ESPN hacks vote on the Top 125 players ever (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

The voting process:

• Any player who is in the Hall of Fame, on the ballot or is among the top 150 hitters or pitchers in greatness above replacement (GAR) -- a combination of career and peak wins above replacement -- was on the ballot. While the metric is not perfect, a ballot based on Baseball Reference's WAR leaders with more than 300 names that includes every Hall of Famer is not going to leave off anyone in the discussion of the top 100 players of all time. (GAR is a metric developed by Dan Szymborski, and you can read more about it if you scroll to the bottom.)

• We asked our panel of 30-plus experts -- which included Jayson Stark, Buster Olney, Keith Law, Doug Glanville, Tim Kurkjian and Jerry Crasnick, among others -- to give each player a score of 0-100, in increments of 5. We also asked them to give only one player a score of 100, whomever they think is the greatest player ever.

Grading guideline

0-20: A fine player, but he should not be in the discussion of the top 100 of all time

25-40: Great, but not great enough

45-60: I can live with him being in the top 100, but I don't agree

65-80: Definitely a case for the 100

85-100: This person is definitely in the top 100

• When grading active players, we asked them to grade based on how you would if their career ended today. (We plan to revisit this in years to come, yet will keep the body limited to 100. So if someone moves in, everyone gets bumped down and possibly out.)

• We asked them to judge these players based purely on their on-field performance, and only consider their performance in MLB. And because we based our ballot purely on stats in the American or National League, we did not consider players who only played abroad or in the Negro League.

• Reminder: There is no character clause. We do not care if they might have gambled on the game or taken PEDs. Nor do we care if they devoted time and money to charity. Again, this is only about performance on the field.

• Once we had everyone's scores, we tallied them up and ranked players based on their average score.

And now... the mostly absurd list.

Top 100 Players

1. Babe Ruth

2. Willie Mays

3. Barry Bonds

4. Ted Williams

5. Hank Aaron

6. Ty Cobb

7. Roger Clemens

8. Stan Musial

9. Mickey Mantle

10. Honus Wagner

11. Lou Gehrig

12. Walter Johnson

13. Greg Maddux

14. Rickey Henderson

15. Rogers Hornsby

16. Mike Schmidt

17. Cy Young

18. Alex Rodriguez

19. Albert Pujols

20. Joe Morgan

21. Joe DiMaggio

22. Frank Robinson

23. Randy Johnson

24. Tom Seaver

25. Tris Speaker

26. Steve Carlton

27. Johnny Bench

28. Jimmie Foxx

29. Christy Mathewson

30. George Brett

31. Cal Ripken Jr.

32. Bob Gibson

33. Roberto Clemente

34. Ken Griffey Jr.

35. Nolan Ryan

36. Mel Ott

37. Pete Rose

38. Derek Jeter

39. Eddie Mathews

40. Carl Yastrzemski

41. Pedro Martinez

42. Eddie Collins

43. Brooks Robinson

44. Sandy Koufax

45. Warren Spahn

46. Al Kaline

47. Lefty Grove

48. Nap Lajoie

49. Chipper Jones

50. Pete Alexander

51. Ernie Banks

52. Jackie Robinson

53. Rod Carew

54. Wade Boggs

55. Reggie Jackson

56. Yogi Berra

57. Willie McCovey

58. Robin Yount

59. Bob Feller

60. Ozzie Smith

61. Tony Gwynn

62. Ferguson Jenkins

63. Hank Greenberg

64. Harmon Killebrew

65. Eddie Murray

66. Gaylord Perry

67. Mariano Rivera

68. Jeff Bagwell

69. Frank Thomas

70. Juan Marichal

71. Ivan Rodriguez

72. Bert Blyleven

73. Roberto Alomar

74. Barry Larkin

75. John Smoltz

76. Carlton Fisk

77. Paul Molitor

78. Mike Piazza

79. Robin Roberts

80. Charlie Gehringer

81. Duke Snider

82. Kid Nichols

83. Mark McGwire

84. Willie Stargell

85. Manny Ramirez

86. Gary Carter

87. Frankie Frisch

88. Cap Anson

89. Jim Palmer

90. Craig Biggio

91. Paul Waner

92. Roy Halladay

93. Tom Glavine

94. Jim Thome

95. Sammy Sosa

96. Tim Raines

97. Ron Santo

98. Joe Cronin

99. Al Simmons

100. Phil Niekro

Honorable Mentions

101. Luke Appling

102. Joe Jackson

103. Eddie Plank

104. Dave Winfield

105. Curt Schilling

106. Whitey Ford

107. Johnny Mize

108. Rafael Palmeiro

109. Don Sutton

110. Harry Heilmann

111. Pud Galvin

112. Ryne Sandberg

113. Bill Dickey

114. George Sisler

115. Tim Keefe

116. Dennis Eckersley

117. Sam Crawford

118. Lou Boudreau

119. Rube Waddell

120. Billy Williams

121. Ed Delahanty

122. Edgar Martinez

123. Don Drysdale

124. Arky Vaughan

125. Roy Campanella

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?

Bonds at #3?

Gehrig not in the Top-5?

Palmer behind Blyleven?

Clemens at #7?

Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/feature/video/_/id/8652210/espn-hall-100-ranking-all-time-greatest-mlb-players

This is truly awful.

 

[Mentos]

Henderson at #14 is pretty bad.

 

[Raider Nation]

I missed Seaver's prime, but shouldn't he be higher than Maddux? Maybe Eephus can weigh in.

 

[Eephus]

I missed Seaver's prime, but shouldn't he be higher than Maddux? Maybe Eephus can weigh in.

John Kruk at #68 seems a bit aggressive

 

[cheese]

Yes, Bagwell is the single worst one. I would take Eckersley for example over him without thinking twice. Dime a dozen power hitting 1B during his era.

Over McGwire/Sosa too? We're either writing them off for steroids and they belong off the list or they belong far above Jeff Bagwell.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yes, Bagwell is the single worst one. I would take Eckersley for example over him without thinking twice. Dime a dozen power hitting 1B during his era.Over McGwire/Sosa too? We're either writing them off for steroids and they belong off the list or they belong far above Jeff Bagwell.

They still have Barry Bonds @ #3.

 

[Sammy3469]

I missed Seaver's prime, but shouldn't he be higher than Maddux? Maybe Eephus can weigh in.

Wat?

 

[whoknew]

Yes, Bagwell is the single worst one. I would take Eckersley for example over him without thinking twice. Dime a dozen power hitting 1B during his era.

Over McGwire/Sosa too? We're either writing them off for steroids and they belong off the list or they belong far above Jeff Bagwell.

Not even close to true. Bagwell was an absolute stud. He has a .408 career OBP and 200 SBs and was a plus defender at 1B.

 

[whoknew]

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?Bonds at #3?Gehrig not in the Top-5?Palmer behind Blyleven? Clemens at #7?Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?http://espn.go.com/mlb/feature/video/_/id/8652210/espn-hall-100-ranking-all-time-greatest-mlb-playersThis is truly awful.

Why is it a joke Bonds is #3? Or Clemens 7? Or Palmer is behind Blyleven?

 

[oso diablo]

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?Bonds at #3?Gehrig not in the Top-5?Palmer behind Blyleven? Clemens at #7?Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?This is truly awful.

don't have a problem with any of those.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?Bonds at #3?Gehrig not in the Top-5?Palmer behind Blyleven? Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?This is truly awful.

don't have a problem with any of those.

Palmer definitely>Blyleven and I like the top six for sure although the orders could be debated (I have Cobb 2). 1. Babe Ruth2. Ty Cobb3. Barry Bonds4. Ted Williams5. Honus Wagner6. Willie Mays7. Hank Aaron8. Stan Musial9. Mickey Mantle10. Walter JohnsonI'd have no issue with Gehrig, Hornsby or even Tris Speaker in the top ten.

Clemens at #7?

Not sure about this one. I'd have Randy Johnson ahead of Cleeons and Walter Johnson and Cristy Mathewson as well. Cy Young pretty high on that list, Bob Gibson too IMO and Yaz way too high. Koufax and Lajoie too low.

 

[Don Quixote]

For non-substantive talk on this list, the Old Hoss Radbourn thread here, and twitter feed, are must reads.

 

[Eephus]

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?Bonds at #3?Gehrig not in the Top-5?Palmer behind Blyleven? Clemens at #7?Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?This is truly awful.

don't have a problem with any of those.

The guys who really got shortchanged by the rankings are all dead and buried. That's not surprising given the methodology. People tend to vote for players that they saw first hand.It's not a terrible list. It generates some discussion during a slow part of the baseball calendar. Whether you agree with the exact numeric rankings or not, it does hammer home the HoF controversy in no uncertain terms. Two of the top ten all-time players are on the ballot but their chances for induction are about the same as Jack Morris'.

 

[Eephus]

Clemens at #7?

Not sure about this one. I'd have Randy Johnson ahead of Cleeons and Walter Johnson and Cristy Mathewson as well. Cy Young pretty high on that list, Bob Gibson too IMO and Yaz way too high. Koufax and Lajoie too low.

Pitchers generally got screwed (at least in comparison to an all-time WIS draft). Only one in the top ten, and four in the top twenty.Pete Alexander at #50 is the most questionable call to me.

 

[the moops]

I'd have Randy Johnson ahead of Clemens

Curious why?Clemens had a higher peak, a longer career, has more wines, a lower ERA, etc.He is a much bigger dooosh obviously, but the only thing that Randy Johnson did better was strike a couple more guys out a game.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'd have Randy Johnson ahead of Clemens

Curious why?Clemens had a higher peak, a longer career, has more wines, a lower ERA, etc.He is a much bigger dooosh obviously, but the only thing that Randy Johnson did better was strike a couple more guys out a game.

Because there were seasons Johnson was almost unhittable. Maddux and Clemens were consistently great, Johnson was consistently great and just a rare talent. Five straight seasons with 300 Ks, 10-1 in the second half of '98 with Houston, the World Series performance in 2001, 372 Ks that year and four straight Cy Youngs where he was just untouchable. It's more than just raw numbers, it's impact. Clemens never dominated like Johnson did, Johnson was Koufax/Bob Gibson esque.

 

[Raider Nation]

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?Bonds at #3?Gehrig not in the Top-5?Palmer behind Blyleven? Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?This is truly awful.

don't have a problem with any of those.

You're fine with Joe Morgan being ranked as the 20th-best player in MLB history?

 

[the moops]

Where do you think Morgan should be ranked?

 

[Raider Nation]

Where do you think Morgan should be ranked?

Somewhere in the low 40s.

 

[Raider Nation]

I missed Seaver's prime, but shouldn't he be higher than Maddux? Maybe Eephus can weigh in.

Wat?

Their regular season numbers are similar across the board, and Maddux's postseason numbers are below average (for him). I guess I have more of a problem with Maddux being 11 spots ahead of Seaver than I do with Maddux being ranked 13th.

 

[Raider Nation]

Yes, Bagwell is the single worst one. I would take Eckersley for example over him without thinking twice. Dime a dozen power hitting 1B during his era.Over McGwire/Sosa too? We're either writing them off for steroids and they belong off the list or they belong far above Jeff Bagwell.

They still have Barry Bonds @ #3.

The voters were told to ignore the issue of PEDs. Maybe they can, but I won't.Henry Aaron is still the Home Run King as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm not sure what to laugh at the most.Morgan at #20?Bonds at #3?Gehrig not in the Top-5?Palmer behind Blyleven? Joe D. being 19 spots behind Mays?This is truly awful.

don't have a problem with any of those.

You're fine with Joe Morgan being ranked as the 20th-best player in MLB history?

Maybe around 30 would be better but 20 is not really a stretch. He was considered the best offensive and defensive player in baseball for several years, and probably is the second best 2Bman ever. He drove in 100 runs as a leadoff hitter one year, five straight gold gloves and 58+ steal seasons, twice led the league in OPS, and had six straight years leading the league in offensive WAR. As long as Hornsby (and maybe Jeff Kent) are rated about him in these rankings, they seem ok.

I missed Seaver's prime, but shouldn't he be higher than Maddux?

Seaver is the most underrated pitcher besides Pete Alexander all-time IMO, he and Maddux were not far apart to be honest. I think the tie-breaker is actually Maddux having a phenomenal 18 gold gloves. They wren't all that similar in style but they both finished in the top ten in a lot of categories, and they both played on some really good teams.

 

[Raider Nation]

I often wonder how much credit should be given to a pitcher who won Gold Gloves. Aside from the one comebacker per game, what can a pitcher possibly do defensively to set himself apart from a pitcher who didn't win the award?

Any other position, saying "and he won 11 Gold Gloves" carries a lot of weight.

(No offense, Mr. Kaat)

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I often wonder how much credit should be given to a pitcher who won Gold Gloves. Aside from the one comebacker per game, what can a pitcher possibly do defensively to set himself apart from a pitcher who didn't win the award?

Any other position, saying "and he won 11 Gold Gloves" carries a lot of weight.

(No offense, Mr. Kaat)

Pretty sure they bunt in the NL. Great fielding pitcher worth his weight in gold IMO.

 

[Raider Nation]

I often wonder how much credit should be given to a pitcher who won Gold Gloves. Aside from the one comebacker per game, what can a pitcher possibly do defensively to set himself apart from a pitcher who didn't win the award?

Any other position, saying "and he won 11 Gold Gloves" carries a lot of weight.

(No offense, Mr. Kaat)

Pretty sure they bunt in the NL. Great fielding pitcher worth his weight in gold IMO.

I guess. Covering 1st base instinctively is important too.

 

[whoknew]

Yes, Bagwell is the single worst one. I would take Eckersley for example over him without thinking twice. Dime a dozen power hitting 1B during his era.Over McGwire/Sosa too? We're either writing them off for steroids and they belong off the list or they belong far above Jeff Bagwell.

They still have Barry Bonds @ #3.

The voters were told to ignore the issue of PEDs. Maybe they can, but I won't.Henry Aaron is still the Home Run King as far as I'm concerned.

So Barry's PEDs are bad.But Hank's PEDs are totally fine?

 

[Daywalker]

I missed Seaver's prime, but shouldn't he be higher than Maddux? Maybe Eephus can weigh in.

John Kruk at #68 seems a bit aggressive

 

[guru_007]

Babe Ruth at 1? Guy only won one MVP award

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Babe Ruth at 1? Guy only won one MVP award

Cy Young also seems ranked kind of high for someone who didn't win a single Cy Young award.

 

[Eephus]

I often wonder how much credit should be given to a pitcher who won Gold Gloves. Aside from the one comebacker per game, what can a pitcher possibly do defensively to set himself apart from a pitcher who didn't win the award?

Any other position, saying "and he won 11 Gold Gloves" carries a lot of weight.

(No offense, Mr. Kaat)

Pretty sure they bunt in the NL. Great fielding pitcher worth his weight in gold IMO.

Jonathan Broxton would be worth $7,874,080, which is pretty close to his $7M annual salary

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I often wonder how much credit should be given to a pitcher who won Gold Gloves. Aside from the one comebacker per game, what can a pitcher possibly do defensively to set himself apart from a pitcher who didn't win the award?

Any other position, saying "and he won 11 Gold Gloves" carries a lot of weight.

(No offense, Mr. Kaat)

Pretty sure they bunt in the NL. Great fielding pitcher worth his weight in gold IMO.

Jonathan Broxton would be worth $7,874,080, which is pretty close to his $7M annual salary

 

[Raider Nation]

Where is STEVE BALBONI, by the way???