Emerging NFL Talent: Ryan Mathews (1 Viewer)

[Matt Waldman]

My link

 

[shortbow]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

 

[moderated]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

He runs in the high 4.6 range. That's not fast for any kind of rb, bruiser or not.

 

[PahtyTom]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

He runs in the high 4.6 range. That's not fast for any kind of rb, bruiser or not.

100% falseif he really runs a 4.6 forty, at 243 lbs that is VERY fast

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm on board here. Looking forward to seeing what he can do in 2011.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Like Fox Mulder, "I Want to Believe"

 

[finito]

I like Matthews but think Tolbert will still see significant touches.

 

[ThePittbully]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

He runs in the high 4.6 range. That's not fast for any kind of rb, bruiser or not.

100% falseif he really runs a 4.6 forty, at 243 lbs that is VERY fast

I agree, if you're 240+ and running in the 4.5-4.6 range, that's pretty fast. Stopping a guy that big running at that speed is no small task

 

[moderated]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

He runs in the high 4.6 range. That's not fast for any kind of rb, bruiser or not.

100% falseif he really runs a 4.6 forty, at 243 lbs that is VERY fast

I agree, if you're 240+ and running in the 4.5-4.6 range, that's pretty fast. Stopping a guy that big running at that speed is no small task

The HIGH 4.6 range, not anywhere near the 4.5 range.He ran a 4.68 40 yard dash at the combine. Once again that is not fast for any RB, fat or not, even Lendale the whale ran faster.

 

[shortbow]

LeGarrette Blount 4.62

Mike Tolbert 4.68

Michael Turner 4.49

Frank Gore 4.66

Michael Bush 4.63

So I guess if you were to put a number on it, yes he is bringing up the rear as far as speed goes for this type of RB. I still maintain that he is quick enough in an open field which is almost irrelevant because thats no the type of back he is, similar to Michael Turner who I cant help but see every similarity between the two and maybe thats why I like him so much, he needs that extra foot or two in the backfield to build the momentum, then he just bowls people over.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Title of thread misleading. This Thread is about Mike Tolberts speed right?

 

[shortbow]

Title of thread misleading. This Thread is about Mike Tolberts speed right?

If you read the op and the link he posted, yes. The guys argument for Mathews is almost entirely based off being against Tolbert. Mathews is a stud, he unfortunately had a bad first year from an injury and is now in a position to be competing for carriers for as long as they are both in san diego.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I would be interested in hearing other opinions on the future success of Matthews. He seems to in a good situation with enough talent to succeed, but I have not had a chance to see him play to make my own determination.

 

[Whitney26]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

He runs in the high 4.6 range. That's not fast for any kind of rb, bruiser or not.

100% falseif he really runs a 4.6 forty, at 243 lbs that is VERY fast

I agree, if you're 240+ and running in the 4.5-4.6 range, that's pretty fast. Stopping a guy that big running at that speed is no small task

The HIGH 4.6 range, not anywhere near the 4.5 range.He ran a 4.68 40 yard dash at the combine. Once again that is not fast for any RB, fat or not, even Lendale the whale ran faster.

I think he actually ran the 4.68 at his pro day. At 243 pounds, it translates to speed score of 101.31, better than Ingram and Ryan Williams.

 

[Bri]

He mentions that Tolbert is deceptively quick but has below average speed for his position, which may be true if you include all rbs, but as far as Bruisers go, hes fast.

He runs in the high 4.6 range. That's not fast for any kind of rb, bruiser or not.

100% falseif he really runs a 4.6 forty, at 243 lbs that is VERY fast

I disagree with this logic as it pertains to football. No doubt it's fast for a big back, but the defenders still come at the RB running the same speed whether they are big or small(for the most part). Backs like CJ have plenty of other great qualities, but when he breaks away and is running "downhill", those are the easiest yards. I have to figure every coach or RB wants the easiest yards possible and a 4.6 RB isn't running away from too many people in a foot race-some sure, but every NFL DB can probably catch him and many LBs too.Should add that some of the videos of this guy that I saw at youtube a year ago suggest he may be faster than 4.6 within a game.

 

[Bri]

I think he actually ran the 4.68 at his pro day. At 243 pounds, it translates to speed score of 101.31, better than Ingram and Ryan Williams.

what's speed score? And is Brandon Jacobs the fastest ever by that metric? Young Brandon had shocking speed up the sideline. I think he's lost some of that speed over the years, so I'm not referring to him as of now.

 

[Guinis72]

I'm expecting a good year from Matthews as well. I remember reading many articles during last year's preseason about how he looked like "the real deal" in practices and a lot of the players were excited about him. He was banged up throughout the year, but looked pretty good at the end of the season when he was probably the healthiest he had been since preseason.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I just believe talent finds away onto the field and that Matthews is far more talented then Tolbert. My biggest concern is scehem here. The culture of this team has changed quite a bit of the last 3-4 years and I'm not sure if their scehem will allow there to be a great RB.

 

[Tau837]

I just believe talent finds away onto the field and that Matthews is far more talented then Tolbert. My biggest concern is scehem here. The culture of this team has changed quite a bit of the last 3-4 years and I'm not sure if their scehem will allow there to be a great RB.

It's the same scheme that helped players like Emmitt Smith, Ricky Williams, Tomlinson, Stephen Davis, and Terry Allen excel. It is certainly true that none of those Norv Turner teams (other than Tomlinson's final Chargers teams, of course) had a QB as good as Rivers. (No, Aikman was not as good as Rivers.) But what Turner really wants is balance, and it is also important to note that his offense uses RBs heavily in the passing game. Scheme should be viewed as a positive for Mathews, not a negative.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Title of thread misleading. This Thread is about Mike Tolberts speed right?

If you read the op and the link he posted, yes. The guys argument for Mathews is almost entirely based off being against Tolbert. Mathews is a stud, he unfortunately had a bad first year from an injury and is now in a position to be competing for carriers for as long as they are both in san diego.

Leron McClain had some good games a couple years ago but he was never a long term threat to Rice or even McGahee. Same for Tolbert.

 

[Whitney26]

I think he actually ran the 4.68 at his pro day. At 243 pounds, it translates to speed score of 101.31, better than Ingram and Ryan Williams.

what's speed score? And is Brandon Jacobs the fastest ever by that metric? Young Brandon had shocking speed up the sideline. I think he's lost some of that speed over the years, so I'm not referring to him as of now.

Jacob's, as a RB, did post one of the highest speed score's ever recorded (123.50). Surprisingly, Mario Fannin posted the highest recorded official score at the combine and he wasn't even drafted. Here are the top 6 ever posted according to the date I've seen:Mario Fannin 125.53Ben Tate 124.02Brandon Jacobs 123.50Chris Johnson 121.91Darren McFadden 120.05Ryan Mathews 119.55Here's an old article at ESPN that provides a decent explanation of the metric:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3337822It's certainly not a "tell-all," but I suppose it has it's place. As a numbers / metric guy, I'm interested in that kind of stuff.

 

[Grahamburn]

I think he actually ran the 4.68 at his pro day. At 243 pounds, it translates to speed score of 101.31, better than Ingram and Ryan Williams.

what's speed score? And is Brandon Jacobs the fastest ever by that metric? Young Brandon had shocking speed up the sideline. I think he's lost some of that speed over the years, so I'm not referring to him as of now.

Jacob's, as a RB, did post one of the highest speed score's ever recorded (123.50). Surprisingly, Mario Fannin posted the highest recorded official score at the combine and he wasn't even drafted. Here are the top 6 ever posted according to the date I've seen:

Mario Fannin 125.53

Ben Tate 124.02

Brandon Jacobs 123.50

Chris Johnson 121.91

Darren McFadden 120.05

Ryan Mathews 119.55

Here's an old article at ESPN that provides a decent explanation of the metric:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3337822

It's certainly not a "tell-all," but I suppose it has it's place. As a numbers / metric guy, I'm interested in that kind of stuff.

Interesting.

 

[johnadams]

My excitement about Ryan Matthews can be summed up in two words: Norv Turner. We may see a bit more of a second back than normal, but looking at Norv's track record and his use of a true feature back makes any RB1 on a Norv team a good bet to post a strong year. His ability to turn even marginal backs into strong FF backs is impressive. Norv has been OC or HC for 20 seasons and has produced the following:

16 top 20 finishes. (8 different backs)

13 top 10 (8 different backs)

8 top 5 (6 different backs)

4 top 1 (3 different backs)

The years he didn't produce a top 10 back were invariably injury riddled. For my money, there is no better situation in the NFL right now than being a feature back in a Norv coached offense. Sure, talent like Peterson and Johnson rise and situations can change based on OL, defense, coaching, etc., but Norv has taken mediocre backs and turned them into top ten FF backs. A healthy year from Matthews is a lock for a top 10 finish with top 3 upside. And, yes, I intend to draft Matthews in EVERY redraft league I play in. To me, Tolbert is a minor consideration. More important is that Sproles looks to be leaving, taking his 59 receptions with him.

For the record, I put the below list of top RBs from Norv coached offenses and where they finished in non-PPR scoring below.

91: Emmitt Smith, RB3

92: Smith, RB1

93: Smith, RB1

94: Ricky Ervins, RB28

95: Terry Allen, RB7

96: Allen, RB1

97: Allen, RB28

98: Allen, RB33

99: Stephen Davis, RB3

00: Davis, RB12

01: Ladanian Tomlinson, RB7

02: Ricky Williams, RB2

03: Williams, RB9

04: Amos Zereoue, RB39

05: Lamont Jordon, RB8

06: Frank Gore, RB5

07: LT, RB1

08: LT, RB7

09: LT, RB19

10: Mike Tolbert, RB19

 

[Bri]

John Adams,

(short of long quote) What do the last two indicate for you? Any concern?

 

[Bri]

I'm expecting a good year from Matthews as well. I remember reading many articles during last year's preseason about how he looked like "the real deal" in practices and a lot of the players were excited about him. He was banged up throughout the year, but looked pretty good at the end of the season when he was probably the healthiest he had been since preseason.

Could have quoted almost anyone I suppose, please feel free to jump in.After year 1, How does one know if a rookie RB can't handle the full workload or if it's just an unusual occurrence that he was injured?

Consequently, how would that mesh up with Matthews?

Please "play along" and answer both parts

Possible argument point- Bam Morris seems to fit the can't handle part as he got progressively worse as his career wore on. There were other circumstances but disregarding some he seemed to do best as rook, get hurt more and more often and perform worse and worse. Before Forte, there was a slew of good-looking rookie RBs for the Bears that would almost always fall flat the next year or two. If you're old enough....Neal Anderson and Anthony Thomas were good players that played well as a rook and it was NOT predictable that they'd stink. Curtis Enis, IIRC, got too much love for being from Penn State. Well, I guess I'm fuzzy on some of the details but my point is these guys were no slouches, did well, then wound up becoming jokes in FF like haha some dope drafted them.

 

[One]

Great read. Thanks Matt.

 

[johnadams]

John Adams,(short of long quote) What do the last two indicate for you? Any concern?

That's a good question as it provides context. In 2009, LT was hampered by injuries (and a bit of age), missing two games while being limited in effectiveness in others. Because of this, Sproles took a bigger part of the passing game as well (which has been one of the primary elements of most of Norv's RBs). LT was off his career rushing attempts per game by over four and receptions per season by 40. Sproles had 49 receptions to LTs 20. In 2010, Matthews seemed poised to become a feature back in the LT style (with fewer receptions thanks to Sproles) prior to injury, which he battled all year. Matthews missed four games and parts of at least three others. Of course, that's not to say that Norv hasn't found something new to work with, meaning something closer to RBBC, but Norv has been pretty true when he's had a healthy back and Norv seemed pretty clear prior to last season that he envisions Matthews as an everydown back. I'm willing to take the chance that Norv's hand has been forced for the last two seasons rather than a specific change in how he is coaching. And like I said, the likely loss of Sproles is one of the bigger reasons I'm buying into Matthews.

 

[moderated]

for those touting McClain, i mean Tolbert, what does Tolbert do better then Mathews?

1)Speed - Mathews

2)Balance - Mathews

3)Agility - Mathews

4)Vision - Mathews

5)Quickness - Mathews

6)Cut Backs - Mathews

The only thing Tolbert might have an edge on is short yardage and even in that regard Mathews is still solid.

A healthy Mathews is getting 300+ touches on the year, the only way he doesn't is an injury, it's a lock.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I just believe talent finds away onto the field and that Matthews is far more talented then Tolbert. My biggest concern is scehem here. The culture of this team has changed quite a bit of the last 3-4 years and I'm not sure if their scehem will allow there to be a great RB.

It's the same scheme that helped players like Emmitt Smith, Ricky Williams, Tomlinson, Stephen Davis, and Terry Allen excel. It is certainly true that none of those Norv Turner teams (other than Tomlinson's final Chargers teams, of course) had a QB as good as Rivers. (No, Aikman was not as good as Rivers.) But what Turner really wants is balance, and it is also important to note that his offense uses RBs heavily in the passing game. Scheme should be viewed as a positive for Mathews, not a negative.

That is my main reasoning behind why. It's not that I don't think Matthews has the talent or that Norv doesn't have the track record. It's that you typically do not see QB's of this caliber getting scaled back. Norv may want balance but I think it will now be a pass to set up the run situation.

 

[lynx4ben]

My biggest concern with Mathews is how loose he carries the football. I believe ball security is what partially put him in the doghouse last year. Watching the youtube video I think it is very evident. I think he's got mega talent but if fumbles become a problem Tolbert could have decent amount of games where he gets the lion share of carries.

 

[T with T]

I just believe talent finds away onto the field and that Matthews is far more talented then Tolbert. My biggest concern is scehem here. The culture of this team has changed quite a bit of the last 3-4 years and I'm not sure if their scehem will allow there to be a great RB.

what is a scehem?????

 

[T with T]

John Adams,(short of long quote) What do the last two indicate for you? Any concern?

Well probably because LT was done by 09 and Tolbert was a fill in... can we all agree that looks to be it since the last 20 years he produced top backs... Come on guys. As for Matthews give the guy a break he had 7 tds on one leg in 12 games... how easily we forget Ray rices awesome rookie year with 400 yards and 1 td or Lesean Mccoy and his 500 yards... Matthews is a complete stud waiting to break out and can be had in the 3rd round of ppr dynasties... he will be top 10 next year in 2012 ppr start up dynasties......