ESPN's Mark Schlereth... No franchise QB's in this draft (1 Viewer)

[Bracie Smathers]

Just stumbled upon an interview that took place during the Super Bowl where a Cleveland sports radio guy corralled ESPN's Mark Schlereth for a quick interview and Mark had some interesting comments about the top ranked quarterbacks from this draft class when asked if he felt the Browns should take one of them with their first pick, #4, in the first round.

This is what Schereth had to say:

LINK to the podcast. They went over many other topics but this what he had to say about the top ranked quarterbacks for the 2014 NFL draft.

=====================

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=476&f=2405503

"I wouldn’t take any of the quarterbacks. Not that high. I wouldn’t take any of those guys.

Teddy Bridgewater, I met him. I think he is a wonderful young man but I’m telling you what I think he’s going to get broke in half. When I met him he looked 6’1 and 112 lbs when I met him at ESPN which scared me to death for him in the NFL.

Johnny Manziel ah? I don’t think you breed recklessness out of a player. Michael Vick is living proof he played one year where he’s played all sixteen games. Everybody says, well we’ll just teach him how to slide. I don’t believe you coach recklessness out just like you can’t coach toughness in. You’re either tough or you’re not. You can always get a lil bit better at things but I don’t know if you can coach that stuff so Johnny Manziel is reckless with his body so I don’t think he’ll last either.

Bortles is raw, um. I think there is more value after the first round, maybe at the end of the second round. Maybe a guy who will slip some because of his last name, Carr. David Carr’s little brother.

Derek Carr is a guy who has NFL talent caliber guy who might slip down to the second or third round. Maybe he’ll climb back up into late in the first round but ah I think you address other positions because I don’t think there is a franchise type quarterback in this draft."

 

[False Start]

Bortles is raw, um. I think there is more value after the first round, maybe at the end of the second round. Maybe a guy who will slip some because of his last name, Carr. David Carr’s little brother.

Great reasoning for his assessment. Do these talking heads ever get it right though?

 

[KellysHeroes]

sometimes these guys just say stuff to get in the news

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

The two Super Bowl teams and even all four teams in the NFC and AFC championship games did not use a first round pick on their quarterbacks.

Here is a list of all of the first round quarterbacks in the NFL.

The names are listed in decending order from their respective draft classes and I broke out the projected starters from guys who are not projected to start.

These are the quarterbacks drafted in the first round who are still playing. Many others are not so take a look at all of these first round quarterbacks still in the league going all the way back to the 1998 draft when Peyton Manning came into the league.

I think Schlereth is absolutely right about this year's rookie quarterback class.

=================

E.J. Manuel

Ryan Tannehill

Andrew Luck

Robert Griffin III

Cam Newton

Jake Locker

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

Jay Cutler

Alex Smith

Aaron Rodgers

Philip Rivers

Ben Roethlisberger

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

Peyton Manning

==========

Brandon Weeden

Christian Ponder

Blaine Gabbert

Josh Freeman

Jason Campbell

Michael Vick

 

[Donnybrook]

I doubt that there are many GMs willing to take draft advice from a radio personality who nickname is Stink.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Bridgewater is 6'3" and his weight is listed in the 195 lb area. His hips are slim which means he may not be able to maintain a wieght much higher than the 195 lbs he played at in college.

Johnny Manziel is listed at 6'1" and 210 lbs from his Texas A & M bio but its been widely reported his real hieght is 5'11".

Of the above listed first-round QBs, here are their listed hieght and weights to compare to Bridgewater and Manziel.

=========================================================

E.J. Manuel - 6' 4", 237

Ryan Tannehill - 6’4, 225

Andrew Luck - 6' 4", 239

Robert Griffin III - 6’2”, 217

Cam Newton - 6’5”, 245

Jake Locker - 6’3”, 223

Sam Bradford - 6’4”, 224

Matthew Stafford - 6’3”, 232

Matt Ryan - 6’4”, 217

Joe Flacco - 6’6, 245

Jay Cutler - 6’3”, 220

Alex Smith - 6’4”, 217

Aaron Rodgers - 6’2”, 225

Philip Rivers - 6’5”, 228

Ben Roethlisberger - 6’5”, 241

Eli Manning - 6’4”, 218

Carson Palmer - 6’5”, 235

Peyton Manning - 6’5”, 230

==========

Non-starters

Brandon Weeden - 6’3”, 220

Christian Ponder - 6’2”, 229

Blaine Gabbert - 6’4”, 235

Josh Freeman - 6’6, 240

Jason Campbell - 6’5”, 230

Michael Vick - 6’0, 215

Just on the basis of measureables the two top ranked QB prospects do not stack up.

Stink can see and he can state his opinion and I'm sure many around the league feel the same way.

 

[Bojang0301]

He can say they arnt first round caliber guys and it may even be a realistic assessment but it's going to happen. With the reduced rookie salary comes less resk and with less risk you can take a player at the most important NFL position even if he has more warts than other players.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I doubt that there are many GMs willing to take draft advice from a radio personality who nickname is Stink.

"Stinks advice" and "his advice stinks" are pretty close to the same thing.

 

[lod01]

He's right.

 

[mr roboto]

Bridgewater is 6'3" and his weight is listed in the 195 lb area. His hips are slim which means he may not be able to maintain a wieght much higher than the 195 lbs he played at in college.

Johnny Manziel is listed at 6'1" and 210 lbs from his Texas A & M bio but its been widely reported his real hieght is 5'11".

Of the above listed first-round QBs, here are their listed hieght and weights to compare to Bridgewater and Manziel.

=========================================================

E.J. Manuel - 6' 4", 237

Ryan Tannehill - 64, 225

Andrew Luck - 6' 4", 239

Robert Griffin III - 62, 217

Cam Newton - 65, 245

Jake Locker - 63, 223

Sam Bradford - 64, 224

Matthew Stafford - 63, 232

Matt Ryan - 64, 217

Joe Flacco - 66, 245

Jay Cutler - 63, 220

Alex Smith - 64, 217

Aaron Rodgers - 62, 225

Philip Rivers - 65, 228

Ben Roethlisberger - 65, 241

Eli Manning - 64, 218

Carson Palmer - 65, 235

Peyton Manning - 65, 230

==========

Non-starters

Brandon Weeden - 63, 220

Christian Ponder - 62, 229

Blaine Gabbert - 64, 235

Josh Freeman - 66, 240

Jason Campbell - 65, 230

Michael Vick - 60, 215

Just on the basis of measureables the two top ranked QB prospects do not stack up.

Stink can see and he can state his opinion and I'm sure many around the league feel the same way.

Surprised Flacco is bigger than Freeman, Newton and Big Ben

 

[Soulfly3]

right about the Qbs. the Browns arent taking one at #4

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The questions of Bridgewater's weight and Manziel's hieght are not new.

Schlereth did not make a provocative statement when he said that he would not take either one with a top-four pick.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/19/sports/la-sp-sn-johnny-manziel-nfl-20130919

Is Johnny Manziel too short to make it as an NFL quarterback?

... Only two other quarterbacks who measured 6-1 or under have been drafted in the first round during the modern era: Michael Vick and Rex Grossman.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000304701/article/teddy-bridgewater-a-secondrounder-afc-scout-says

Teddy Bridgewater 'a second-rounder,' AFC scout says

... Bridgewater is viewed by many as a potential No. 1 overall pick, but one AFC college director told NFL Media reporter Albert Breer that Bridgewater is "a second-rounder. Shorter and smallish in size, but he has solid arm strength, he's a good athlete, solid accuracy. Not dynamic or a special talent, but he has NFL starter-caliber skills, and he's a good kid with all the intangibles."

Another AFC scouting director said Bridgewater has a lot going for him: "He's accurate, poised, smart, productive."

But the scouting director also has issues with Bridgewater.

"The body type is the concern," he said. "You're going to have to see him at the combine. He looks small and skinny to me. But he gets rid of the ball so quick and makes such good decisions, maybe you can live with that."

Bridgewater is listed at 6-foot-3 and 196 pounds on Louisville's depth chart for the bowl game. He has not said yet whether he will enter the 2014 draft but said he will "evaluate everything" and make his decision after the bowl game.

 

[Tool]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

I think we all knew that.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

The two Super Bowl teams and even all four teams in the NFC and AFC championship games did not use a first round pick on their quarterbacks.

A little bit of recency bias here. 7 of the last 9 super bowl winning teams were led by a first round QB. The other two? Brees (1st pick in Second round) and Wilson both fell due to height concerns.

I'm not saying taking a QB in the first is always the way to go, but lets not look at just last year and make sweeping generalizations. I'd go back farther but we dip into the Brady years and I don't think taking 5th round QB and hoping they are Brady is a viable drafting strategy.

Drafting a 1st round qb = good (Rodgers, Luck, Griffin, Newton)

Reaching on a 1st round qb = bad (Ponder, Locker, Weeden)

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The question is whether or not the QBs being projected as high picks are worth being drafted high.

Here is Greg Cossell's take on Bridgewater and Manziel and Bortles.

Bottom line. He likes Bridgewater, he thinks Johnny Manziel is a leap of faith, doesn't feel Bortles is worth a top-ten pick.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://houston.cbslo...d-at-the-draft/

I like Teddy Bridgewater. I think he’s the kind of QB that knows how to play. His offense used NFL pass route combinations. His offense used NFL protections.

The only thing that people will look at Teddy Bridgewater on, well there’s, two things. Their’s his size. Because my guess is that he’ll measure 6’1” not 6’3”. Ah, his build. And ah, he does not have a gun, he’s got a good arm. I would say he’s a little bit of a short armer which limits his ability to drive the ball down the field.

I’d say he’s more of a precision quarterback who can throw off movement, he’s not a sit in the pocket, drive the ball downfield passer.

So I think for a lot of people, ya know. I like him but he’s not a great arm talent.

Q: Host said he had Daniel Jeremiah on and DJ compared him to a Sam Bradford or a Matt Ryan type of talent.

Cossell: Bridgewater? Wow. I know Daniel well and I don’t see him as either one.

Bradford is a big physical kid with a strong arm. And Matt Ryan’s arm is not as strong but Matt Ryan is a 6’5 ya know, 235 lb guy. (not true see above he’s actually 6’4” and 217 lbs) Bridgewater is going to be 6’1 and a half and 195 lbs. So I don’t see those comparisons at all.

But, but I like Bridgewater and if you structure an offense and you feel good about the way he throws it and he throws it fine, you know he doesn’t have a gun but he throws it fine. Then I can see him being a quality NFL starter then you got need to get to know the kid. I don’t know the kid, I hear good things about him. But I think he’s going to be a quality NFL starter.

=========================

Q: Johnny Manziel

Cossell: Overall here’s what Manziel is to me and I’ve seen a lot of him.

He’s a small quarterback with outstanding movement and improvisation. He shows occasional flashes of structured pocket play but not many.

To me he’s a leap of faith.

One thing that bothers me when I watch Manziel is. Once you get a feel for a team’s offense and watch enough plays you begin to understand the route concepts and where the ball should go and he did not have a very good sense of his own offense.

Their were clearly called, designed plays that where there and he did not throw the ball. And that bothered me.

He’s gonna be taught a new offense in the NFL but that bothered me because you would think he would understand his offense. Um you watch enough Texas A&M, you see very few structured plays. Their’s almost no drop backs he plants and throws with timing.

HOST OF PROGRAM: Interesting

Cossell: Now again. If, if, if, you think you can win with a guy who can play consistently out of structure, and by the way there are smart reasonable people who believe this. If you believe that, then he may be your guy. Ya know you’re drafting a player you’re not drafting a team.

So you look at guys, you look at Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick. By NFL standards, the Seahawks and the 49ers have unproductive NFL passing games. They’re on great teams. So when you evaluate a player. Aren’t you evaluating the player?

　

HOST: Makes sense. (Did a promo for the station) Asked about Bortles.

Cossell: Yeah, I’ve watched a few games of his and I’d say he’s got tools to work with but he’s not a special talent or a special thrower. Ya know you have to remember one thing. Six or seven teams in the top eleven picks need quarterbacks. And that is going to make teams draft the position as opposed to the player.

When I look at these players I’m not really thinking of putting a draft board together. … what I believe are the plays, the attributes the characteristics of what it takes to play in the NFL.

If you draft a kid in the top-ten are you not essentially expecting him to be an All-Pro quarterback?

So that’s what I’m looking at if I’m drafting six then I’m expecting Blake Bortles to be an All-Pro quarterback, a Pro Bowl quarterback in a couple of years. Am I right?

===================

Q: Ryan Mallett and Kirk Cousins

Cossell: Mallett big, BIG TIME arm. Can make every throw, can drive the ball downfield. When he came out, needed a lot of work on pocket awareness. His ability to move within the pocket. You need to move within the pocket if you are a pocket QB like Mallett. He needed to show the ability to move and reset and keep his eyes downfield. I don’t know if he stands on those issues since he’s not played.

Cousins, he falls into the category of not being able to make throws with his arm strength. there are throws he’s not going to be able to make.

　

　

　

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

The two Super Bowl teams and even all four teams in the NFC and AFC championship games did not use a first round pick on their quarterbacks.

A little bit of recency bias here. 7 of the last 9 super bowl winning teams were led by a first round QB. The other two? Brees (1st pick in Second round) and Wilson both fell due to height concerns.

I'm not saying taking a QB in the first is always the way to go, but lets not look at just last year and make sweeping generalizations. I'd go back farther but we dip into the Brady years and I don't think taking 5th round QB and hoping they are Brady is a viable drafting strategy.

Drafting a 1st round qb = good (Rodgers, Luck, Griffin, Newton)

Reaching on a 1st round qb = bad (Ponder, Locker, Weeden)

Plus while Denver didn't draft a first round QB, they were starting one. It's not like teams can hope to get a first round talent in free agency whenever they want.

 

[ghostguy123]

right about the Qbs. the Browns arent taking one at #4

I think you are wrong..................but I sure hope you are right.

 

[FUBAR]

The two Super Bowl teams and even all four teams in the NFC and AFC championship games did not use a first round pick on their quarterbacks.

Sure, teams should just borrow the Broncos model of signing a top 5 all time QB after he comes off injury and his old team looks to draft the next elite QB.

Kaep was the 36th pick, so pretty close to 1st round. Wilson should have gone in the 1st but teams questioned his size and 2012 was a banner year for QBs.

So while you're right, I don't think the analysis is especially useful.

Stink's right although more verbose than I'd feel comfortable; Bortles and Carr could develop into franchise QBs and while I wouldn't draft Manziel top 10, I'd love to see him in Houston, Minnesota or Kansas City. KC won't happen of course.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Stink's resume and past qualifications on franchise QB's goes without saying.

 

[BassNBrew]

Stink's resume and past qualifications on franchise QB's goes without saying.

It really doesn't when I don't know what it is.

 

[Evil G]

Perhaps trying to steer this thread down the road of fantasy relevance:

If three or four of these guys do happen to go in the 1st round, they will eventually be given every opportunity to succeed.

Look at Bradford - he's had it going on for like what? four or five games in his career?, hurt or sucking out for the rest. And the guys who have him in my Dynasty leagues still think he's going break out any time now. Surely it's do or die time for Sam, but he'll have had five years as a starter to become what he's gonna become: average or worse. Alex Smith had seven seasons to do the same.

Five years is a long time in Fantasy, and Bradford is still very Dynasty relevant.

• young
• possible that this is finally the year he emerges
• valuable in a SuperFlex even as merely average

Extending this same thinking to Bridgewater, Johnny, Bortles, and possibly Carr: their individual flaws do not matter. What matters is their draft position (1st round versus 3rd or later) and team situation. To wit, Geno Smith, who has many flaws and got drafted into arguably the worst QB slot in pro football, was drafted at the 2.02 in a SuperFlex dynasty, because we knew he was gonna get his chance.

If drafted into the NFL to be a starter, Bridge, Carr, Bort and Johnny will all be gone by the end of the 2nd round in Dynasty rookie drafts. Whichever one goes to Houston could be a monster in Year Two, and turn Hopkins into a superstar.

Therefore I would take that guy at the 1.05 to 1.07, perhaps compared to Luck, a no-miss prospect that went at 1.03.

Now we're talking FF Draft strategy instead of pointless conjecture about QB flaws.

Let the NFL GMs worry about flaws - I want an edge on the chumps in my pool.

 

[Donnybrook]

I am encouraged by what little they have bad to say about Blake Bortles.

Stink: "Bortles is raw, um." No ####. He is a junior. I am sure they called Big Ben, who came out as a junior, raw as well.

Greg Cossell: "not a special talent or a special thrower." What does that mean exactly? I would guess that most rookie QBs could be decribed that way including Joe Montana and Tom Brady.

 

[Eminence]

Boyd?

 

[Donnybrook]

Boyd?

I been listening to many scouts at the Senior Bowl. Almost all are down on Boyd. Some are saying he shouldn't get drafted and others are calling him a 6th round pick.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

The two Super Bowl teams and even all four teams in the NFC and AFC championship games did not use a first round pick on their quarterbacks.

A little bit of recency bias here. 7 of the last 9 super bowl winning teams were led by a first round QB. The other two? Brees (1st pick in Second round) and Wilson both fell due to height concerns.

I'm not saying taking a QB in the first is always the way to go, but lets not look at just last year and make sweeping generalizations. I'd go back farther but we dip into the Brady years and I don't think taking 5th round QB and hoping they are Brady is a viable drafting strategy.

Drafting a 1st round qb = good (Rodgers, Luck, Griffin, Newton)

Reaching on a 1st round qb = bad (Ponder, Locker, Weeden)

Plus while Denver didn't draft a first round QB, they were starting one. It's not like teams can hope to get a first round talent in free agency whenever they want.

Going back to the question of whether or not any of these quarterbacks is worth a high draft pick.

Obviously Peyton Manning was. Their isn't a Peyton Manning in this draft class.

I have seen in various place that some have attempted to make a Russell Wilson = Johnny Manziel type of argument but Russell Wilson has no character questions and his footwork is cleaner and he had no issues learning his offensive system and he plays within the system. So I don't think that is a reasonable argument. Stink's take on Manziel echos Greg Cossell's take and Greg Cossell gave a fantastic breakdown on Manziel.

Bridgewater has a high floor but a low ceiling due to his body type. Their are legitmate concerns on his body type and the lack of confidence that he can add weight to his frame. I've seen other reports that what you see with Teddy is what you get, IOWs he played in a pro-type offense where he was versed in NFL type route trees and NFL type of pass protetion schemes so their isn;'t as much projected upside with his game. Basically he looks like the 'safetst' pick of this QB crop and once again Greg Cossell broke his game down very-well.

Bortles? The bottom line I see with Blake is the question of accuracy. If I'm drafitng a quarterback in the top-ten I can't have any quuestions on his accuracy, none whatsoever but I have that question with Blake.

Carr might get taken late in the first or high in the second and that seems like a reasonable value.

------------------------------------

Per fantasy relevance.

Bridgewater seems like he will be an 'ok' starting NFL QB.

Johnny Manziel 'could' blow up and turn into fantasy gold but even if he proves many wrong and he can play within a structured NFL system the questions of durabitly have come from everywhere I've looked on Manziel. The upside is there but expect that he won't play every game.

Outside of the top-two guys I think you can lump Bortles and Carr together for fantasy purposes.

Least that is how I see it.

 

[mr roboto]

I have a feeling that this draft will produce a couple guys like Hasselbeck, Flacco, Alex Smith types. Maybe 1 star, but lots of decent depth.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Perhaps trying to steer this thread down the road of fantasy relevance:

If three or four of these guys do happen to go in the 1st round, they will eventually be given every opportunity to succeed.

Look at Bradford - he's had it going on for like what? four or five games in his career?, hurt or sucking out for the rest. And the guys who have him in my Dynasty leagues still think he's going break out any time now. Surely it's do or die time for Sam, but he'll have had five years as a starter to become what he's gonna become: average or worse. Alex Smith had seven seasons to do the same.

Five years is a long time in Fantasy, and Bradford is still very Dynasty relevant.

• young
• possible that this is finally the year he emerges
• valuable in a SuperFlex even as merely average

Extending this same thinking to Bridgewater, Johnny, Bortles, and possibly Carr: their individual flaws do not matter. What matters is their draft position (1st round versus 3rd or later) and team situation. To wit, Geno Smith, who has many flaws and got drafted into arguably the worst QB slot in pro football, was drafted at the 2.02 in a SuperFlex dynasty, because we knew he was gonna get his chance.

If drafted into the NFL to be a starter, Bridge, Carr, Bort and Johnny will all be gone by the end of the 2nd round in Dynasty rookie drafts. Whichever one goes to Houston could be a monster in Year Two, and turn Hopkins into a superstar.

Therefore I would take that guy at the 1.05 to 1.07, perhaps compared to Luck, a no-miss prospect that went at 1.03.

Now we're talking FF Draft strategy instead of pointless conjecture about QB flaws.

Let the NFL GMs worry about flaws - I want an edge on the chumps in my pool.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, I think we are past the days where QB's see the kind of extended leash that Bradford enjoys. There's a good chance that Locker, Gabbart and Ponder are all going to lose their starting rolls next year. Weeden has already been replaced and he's a year later. I understand that there are different circumstances with each case but I think that gone are the days where a team will give a first round QB 5 years to develop. Bradford is more and more looking like the exception to the rule.

With the new rookie contract, 3 years is likely the new limit, especially if there is a change in coaching staff or management. I'm not sure I would target a QB going to a team that doesn't look to be improving. Like a Manuel or Geno, by the time their teams are relevant, they might be out of a job.

 

[Vector]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

I think we all knew that.

Yes, but did you know that Old McDonald was a bad speller?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

More Cosell on Manziel:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/12/greg-cosell-sees-a-wide-variation-in-johnny-manziels-quality-of-play/

Greg Cosell sees “a wide variation” in Johnny Manziel’s quality of playPosted by Mike Wilkening on February 12, 2014, 4:56 PM EST

Noted evaluator Greg Cosell of NFL Films has put on the tape of Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel.

And as Cosell told 104.5 FM “The Zone” in Nashville on Wednesday, he has seen good and bad things.

“As you evaluate and transition him . . . there’s a wide variation in his play, so there’s a consistency issue,” said Cosell, the executive producer of “NFL Matchup” and a senior producer at NFL Films. “You have to decide how you want to deal with that issue. There’s a lot to like, but there’s also some that’s concerning, so how do you deal with that?”

Speaking on the station’s “The Midday 180″ program, Cosell said that Manziel’s final two regular-season starts of 2013 — losses to LSU and Missouri — were notable in how poorly the 2012 Heisman Trophy winner played.

“If those were the first two games you put on and watched, you’d say he’s almost undraftable,” Cosell said. “He was so bad in those two games that you’d struggle to figure out, ‘Can I even draft this guy?’”

In those defeats, Manziel completed a combined 40-of-76 passes for 419 yards with two TDs and two interceptions. He was also held to 75 yards rushing on 23 attempts.

Cosell noted that any team considering Manziel had to have an idea of what he did well and what he lacked.

“I would say overall, he’s a small quarterback with outstanding movement and improvisation,” Cosell said of Manziel, who was listed at 6-foot-1 and 210 pounds in college. “At times, he showed very strong flashes of structured pocket play that clearly project to the NFL, so I think it’ll come down to how you balance these issues.



“The other thing I say about Manziel is he’s much more of a see-it-throw-it quarterback than an anticipation thrower. He’s not really a timing/anticipation thrower on film. So you have to figure out the pros and the cons and where you stand on those pros and cons.”

Cosell said that based on his study, Central Florida quarterback Blake Bortles was the passer he liked most at this time.

However, Cosell also noted that none of the draft-eligible quarterbacks were of the caliber of a recent standout.

“When you talk about quarterbacks being high picks, there’s no Andrew Luck in this draft,” Cosell said of the No. 1 overall pick of the 2012 draft by Indianapolis. “There’s no one who would even be in the same conversation.”

 

[Tool]

well Luck was supposedly the highest rated prospect since Peyton so not sure that's earth shattering analysis there.

 

[ShaHBucks]

More Cosell on Manziel:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/12/greg-cosell-sees-a-wide-variation-in-johnny-manziels-quality-of-play/

However, Cosell also noted that none of the draft-eligible quarterbacks were of the caliber of a recent standout.

When you talk about quarterbacks being high picks, theres no Andrew Luck in this draft, Cosell said of the No. 1 overall pick of the 2012 draft by Indianapolis. Theres no one who would even be in the same conversation.

Luck, Bridgewater career per game passer metrics:

28.0 pass attempts, 65.9%, 248.2 yards, 2.2 TD/0.6 INT = Luck (38 games)

29.2 pass attempts, 68.3%, 251.7 yards, 1.8 TD/0.6 INT = Bridgewater (39 games)

300+ yard passing games (career):

1 every 3.0 games = Bridgewater

1 every 4.2 games = Luck

3 or more passing TDs (career):

1 every 2.5 games = Luck

1 every 3.9 games = Bridgewater

He obviously isn't 6'4", 230+ but he grades as an elite passer if Luck is the gold standard. Dude just completed 70% of his attempts, threw for 300+ yards a game, and 34TD/4INTs. What more can you say about his arm? He capped his career off by toying with a top ranked FLA defense. The only thing you can do now is wait on his official measurements for his height, weight and hand size.

 

[Donnybrook]

More Cosell on Manziel:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/12/greg-cosell-sees-a-wide-variation-in-johnny-manziels-quality-of-play/

Cosell said that based on his study, Central Florida quarterback Blake Bortles was the passer he liked most at this time.

At least Cossell is consistent. The attributes that Cossell likes to emphasize in all his evaluations are size and arm strength. Last year he was really high on Mike Glennon.

 

[stbugs]

I think taking a quarterback in the first round is far from a sure thing.

The two Super Bowl teams and even all four teams in the NFC and AFC championship games did not use a first round pick on their quarterbacks.

Here is a list of all of the first round quarterbacks in the NFL.

The names are listed in decending order from their respective draft classes and I broke out the projected starters from guys who are not projected to start.

These are the quarterbacks drafted in the first round who are still playing. Many others are not so take a look at all of these first round quarterbacks still in the league going all the way back to the 1998 draft when Peyton Manning came into the league.

I think Schlereth is absolutely right about this year's rookie quarterback class.

=================

E.J. Manuel

Ryan Tannehill

Andrew Luck

Robert Griffin III

Cam Newton

Jake Locker

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

Jay Cutler

Alex Smith

Aaron Rodgers

Philip Rivers

Ben Roethlisberger

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

Peyton Manning

==========

Brandon Weeden

Christian Ponder

Blaine Gabbert

Josh Freeman

Jason Campbell

Michael Vick

Regardless of the class coming in, I think your post about not needing a first round pick QB makes no sense. Flacco won last year's SB as a first rounder. Eli and Peyton have three SB wins recently as #1 overall picks. Roethlisberger has a couple SB wins as a first rounder. There are tons of 1st round QBs that have won or played in SBs, which doesn't even include guys like Steve Young who signed with the USFL and Staubach who went into the military, both of whom would have easily been 1st rounders.

Also, you listed 18 starters that were 1st round picks. That means that 18 starting QBs were 1st rounders and 14 were from the other 6 rounds. Also, 4 of the others you listed were starters week 1, i.e. on opening day, 22 of 32 were 1st round picks. Again, I don't know if Bridgewater/Manziel measure up and will be 1st round picks. They likely will, but there have been plenty of guys like Rodgers and Geno Smith that were discussed often as top 3 picks that dropped a lot.

Lastly, don't cherry pick the 4 playoff teams in the championship games. First of all, yes, the Broncos didn't use a first round pick on Peyton, but he was the #1 overall pick. Brady is the exception to the rule. Wilson has played extremely well, but didn't even have a TD pass until his team had already won the game, his surrounding cast (especially with Harvin) was the best in the playoffs. Then, you have the Broncos, Colts, Panthers, Chargers, Chiefs and Packers all had 1st round QBs. Dalton was selected with the 3rd pick in the second round, Kaepernick was selected with the 4th pick in the second round and Brees was selected with the 1st pick in the 2nd round. So, while not all 1st rounders, 9 of the 12 playoff QBs were taken in the first 36 picks. The rest are Foles, Wilson and Brady. Also, look at the 5 teams that were in last year's playoffs but didn't make it this year, 3 of them had 1st round QBs.

Having a 1st round QB or even an early 2nd round QB (usually guys with 1st round grades that fall due to height or questionable schools - Brees, Kaep and Dalton), is a much better chance than trying to draft Wilson and craft a stellar D or finding the once in a lifetime 6th round QB named Brady.

 

[nirad3]

Boyd?

Boyd?

I been listening to many scouts at the Senior Bowl. Almost all are down on Boyd. Some are saying he shouldn't get drafted and others are calling him a 6th round pick.

Boyd looked turrrible at the Senior Bowl. In SB practices, he looked like a Pop Warner QB when he had to snap from center. I have watched some Clemson football over the past couple of seasons and from what I can remember he ran almost exclusively out of the shotgun AND threw a boatload of screen passes. He struggles with tougher throws. This guy's stats were 100% because of Hopkins and Watkins.

Pass.

 

[ghostguy123]

Hmm, how many times has a QB and WR who had ripped it up in college BOTH done well in the NFL? Moreso talking the past 15 years or so. Not sure someting 30 years ago would be relevant.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Regardless of the class coming in, I think your post about not needing a first round pick QB makes no sense. Flacco won last year's SB as a first rounder. Eli and Peyton have three SB wins recently as #1 overall picks. Roethlisberger has a couple SB wins as a first rounder. There are tons of 1st round QBs that have won or played in SBs, which doesn't even include guys like Steve Young who signed with the USFL and Staubach who went into the military, both of whom would have easily been 1st rounders.


Also, you listed 18 starters that were 1st round picks. That means that 18 starting QBs were 1st rounders and 14 were from the other 6 rounds. Also, 4 of the others you listed were starters week 1, i.e. on opening day, 22 of 32 were 1st round picks. Again, I don't know if Bridgewater/Manziel measure up and will be 1st round picks. They likely will, but there have been plenty of guys like Rodgers and Geno Smith that were discussed often as top 3 picks that dropped a lot.

Lastly, don't cherry pick the 4 playoff teams in the championship games. First of all, yes, the Broncos didn't use a first round pick on Peyton, but he was the #1 overall pick. Brady is the exception to the rule. Wilson has played extremely well, but didn't even have a TD pass until his team had already won the game, his surrounding cast (especially with Harvin) was the best in the playoffs. Then, you have the Broncos, Colts, Panthers, Chargers, Chiefs and Packers all had 1st round QBs. Dalton was selected with the 3rd pick in the second round, Kaepernick was selected with the 4th pick in the second round and Brees was selected with the 1st pick in the 2nd round. So, while not all 1st rounders, 9 of the 12 playoff QBs were taken in the first 36 picks. The rest are Foles, Wilson and Brady. Also, look at the 5 teams that were in last year's playoffs but didn't make it this year, 3 of them had 1st round QBs.

Having a 1st round QB or even an early 2nd round QB (usually guys with 1st round grades that fall due to height or questionable schools - Brees, Kaep and Dalton), is a much better chance than trying to draft Wilson and craft a stellar D or finding the once in a lifetime 6th round QB named Brady.

To cover each point.

- Did say you don't need a first round drafted QB to win a Super Bowl. You don't.

- Yes, the best place to find a starting caliber QB is in the first round. Statiscally that is undisputable.

- I didn't cherry pick last year's final four teams, they picked themselves.

My point was questioning whether or not any of the top ranked QBs from this draft class are worth taking at the top of the draft and their are a lot of legitmate questions. You can assume the need of having a franchise QB will artificially drive one or more of the QBs to get taken at the top of the draft and that might be the case but Mark Schlerif doesn't think any of the QBs are worth being drafted at the top of this draft and Greg Cossel only thinks Teddy Bridgewater is worthy of being drafted at the top of this draft.

My take on finding a quality starting NFL QB is that if you need one then statistically the best place to find one is at the top of the draft but their has to be QBs who have the talent at the top of the draft and I also do believe they need to be able to physically hold-up because the two main reasons why prospects at any position fail are:

1. Injuries

2. Character

Any player can get injured but if you put a 6'3 195 lb QB out on the field then his wieght is a concern since it could increase the risk that he'll get injured. Same with a 5'11 guy who is reckless with his body in how he plays the QB position before factoring in any character concerns or other aspects of his game that Cossel mentioned.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Was looking for a Greg Cosell or rookie QB thread but couldn't find one that fit but Greg Cosell did a video at an Eagles site going over all of the QBs of this draft.

Really good breakdown of every QB not just the top three/four guys.

Must see for anyone interested in the QBs of this draft class.

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/multimedia/videos/Film-Room-Cosell-Breaks-Down-The-Drafts-QBs/95198c0f-16d9-4614-833c-4767a09e05c1

Film Room: Cosell Breaks Down The Draft's QB's

In the first segment of our 'Film Room' series previewing the top prospects at the quarterback position in the NFL Draft, Bo Wulf is joined by NFL Films Senior Producer Greg Cosell to help dive into the top signal callers of the class ....