Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (5 Viewers)

[Bob Sacamano]

I think it's bizarre that so many people want combustion engines to "win."

I guess people are afraid of change/advancement?

Where are you getting that vibe? I dont see a single post about being afraid of enhancement. I just see dialogue between what people think is currently possible vs what is actually currently possible

Do you own a Tesla? There are def people who hate them. Usually in large trucks with a specific type of sticker/flag affixed.

I do not—but I know several people that do, and have driven and ridden in them several times. They are great vehicles and I certainly have no issue with them or people that really love them. For me personally, I think that advancements need and should be made for both ICE and electric vehicles. I’m from California—and while I am for people getting and supporting electric vehicles—I am not of the camp that ICE vehicles should be shunned or phased out completely. A TON of money and technology has gone into electric vehicles the past 10 years. I also think that there will be a lot of unintended consequences if we go too far electric. The vehicles weigh a lot more on average and will wear down our infrastructure (roads, bridges, highways, parking structures, electrical grids..etc) at an accelerated rate. Electric cars also wear through tires a lot more quickly than ICE counterparts—and rubber runoff from tires is one of the biggest pollutants of ocean waters. Effectively, there is a good chance that the benefit of the reduction in air pollution from electric vehicles can be countered by an increase of water pollution. For myself personally—I would like to see as much money and effort put into both types of vehicles to maximize the efficiency of both. I would bet that if 25-35% of the money that went into developing and improving electric vehicles over the past 5-10 years went into improving the efficiency of ICE vehicles—we would see a very noticeable improvement in those as well. I certainly understand that some people just like the feel of electric or ICE vehicles better—but I don’t really understand why anybody would be rooting for improvements or advancements in either to fail. Just seems like improvements in either or both would be good for society as a whole.

I'm sure there's a reason, but I'm not sure why hybrid technology isn't the way to go and not more sought after. It's the best of both worlds.

You have a smaller battery with a limited range of 30-40 miles. And you have an ICE engine that kicks in after the battery is out. For most people the vast majority of the time, you can run fully electric. Charge at home, rarely have to worry about any gas. But, have a long trip? You can fill up and have normal range and not have range anxiety.

PHEV

It's also the worst of both worlds.

 

[TennesseeJed]

I think it's bizarre that so many people want combustion engines to "win."

I guess people are afraid of change/advancement?

Where are you getting that vibe? I dont see a single post about being afraid of enhancement. I just see dialogue between what people think is currently possible vs what is actually currently possible

Do you own a Tesla? There are def people who hate them. Usually in large trucks with a specific type of sticker/flag affixed.

I do not—but I know several people that do, and have driven and ridden in them several times. They are great vehicles and I certainly have no issue with them or people that really love them. For me personally, I think that advancements need and should be made for both ICE and electric vehicles. I’m from California—and while I am for people getting and supporting electric vehicles—I am not of the camp that ICE vehicles should be shunned or phased out completely. A TON of money and technology has gone into electric vehicles the past 10 years. I also think that there will be a lot of unintended consequences if we go too far electric. The vehicles weigh a lot more on average and will wear down our infrastructure (roads, bridges, highways, parking structures, electrical grids..etc) at an accelerated rate. Electric cars also wear through tires a lot more quickly than ICE counterparts—and rubber runoff from tires is one of the biggest pollutants of ocean waters. Effectively, there is a good chance that the benefit of the reduction in air pollution from electric vehicles can be countered by an increase of water pollution. For myself personally—I would like to see as much money and effort put into both types of vehicles to maximize the efficiency of both. I would bet that if 25-35% of the money that went into developing and improving electric vehicles over the past 5-10 years went into improving the efficiency of ICE vehicles—we would see a very noticeable improvement in those as well. I certainly understand that some people just like the feel of electric or ICE vehicles better—but I don’t really understand why anybody would be rooting for improvements or advancements in either to fail. Just seems like improvements in either or both would be good for society as a whole.

I'm sure there's a reason, but I'm not sure why hybrid technology isn't the way to go and not more sought after. It's the best of both worlds.

You have a smaller battery with a limited range of 30-40 miles. And you have an ICE engine that kicks in after the battery is out. For most people the vast majority of the time, you can run fully electric. Charge at home, rarely have to worry about any gas. But, have a long trip? You can fill up and have normal range and not have range anxiety.

PHEV

It's also the worst of both worlds.

A tale of two Engines?

 

[ericttspikes]

Hertz is selling off a their EV fleet.

That is not terribly surprising.

It's not just unsurprising, it's standard operations for all large rental car companies. My first job after college was with Hertz' parent company in the auditing dept. Selling the fleet before 30k miles was a huge part of the operation. 20k Teslas hitting the market? Less than 600 currently available? I would expect bigger numbers tbh. That bit is a non-story and calling it selling off their fleet is sensationalizing a common practice.

The pertinent part of the story is EVs are typically a poor choice for a rental. The hassle of charging while traveling and learning the touch screen are inconvenient for most rental applications. They also get the Camaro/Mustang treatment for idgits who want to rent something fast to abuse, so no kidding repairs are an issue. I would advise someone considering an EV to rent one for a few days though. They are the future.

I read alot of people would rent and use them as Uber cars. Which is kinda brilliant since I rented a model 3 from Hertz and it was dirt cheap, $49 a day. I saw some of the inventory for sale and they didn’t seem like great values for how many miles and the fact they were probably beat on.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Hertz is selling off a their EV fleet.

That is not terribly surprising.

It's not just unsurprising, it's standard operations for all large rental car companies. My first job after college was with Hertz' parent company in the auditing dept. Selling the fleet before 30k miles was a huge part of the operation. 20k Teslas hitting the market? Less than 600 currently available? I would expect bigger numbers tbh. That bit is a non-story and calling it selling off their fleet is sensationalizing a common practice.

The pertinent part of the story is EVs are typically a poor choice for a rental. The hassle of charging while traveling and learning the touch screen are inconvenient for most rental applications. They also get the Camaro/Mustang treatment for idgits who want to rent something fast to abuse, so no kidding repairs are an issue. I would advise someone considering an EV to rent one for a few days though. They are the future.

I read alot of people would rent and use them as Uber cars. Which is kinda brilliant since I rented a model 3 from Hertz and it was dirt cheap, $49 a day. I saw some of the inventory for sale and they didn’t seem like great values for how many miles and the fact they were probably beat on.

Yeah me neither. The Bolts started at about 23k. Granted they were 2023s with around 11-12k miles so pretty new but that’s no cheaper than when it was new with the rebates.

 

[ericttspikes]

My neighbor has an older model S with 100,000 miles and Telsa offered him 6k. Was shocked at that. I’ve seen Honda Accords with similar miles cost 3x that. I get that he would do better in a private sale but surprised Tesla valued it so low. They’d have all the data on what it’s worth. Made him really nervous about the battery life expectancy over 100k.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think it's bizarre that so many people want combustion engines to "win."

I guess people are afraid of change/advancement?

Where are you getting that vibe? I dont see a single post about being afraid of enhancement. I just see dialogue between what people think is currently possible vs what is actually currently possible

Do you own a Tesla? There are def people who hate them. Usually in large trucks with a specific type of sticker/flag affixed.

I do not—but I know several people that do, and have driven and ridden in them several times. They are great vehicles and I certainly have no issue with them or people that really love them. For me personally, I think that advancements need and should be made for both ICE and electric vehicles. I’m from California—and while I am for people getting and supporting electric vehicles—I am not of the camp that ICE vehicles should be shunned or phased out completely. A TON of money and technology has gone into electric vehicles the past 10 years. I also think that there will be a lot of unintended consequences if we go too far electric. The vehicles weigh a lot more on average and will wear down our infrastructure (roads, bridges, highways, parking structures, electrical grids..etc) at an accelerated rate. Electric cars also wear through tires a lot more quickly than ICE counterparts—and rubber runoff from tires is one of the biggest pollutants of ocean waters. Effectively, there is a good chance that the benefit of the reduction in air pollution from electric vehicles can be countered by an increase of water pollution. For myself personally—I would like to see as much money and effort put into both types of vehicles to maximize the efficiency of both. I would bet that if 25-35% of the money that went into developing and improving electric vehicles over the past 5-10 years went into improving the efficiency of ICE vehicles—we would see a very noticeable improvement in those as well. I certainly understand that some people just like the feel of electric or ICE vehicles better—but I don’t really understand why anybody would be rooting for improvements or advancements in either to fail. Just seems like improvements in either or both would be good for society as a whole.

I have no idea if this is correct or not, but I would assume there is some pretty serious diminishing returns in trying to increase the efficiency of ICEs since we've already milked most of that efficiency and are nearing the limit of how efficient they can be. They've been mainstream for over a century now and money/time has been poured into bettering their efficiency all along the way. There's only so much more that can be done.

Compared to EVs which I think we can all agree are probably nowhere NEAR their maximum efficiency right now. Something like solid state batteries if they could figure those out would double the range and halve the weight overnight.

There is just naturally a much larger return on a time/money investment early in a product's life cycle than in one that's already been refined by an entire massive industry for the majority of it's lifecycle.

I'm for whatever advancements we can make, regardless of source. If hydrogen cars are practical (without the looming threat of, you know, fiery death), let's do it.

I'm just amused by the speed with which some seem to want to bury the EV. Go pick up an ICE car circa 1900 and tell me all the ways it's like current models. These things are infants. Keep looking other places, but give them a chance to crawl. Equally amusing is the, "EVs are trash, but Elon Musk is the most awesome genius ever" tapdance.

 

[beer 30]

I'm just amused by the speed with which some seem to want to bury the EV. Go pick up an ICE car circa 1900 and tell me all the ways it's like current models. These things are infants. Keep looking other places, but give them a chance to crawl. Equally amusing is the, "EVs are trash, but Elon Musk is the most awesome genius ever" tapdance.

I think it's a little different with the EV revolution though. The precious metals needed to construct our current version of society which is heavily battery dependent makes it very difficult from a sustainability perspective. Yes I'm aware advances are being made but they aren't coming fast enough to meet the stated goals of every environmentally conscious government of moving everything to electric by 20XX. We can't get there given the natural resources available. That's kinda my hang up on it.

And the folks who have control of the natural resources aren't exactly what I'd call stand up players on the world stage. Geopolitically, we're placing ourselves at a disadvantage by being beholden to these folks for the stuff that makes our world go. See chip shortages during COVID if you want a recent example of how crippling it can be and that wasn't much more than inconvenience.

 

[the moops]

And the folks who have control of the natural resources aren't exactly what I'd call stand up players on the world stage. Geopolitically, we're placing ourselves at a disadvantage by being beholden to these folks for the stuff that makes our world go. See chip shortages during COVID if you want a recent example of how crippling it can be and that wasn't much more than inconvenience.

I mean we were beholden to the middle east for oil...so kinda screwed in that respect either way

 

[Terminalxylem]

We rented a Tesla once. It was easy as can be to pull into a grocery store parking lot and charge while shopping. I think some people are just looking for an excuse

It's still much easier to plug in at night. Hotels don't all have this option. SCs now at 250kw fixes some of this issue and Tesla mostly had cars capable of those speeds.

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't designed a "solar" panel on the roof that will self charge the cars. They do something like that where you don't even need to stop and charge and they'll sell like hot cakes.

Current best case panels are really only capable of 2-4 kwh at a car scale. Thing is that's is probably enough for a lot of people, but it's been near impossible to convince some that 200 mile ranges are adequate.

Not even close to that right now. The maximum solar energy put out by the sun is something like 1kwh Per square meter. Current solar panels are maybe 25-30% efficient in capturing that energy—which means 0.25kwh per square meter (roughly 10 square feet). To get 4kwh out of a car—you’d need 160 square feet of solar panels that happen to be in a position to where they are absorbing the suns energy at optimal levels.

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So they just need to make solar panels more efficient.

They should evolve like computers.

Did you watch the clip? I’m no expert—but even if they made them super efficient—the maximum amount of energy put out by the sun even if you capture 100% is 1kwh per square meter. Most cars don’t have the surface area to make even capturing all of that a reality in order to run completely independently. The maximum output is when the sun is at a 90 degree angle to the solar panels. This would generally mean only a fraction of a vehicles solar panels would be absorbing energy optimally even if they were perfectly designed. Again—I’m no expert—but the dude that has done more research and has contributed the most in the world in regards to electric vehicles is the person explaining this.

What do you think about Aptera?

I don’t know much about them—but it seems more motorcycle than car. It’s a 3 wheeled, tiny 2 seater car, that would not be feasible for families. It also is not purely solar. You can plug it in—and in 24 hours—it gets about 150 miles of charge when plugged in. When exposed to the sun—(maybe 8 hours a day)—it nets about 5 miles of range per hour exposed to the sun. I would bet that the vast majority of people that get the Apterra would be using the plug in charge feature—so I‘m not sure I would call that a ”pure” solar powered car. At the end of the day—it has a plug in feature where the plug in generates far more range, far more quickly than its solar capability can.

Thanks for the detailed reply - where did you get the charging #s?

I realize it’s not for everybody, but for people living in sunny environments, 40 miles/day exposure is plenty for average commutes. If the tech improves just a little, plug-in/PV hybrids may not be too far-fetched.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I'm just amused by the speed with which some seem to want to bury the EV. Go pick up an ICE car circa 1900 and tell me all the ways it's like current models. These things are infants. Keep looking other places, but give them a chance to crawl. Equally amusing is the, "EVs are trash, but Elon Musk is the most awesome genius ever" tapdance.

I think it's a little different with the EV revolution though. The precious metals needed to construct our current version of society which is heavily battery dependent makes it very difficult from a sustainability perspective. Yes I'm aware advances are being made but they aren't coming fast enough to meet the stated goals of every environmentally conscious government of moving everything to electric by 20XX. We can't get there given the natural resources available. That's kinda my hang up on it.

And the folks who have control of the natural resources aren't exactly what I'd call stand up players on the world stage. Geopolitically, we're placing ourselves at a disadvantage by being beholden to these folks for the stuff that makes our world go. See chip shortages during COVID if you want a recent example of how crippling it can be and that wasn't much more than inconvenience.

As opposed to oil, which single-handedly keeps the middle east and Russia as major players on the world stage?

The the former point, you make some fair points, but they have to be taken with context. EVs aren't nearly as sustainable yet as the impression we were originally given due to those reasons among others. But even with all those faults, they're still ALREADY more sustainable than ICEs, and that's with the technology still at the very beginning of its development curve compared to ICEs where developed technology is already near the end of that curve.

This is a pretty good video on it from Wendover Productions, focusing on the major problems with EV batteries, but still stipulating at the end of the video that even with all those problems it is still already a good bit better than ICEs with plenty more advancements to be made.

Electric Vehicles' Battery Problem

Use code WENDOVER16 for up to 16 FREE MEALS + 3 Surprise Gifts across 6 HelloFresh boxes plus free shipping at https://bit.ly/3ekejvZWatch Extremities at htt...

www.youtube.com

So yea, it's not perfect, but it's already better than what we currently have, and that gap will only widen even further as advancements continue to be made in EVs whereas advancements in ICEs are mostly maxed out already.

 

[Sand]

I believe they were saying it might add something like 10-15 miles to the range, which isn't worth the extra cost/complexity.

That would mean for my commute I'd never have to touch a charger. I think I read the average trip is 8 miles? IMO, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[culdeus]

The natural point for solar is long term parking lot parking, sell surplus to the grid and DC charge EV that are present. Slapped on top of car roofs makes little sense.

Has anyone actually tried to make something that can be stored in a trunk and not have to be part of the structure?

 

[the moops]

I believe they were saying it might add something like 10-15 miles to the range, which isn't worth the extra cost/complexity.

That would mean for my commute I'd never have to touch a charger. I think I read the average trip is 8 miles? IMO, it makes a lot of sense.

Yea, it seems like sometimes we get stuck in the mentality that unless it is perfect, or a complete replacement, it isn't worth it. A 10-15 mile range increase may seem insignificant, but when we actually look at miles driven that is a substantial # for many people

 

[belljr]

I think owning and electric commuter and a gas traveler is the best of both worlds.

Yes I know you can travel and plan with electric but when we drive over 8 hours we don't make a stop longer than probably 15 minutes

 

[the moops]

Has anyone actually tried to make something that can be stored in a trunk and not have to be part of the structure?

Good question. We have a very small array that folds up into our trunk for our little pop up camper. It is just the size of a small flat suitcase, but that only charges a typical RV/car battery so not sure what the size would need to be to charge EV batteries

 

[the moops]

I think owning and electric commuter and a gas traveler is the best of both worlds.

Yes I know you can travel and plan with electric but when we drive over 8 hours we don't make a stop longer than probably 15 minutes

This where we are at. Ideally we actually would have our EV and instead of the gas mini van that mini van would be a plug in hybrid.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think owning and electric commuter and a gas traveler is the best of both worlds.

Yes I know you can travel and plan with electric but when we drive over 8 hours we don't make a stop longer than probably 15 minutes

Unless you travel a ton it seems like it would be more economical to just rent a travel vehicle when you have a long trip. This might be what I end up doing for a large travel vehicle since the 3-row SUVs are still so new/expensive. I may just buy something smaller (model 3 or something) and when we want to take a big long trip with the grandparents and the dog and the golf clubs and the bikes I'll just rent a big Ford Expedition or something.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I think owning and electric commuter and a gas traveler is the best of both worlds.

Yes I know you can travel and plan with electric but when we drive over 8 hours we don't make a stop longer than probably 15 minutes

Unless you travel a ton it seems like it would be more economical to just rent a travel vehicle when you have a long trip. This might be what I end up doing for a large travel vehicle since the 3-row SUVs are still so new/expensive. I may just buy something smaller (model 3 or something) and when we want to take a big long trip with the grandparents and the dog and the golf clubs and the bikes I'll just rent a big Ford Expedition or something.

Basically what I do except I have a friend with an SUV and I just swap cars once a year or so.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

We rented a Tesla once. It was easy as can be to pull into a grocery store parking lot and charge while shopping. I think some people are just looking for an excuse

It's still much easier to plug in at night. Hotels don't all have this option. SCs now at 250kw fixes some of this issue and Tesla mostly had cars capable of those speeds.

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't designed a "solar" panel on the roof that will self charge the cars. They do something like that where you don't even need to stop and charge and they'll sell like hot cakes.

Current best case panels are really only capable of 2-4 kwh at a car scale. Thing is that's is probably enough for a lot of people, but it's been near impossible to convince some that 200 mile ranges are adequate.

Not even close to that right now. The maximum solar energy put out by the sun is something like 1kwh Per square meter. Current solar panels are maybe 25-30% efficient in capturing that energy—which means 0.25kwh per square meter (roughly 10 square feet). To get 4kwh out of a car—you’d need 160 square feet of solar panels that happen to be in a position to where they are absorbing the suns energy at optimal levels.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

So they just need to make solar panels more efficient.

They should evolve like computers.

Did you watch the clip? I’m no expert—but even if they made them super efficient—the maximum amount of energy put out by the sun even if you capture 100% is 1kwh per square meter. Most cars don’t have the surface area to make even capturing all of that a reality in order to run completely independently. The maximum output is when the sun is at a 90 degree angle to the solar panels. This would generally mean only a fraction of a vehicles solar panels would be absorbing energy optimally even if they were perfectly designed. Again—I’m no expert—but the dude that has done more research and has contributed the most in the world in regards to electric vehicles is the person explaining this.

What do you think about Aptera?

I don’t know much about them—but it seems more motorcycle than car. It’s a 3 wheeled, tiny 2 seater car, that would not be feasible for families. It also is not purely solar. You can plug it in—and in 24 hours—it gets about 150 miles of charge when plugged in. When exposed to the sun—(maybe 8 hours a day)—it nets about 5 miles of range per hour exposed to the sun. I would bet that the vast majority of people that get the Apterra would be using the plug in charge feature—so I‘m not sure I would call that a ”pure” solar powered car. At the end of the day—it has a plug in feature where the plug in generates far more range, far more quickly than its solar capability can.

Thanks for the detailed reply - where did you get the charging #s?

I realize it’s not for everybody, but for people living in sunny environments, 40 miles/day exposure is plenty for average commutes. If the tech improves just a little, plug-in/PV hybrids may not be too far-fetched.

I didn’t know much about them—but I got most of the stats/numbers from this clip. It looks like a fun ride—and for people that live in sunny environoments that don’t generally have long commutes—it could make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PU4DQoQAWY

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm just amused by the speed with which some seem to want to bury the EV. Go pick up an ICE car circa 1900 and tell me all the ways it's like current models. These things are infants. Keep looking other places, but give them a chance to crawl. Equally amusing is the, "EVs are trash, but Elon Musk is the most awesome genius ever" tapdance.

I think it's a little different with the EV revolution though. The precious metals needed to construct our current version of society which is heavily battery dependent makes it very difficult from a sustainability perspective. Yes I'm aware advances are being made but they aren't coming fast enough to meet the stated goals of every environmentally conscious government of moving everything to electric by 20XX. We can't get there given the natural resources available. That's kinda my hang up on it.

And the folks who have control of the natural resources aren't exactly what I'd call stand up players on the world stage. Geopolitically, we're placing ourselves at a disadvantage by being beholden to these folks for the stuff that makes our world go. See chip shortages during COVID if you want a recent example of how crippling it can be and that wasn't much more than inconvenience.

I also think a fair amount of that is aspirational. MPG targets moved quite a bit iirc, as they got closer to being required. Hell, we've moved back travel ID dates every other year for like a decade.

 

[culdeus]

I think owning and electric commuter and a gas traveler is the best of both worlds.

Yes I know you can travel and plan with electric but when we drive over 8 hours we don't make a stop longer than probably 15 minutes

Unless you travel a ton it seems like it would be more economical to just rent a travel vehicle when you have a long trip. This might be what I end up doing for a large travel vehicle since the 3-row SUVs are still so new/expensive. I may just buy something smaller (model 3 or something) and when we want to take a big long trip with the grandparents and the dog and the golf clubs and the bikes I'll just rent a big Ford Expedition or something.

People let you turo unlimited miles some very nice giant cars.

 

[Psychopav]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

On the other hand, I charged my car to 100% last night, just in case the Texas power grid decides to crap out for a few days. Handy to have a giant battery in my garage that I could run an extension cord from into the house to power cell phones, lights, etc. if needed. I didn't have that a couple years back when the grid went down here.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

On the other hand, I charged my car to 100% last night, just in case the Texas power grid decides to crap out for a few days. Handy to have a giant battery in my garage that I could run an extension cord from into the house to power cell phones, lights, etc. if needed. I didn't have that a couple years back when the grid went down here.

I can't imagine reading the comments why people might think some hate EVs.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

What a god-awful article.

Not a lot of details here. These people returned from trips and the batteries had run down?

 

[belljr]

I think owning and electric commuter and a gas traveler is the best of both worlds.

Yes I know you can travel and plan with electric but when we drive over 8 hours we don't make a stop longer than probably 15 minutes

Unless you travel a ton it seems like it would be more economical to just rent a travel vehicle when you have a long trip. This might be what I end up doing for a large travel vehicle since the 3-row SUVs are still so new/expensive. I may just buy something smaller (model 3 or something) and when we want to take a big long trip with the grandparents and the dog and the golf clubs and the bikes I'll just rent a big Ford Expedition or something.

Sure. We don't travel as much as we did, used to be 3-4 times a year at that distance But I already own the SUV but we go to the beach and stuff often. I'm sure that could be done with an electric SUV eventually

 

[culdeus]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

What a god-awful article.

Not a lot of details here. These people returned from trips and the batteries had run down?

The supercharger broke. People drove there to charge and more or less were stuck.

 

[culdeus]

Due to the snow storm they recently received and the sub zero temps. The temps cause the handles to fall out of the holsters and into the snow. The pins get filled with snow/ice and the connector can’t be used.

 

[the moops]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

On the other hand, I charged my car to 100% last night, just in case the Texas power grid decides to crap out for a few days. Handy to have a giant battery in my garage that I could run an extension cord from into the house to power cell phones, lights, etc. if needed. I didn't have that a couple years back when the grid went down here.

I can't imagine reading the comments why people might think some hate EVs.

I honestly didn’t know comment sections on webpages were still a thing. Wish i was still in the dark. My god those are bad

 

[Da Guru]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

What a god-awful article.

Not a lot of details here. These people returned from trips and the batteries had run down?

I am in the auto business, problems in sub-zero weather with some batteries and charger systems have been a known issue. Personally, I would not take an EV on a trip. In the weather conditions right now there is no way.. Hybrid? Yes.

 

[the moops]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

What a god-awful article.

Not a lot of details here. These people returned from trips and the batteries had run down?

I am in the auto business, problems in sub-zero weather with some batteries and charger systems have been a known issue. Personally, I would not take an EV on a trip. In the weather conditions right now there is no way.. Hybrid? Yes.

What do you mean by trip? Like to a different city or a multi day thing?

 

[gianmarco]

I'll post here a little bit later, but basically just did our first road trip this weekend in the EV with these stupid temps. It was an experience but it worked out.

 

[massraider]

I honestly didn’t know comment sections on webpages were still a thing. Wish i was still in the dark. My god those are bad

Only comments worth reading are under the @mugshawtys account on Instagram.

 

[Jobber]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

What a god-awful article.

Not a lot of details here. These people returned from trips and the batteries had run down?

I doubt that was it. We had our WV parked for a full week at the airport in Minneapolis in some dead *** cold weather. Didn’t even lose a percent.

 

[gianmarco]

So, we are a month and a half into ownership of our VW ID.4. It's a 2023 AWD and the reported range is supposed to be 275 miles. This is our first venture into owning an EV so have been learning stuff as we go. First of all, we did install the level 2 charger at home (hardwired, 50amp and can deliver just over 11kwh) and, even without a lot of city driving, I couldn't imagine not having it.

We've also learned how brutal the cold weather is for performance and efficiency. Now, I'm actually going to reach out to our dealership because I think our numbers are downright atrocious even factoring that in, but basically, prior to our road trip, that range is 200 miles, AT BEST. And that's driving in Eco mode, using 1 pedal driving, etc.

So, we attempted our first road trip this past weekend. We weren't on a huge time crunch that allowed us to give it a shot. Our destination (Indy) is 250 miles away. With VW, we get 30 minutes of free charging at Electrify America stations (and more, which I'll get to). On the way there, there is a station 115 miles away in Effingham, IL. Then there's another one in Terra Haute about 70 miles away and then Indy is another 70 miles away. The plan was to hit the first station and see how things went.

When we left on Friday morning, temps were in the 40's but were going to be dropping quickly throughout the day and hitting single digits by the next day. Luckily we didn't have to do a ton of driving in Indy so I just needed to get there. Hit the first station in Effingham with about 44% left (started at 100%). Not bad. Was able to get up to 85% with a 29 minute charge. What I read was that some people could unplug and finish the whole transaction and you could start again with a new free 30 minutes. So, I gave it a shot and sure enough it worked. This was huge for the trip. Did another 5ish minutes, got it just over 90% and continued on. Got to Terra Haute and decided I would charge here as well so I could have a decently full battery in Indy and possibly even make it back to Terra Haute without having to worry about charging in Indy. But, we could have made it to Indy without this stop. Did a 30 minute and then 10 minute charge and got it up to 99% and arrived in Indy. In the end, this added about 2 hours to our 4 hour drive. Not ideal but it wasn't terrible. We were able to eat during one of our stops. Did some shopping at Walmart for a couple things for the other.

Arrived in Indy, had a little driving to do, but my range of 90 miles started going downhill REALLY fast even with just a little bit of driving. There was no way I would make the 70 miles back to Terra Haute without charging first. So, Sunday morning, which I had free, I headed over to an Electrify America station about 15 minutes away. It was brutally cold (-3 F) and it took forever to charge. Ended up having to do two 30 minute sessions plus another 8 minutes to get it up to 95%. And the range the car was showing at this point was 166 miles. WTF??!! Basically a full battery and it's showing just over 50% of the range of what it should be. Now, I know it's cold, but this is basing it on our drive over here. On the way to Indy, we actually kept the heat off for most of the trip (we were comfortable and I wanted to get a feel for the range) and had it on cruise control so the car would be as efficient as possible, driving about 72mph most of the way. I know highway driving isn't the most efficient, but we tried to maximize the best we could.

Seeing that, I knew we were going to have to make both stops on the way back as well. I ended up driving about 28 miles from that charge (the 15 minutes back to the hotel plus extra going out to dinner, etc) and when we were leaving to drive back yesterday, the battery was down to 63% and showed a range of 104 miles. Needless to say, something is wrong with our battery or these temps are wreaking havoc on the EV.

We had to stop at both stations. 1 hour of charging at first station, 40 minutes of charging at second station (95%). Arrived home with 40 miles of range left :(

So, we ended up being fine. It didn't cost us anything. But it certainly added significant time and the range was completely decimated for whatever reason. I've tried to look up if these frigid temps should affect it as much as it did and, while it should definitely be lower, this seems excessive.

That said, as someone who normally drives to do road trips as quickly as possible, the stops every hour to hour and a half with breaks made the overall trip not as bad as I would have expected. Watched a couple shows during our stops, able to eat, and since we didn't have huge time constraints, we just kind of went with it. But, it's definitely not for everyone, and when on a tighter schedule, I wouldn't want to risk it.

Feel free to share thoughts on any of the above or ask anything. Sorry for the long post.

 

[the moops]

Our Chevy Bolt on a full charge in nice weather shows like 280 miles. In the frigid cold, it shows about 180 miles. Haven't really tracked whether that is accurate though. I too was shocked at how much of a loss there is in cold weather, but fortunately it hasn't affected us in any way (yet)

 

[FBG26]

So, we are a month and a half into ownership of our VW ID.4. It's a 2023 AWD and the reported range is supposed to be 275 miles.

[snipped]

Ended up having to do two 30 minute sessions plus another 8 minutes to get it up to 95%. And the range the car was showing at this point was 166 miles. WTF??!! Basically a full battery and it's showing just over 50% of the range of what it should be. Now, I know it's cold, but this is basing it on our drive over here. On the way to Indy, we actually kept the heat off for most of the trip (we were comfortable and I wanted to get a feel for the range) and had it on cruise control so the car would be as efficient as possible, driving about 72mph most of the way. I know highway driving isn't the most efficient, but we tried to maximize the best we could.

[more snipped]

I've tried to look up if these frigid temps should affect it as much as it did and, while it should definitely be lower, this seems excessive.

My guess is it was more the speed you were driving, though temperature definitely plays a huge part.

Here is a really cool site that estimates the effect of temperature and speed on mileage (not for your vehicle, just generally). About halfway down you'll find a slider for "Impact of temperature and speed on EV range." According to this, you get the most mileage at 68F and 15mph. Keep the temp at 68F and change the speed to 55mph and you're down to 74.4% of the rated distance. Change the speed to 72mph and you're at 60.3% of the stated range. Now keep the speed at 72mph and drop the temp to 32F, the range drops to 54.5%.

From another link I found, again not for your vehicle. This is just some guy talking about his experience, but he writes:
My own data shows that most modern electric cars, driven on motorways at speeds close to 75 mph, will shed range at just over 30% compared with the range availability on offer. In other words, if the range availability is 100 miles, don’t expect to go much further than about 65 miles.

Last thing I'll mention is that the range estimate provided by the car is just a guess based on how you've been driving recently. So if you do most of your driving in the city with the heat off, the estimated range will start really high. But then if you do that road trip and start driving 70mph, the estimated (and actual) range will drop dramatically. So maybe you only get 150 miles out of a full charge on the highway. But then go back to driving around town again and you might get closer to that 300 mile range on a full charge.

 

[belljr]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

 

[Sand]

So, we are a month and a half into ownership of our VW ID.4. It's a 2023 AWD and the reported range is supposed to be 275 miles. This is our first venture into owning an EV so have been learning stuff as we go. First of all, we did install the level 2 charger at home (hardwired, 50amp and can deliver just over 11kwh) and, even without a lot of city driving, I couldn't imagine not having it.

We've also learned how brutal the cold weather is for performance and efficiency. Now, I'm actually going to reach out to our dealership because I think our numbers are downright atrocious even factoring that in, but basically, prior to our road trip, that range is 200 miles, AT BEST. And that's driving in Eco mode, using 1 pedal driving, etc.

So, we attempted our first road trip this past weekend. We weren't on a huge time crunch that allowed us to give it a shot. Our destination (Indy) is 250 miles away. With VW, we get 30 minutes of free charging at Electrify America stations (and more, which I'll get to). On the way there, there is a station 115 miles away in Effingham, IL. Then there's another one in Terra Haute about 70 miles away and then Indy is another 70 miles away. The plan was to hit the first station and see how things went.

When we left on Friday morning, temps were in the 40's but were going to be dropping quickly throughout the day and hitting single digits by the next day. Luckily we didn't have to do a ton of driving in Indy so I just needed to get there. Hit the first station in Effingham with about 44% left (started at 100%). Not bad. Was able to get up to 85% with a 29 minute charge. What I read was that some people could unplug and finish the whole transaction and you could start again with a new free 30 minutes. So, I gave it a shot and sure enough it worked. This was huge for the trip. Did another 5ish minutes, got it just over 90% and continued on. Got to Terra Haute and decided I would charge here as well so I could have a decently full battery in Indy and possibly even make it back to Terra Haute without having to worry about charging in Indy. Did a 30 minute and then 10 minute charge and got it up to 99% and arrived in Indy. In the end, this added about 2 hours to our 4 hour drive. Not ideal but it wasn't terrible. We were able to eat during one of our stops. Did some shopping at Walmart for a couple things for the other.

Arrived in Indy, had a little driving to do, but my range of 90 miles started going downhill REALLY fast even with just a little bit of driving. There was no way I would make the 70 miles back to Terra Haute without charging first. So, Sunday morning, which I had free, I headed over to an Electrify America station about 15 minutes away. It was brutally cold (-3 F) and it took forever to charge. Ended up having to do two 30 minute sessions plus another 8 minutes to get it up to 95%. And the range the car was showing at this point was 166 miles. WTF??!! Basically a full battery and it's showing just over 50% of the range of what it should be. Now, I know it's cold, but this is basing it on our drive over here. On the way to Indy, we actually kept the heat off for most of the trip (we were comfortable and I wanted to get a feel for the range) and had it on cruise control so the car would be as efficient as possible, driving about 72mph most of the way. I know highway driving isn't the most efficient, but we tried to maximize the best we could.

Seeing that, I knew we were going to have to make both stops on the way back as well. I ended up driving about 28 miles from that charge (the 15 minutes back to the hotel plus extra going out to dinner, etc) and when we were leaving to drive back yesterday, the battery was down to 63% and showed a range of 104 miles. Needless to say, something is wrong with our battery or these temps are wreaking havoc on the EV.

We had to stop at both stations. 1 hour of charging at first station, 40 minutes of charging at second station (95%). Arrived home with 40 miles of range left :(

So, we ended up being fine. It didn't cost us anything. But it certainly added significant time and the range was completely decimated for whatever reason. I've tried to look up if these frigid temps should affect it as much as it did and, while it should definitely be lower, this seems excessive.

That said, as someone who normally drives to do road trips as quickly as possible, the stops every hour to hour and a half with breaks made the overall trip not as bad as I would have expected. Watched a couple shows during our stops, able to eat, and since we didn't have huge time constraints, we just kind of went with it. But, it's definitely not for everyone, and when on a tighter schedule, I wouldn't want to risk it.

Feel free to share thoughts on any of the above or ask anything. Sorry for the long post.

Kinda like taking Amtrak.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

What a god-awful article.

Not a lot of details here. These people returned from trips and the batteries had run down?

I doubt that was it. We had our WV parked for a full week at the airport in Minneapolis in some dead *** cold weather. Didn’t even lose a percent.

Me neither. I just had mine parked outside for three days in single digit temps and it was the exact same as I left it. Without details, the article seemed like an agenda piece.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Our Chevy Bolt on a full charge in nice weather shows like 280 miles. In the frigid cold, it shows about 180 miles. Haven't really tracked whether that is accurate though. I too was shocked at how much of a loss there is in cold weather, but fortunately it hasn't affected us in any way (yet)

I still get around 210 with mine at a 90% charge so far this winter, I’m in Maine and have all weather tires on vs the energy savers. The heater uses a ton of energy. If you can keep from having that on nonstop you’ll save a ton.

 

[fruity pebbles]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

Yeah. With regen braking you can drive around town using very little energy.

 

[belljr]

Our Chevy Bolt on a full charge in nice weather shows like 280 miles. In the frigid cold, it shows about 180 miles. Haven't really tracked whether that is accurate though. I too was shocked at how much of a loss there is in cold weather, but fortunately it hasn't affected us in any way (yet)

I still get around 210 with mine at a 90% charge so far this winter and I’m in Maine. The heater uses a ton of energy. If you can keep from having that on nonstop you’ll save a ton.

What is this driving around in my 02 civic and I have to keep the air off to go uphill

 

[the moops]

Our Chevy Bolt on a full charge in nice weather shows like 280 miles. In the frigid cold, it shows about 180 miles. Haven't really tracked whether that is accurate though. I too was shocked at how much of a loss there is in cold weather, but fortunately it hasn't affected us in any way (yet)

I still get around 210 with mine at a 90% charge so far this winter and I’m in Maine. The heater uses a ton of energy. If you can keep from having that on nonstop you’ll save a ton.

It's -6 degrees here. You try and drive without the heater on

 

[fruity pebbles]

Our Chevy Bolt on a full charge in nice weather shows like 280 miles. In the frigid cold, it shows about 180 miles. Haven't really tracked whether that is accurate though. I too was shocked at how much of a loss there is in cold weather, but fortunately it hasn't affected us in any way (yet)

I still get around 210 with mine at a 90% charge so far this winter and I’m in Maine. The heater uses a ton of energy. If you can keep from having that on nonstop you’ll save a ton.

It's -6 degrees here. You try and drive without the heater on

lol it was single digits here. I get it but that’s a Big reason it’s dropped so much. The seat and steering wheel heaters use a lot less. If you don’t have those you can turn the heat off and on as needed vs having it on the whole time.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Our Chevy Bolt on a full charge in nice weather shows like 280 miles. In the frigid cold, it shows about 180 miles. Haven't really tracked whether that is accurate though. I too was shocked at how much of a loss there is in cold weather, but fortunately it hasn't affected us in any way (yet)

I still get around 210 with mine at a 90% charge so far this winter and I’m in Maine. The heater uses a ton of energy. If you can keep from having that on nonstop you’ll save a ton.

What is this driving around in my 02 civic and I have to keep the air off to go uphill

lol I mean you don’t have to keep it off but it is a huge energy drain if you’re on a trip.

 

[Instinctive]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

Yeah. With regen braking you can drive around town using very little energy.

I wouldn't say very little. And it heavily depends on the weight of your foot.

All of this in temps between 20-60, average probably mid40s:
I get 3.3 mi/kWh naturally. When I focus on being better, I creep up towards 4. When I'm highway, I'm at around 3.5 using the auto drive/advanced cruise thing and going like 80mph.

I think a straight road around 50-55 on cruise would be best. Weather 60-80 outside.

 

[fruity pebbles]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

Yeah. With regen braking you can drive around town using very little energy.

I wouldn't say very little. And it heavily depends on the weight of your foot.

All of this in temps between 20-60, average probably mid40s:
I get 3.3 mi/kWh naturally. When I focus on being better, I creep up towards 4. When I'm highway, I'm at around 3.5 using the auto drive/advanced cruise thing and going like 80mph.

I think a straight road around 50-55 on cruise would be best. Weather 60-80 outside.

I use much less energy going 25mph from stoplight to stoplight using one pedal driving vs driving on the highway on cruise control.

 

[gianmarco]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

Yeah. With regen braking you can drive around town using very little energy.

I wouldn't say very little. And it heavily depends on the weight of your foot.

All of this in temps between 20-60, average probably mid40s:
I get 3.3 mi/kWh naturally. When I focus on being better, I creep up towards 4. When I'm highway, I'm at around 3.5 using the auto drive/advanced cruise thing and going like 80mph.

I think a straight road around 50-55 on cruise would be best. Weather 60-80 outside.

Our "usual" over the last month mostly driving around town is about 2.7 mi/kWh.
Over this trip, it was like 1.8 mi/kWh.

The estimated best case range, given the usable 77kW battery, should be ~3.6 mi/kWh. So yeah, we were at about 50% of that, and probably even a little lower.

 

[Instinctive]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

Yeah. With regen braking you can drive around town using very little energy.

I wouldn't say very little. And it heavily depends on the weight of your foot.

All of this in temps between 20-60, average probably mid40s:
I get 3.3 mi/kWh naturally. When I focus on being better, I creep up towards 4. When I'm highway, I'm at around 3.5 using the auto drive/advanced cruise thing and going like 80mph.

I think a straight road around 50-55 on cruise would be best. Weather 60-80 outside.

I use much less energy going 25mph from stoplight to stoplight using one pedal driving vs driving on the highway on cruise control.

Really? The single most heavy loss of energy is taking the car from 0 mph to x mph.

 

[fruity pebbles]

So highway driving is technically worse than city driving for EV? Interesting and wild imo. It's the opposite

Yeah. With regen braking you can drive around town using very little energy.

I wouldn't say very little. And it heavily depends on the weight of your foot.

All of this in temps between 20-60, average probably mid40s:
I get 3.3 mi/kWh naturally. When I focus on being better, I creep up towards 4. When I'm highway, I'm at around 3.5 using the auto drive/advanced cruise thing and going like 80mph.

I think a straight road around 50-55 on cruise would be best. Weather 60-80 outside.

I use much less energy going 25mph from stoplight to stoplight using one pedal driving vs driving on the highway on cruise control.

Really? The single most heavy loss of energy is taking the car from 0 mph to x mph.

Light foot and getting a bunch of that back with regen braking, yeah.