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England becoming a Caliphate. US next (1 Viewer)

I see.

Do you understand why someone would read this remark and find it to be bigoted, Higgs? 
And I suppose it's also bigoted of me to mention the stories I hear from my wife at least once a week (she screens patients in  a hospital) where a Muslim couple comes in and she cannot address the woman because the man speaks for her.  I guess you'd rather oppose my "bigotry" than take a stand against that, right?

 
And I suppose it's also bigoted of me to mention the stories I hear from my wife at least once a week (she screens patients in  a hospital) where a Muslim couple comes in and she cannot address the woman because the man speaks for her.  I guess you'd rather oppose my "bigotry" than take a stand against that, right?
Not at all. That's certainly awful. There's a big distinction, however, between asserting that many religious Muslims do not treat women as we westerners believe they should be treated, and implying that they are all terrorists, as you did with your snide San Bernardino comment. The first is a reasonable criticism of Muslims (though why it should have any effect on their coming here I don't know). The second is plain bigotry and xenophobia. 

As far as the treatment of women goes: many Muslims treat women the same as my great great grandparents did (think Fiddler on the Roof). So long as we don't isolate these people the way some Europeans do, I believe western culture will change them as it did my ancestors, and likely yours as well. 

 
I just love the assumption that it takes believers in one myth to combat believers in another myth.
I am not sure why you think anyone is believing in any myth?  I think the pursuit of evidence to guide our understanding of nature is quite the opposite of belief in myth.

 
I despise the fact that the word "theory" is attached to these things.  This colloquial usage of the term leads to so many misconceptions about what actually constitutes scientific theory.
Yeah, that ship has sailed.  Is string theory even testable?  Maybe it shouldn't even be called a hypothesis.

 
And the keep the women in line too.  :thumbup:
I was also surprised how many of the Muslims from the Middle East were extremely racist against blacks. They really are right at home in the old 1950s America that many think was so great. 

In all honestly, a lot of that element fades here over time from what I've seen. Plus, it's probably a bit self-selecting since those that choose to come to America may also be more liberal. At my school the black and Arabic kids get a long fine. I've met many families where women were running the show. The daughters I work with are all doing normal teen things and not getting married or other weird stuff. I know that still goes on, but it's a small minority. 

 
I am not sure why you think anyone is believing in any myth?  I think the pursuit of evidence to guide our understanding of nature is quite the opposite of belief in myth.
:lmao:  @ religion being the pursuit of evidence.

 
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And I suppose it's also bigoted of me to mention the stories I hear from my wife at least once a week (she screens patients in  a hospital) where a Muslim couple comes in and she cannot address the woman because the man speaks for her.  I guess you'd rather oppose my "bigotry" than take a stand against that, right?
That certainly is bizarre. Luckily, I have never encountered this except when the wife does not speak English. 

 
I despise the fact that the word "theory" is attached to these things.  This colloquial usage of the term leads to so many misconceptions about what actually constitutes scientific theory.
Sorry it triggers you but that is what it is called. I have never seen it referred as String Hypothesis in any scientific article.

Beyond that it isn't going anywhere. It provides a framework for explaining a lot. All you have to do is come up with something better. Win the Nobel prize.

 
Western secular progressives view Muslims as fellow travelers in their quest to overturn the existing order of things and muscle, both political and physical, to use against their opponents when convenient. Given their inclination toward moral equivalence these progressives naively think that once they've gotten their way they'll be able to contain the twin forces of sharia and jihad which have been unleashed upon our societies as a result of their policies, just as they have steadily worn down a far more passive, modern Christendom.

They're wrong.

 
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Western secular progressives view Muslims as fellow travelers in their quest to overturn the existing order of things and muscle, both political and physical, to use against their opponents when convenient. Given their inclination toward moral equivalence these progressives naively think that once they've gotten their way they'll be able to contain the twin forces of sharia and jihad which have been unleashed upon our societies as a result of their policies, just as they have steadily worn down a far more passive, modern Christendom.

They're wrong.
Is this what conservatives worry about, the "existing order of things" being turned over? The existing order of things has been turned over with great regularity since the dawn of civilization. 

 
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Is this what conservatives worry about, the "existing order of thing" being turned over? The existing order of things has been turned over with great regularity since the dawn of civilization. 
yeah, but this time they got it right and want it to stay that way.   :oldunsure:

 
Western secular progressives view Muslims as fellow travelers in their quest to overturn the existing order of things and muscle, both political and physical, to use against their opponents when convenient. Given their inclination toward moral equivalence these progressives naively think that once they've gotten their way they'll be able to contain the twin forces of sharia and jihad which have been unleashed upon our societies as a result of their policies, just as they have steadily worn down a far more passive, modern Christendom.

They're wrong.
Ooof

 
And I suppose it's also bigoted of me to mention the stories I hear from my wife at least once a week (she screens patients in  a hospital) where a Muslim couple comes in and she cannot address the woman because the man speaks for her.  I guess you'd rather oppose my "bigotry" than take a stand against that, right?
Yes, it is bigoted. At least admitting a problem is the first step in overcoming it. Maybe try tolerating the customs of individuals who may be different than you, rather than passing judgement on, grouping, and labeling people ad nauseum.

 
Western secular progressives view Muslims as fellow travelers in their quest to overturn the existing order of things and muscle, both political and physical, to use against their opponents when convenient. Given their inclination toward moral equivalence these progressives naively think that once they've gotten their way they'll be able to contain the twin forces of sharia and jihad which have been unleashed upon our societies as a result of their policies, just as they have steadily worn down a far more passive, modern Christendom.

They're wrong.
This post spells out the very real dangers of huffing paint

 
It's all the sputter of decaying entities.

Playing the age card again, i've been around since the world was made of people who believed what their father believed, that his father believed, etc etc. It was a daily presence, as benevolent as ubiquitous. Even in my multi-ethnic neighborhood, among my Irish relatives who countered bigotry with wikkid####inbiggah bigotry, a person's devotion was a focus, a comfort, a force without one word across the faiths of actual 'my God's better than your God'. Even the Boston Brahmin Mayflower descendants who thought of the micks, dagos. spics as gum on their shoe didnt believe that Catholics, fellow Christians, were heathens - Hellbound, unsaved - the way fundamentalists do today.

The last fifty years of dissolution of belief has reduced Christianity from command to community to cause and you can chart the aggression directly along with the desperation of eminence. Islam has eminence still and could be supremely powerful for at least the century their homeland is behind the West were they to remain insular, but they cant wait to nova & sputter. They will.

As one who believes in the perfectability of mankind,  i try to stay ahead of these curves. I can't believe the place it has brought me. I was mildly astounded to watch a world free to believe what it wanted choose to believe in nothing - unless bodyart & artisan food, Fox News & Clown Posses, Roll Tide & frikkin Patriots, games & memes are belief systems - but flabbergasted that i miss private, personal devotion and peer, parish pressure's regulation of behavior & care. We're not going to figure out the God thing, time trying is wasted, but the people part of creation neeeeds communities of devotion, gratitude, charity, consensus, whether in the name of God or not, as much as ever. Time to stop arguing over the steaming husks of agrarian myths and start caring for each other again.

 
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Western secular progressives view Muslims as fellow travelers in their quest to overturn the existing order of things and muscle, both political and physical, to use against their opponents when convenient. Given their inclination toward moral equivalence these progressives naively think that once they've gotten their way they'll be able to contain the twin forces of sharia and jihad which have been unleashed upon our societies as a result of their policies, just as they have steadily worn down a far more passive, modern Christendom.

They're wrong.
Holy #### is this a good post.   :thumbup:

 
It's all the sputter of decaying entities.

Playing the age card again, i've been around since the world was made of people who believed what their father believed, that his father believed, etc etc. It was a daily presence, as benevolent as ubiquitous. Even in my multi-ethnic neighborhood, among my Irish relatives who countered bigotry with wikkid####inbiggah bigotry, a person's devotion was a focus, a comfort, a force without one word across the faiths of actual 'my God's better than your God'. Even the Boston Brahmin Mayflower descendants who thought of the micks, dagos. spics as gum on their shoe didnt believe that Catholics, fellow Christians, were heathens - Hellbound, unsaved - the way fundamentalists do today.

The last fifty years of dissolution of belief has reduced Christianity from command to community to cause and you can chart the aggression directly along with the desperation of eminence. Islam has eminence still and could be supremely powerful for at least the century their homeland is behind the West were they to remain insular, but they cant wait to nova & sputter. They will.

As one who believes in the perfectability of mankind,  i try to stay ahead of these curves. I can't believe the place it has brought me. I was mildly astounded to watch a world free to believe what it wanted choose to believe in nothing - unless bodyart & artisan food, Fox News & Clown Posses, Roll Tide & frikkin Patriots, games & memes are belief systems - but flabbergasted that i miss private, personal devotion and peer, parish pressure's regulation of behavior & care. We're not going to figure out the God thing, time trying is wasted, but the people part of creation neeeeds communities of devotion, gratitude, charity, consensus, whether in the name of God or not, as much as ever. Time to stop arguing over the steaming husks of agrarian myths and start caring for each other again.
And you think unassimilated multiculturalism is going facilitate the building of such a consensus?  And you think Islam can assimilate into Western culture and it's cornerstone principle of tolerance?  No friggin way on both questions.  You are swimming against the tide if you believe this.  We are tribalists by nature.  It is written into our DNA code.

 
And you think unassimilated multiculturalism is going facilitate the building of such a consensus?  And you think Islam can assimilate into Western culture and it's cornerstone principle of tolerance?  No friggin way on both questions.  You are swimming against the tide if you believe this.  We are tribalists by nature.  It is written into our DNA code.
Apparently, reading comprehension isnt written into yours

 
Apparently, reading comprehension isnt written into yours
:lmao:  My reading comprehension was is just fine.  Not my fault you can't communicate a thought clearly or succinctly.  Here's a hint - quit trying to sound smart.  And use punctuation every once in a while.  You can do it.   :thumbup:

 
:lmao:  My reading comprehension was is just fine.  Not my fault you can't communicate a thought clearly or succinctly.  Here's a hint - quit trying to sound smart.  And use punctuation every once in a while.  You can do it.   :thumbup:
I'm willing to bet I know a LOT more about fustian bluster than you, chief, and your shtick is but blunder.

 
It's all the sputter of decaying entities.

Playing the age card again, i've been around since the world was made of people who believed what their father believed, that his father believed, etc etc. It was a daily presence, as benevolent as ubiquitous. Even in my multi-ethnic neighborhood, among my Irish relatives who countered bigotry with wikkid####inbiggah bigotry, a person's devotion was a focus, a comfort, a force without one word across the faiths of actual 'my God's better than your God'. Even the Boston Brahmin Mayflower descendants who thought of the micks, dagos. spics as gum on their shoe didnt believe that Catholics, fellow Christians, were heathens - Hellbound, unsaved - the way fundamentalists do today.

The last fifty years of dissolution of belief has reduced Christianity from command to community to cause and you can chart the aggression directly along with the desperation of eminence. Islam has eminence still and could be supremely powerful for at least the century their homeland is behind the West were they to remain insular, but they cant wait to nova & sputter. They will.

As one who believes in the perfectability of mankind,  i try to stay ahead of these curves. I can't believe the place it has brought me. I was mildly astounded to watch a world free to believe what it wanted choose to believe in nothing - unless bodyart & artisan food, Fox News & Clown Posses, Roll Tide & frikkin Patriots, games & memes are belief systems - but flabbergasted that i miss private, personal devotion and peer, parish pressure's regulation of behavior & care. We're not going to figure out the God thing, time trying is wasted, but the people part of creation neeeeds communities of devotion, gratitude, charity, consensus, whether in the name of God or not, as much as ever. Time to stop arguing over the steaming husks of agrarian myths and start caring for each other again.
Beautiful.  You're part Irish, right?  A lot more Yeats than Joyce, imo.

ETA; just saw a criticism about your punctuation, or lack thereof...maybe more Joyce?

jk.

 
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Is she allowed to speak English?
Often the situation is reversed and the wife does all the speaking because the husband has poor English. Often, they have an older child (son or daughter) that does the speaking because of both parents have limited English. No different then the hispanic immigrants I work with. Muslim women work, talk and go about their business freely. Many you wouldn't even now were Muslim. Your perceptions of Muslim Americans living in SE Michigan seem way off. 

 
Beautiful.  You're part Irish, right?  A lot more Yeats than Joyce, imo.

ETA; just saw a criticism about your punctuation, or lack thereof...maybe more Joyce?

jk.
Me 92yo ma, whose bottom i wipe daily in return of service, came over from Dun Laoghaire @ 14yo. She's as shanty as they come, though she's only myself & me pixilated 91yo da to keep her Book of Grudges on these days.

ETA: Thx for the notice. I've a Sligo heart & Dublin head, so i'll have a wee bit of each for me pudding

 
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Often the situation is reversed and the wife does all the speaking because the husband has poor English. Often, they have an older child (son or daughter) that does the speaking because of both parents have limited English. No different then the hispanic immigrants I work with. Muslim women work, talk and go about their business freely. Many you wouldn't even now were Muslim. Your perceptions of Muslim Americans living in SE Michigan seem way off. 
But does the Mexican husband make his mamacita wear a poncho over her face in public?

 
Me 92yo ma, whose bottom i wipe daily in return of service, came over from Dun Laoghaire @ 14yo. She's as shanty as they come, though she's only myself & me pixilated 91yo da to keep her Book of Grudges on these days.
See?  That's why I always preferred Beckett over Joyce...

 
But does the Mexican husband make his mamacita wear a poncho over her face in public?
First off, not all Muslim women wear head coverings- it is a matter of how they interpret the Koran (Koran calls for modesty in dress). Also, I've known females that have wore it and later stopped. Many of the women choose to wear the covering and enjoy it. Obviously more extreme coverings exist, but I have never met a woman that wore anything more than a hijab or dupatta (scarvescovering hair, nothing covering face). Many women choose to wear it as it's part of their culture. It's not all being forced on them. 

 
When people realize that when you die you don't go to a better place, they will finally decide to make THIS world the better place.  I don't expect this to happen in my lifetime, but I can hope.
You people that think a world without religion is the answer are very, very naive and do not understand your fellow humans very well.  Religion is used to do evil, not the other way around.  We are the problem, not our beliefs in God and the afterlife.  There are examples of evil behavior and horrible human rights violations from all points on the religion spectrum.

 
Yes, it is bigoted. At least admitting a problem is the first step in overcoming it. Maybe try tolerating the customs of individuals who may be different than you, rather than passing judgement on, grouping, and labeling people ad nauseum.
The old moral relativism argument.  Absolute hogwash.  No, I don't have to accept any customs that I believe are immoral.  Islam's widespread misogynistic practices belong in the Dark Ages.  Gotta love the Lefty hypocrisy on the issue of women's rights.  So phony.

 
You people that think a world without religion is the answer are very, very naive and do not understand your fellow humans very well.  Religion is used to do evil, not the other way around.  We are the problem, not our beliefs in God and the afterlife.  There are examples of evil behavior and horrible human rights violations from all points on the religion spectrum.
Belief is the blood of the soul. I give fantasy gymnastics more thought than God, yet belief is the most important part of me and the reason i've often encouraged others who were unhappy to go more deeply into their faith. Whether any god ever described is real has no influence on my sense that we are all to benefit from acting to be worthy of One's attention. And the awe i feel to have the chance to do this, here, today keeps me small, makes me enormous.

 
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