healthy self opinion, but how you come across to others isnt what you would be hoping for. I know you are trying to cover many facets and angles in your discussion points, but brevity is best. I know your intent is reasonably honest and i would rather have you here than not, but please think about why others have trouble engaging with you.

Some people just can't be civilized. There are also some people here with clear IRL issues where enabling them to stay on the PSF is damaging their ability to go find help or heal. For some people here, the PSF is part of a toxic pathology for them. Letting them stay isn't actually helping them, it's hurting them.

The gamut of posters here would indicate people at all stages of life, financial independence and mental well being. Just like society. Judging others is weak. Live the best life you can and attempt to build others up rather than bringing them down.

And I'm going to start using the Report Button. Never more than 3 times in a 24 hour period. So that's something that Conservatives here can do, just judiciously use the Report Button when it's warranted. If the same bad faith actors get 50 reports of their same BS, then maybe you'll see the benefit of starting to permanently banning some people.

It is reasonably well assumed that 80% plus of reports comes from the right wing posters, a couple in particular. I have no issue with that. Doesnt matter if it was 80% left leaning reporting, If someone thinks a poster is over the line, report it. Moderating on any forum wouldnt be fun, but its crucial for establishing and securing a place where honest discussion can not only live, but thrive.

In short, we all must he self aware enough to realize our flaws as people and posters on a political forum. Open dialog can only come if participants are open to having their minds changed. I learn many things in the political forum, some good, some bad. Increasing my knowledge is the point of constantly reading it. It is hard to read through a lot of posting that offers no thought, constant belittling or waving whichever tie you are wearing. We all make mistakes posting here. Being better is hard, but thinking how a good faith actor on all sides of the political spectrum reads your written thoughts should be front and center when you post. Otherwise its a waste of time and offering negative value.

 

[Rubiobot]

This is why KD is the best Trump guy on these boards

But he's no PS77.

 

[The General]

"I don't believe we'll ever have a fair election again. I don't believe it" -- Donald Trump

Except for the ones of the candidates he endorses. Those are the greatest elections we have ever seen.

 

[HomerSimpson]

I love all the posters on here who are like "Don't ever say anything bad about Donald Trump or you're a hippie, liberal, communist, Biden Bro Democrat and also a hypocrite." But then turn around and say "Well i didn't vote for Donald Trump, well i did, but only because Liberals made me, i don't support him and dont want him to run again.. but if he does i will vote for him, but only because you made me. I'm not a hypocrite".

You can literally switch out all the nouns for the opposite side and it would stay true. Maybe in the end .. most people just kinda suck. All of us included. But we are all Americans and are stuck with each other. So we try our best. We're all just a bunch of dudes who like football and have wayyyy too much free time to be posting on message boards~

 

[Rubiobot]

"I don't believe we'll ever have a fair election again. I don't believe it" -- Donald Trump

Unless he wins, of course.

 

[quick-hands]

Interesting that we’ve now moved beyond whataboutism to actually blaming Democrats for 1/6

well it is their fault. about time you got with it.

 

[jon_mx]

It is reasonably well assumed that 80% plus of reports comes from the right wing posters, a couple in particular.

Lol...there is really nothing assume. MT and Joe have both acknowledged that liberal posters by far do the vast majority of hitting the report button, like more than 6 to 1, so we are talking about 85 percent plus of the reports are done by those of your persuasion. This is really not shocking in the least since it is the left who screams and threatens and violently protests any speaker on college campuses who hold even the most tame conservative ideas. It is the left who uses Twitter, and Facebook, and YouTube platforms to silence conservative ideas. It is the left who cancels people and tries to get them fired from the jobs. It is the left who really can't handle an open discussion on issues so they seek to shutdown their opposition by any means necessary.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I love all the posters on here who are like "Don't ever say anything bad about Donald Trump or you're a hippie, liberal, communist, Biden Bro Democrat and also a hypocrite." But then turn around and say "Well i didn't vote for Donald Trump, well i did, but only because Liberals made me, i don't support him and dont want him to run again.. but if he does i will vote for him, but only because you made me. I'm not a hypocrite".

You can literally switch out all the nouns for the opposite side and it would stay true. Maybe in the end .. most people just kinda suck. All of us included. But we are all Americans and are stuck with each other. So we try our best. We're all just a bunch of dudes who like football and have wayyyy too much free time to be posting on message boards~

Nobody does this

 

[Philo Beddoe]

It is reasonably well assumed that 80% plus of reports comes from the right wing posters, a couple in particular.

Lol...there is really nothing assume. MT and Joe have both acknowledged that liberal posters by far do the vast majority of hitting the report button, like more than 6 to 1, so we are talking about 85 percent plus of the reports are done by those of your persuasion. This is really not shocking in the least since it is the left who screams and threatens and violently protests any speaker on college campuses who hold even the most tame conservative ideas. It is the left who uses Twitter, and Facebook, and YouTube platforms to silence conservative ideas. It is the left who cancels people and tries to get them fired from the jobs. It is the left who really can't handle an open discussion on issues so they seek to shutdown their opposition by any means necessary.

Yeah crazy take. I don’t report anyone but received a timeout for calling out one of the most ignorant posts I’ve ever seen here. The poster asserted a dictatorship could work in America if that dictator was someone like Bernie Sanders.

 

[HomerSimpson]

I love all the posters on here who are like "Don't ever say anything bad about Donald Trump or you're a hippie, liberal, communist, Biden Bro Democrat and also a hypocrite." But then turn around and say "Well i didn't vote for Donald Trump, well i did, but only because Liberals made me, i don't support him and dont want him to run again.. but if he does i will vote for him, but only because you made me. I'm not a hypocrite".

You can literally switch out all the nouns for the opposite side and it would stay true. Maybe in the end .. most people just kinda suck. All of us included. But we are all Americans and are stuck with each other. So we try our best. We're all just a bunch of dudes who like football and have wayyyy too much free time to be posting on message boards~

Nobody does this

In your opinion. I disagree.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I love all the posters on here who are like "Don't ever say anything bad about Donald Trump or you're a hippie, liberal, communist, Biden Bro Democrat and also a hypocrite." But then turn around and say "Well i didn't vote for Donald Trump, well i did, but only because Liberals made me, i don't support him and dont want him to run again.. but if he does i will vote for him, but only because you made me. I'm not a hypocrite".

You can literally switch out all the nouns for the opposite side and it would stay true. Maybe in the end .. most people just kinda suck. All of us included. But we are all Americans and are stuck with each other. So we try our best. We're all just a bunch of dudes who like football and have wayyyy too much free time to be posting on message boards~

Nobody does this

In your opinion. I disagree.

OK it shouldn’t be hard to link a few examples then?

 

[jon_mx]

It is reasonably well assumed that 80% plus of reports comes from the right wing posters, a couple in particular.

Lol...there is really nothing assume. MT and Joe have both acknowledged that liberal posters by far do the vast majority of hitting the report button, like more than 6 to 1, so we are talking about 85 percent plus of the reports are done by those of your persuasion. This is really not shocking in the least since it is the left who screams and threatens and violently protests any speaker on college campuses who hold even the most tame conservative ideas. It is the left who uses Twitter, and Facebook, and YouTube platforms to silence conservative ideas. It is the left who cancels people and tries to get them fired from the jobs. It is the left who really can't handle an open discussion on issues so they seek to shutdown their opposition by any means necessary.

Yeah crazy take. I don’t report anyone but received a timeout for calling out one of the most ignorant posts I’ve ever seen here. The poster asserted a dictatorship could work in America if that dictator was someone like Bernie Sanders.

Crazy take = 100 percent factual

 

[HomerSimpson]

I love all the posters on here who are like "Don't ever say anything bad about Donald Trump or you're a hippie, liberal, communist, Biden Bro Democrat and also a hypocrite." But then turn around and say "Well i didn't vote for Donald Trump, well i did, but only because Liberals made me, i don't support him and dont want him to run again.. but if he does i will vote for him, but only because you made me. I'm not a hypocrite".

You can literally switch out all the nouns for the opposite side and it would stay true. Maybe in the end .. most people just kinda suck. All of us included. But we are all Americans and are stuck with each other. So we try our best. We're all just a bunch of dudes who like football and have wayyyy too much free time to be posting on message boards~

Nobody does this

In your opinion. I disagree.

OK it shouldn’t be hard to link a few examples then?

I won’t because I believe what @Joe Bryant wants us to do on this board is give our opinions. And debate. And not call out other posters. So it’s ok if you dont agree with me. It’s just my opinion.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

It is reasonably well assumed that 80% plus of reports comes from the right wing posters, a couple in particular.

Lol...there is really nothing assume. MT and Joe have both acknowledged that liberal posters by far do the vast majority of hitting the report button, like more than 6 to 1, so we are talking about 85 percent plus of the reports are done by those of your persuasion. This is really not shocking in the least since it is the left who screams and threatens and violently protests any speaker on college campuses who hold even the most tame conservative ideas. It is the left who uses Twitter, and Facebook, and YouTube platforms to silence conservative ideas. It is the left who cancels people and tries to get them fired from the jobs. It is the left who really can't handle an open discussion on issues so they seek to shutdown their opposition by any means necessary.

Yeah crazy take. I don’t report anyone but received a timeout for calling out one of the most ignorant posts I’ve ever seen here. The poster asserted a dictatorship could work in America if that dictator was someone like Bernie Sanders.

Crazy take = 100 percent factual

I’m agreeing with you