Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (1 Viewer)

[BassNBrew]

So seems like these EVs went from holding their values amazingly to now the used prices plummeting. Whats causing this? Is the EV market becoming saturated? Do people not trust these cars long term (over 100k miles)? Will these price drops continue?

Over supply. Strong EV demand new under $33K, used under $25K.

The oversupply has to be in the used and not the new market, family ordered a new Y recently and it’s still like a. 3-4 month wait.

Must have ordered something unique because there's been stock here in Charlotte continously.

 

[matttyl]

So seems like these EVs went from holding their values amazingly to now the used prices plummeting. Whats causing this? Is the EV market becoming saturated? Do people not trust these cars long term (over 100k miles)? Will these price drops continue?

Over supply. Strong EV demand new under $33K, used under $25K.

The oversupply has to be in the used and not the new market, family ordered a new Y recently and it’s still like a. 3-4 month wait.

Must have ordered something unique because there's been stock here in Charlotte continously.

I think they just did “white on white” (interior/exterior) with no options at all. Just base/base with that color combo. Anyway, if there is an oversupply on new, with those low interest rates, and dropping prices (and a full tax credit), then prices for used have to do the same if they want to sell. Decent used teslas only a few years old under $25k is very doable now - I just dont know if these plummeting used prices will continue. If they get close to $20k that’s tough to say no to.

 

[BassNBrew]

So seems like these EVs went from holding their values amazingly to now the used prices plummeting. Whats causing this? Is the EV market becoming saturated? Do people not trust these cars long term (over 100k miles)? Will these price drops continue?

IMO it's improvements. Technology getting better faster than ICE vehicles makes the gap between now and used better. Also we are probably at the point where the adoption rate has has stalled. In my conversations with people they have no clue what an EV is or have in grained mis conceptions.

 

[culdeus]

Largest issues in EV adoption IMO is charging infrstructure:

• EV are best for home-dedicated L2 charging. These are no-brainer cheaper to operate and deal with than ICE.
• Apartments and multi family are not adding L2 charging in any quantity
• Fast Charging infrastructure is meant for road trips, not daily life. Also expensive.
• L1 charging at work places would be an improvement, not happening in any degree.

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

The costs are coming down, the China EV are really good and if they are allowed to import here it's going to change the whole calculus of this. A basic honda civic now costs what a BMW did 20 years ago. EVs will ultimately be cheaper to buy, without incentives.

 

[Tick]

So seems like these EVs went from holding their values amazingly to now the used prices plummeting. Whats causing this? Is the EV market becoming saturated? Do people not trust these cars long term (over 100k miles)? Will these price drops continue?

I thought it was Hertz selling off their Tesla fleet. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/who-wants-to-buy-30-000-used-teslas-from-hertz.html

 

[Ron Swanson]

Largest issues in EV adoption IMO is charging infrstructure:

• EV are best for home-dedicated L2 charging. These are no-brainer cheaper to operate and deal with than ICE.
• Apartments and multi family are not adding L2 charging in any quantity
• Fast Charging infrastructure is meant for road trips, not daily life. Also expensive.
• L1 charging at work places would be an improvement, not happening in any degree.

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

The costs are coming down, the China EV are really good and if they are allowed to import here it's going to change the whole calculus of this. A basic honda civic now costs what a BMW did 20 years ago. EVs will ultimately be cheaper to buy, without incentives.

This is spot on. And add to it that DC Fast Charging for makes other than Tesla has been super spotty and unreliable so a non-Tesla as a road trip vehicle wasn't for those not willing to do a fair amount of pre-planning. That's starting to change now with the other makers changing to NACS for charging and doing deals with Tesla to access their Supercharger network but it's still very early on and now Tesla has possibly neutered their charger expansion.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Almost a year in, my Bolt has been the best car I’ve owned. I’ve made a lot of stupid purchases in my life but dropping 21k on this wasn’t one of them. Zero issues, getting over 300 miles on a charge right now on all weather tires. Saved $2000 first year on gas/ maintenance expenses.

 

[SWC]

so i have read some stuff about people who bought the tesla cybertruck and it doesnt work out for them like not fitting in a garage or whatever and for some reason they are restricted from selling it what is that about i would appreciate insight from anyone in the know take that to the bank brochachos

 

[fruity pebbles]

so i have read some stuff about people who bought the tesla cybertruck and it doesnt work out for them like not fitting in a garage or whatever and for some reason they are restricted from selling it what is that about i would appreciate insight from anyone in the know take that to the bank brochachos

Clause in the cybertruck sale that you can’t sell it within the first year of purchase without permission from Tesla. If you do, you can be sued for 50 grand and barred from buying a Tesla again.

 

[matttyl]

So seems like these EVs went from holding their values amazingly to now the used prices plummeting. Whats causing this? Is the EV market becoming saturated? Do people not trust these cars long term (over 100k miles)? Will these price drops continue?

I thought it was Hertz selling off their Tesla fleet. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/who-wants-to-buy-30-000-used-teslas-from-hertz.html

I think that’s a piece of it, sure.

 

[SWC]

so i have read some stuff about people who bought the tesla cybertruck and it doesnt work out for them like not fitting in a garage or whatever and for some reason they are restricted from selling it what is that about i would appreciate insight from anyone in the know take that to the bank brochachos

Clause in the cybertruck sale that you can’t sell it within the first year of purchase without permission from Tesla. If you do, you can be sued for 50 grand and barred from buying a Tesla again.

why do they do that is that to prevent people from just buying them as investments or what take that to the bank brochachos

 

[massraider]

why do they do that is that to prevent people from just buying them as investments or what take that to the bank brochachos

Nah, nothing like that.

You know those parents that never enforced punishments? And the kids never learned their lesson?

Well, if you let these guys buy a Cybertruck and immediately make money, they aren't gonna learn a dang thing, will they?

This is tough love .

 

[culdeus]

why do they do that is that to prevent people from just buying them as investments or what take that to the bank brochachos

Nah, nothing like that.

You know those parents that never enforced punishments? And the kids never learned their lesson?

Well, if you let these guys buy a Cybertruck and immediately make money, they aren't gonna learn a dang thing, will they?

This is tough love .

High end cars with limited runs do this. The problem is the CT isn't that.

 

[SWC]

why do they do that is that to prevent people from just buying them as investments or what take that to the bank brochachos

Nah, nothing like that.

You know those parents that never enforced punishments? And the kids never learned their lesson?

Well, if you let these guys buy a Cybertruck and immediately make money, they aren't gonna learn a dang thing, will they?

This is tough love .

High end cars with limited runs do this. The problem is the CT isn't that.

how bout the pinto take that to the bank brochacho

 

[matttyl]

So lots and lots of used tesla 3s and Ys can now be found under $25k. That makes them eligible for (up to) an additional $4k tax credit. With that, your all in price can be at $20k for a 2-3 year old EV that still has years of expected life left. I’ve looked, but haven’t seen an end date for the used EV tax credit - is there one?

 

[RCon]

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

Is this for real? That is, batteries don't really degrade and need to be replaced every 60-100K miles?

 

[Nugget]

So lots and lots of used tesla 3s and Ys can now be found under $25k. That makes them eligible for (up to) an additional $4k tax credit. With that, your all in price can be at $20k for a 2-3 year old EV that still has years of expected life left. I’ve looked, but haven’t seen an end date for the used EV tax credit - is there one?

Haven’t seen an end date, but I imagine it won’t last long. Current income limits are lower than new - 75K single, 150K married. You may be eligible for additional credits for chargers through Fed (30%), state, and power companies.

 

[matttyl]

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

Is this for real? That is, batteries don't really degrade and need to be replaced every 60-100K miles?

Not generally, depends on how you use them. Keeping the charge between 20-80% can really extend the life of the battery to 10+ years. Charging to 100 and running it nearly all the way down will significantly shorten that.

 

[matttyl]

So lots and lots of used tesla 3s and Ys can now be found under $25k. That makes them eligible for (up to) an additional $4k tax credit. With that, your all in price can be at $20k for a 2-3 year old EV that still has years of expected life left. I’ve looked, but haven’t seen an end date for the used EV tax credit - is there one?

Haven’t seen an end date, but I imagine it won’t last long. Current income limits are lower than new - 75K single, 150K married. You may be eligible for additional credits for chargers through Fed (30%), state, and power companies.

The only thing I r seen is that you can only use it once every 3 years, and since it only started in 2023, means they plan for it to go through at least 2025, but no idea how much longer past that.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I'm going to drive my FIL/new wife's Tesla Y to the dealership today, because they're scared to do so. It's for an equally stupid reason: to get the front license plate installed, but whatever.

I've driven a 3 before. Anything different I need to know about the Y?

 

[the moops]

I'm going to drive my FIL/new wife's Tesla Y to the dealership today, because they're scared to do so. It's for an equally stupid reason: to get the front license plate installed, but whatever.

I've driven a 3 before. Anything different I need to know about the Y?

They are scared to drive their new car? And an EV is pretty much an EV. They aren’t all that different

 

[culdeus]

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

Is this for real? That is, batteries don't really degrade and need to be replaced every 60-100K miles?

Lol no. It's just ICE FUD. Model 3s are hitting the 100kmi with 8% deg on last gen battery tech. If this was a real thing every gen z person would be posting about it.

 

[BassNBrew]

So lots and lots of used tesla 3s and Ys can now be found under $25k. That makes them eligible for (up to) an additional $4k tax credit. With that, your all in price can be at $20k for a 2-3 year old EV that still has years of expected life left. I’ve looked, but haven’t seen an end date for the used EV tax credit - is there one?

Haven’t seen an end date, but I imagine it won’t last long. Current income limits are lower than new - 75K single, 150K married. You may be eligible for additional credits for chargers through Fed (30%), state, and power companies.

December 31, 2032

 

[BassNBrew]

So lots and lots of used tesla 3s and Ys can now be found under $25k. That makes them eligible for (up to) an additional $4k tax credit. With that, your all in price can be at $20k for a 2-3 year old EV that still has years of expected life left. I’ve looked, but haven’t seen an end date for the used EV tax credit - is there one?

I may pick one up just to drive for business at 67 cents a mile.

 

[Psychopav]

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

Is this for real? That is, batteries don't really degrade and need to be replaced every 60-100K miles?

Not generally, depends on how you use them. Keeping the charge between 20-80% can really extend the life of the battery to 10+ years. Charging to 100 and running it nearly all the way down will significantly shorten that.

I've seen stories that claim that even the 20-80 isn't that critical.

 

[Psychopav]

Wowsers! $70k 2023 EV with < 2,000 miles on it, now for sale for $27k. Obviously this particular car wouldn't be a purchase for the faint of heart but the price point on used EV's is starting to get awesome.

Every day I'm more happy with my decision to lease. I'm 1 year in to 3 years and loving most everything about my EV6.

 

[matttyl]

This sets aside a lot of the fake FUD from car makers that scare people that they have batteries that degrade (they don't), need replacement (they don't), or break late cycle (not really happening either). Even if you talk people off those fake cliffs, you still have to deal with the very real problem that if you don't have a house with a garage with L2 you are going to really really have to work to make the lifestyle as efficient.

Is this for real? That is, batteries don't really degrade and need to be replaced every 60-100K miles?

Not generally, depends on how you use them. Keeping the charge between 20-80% can really extend the life of the battery to 10+ years. Charging to 100 and running it nearly all the way down will significantly shorten that.

I've seen stories that claim that even the 20-80 isn't that critical.

With newer batteries, that’s true. Many of the originals (with Tesla for sure), the 80-20th or was the way to go.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I'm going to drive my FIL/new wife's Tesla Y to the dealership today, because they're scared to do so. It's for an equally stupid reason: to get the front license plate installed, but whatever.

I've driven a 3 before. Anything different I need to know about the Y?

They are scared to drive their new car? And an EV is pretty much an EV. They aren’t all that different

Yes, it's ridiculous, especially considering they bought the car within 24 hours of realizing it existed, after my FIL took his regular car in for routine maintenance. That was 2 weeks ago.

 

[the moops]

Wowsers! $70k 2023 EV with < 2,000 miles on it, now for sale for $27k. Obviously this particular car wouldn't be a purchase for the faint of heart but the price point on used EV's is starting to get awesome.

Every day I'm more happy with my decision to lease. I'm 1 year in to 3 years and loving most everything about my EV6.

Yea those Fiskers got issues but still a crazy price for it

 

[massraider]

Wowsers! $70k 2023 EV with < 2,000 miles on it, now for sale for $27k. Obviously this particular car wouldn't be a purchase for the faint of heart but the price point on used EV's is starting to get awesome.

Every day I'm more happy with my decision to lease. I'm 1 year in to 3 years and loving most everything about my EV6.

Yea those Fiskers got issues but still a crazy price for it

They just declared bankruptcy

 

[Buckna]

Wowsers! $70k 2023 EV with < 2,000 miles on it, now for sale for $27k. Obviously this particular car wouldn't be a purchase for the faint of heart but the price point on used EV's is starting to get awesome.

Every day I'm more happy with my decision to lease. I'm 1 year in to 3 years and loving most everything about my EV6.

Yea those Fiskers got issues but still a crazy price for it

They just declared bankruptcy

Yeah, Fiskar is dead. Parts were impossible to find for these even before bankruptcy. Supposedly they were resorting to cannibalizing new builds for warranty work, one reason they recently went belly up.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

why do they do that is that to prevent people from just buying them as investments or what take that to the bank brochachos

Nah, nothing like that.

You know those parents that never enforced punishments? And the kids never learned their lesson?

Well, if you let these guys buy a Cybertruck and immediately make money, they aren't gonna learn a dang thing, will they?

This is tough love .

High end cars with limited runs do this. The problem is the CT isn't that.

I mean, it's a low production run that is completely sold out. There is no doubt there would be people re-selling them for a premium if they didn't do this.

 

[matttyl]

So, teach me about Tesla superchargers. If/when I make the EV jump, it will likely be with a Tesla Y. Well over 90% of my charging will be done at home or a free charger near my office - but on longer road trips I’ll need to use the Tesla supercharger network.

Since non teslas can now use the Tesla super charger network - are the costs the same for those two vehicle types? Does it depend on the charger itself? There seems to be a pretty big range in kWh cost at different Tesla built superchargers which seems pretty off to me - but maybe I’m reading the pricing wrong.

 

[PlayaHata]

Wowsers! $70k 2023 EV with < 2,000 miles on it, now for sale for $27k. Obviously this particular car wouldn't be a purchase for the faint of heart but the price point on used EV's is starting to get awesome.

Every day I'm more happy with my decision to lease. I'm 1 year in to 3 years and loving most everything about my EV6.

Heavily researching EV6 (and to a lesser extent Ioniq 5 and Tesla Model Y) due to the crazy lease deals available right now. I have never owned an EV but feel like it might be time to pull the trigger given that 99% of my driving is local. I really need to go on some test drives ASAP.

 

[culdeus]

So, teach me about Tesla superchargers. If/when I make the EV jump, it will likely be with a Tesla Y. Well over 90% of my charging will be done at home or a free charger near my office - but on longer road trips I’ll need to use the Tesla supercharger network.

Since non teslas can now use the Tesla super charger network - are the costs the same for those two vehicle types? Does it depend on the charger itself? There seems to be a pretty big range in kWh cost at different Tesla built superchargers which seems pretty off to me - but maybe I’m reading the pricing wrong.

Tesla has passed their cost on. So depending on the utility cost will determine the rate.

Always better to look at real world estimate. A better route planner (abrp) can simulate the times and cost at every stop for any route and any car.

 

[culdeus]

So, teach me about Tesla superchargers. If/when I make the EV jump, it will likely be with a Tesla Y. Well over 90% of my charging will be done at home or a free charger near my office - but on longer road trips I’ll need to use the Tesla supercharger network.

Since non teslas can now use the Tesla super charger network - are the costs the same for those two vehicle types? Does it depend on the charger itself? There seems to be a pretty big range in kWh cost at different Tesla built superchargers which seems pretty off to me - but maybe I’m reading the pricing wrong.

Tesla has passed their cost on. So depending on the utility cost will determine the rate.

Always better to look at real world estimate. A better route planner (abrp) can simulate the times and cost at every stop for any route and any car.

Keep in mind that a sneaky benefit of a longer range is you don't have to supercharge past 80% either. It's those last 20% that can be more spendy. Abrp will try to compensate for this.

 

[culdeus]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Wowsers! $70k 2023 EV with < 2,000 miles on it, now for sale for $27k. Obviously this particular car wouldn't be a purchase for the faint of heart but the price point on used EV's is starting to get awesome.

Every day I'm more happy with my decision to lease. I'm 1 year in to 3 years and loving most everything about my EV6.

no one was rooting for Fisker more than me. i wouldn't touch that thing.

 

[BlackCrowes]

anyone know how to get a replacement key FOB for a 2016 model S? grrrrr.....

bump. been reading online and i don't think my model supports the new cards they are doing. can i just buy one online and program it myself? That seems like it would be too easy to counterfeit.

 

[culdeus]

anyone know how to get a replacement key FOB for a 2016 model S? grrrrr.....

bump. been reading online and i don't think my model supports the new cards they are doing. can i just buy one online and program it myself? That seems like it would be too easy to counterfeit.

There are 3rd parties that will do this for you, it's sketch as hell. I mean in theory pin to drive prevents anything like this from getting hacked.

 

[matttyl]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

 

[culdeus]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Superchargers won't save much vs gas. I suppose if gas gets to be 4+ maybe. It's not meant to be an every day thing.

Figuring out what the rates are I would abrp as it knows the schedule of rates by time.

Charging at home around 12c/kwh at 300whmi is pretty cheap.

 

[matttyl]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Superchargers won't save much vs gas. I suppose if gas gets to be 4+ maybe. It's not meant to be an every day thing.

Figuring out what the rates are I would abrp as it knows the schedule of rates by time.

Charging at home around 12c/kwh at 300whmi is pretty cheap.

Thanks. From my math my current gas car costs about $.13 per mile while an EV being charged at $.14/kwh (unless my provider does an overnight off peak) is about $.03 per mile. Supercharging is about even, so just for ease we might just take a gas vehicle for those road trips.

 

[BassNBrew]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Yes the main screen will show you rates. They vary by time of day (which it shows). For instance our local SC

Charging Fees for NACS EVs Owner12:00am - 4:00am$0.31/kWh4:00am - 11:00am$0.34/kWh11:00am - 7:00pm$0.55/kWh7:00pm - 11:00pm$0.49/kWh11:00pm - 12:00am$0.31/kWhIdle fees (up to)$1/min

Dang, these prices are up 50% this year.

 

[matttyl]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Yes the main screen will show you rates. They vary by time of day (which it shows). For instance our local SC

Charging Fees for NACS EVs Owner12:00am - 4:00am$0.31/kWh4:00am - 11:00am$0.34/kWh11:00am - 7:00pm$0.55/kWh7:00pm - 11:00pm$0.49/kWh11:00pm - 12:00am$0.31/kWhIdle fees (up to)$1/min

Dang, these prices are up 50% this year.

NACS = Tesla in this case? Just have to retrain my brain about buying “energy”. With gas they don’t care what you drive or when you fill up. It’s $x per gallon. Simple enough. With EVs it’s what type of car you have (potentially), what time it is, and what charger you’re using. The trade off is you can change at home for much less, which will be the vast majority of my charging.

 

[Instinctive]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Yes the main screen will show you rates. They vary by time of day (which it shows). For instance our local SC

Charging Fees for NACS EVs Owner12:00am - 4:00am$0.31/kWh4:00am - 11:00am$0.34/kWh11:00am - 7:00pm$0.55/kWh7:00pm - 11:00pm$0.49/kWh11:00pm - 12:00am$0.31/kWhIdle fees (up to)$1/min

Dang, these prices are up 50% this year.

NACS = Tesla in this case? Just have to retrain my brain about buying “energy”. With gas they don’t care what you drive or when you fill up. It’s $x per gallon. Simple enough. With EVs it’s what type of car you have (potentially), what time it is, and what charger you’re using. The trade off is you can change at home for much less, which will be the vast majority of my charging.

I'd challenge the assertion that they don't charge differently based on when you pull up. Gas in general changes price at the station around 36-48 hours after the price of oil changes and the next two days worth of gas for that station are purchased.

It's not to the hour, but you pay for changes in gas demand just like a place that does peak or off peak electricity rates.

 

[matttyl]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

 

[culdeus]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

Tesla removed performance changes at the ends of battery state of charge about six months back. Probably because they didn't accomplish anything. The exception is sentry mode at 20% that's still there.

 

[matttyl]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

Tesla removed performance changes at the ends of battery state of charge about six months back. Probably because they didn't accomplish anything. The exception is sentry mode at 20% that's still there.

I don’t mean performance difference from state of charge, I mean performance differences (acceleration, torque) from an aged/degraded battery. Does a battery with 90% “health”(if that’s the term to use) only have impacts on range, or would it also impact other characteristics?

 

[Psychopav]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

Tesla removed performance changes at the ends of battery state of charge about six months back. Probably because they didn't accomplish anything. The exception is sentry mode at 20% that's still there.

I don’t mean performance difference from state of charge, I mean performance differences (acceleration, torque) from an aged/degraded battery. Does a battery with 90% “health”(if that’s the term to use) only have impacts on range, or would it also impact other characteristics?

If there are other differences, I haven't read about them. I've just assumed they are not material but maybe I just haven't read enough yet...