TennesseeJed
Footballguy
Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot
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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter WampusCat43
- Start date
Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot
culdeus
Footballguy
Recall in this context seems so silly.
Nugget
Footballguy
Based on delivery method? It will be interesting to see if they have to go further and do hardware updates.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Saw one in downtown Austin last Saturday. looks Like the RV the cops used in Die HardHas anyone seen a Cybertruck out in the wild yet? I would have thought I would have, with all the Teslas on the road hereabouts, but nothing yet.
culdeus
Footballguy
Basically. Everytime apple does a bug fix we don't call it a recall.
They want the system to nag you more but I've ridden in a pallisade that you could take a nap in and does basically the same thing as AP. Tons of cars have basic lane follow now.
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
Well, when your phone has a bug, its not likely to kill you or others....
culdeus
Footballguy
You can spread FUD or get some level of understanding of what is happening here. The DOT isn't happy with the attention controls in the cabin. They want the same controls applied to AP as FSD. There is no safety risk being patched.
If worried about this look at the dozens of other cars with similar features with nearly zero driver controls and no way to get them.
General assumption they will institute the strike policy in FSD to AP and that's it. But people see recall and spread FUD.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
yeah not seeing this as a big deal
culdeus
Footballguy
But you didn't hear they RECLLLLlllEd every car ever?
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
I think you are taking this a bit personally...
Its a recall.
That gets people's attention - to take care of a potentially dangerous glitch. That is all that is going on here.
I am not really sure what "FUD" means - all I did was post a notice. I never speculated about whether this is unique to Tesla, or not. I assume if its a software glitch in other models - they will get a recall notice also.
There are lots of reasons not to get a Tesla, I would not put this as a reason on that list - if that help you.
culdeus
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
It’s a software update. Sending more driver nags doesn’t seem like a recall. I wish there was a recall for cars that have pe driving and texting
OrganizedChaos
Footballguy
Don't know if this is the right thread but I have a hybrid question. If people feel I need to start a new thread or post in a different one let me know. Looking to get a new SUV and have yet to decide on gas only, hybrid, or a plug-in hybrid. Possible candidates are Honda CRV or Toyota RAV4. One thing I saw today said that the engine in non-plug in hybrids turns off when stopped (although battery keeps running radio, A/C, etc.). If this is true, if you get in a bad traffic jam and movement is stopped, how long can it keep things running? Don't want to be stuck on a 100 degree summer day and it shuts off entirely. Would prefer plug-in hybrid but that would rule out the Honda and is the most expensive of the three options.
Chaos34
Footballguy
I've been stuck in a hybrid in full accident-related freeway gridlock on a 110 degree day. When the battery gets too low the gas engine will start up and keep things working. I've had plug-in and non plug-in Fusions. Both surprisingly really good trouble free cars, but I much prefer the plug-in as I rarely burn a drop of gas around town.
OrganizedChaos
Footballguy
Thank you for the reply. That is exactly the information I was hoping to hear.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
It won't be interesting, because they won't.
Sand
Footballguy
Tesla: highest accident rate in the US. Car or driver? Or just because peeps in California have no idea how to drive?
www.cnbc.com
Bit-of-an-aside-corrollary - BMW drivers highest DUI rate in the US (double the next highest car).
Neither is a surprise.
Tesla drivers had highest accident rate, BMW drivers highest DUI rate, study finds
Tesla drivers had 24 accidents per 1,000 drivers during the period from mid-November 2022 to mid-November 2023, according to a study by Lending Tree.
Bit-of-an-aside-corrollary - BMW drivers highest DUI rate in the US (double the next highest car).
Neither is a surprise.
D-Day
Footballguy
This data i based off of INSURANCE QUOTES. Garbage in—garbage out. So someone who perhaps owns a Tesla had an accident. Was the accident IN the Tesla? Were they at fault? Click bait.Tesla: highest accident rate in the US. Car or driver? Or just because peeps in California have no idea how to drive?
Tesla drivers had highest accident rate, BMW drivers highest DUI rate, study finds
Tesla drivers had 24 accidents per 1,000 drivers during the period from mid-November 2022 to mid-November 2023, according to a study by Lending Tree.
Bit-of-an-aside-corrollary - BMW drivers highest DUI rate in the US (double the next highest car).
Neither is a surprise.
massraider
Footballguy
Between the cost to repair, and the accident rate for Teslas, insurance companies are going to fall for that clickbait.
The recall issue has been a good way to illustrate.
I've had several vehicles recalled. They've ranged from being minor to serious. All have been embarrassing for the manufacturer and inconvenient for me as I've had to take the vehicle into the dealership and spend time dealing it. Recalls are a serious inconvenience for the customer.
In this case, "2 million cars recalled!" makes for an awesome headline if you don't like EVs or Elon Musk. But the reality is this is a minor issue for every customer.
I've had several vehicles recalled. They've ranged from being minor to serious. All have been embarrassing for the manufacturer and inconvenient for me as I've had to take the vehicle into the dealership and spend time dealing it. Recalls are a serious inconvenience for the customer.
In this case, "2 million cars recalled!" makes for an awesome headline if you don't like EVs or Elon Musk. But the reality is this is a minor issue for every customer.
massraider
Footballguy
Recalls happen.
It's unusual for them to happen to fix the "Auto Pilot" after a bunch of deadly crashes
This is not a loose nut on an engine mount.
Kind of a big deal, I like drivers who pay attention when driving. And while it is the driver's fault, calling things Full Self-Driving and Auto Pilot kind of give people a false sense of security.
This was a 2 year investigation, not a witch hunt by Musk haters on Reddit.
It's unusual for them to happen to fix the "Auto Pilot" after a bunch of deadly crashes
This is not a loose nut on an engine mount.
Kind of a big deal, I like drivers who pay attention when driving. And while it is the driver's fault, calling things Full Self-Driving and Auto Pilot kind of give people a false sense of security.
This was a 2 year investigation, not a witch hunt by Musk haters on Reddit.
culdeus
Footballguy
While we don't know what the fix is there is good speculation they will simply apply the strike system to AP in the same way it is for FSD. No other vehicle with similar tech has any strike system whatsoever or any detection at all for defeat mechanisms.
The Rivian products know if your hands aren't on the wheel and a water bottle in the steering spoke doesn't seem to work.
culdeus
Footballguy
But they don't count up the strikes like Tesla does. If you get detected to be not paying attention X so many times in Y days you can't use it
Actually I think this does more harm than good. The Tesla rentals I was driving turning off the lane departure warning after a certain number of hits. That's probably to get you to upgrade by $6000 or $12000, but not int he interest of safety IMO.
culdeus
Footballguy
I think this recall nearly certainly does more harm than good. They had to do something to appease the Saudis though.
Speaking of safety....
stories.rivian.com
I didn't realize the Rivian made an external sound when approaching pedestrians and cyclists.
After month I have to say this is the most well thought out vehicle I've ever sat in.
The Sounds of Rivian - Rivian Stories | Electric Vehicle Adventures
How nature inspired our audio ecosystem
stories.rivian.com
I didn't realize the Rivian made an external sound when approaching pedestrians and cyclists.
After month I have to say this is the most well thought out vehicle I've ever sat in.
Speaking of safety....
The Sounds of Rivian - Rivian Stories | Electric Vehicle Adventures
How nature inspired our audio ecosystem
I didn't realize the Rivian made an external sound when approaching pedestrians and cyclists.
After month I have to say this is the most well thought out vehicle I've ever sat in.
What's the story behind people making Rivian? What seems to be the driving force and what is important to them? Who are they and what's their history?
Last edited:
From an interview with CEOSpeaking of safety....
The Sounds of Rivian - Rivian Stories | Electric Vehicle Adventures
How nature inspired our audio ecosystem
I didn't realize the Rivian made an external sound when approaching pedestrians and cyclists.
After month I have to say this is the most well thought out vehicle I've ever sat in.
What's the story behind people making Rivian? What seems to be the driving force and what is important to them? Who are they and what's their history?
Our society tends to view people with obsessions as weird. Do you think everyone should have one?
I think indifference is a real challenge to society’s progress. I was deeply passionate about cars and transportation. Then as I got older, I realized these things I loved and grew up dreaming about—from a very young age, I would have windshields and engines in my room—were the source of so many of our macro challenges as society. Everything from the vast majority of wars, to the fact that every major city in the world has air quality issues largely as a result of cars, to climate change. It led me to say, “Well, can I be a helpful participant in driving some of the change we need to see?” Which of course led to me creating Rivian.
There are two ways to go about your business. One is to be boastful and puff yourself up. That works in business and politics. You have Elon and Trump. And then the other way is to be quiet. You’ve been the latter. Why pick that route?
You have to be authentic to who you are. My baseline is understated. I’m not by any means shy, but I’d rather put my head down and focus on execution. And I think one of the big challenges we have as a society is that there’s so much noise in the system. And there’s a lot of hype. There’s a lot of digital bullying of all sorts. As a company, we want to represent something different. And we want to make sure we’re focused on results.
The reason Rivian was created, and the reason we’re working hard, is to create products that shift mindsets and to create incredible experiences. Not to build something that in any way is trying to create polarization or trying to say “us versus them.” The scale of the challenge we have in terms of transitioning to sustainable energy is enormous, and this is not the time to be throwing stones.
Not only are you trying to get cars off the line, you’re dealing with a company that’s gone public during COVID with the supply chain crises and you don’t seem frazzled. What’s your secret?
This is so much easier than 2010 and 2011. We couldn’t make payroll. Like every other week, we were running out of cash. And we had 14, 15, 20 employees and we’re trying to start a car company. That’s hard. Today we have products people love, we have a clear line of sight to profitability. We’re ramping up, and the next product has been developed by this incredible team.
We started setting up our plant in February of 2020. You couldn’t have picked a worse time. Imagine installing a billion and a half dollars worth of equipment starting in February 2020. We had to be creative. And then immediately after getting all the equipment installed, we had this massive supply chain shortage, which basically meant we had a plant that we couldn’t run. And it’s very public—we are a public company, so we got punched in the face, so to speak, in front of everyone. But that was okay. Like, we got through it.
Wait, you’re saying that that was the chill part?
That was hard, but I knew it was gonna be hard. You don’t start a production plant in a car company thinking it’s going to be a walk on the beach. It’s going to be hard. If you want to join a company where you’re walking on a paved path, and there’s a cool breeze, and the sun’s in just the right spot, this isn’t that company. If you want to join a place where you’re going to be climbing up the side of a mountain, there’s no trail markers, and sometimes you grab a rock and the rock pulls out and you’re like, Oh, damn, what do I hold on to now? So it’s exciting, it’s invigorating, it’s going to stretch you. If you go in with that mindset, that’s a totally different outcome.
The 2024 Best Vehicle Brand Winners
To determine the award winners, U.S. News Best Cars averaged the overall score of all the given brand's products in each award class. The brand with the highest average score was designated the winner in that specific category. The overall scores are derived from the U.S. News Best Cars rankings, which take into account safety ratings, reliability data and the collective opinion of the automotive press.
To determine the award winners, U.S. News Best Cars averaged the overall score of all the given brand's products in each award class. The brand with the highest average score was designated the winner in that specific category. The overall scores are derived from the U.S. News Best Cars rankings, which take into account safety ratings, reliability data and the collective opinion of the automotive press.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I mean the Chevy Bolt does that too lolSpeaking of safety....
The Sounds of Rivian - Rivian Stories | Electric Vehicle Adventures
How nature inspired our audio ecosystem
I didn't realize the Rivian made an external sound when approaching pedestrians and cyclists.
After month I have to say this is the most well thought out vehicle I've ever sat in.
From an interview with CEOSpeaking of safety....
The Sounds of Rivian - Rivian Stories | Electric Vehicle Adventures
How nature inspired our audio ecosystem
I didn't realize the Rivian made an external sound when approaching pedestrians and cyclists.
After month I have to say this is the most well thought out vehicle I've ever sat in.
What's the story behind people making Rivian? What seems to be the driving force and what is important to them? Who are they and what's their history?
Our society tends to view people with obsessions as weird. Do you think everyone should have one?
I think indifference is a real challenge to society’s progress. I was deeply passionate about cars and transportation. Then as I got older, I realized these things I loved and grew up dreaming about—from a very young age, I would have windshields and engines in my room—were the source of so many of our macro challenges as society. Everything from the vast majority of wars, to the fact that every major city in the world has air quality issues largely as a result of cars, to climate change. It led me to say, “Well, can I be a helpful participant in driving some of the change we need to see?” Which of course led to me creating Rivian.
There are two ways to go about your business. One is to be boastful and puff yourself up. That works in business and politics. You have Elon and Trump. And then the other way is to be quiet. You’ve been the latter. Why pick that route?
You have to be authentic to who you are. My baseline is understated. I’m not by any means shy, but I’d rather put my head down and focus on execution. And I think one of the big challenges we have as a society is that there’s so much noise in the system. And there’s a lot of hype. There’s a lot of digital bullying of all sorts. As a company, we want to represent something different. And we want to make sure we’re focused on results.
The reason Rivian was created, and the reason we’re working hard, is to create products that shift mindsets and to create incredible experiences. Not to build something that in any way is trying to create polarization or trying to say “us versus them.” The scale of the challenge we have in terms of transitioning to sustainable energy is enormous, and this is not the time to be throwing stones.
Not only are you trying to get cars off the line, you’re dealing with a company that’s gone public during COVID with the supply chain crises and you don’t seem frazzled. What’s your secret?
This is so much easier than 2010 and 2011. We couldn’t make payroll. Like every other week, we were running out of cash. And we had 14, 15, 20 employees and we’re trying to start a car company. That’s hard. Today we have products people love, we have a clear line of sight to profitability. We’re ramping up, and the next product has been developed by this incredible team.
We started setting up our plant in February of 2020. You couldn’t have picked a worse time. Imagine installing a billion and a half dollars worth of equipment starting in February 2020. We had to be creative. And then immediately after getting all the equipment installed, we had this massive supply chain shortage, which basically meant we had a plant that we couldn’t run. And it’s very public—we are a public company, so we got punched in the face, so to speak, in front of everyone. But that was okay. Like, we got through it.
Wait, you’re saying that that was the chill part?
That was hard, but I knew it was gonna be hard. You don’t start a production plant in a car company thinking it’s going to be a walk on the beach. It’s going to be hard. If you want to join a company where you’re walking on a paved path, and there’s a cool breeze, and the sun’s in just the right spot, this isn’t that company. If you want to join a place where you’re going to be climbing up the side of a mountain, there’s no trail markers, and sometimes you grab a rock and the rock pulls out and you’re like, Oh, damn, what do I hold on to now? So it’s exciting, it’s invigorating, it’s going to stretch you. If you go in with that mindset, that’s a totally different outcome.
Thanks. They're still hemorrhaging money, though, right? Or has that changed? https://www.motortrend.com/news/rivian-loss-per-vehicle/
I do like the looks of the Rivian RS1 SUV.
My primary fear with them is sinking so much money into what feels like a startup company.
My primary fear with them is sinking so much money into what feels like a startup company.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Ford backed them for awhile too, but I think they backed out.
Sorry guys...it's happening...err....happened
Amazon announced a significant expansion of its electric delivery van fleet from Rivian at an event in Seattle on Tuesday afternoon.
Details: The company says it now has 10,000 of its co-created vehicles — with a range of up to 150 miles — on roads in the U.S. covering 1,800 cities. The fleet, launched last summer, is now double the size that it was in July.
Amazon announced a significant expansion of its electric delivery van fleet from Rivian at an event in Seattle on Tuesday afternoon.
Details: The company says it now has 10,000 of its co-created vehicles — with a range of up to 150 miles — on roads in the U.S. covering 1,800 cities. The fleet, launched last summer, is now double the size that it was in July.
- In addition, Amazon says it now has 12,000 chargers for its vehicles at over 100 delivery stations.
- Over 20,000 drivers have been trained around the country to drive the Rivians.
- Globally, Amazon has 279,000 delivery drivers dropping off 20 million packages a day.
- Tracking the speed and scale of its progress is key to helping electric utilities plan for the future, as they bulk up their own capabilities to meet upcoming energy demand as logistics operators and automakers move away from gas-powered vehicles, experts tell Axios.
- Decarbonizing transportation — the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S. — through electric vehicles is one of the key actions to helping the country meet its net-zero emissions target by 2050.
“Bellwether” for transition
The utility industry is "very interested" in understanding where electrified transportation patterns of cars, buses and trucks are going to show up on the grid, because they can show up anywhere — such as highways and rural farmlands, Britta Gross, director of transportation for EPRI, an independent, non-profit energy research and development institute, tells Axios.- "As a leading logistics provider, [Amazon can] send clear demand signals to the entire utility industry" about what they need in coming years so that the grid operators can prepare in advance, she says.
- "No one can react in days or weeks."
- Transportation and electric power have "lived in separate silos" so Amazon is acting like a "bellwether" for the overall transition to electric vehicles, says Kellen Schefter, senior director of electric transportation at Edison Electric Institute, a trade association for investor-owned electric companies in the U.S.
- Carmakers and logistics providers meeting early with electric companies about their plans, like Amazon has, will be critical to maintaining the reliability of the grid, he adds.
- One of the benefits that Amazon has is its many locations, which helps inform capacity, he says.
- "We really want to share progress ... because it continues to demonstrate [that] we're actively working across some of the hardest parts of our fulfillment network," Kara Hurst, Amazon's head of worldwide sustainability, tells Axios exclusively ahead of the news.
- Currently, 450 other companies have also signed onto the climate pledge, which aims to increase transparency, partnerships and infrastructure development, she adds.
- (As a major investor in Rivian, Amazon also has a stake in its success.)
- "Our fastest delivery speeds actually come with the lowest emissions, because those are sales that are actually happening much closer to the customer," Udit Madan, Amazon's vice president of transportation, who tries to drive routes quarterly, tells Axios.
- Long-haul trucking electrification is another difficult part of the transportation transition, as they carry so many goods and battery range still being an issue, says Madan.
- "Our goal is a completely zero-emissions fleet. We may very well have a range of solutions, but we think the vast majority of the fleet will be electric," says Madan.
- But size and scale are key to the kind of large transformational change needed to achieve the Paris Agreement's stretch goal of holding temperature rise to 1.5°C above preindustrial levels.
- My household alone composting feverishly or agonizing over packaging decisions isn't going to do it.
- "In sustainability, which I can speak to, we are very welcome at all the tables because the scale that we bring is so important," says Hurst.
While that is a concern, there's no shortage of innovation. They are not acting like a company going anywhere. I've had my truck for three weeks and in that time I got software upgrades to improve highway "assist/auto steer", allow me to adjust my auto wiper strokes per minute to a speed I like, improvements to the brake regeneration in the cold and on long downhills (as well as numerous other upgrades). I'll do a detailed review later, but this vehicle hasn't just exceeded my expectations, it has absolutely crushed them. I wouldn't want to work from home because commuting is one of the highlights of the day.
Lastly, the CEO with a PHD in engineering is going all in on the next phase....
Great. So picking an EV, you get to align with Saudis, Bezos or Musk. 
The General
Footballguy
You can go with the Germans - Audi or BMWGreat. So picking an EV, you get to align with Saudis, Bezos or Musk.
Nothing in their history.
The General
Footballguy
Wife inherited a BMW i3 this summer.
This is a tiny car and has been discontinued but is the perfect car for driving around town. Not sure how it is going to be to maintain but so far zero issues and we use it all the time any trip under 100 miles.
This is a tiny car and has been discontinued but is the perfect car for driving around town. Not sure how it is going to be to maintain but so far zero issues and we use it all the time any trip under 100 miles.
culdeus
Footballguy
BMW will forever regret stying this differently than the 3 series. The rex was innovative and they just styled it like some sort of clown car with bicycle tires. This was the first EV I worked on directly. Was a lot of fun to interface with that team.
The 3 series is completely off the radar now. I don't even know what they look like. Model 3 and S wiped out the 3 and 5 series. They were everywhere around here before Tesla.
The General
Footballguy
It is a ridiculous looking car from the outside (I don’t think it’s ugly necessarily just odd) and those tires are absurd
.I’m fairly tall and for two people it is somehow pretty roomy inside and the interior design/aesthetic is very nice . I have a 2019 Model 3 and I prefer this car’s interior TBH.
Value wise though I can see why it got destroyed by Tesla. I believe it cost more when it came out and Tesla speed and the software integration is way, way better.
We consider selling it but the price on them is low and after driving it for a couple weeks it is a very nice option for commuting (wife drives it now over a small SUV) and we use it for all trips around town because it fits everywhere.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
That is not terribly surprising.
We picked up a EV-Hybrid rental when our car was in the shop - we ended up keeping the car for over 3 months due to the time for parts/repairs, but never used the EV - only used gas - because I did not want to sign up for a charging station provider for just a short-term use (If I had known it would take 3 months, I probably would have created an account). If you figure most rentals are a fews days to a week - nobody wants the hassle of charging, unless they already have an EV.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Not its whole fleet, right? About 1/3rd of it I think.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Makes sense. There was a thread here where folks were predicting EV adoptions rates in the US in the near future.
Everybody bet the "over" and lost.
US can't support widespread EV's and consumers don't want them.
Toyota was criticized for not going all in on EV's. Of course, they were right.
The manufacturers that did go all in are paying a heavy price. God help any Ford dealers that kowtowed to Ford's demands to dump millions into EV infrastructure. Maybe they can dump all those Mach E's, and maybe get enough to buy a bag of peanuts.
massraider
Footballguy
Not yet and not yet.
I don't wan't one, but 5-10 year from now? The speed of the adoption was grossly overestimated, but when they improve the network, and sort the battery replacement thing......
Still early days for this tech.
