What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Eli Manning HoF? (1 Viewer)

ShamrockPride

Footballguy
gotta be joking here. Eli in the HoF? For what? Playing a long time?
Don't joke. You'll be seeing tons of these guys entering the HoF in the coming years the way medicine is today. Guys like Tom Brady are just the beginning. Just gonna have to get used to it.

 

thecardiackid

Footballguy
gotta be joking here. Eli in the HoF? For what? Playing a long time?
once again... you're better than that.  and there's a thread devoted to this "debate"

both (not archie) manning's have 2 rings.  and the #s.  it's the corporation. 

and why do you really care?  don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

Soulfly3

Footballguy
I don't hate Eli. I just don't think he's HoF material.

But then again, we throw around the term "GOAT" and "generational player" yearly now to a new player, so it makes sense he gets in.

 

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
We're letting his last year or two behind an awful line for terrible teams cloud judgement here. 
:no:  

He shouldn't sniff the Hall. 

113-110 W/L record.

Has led the league in INT's three times (never led it in TD passes).

Lifetime passer rating of 83.9, which is pretty bad by today's standards. 

Has never been considered one of the best QB's in the league. 

Lifetime YPA of 7.0 is pretty mediocre.

 

Insein

Footballguy
Currently 6th All time in passing yards and 7th in Passing TDs. Has 2 rings. He's a lock. Probably first ballot. 

 

foxco

Footballguy
I wouldn’t put him in, but you can’t tell the story of football without mentioning him beating Brady twice.

 
Thoroughly mediocre Q.B. whose stats are a product of his time.  He came along in the passing era.  His stats will be massively eclipsed in no time at all.  Now he did win two Super Bowls and Q.B.'s get quite a bit of that credit, deserving or not.  I think he gets in, but didn't the Hall make Stabler wait a long time?  Certainly not a first ballot guy and if the wait is too long his stats are not going to look as impressive.   

 

Insein

Footballguy
Thoroughly mediocre Q.B. whose stats are a product of his time.  He came along in the passing era.  His stats will be massively eclipsed in no time at all.  Now he did win two Super Bowls and Q.B.'s get quite a bit of that credit, deserving or not.  I think he gets in, but didn't the Hall make Stabler wait a long time?  Certainly not a first ballot guy and if the wait is too long his stats are not going to look as impressive.   
He's a Manning. His stats are top 10 and still will be when he retires. He has two rings. His consecutive starts streak was 2nd only to Farve for QBs. 

There will be writers that try to make him wait but enough will look at the stats and just say yes, he's in. If Joe Namath is in for being a cocky SOB before a super bowl, then Eli will get in no problem. First ballot.

 
He's a Manning. His stats are top 10 and still will be when he retires. He has two rings. His consecutive starts streak was 2nd only to Farve for QBs. 

There will be writers that try to make him wait but enough will look at the stats and just say yes, he's in. If Joe Namath is in for being a cocky SOB before a super bowl, then Eli will get in no problem. First ballot.
If I am wrong here it will continue a long tradition of me being wrong.  Certainly the smart money bets against me so you are likely correct.

 

Alex P Keaton

Footballguy
:no:  

He shouldn't sniff the Hall. 

113-110 W/L record.

Has led the league in INT's three times (never led it in TD passes).

Lifetime passer rating of 83.9, which is pretty bad by today's standards. 

Has never been considered one of the best QB's in the league. 

Lifetime YPA of 7.0 is pretty mediocre.
Spot on

 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Never elite. Same with Statpadford & to a lesser extent Flacco, Romo and Ryan.

None of those guys.

Rivers is an interesting debate IMO. Wilson, who knows. Luck - not bloody likely.

Brady, Brees, Peyton, Ben and Rodgers are all yes.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Joe Namath is in the HOF with horrible stats and one game (albeit the most important game in NFL history) that put him in.  If he's in the HOF Eli has to be with what he's done.  /thread

 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheDirtyWord

Footballguy
Never elite. Same with Statpadford & to a lesser extent Flacco, Romo and Ryan.

None of those guys.

Rivers is an interesting debate IMO. Wilson, who knows. Luck - not bloody likely.

Brady, Brees, Peyton, Ben and Rodgers are all yes.
Manning will be an interesting test case.  Most QB's generally are first-ballot guys.  Even the ones you mention 'all yes' on will take about 2 minutes (combined) to decide.  Eli could be this generations Ken Anderson.

Question: Why is Rivers an interesting debate, but not Ryan?

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
He should barely get in IMO.   For many years that man has played with basically no OL and no running game.   He has 2 Superbowls with "meh" team  rosters.   He hasn't ever been put in a position to really thrive--and yet he found a way to win 2 rings.  For me--that alone is enough for him to barely get in.  

 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Question: Why is Rivers an interesting debate, but not Ryan?
Good point. Other than TD passes - Rivers is way ahead culmulative & 5.4% to 4.7% - their career arcs are similar. With a couple more productive seasons after Rivers retires he’ll catch him in most categories, plus he’s got hardware (RotY & MVP) Rivers will never match.

 

Synthesizer

Footballguy
He played mediocre football for a long time.  Even though he played his entire career in a passing era, he gave his team 1.5 passing TDs per game and 1.1 interceptions per game.  His passer rating of 83.9 is right near other QBs like Fitzpatrick and Bortles who are usually getting benched every season.

 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Joe Namath is in the HOF with horrible stats and one game (albeit the most important game in NFL history) that put him in.  If he's in the HOF Eli has to be with what he's done.  /thread
Context.

Namath always gets brought up in stats arguments but people who weren’t alive then don’t understand how the pre-internet world worked. NYC was the media & advertising capitol of the world & Broadway Joe was the sexiest man alive before the term existed. The $427K contract in 1965 was massive & helped nudge the merger talks along, the $10K ($75K? I’m middle aged lol) to shave his mustache off in a live commercial was a cultural event, the full length mink coat on the sideline, et al.

None of those things should be factors in HoF consideration but for a brief period he was the Willie Mays / Ali / Arnold Palmer / Howe / Chamberlain of his sport. With 20/20 hindsight it seems like a bad, horrible choice but in the period he was larger than life.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Context.

Namath always gets brought up in stats arguments but people who weren’t alive then don’t understand how the pre-internet world worked. NYC was the media & advertising capitol of the world & Broadway Joe was the sexiest man alive before the term existed. The $427K contract in 1965 was massive & helped nudge the merger talks along, the $10K ($75K? I’m middle aged lol) to shave his mustache off in a live commercial was a cultural event, the full length mink coat on the sideline, et al.

None of those things should be factors in HoF consideration but for a brief period he was the Willie Mays / Ali / Arnold Palmer / Howe / Chamberlain of his sport. With 20/20 hindsight it seems like a bad, horrible choice but in the period he was larger than life.
I was alive then and you're right about the time being a factor.  in retrospect it was fluff and he doesn't belong in the HOF.

 

TheDirtyWord

Footballguy
Context.

Namath always gets brought up in stats arguments but people who weren’t alive then don’t understand how the pre-internet world worked. NYC was the media & advertising capitol of the world & Broadway Joe was the sexiest man alive before the term existed. The $427K contract in 1965 was massive & helped nudge the merger talks along, the $10K ($75K? I’m middle aged lol) to shave his mustache off in a live commercial was a cultural event, the full length mink coat on the sideline, et al.

None of those things should be factors in HoF consideration but for a brief period he was the Willie Mays / Ali / Arnold Palmer / Howe / Chamberlain of his sport. With 20/20 hindsight it seems like a bad, horrible choice but in the period he was larger than life.
I think that's one thing that gets lost a bit when discussing Namath...obviously his on-field performance and stats have aged...poorly.  But his contribution not only to football, but sports in general remains enormous.  I can't think of another athlete who was as instrumental as attracting women to the sport as Namath and his brazen off-field image pretty much was the seed for the modern day athlete.

He was the right guy, at the right time, in the right place who was absolutely central to the expansion of NFL football as the nations past time.  From a cultural perspective, I'd argue he belongs in the Top 10 most important and significant figures in NFL history.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I think that's one thing that gets lost a bit when discussing Namath...obviously his on-field performance and stats have aged...poorly.  But his contribution not only to football, but sports in general remains enormous.  I can't think of another athlete who was as instrumental as attracting women to the sport as Namath and his brazen off-field image pretty much was the seed for the modern day athlete.

He was the right guy, at the right time, in the right place who was absolutely central to the expansion of NFL football as the nations past time.  From a cultural perspective, I'd argue he belongs in the Top 10 most important and significant figures in NFL history.
I agree with this 100%.  Now we have to ask the question whether we can on occasion ignore stats in today's game and replace it with cultural perspective and place in history when considering players for the HOF?  If the answer is no, then placing Namath in the HOF was a mistake.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
I think that's one thing that gets lost a bit when discussing Namath...obviously his on-field performance and stats have aged...poorly.  But his contribution not only to football, but sports in general remains enormous.  I can't think of another athlete who was as instrumental as attracting women to the sport as Namath and his brazen off-field image pretty much was the seed for the modern day athlete.

He was the right guy, at the right time, in the right place who was absolutely central to the expansion of NFL football as the nations past time.  From a cultural perspective, I'd argue he belongs in the Top 10 most important and significant figures in NFL history.
Well if off the field considerations are part of it then Eli should definitely be in for giving the world dopey face memes/gifs.  Life would be much sadder  without those.

 

TheDirtyWord

Footballguy
I agree with this 100%.  Now we have to ask the question whether we can on occasion ignore stats in today's game and replace it with cultural perspective and place in history when considering players for the HOF?  If the answer is no, then placing Namath in the HOF was a mistake.
Particularly at the QB position, I think it will be interesting to see how guys like Rivers/Ryan/Eli are evaluated.  In large part because when they retire, they will undoubtedly be able to say 'we're in the Top 5-6 in these passing categories of all-time'.  But all-time doesn't really mean much because rules changes have essentially made statistical comparisons between eras of football irrelevant.  When Namath retired, he was 6th on the all-time passing yards leaders.

Case in point: 4 QB's have 5000 yard passing seasons in NFL history (Peyton, Brady, Brees, Marino).  As of now, 4 QB's are on pace to have 5000 yard passing seasons in 2018.

Quite frankly...QB stats are almost funny money now when comparing QB credentials. 

 

voiceofunreason

Footballguy
He should barely get in IMO.   For many years that man has played with basically no OL and no running game.   He has 2 Superbowls with "meh" team  rosters.   He hasn't ever been put in a position to really thrive--and yet he found a way to win 2 rings.  For me--that alone is enough for him to barely get in.  
I guess Dilfer is in. Probably Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Foles. 

 

dcgangstas

Footballguy
Eli will get in .  

Troy Aikman's numbers are relatively pedestrian in comparison to his contemporaries,  but three SB Rings made him a first-ballot lock.  

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
I guess Dilfer is in. Probably Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Foles. 
None of those guys have the cumulative career stats that Eli does either. Eli started a ton of games in a row- and while his breakdown of averages per game are not really impressive- his career totals are. You can’t discount the value of being available to play week after week over a long nfl career like Eli has. That’s a rarity in the NFL.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I posted an article in one of the other Eli threads that historically he has been a below average QB across the entirety of his career (and that article is probably a couple years old by now and I can't imagine his recent stats raised the bar any).

Folks citing career passing totals should know better. Carson Palmer, Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe, and Kerry Collins are all ranked in the all-time Top 20 in passing yards. Joe Flacco will pass Johnny Unitas soon to take claim of the #20 spot (for now anyway). Just because a QB played longer doesn't always make them better.

But sadly the answer will be yes, Eli will make it in. Two great SB runs with SB MVPs and a few productive seasons with carry the day (and being on the Giants won't hurt his cause).

 

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
Eli is a lock:

  • He will retire top 10 in completions, passing yards, passing TDs, and total offense. He is currently top 7 all time in all of those.
  • He led his team to 2 Super Bowl wins, and he played well in clutch situations in both of those runs, leading his team from behind in the final 1-2 minutes in each championship.
  • He won 2 Super Bowl MVP awards.
  • His clutch play wasn't limited to those postseason runs - he is #9 all time in game winning drives and #11 in comebacks.
  • He was uncommonly durable. Rivers will probably pass him in consecutive starts, pushing him to the 3rd longest streak of consecutive starts at QB in NFL history, despite being sacked 391 times and counting.
  • He is apparently well liked by his coaches and teammates. No off field issues. Won the Walter Payton MOY award. More importantly, he is well liked by the media, including HOF voters, and he played 15 seasons in the media capital of the world for a historic NFL franchise.
  • His last name is Manning.
There are multiple routes to the HOF. Some players get there based on signature accomplishments, others get there for long, sustained excellence. The trap people often fall into is trying to compare someone in one group to HOFers in the other group and saying they don't measure up, as if there is only one path.

And stop with the silly comparisons. Any player with all of the stuff above would make the HOF. Guys like Dilfer, Palmer, Testaverde, et al. may have one or two things on the list, but that isn't enough.

I am not an Eli fan at all. But there is no debate about him making it. He's a :IBTL:

 
Last edited by a moderator:

travdogg

Footballguy
He'll probably make it because of the 2 rings. Should he? Of course not, he's not even a top-60 all-time NFL QB. QB's historically get way to much credit(and blame) for team accomplishments. 

Honestly, the only guy off those Giants Super Bowl teams that should be a HOF-er is Strahan, and he only got 1 ring, and he wasn't an elite player anymore at that point. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top