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Explaining Away Young's Wonderlic (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
I voted that way Joe...simply put, the NFL is many things but they are a master of PR. It would be so simple for the league to put out an official statement explaining the situation, and yet they haven't [unless I've missed it]. There are too many inconsistencies that could EASILY be answered if it was that simple.

Why have him retake the test instead of simply rescoring the original?

If he didn't get a "6" on the original, what was his score?

In what manner was the test incorrectly scored?

Are all the Wonderlic tests scored by hand and, if so, by the same person?

If they are scored by hand, why aren't they scored by multiple people to ensure accuracy [or are they?]

 

TheLaw

Footballguy
Has any other current prospective rookie's wonderlic score been made public yet? I thought these things were A) not ever officially released, and B) are not "official" until the reports are given to the teams at combine's end. What did Cutler and Lienart get?

 

lod2005

Footballguy
Cutler and Lienart's were graded wrong. Oh, wait 1 and only 1 test was graded wrong. The guy with the lowest score. Let's add a 1 in front of it and say he took it again. Anything above 16 would be preposterous and no one would beleive us.

Newsflash: No one beleives you now unless you show the 1st test and the score of it. Until that is done, Vince Young scored a 6 on the test. If he didn't, they would have produced it.

6 is the number.

 
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Either way its not good.

I think it it was effectively summed up by Rome this morning. His 6 is a huge problem in two ways.

1) Either he didn't know he was going to have to take the Wonderlic test and was not prepared for it at all which is a huge problem because he and his management are incompetent.

2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six. Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses. An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.

Either way he has taken a huge hit and could have cost himself a lot of $$.

 
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WhoDat

Footballguy
Why have him retake the test instead of simply rescoring the original?
Occam's Razor...Had that happened this situation would not be anywhere near as complicated as it currently is. That was/is the easiest way to have resolved this entire matter yet that was not the course of action. Thus, I voted that something is not entirely right with the situation. This is compounded by the fact that the NFL itself as been eerily silent on the matter but it is very apparent efforts are being put forth to control collateral damage.

 

The Fletch

Footballguy
As for the grading, isn't the test multiple choice? Wouldn't they hand out ScanTrons for the test if this is the case? And if that's the case, why would they score them by hand? I know of no college professor who scores ScanTrons by hand...that defeats the purpose of using the ScanTron in the first place, doesn't it?

Also, if there are 50 questions and each question has five choices, doesn't that make the "blind" guess rate 10 out of 50? In other words, could Vince have done better by not even looking at the questions?

:bag:

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Why have him retake the test instead of simply rescoring the original?
Occam's Razor...Had that happened this situation would not be anywhere near as complicated as it currently is. That was/is the easiest way to have resolved this entire matter yet that was not the course of action. Thus, I voted that something is not entirely right with the situation. This is compounded by the fact that the NFL itself as been eerily silent on the matter but it is very apparent efforts are being put forth to control collateral damage.
Well said. I'm most definitely NOT a tinfoil hat/conspiracy guy...but this has all the makings of damage control.
 

BigTex

Don't mess with Texas
I was surprised to so many vote here http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...ic=228046&st=50 that they thought Young really did score a 6 and the "incorrect score" thing and retest was damage control.

For those that voted that way, can you expound on that?

Who is driving the coverup? And how?

Thanks.

J
Joe, this is just my opinion. I believe it could have been Texas. Texas because, how can you explain your high profile QB's score? How does that make Texas look to upcoming recruits. It could cause the NCAA to look closer at Texas, etc.....If any school can make things happen "behind the scene" it would be Texas boosters. VY = millions of dollars to Texas, he's an investment as well as advertisement for the university.
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six. Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses. An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.
Why would a 16 be worse than the original 6? 16 doesn't make him a rocket scientist, but it is far from a score that would make one question his literacy.
 

Kleck.

Footballguy
Until the NFL answers some of the questions posted above, DAMAGE CONTROL gets my vote. Plastic, duct tape, :tinfoilhat: and all! :D

 
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Jason Wood

Zoo York
2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six.  Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses.  An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.
Why would a 16 be worse than the original 6? 16 doesn't make him a rocket scientist, but it is far from a score that would make one question his literacy.
Agreed...a 16 wouldn't be worse than a 6, far from it. In fact, had VY gotten a 16 the first time out, with no controversy, I would venture to say it would've had absolutely no negative impact on his draft status. There have been enough successes at the position in that range for GMs to look past it provided VY was reasonably well spoken in interviews and they saw enough solid decision-making on game tape.
 

BoulderBob

Footballguy
Having listened to Young for the past three seasons, it doesn't take two poor Wonderlic scores to understand he probably isn't too bright. Nevertheless, as long as he has his legs, he will be a force.

 

Demons

Footballguy
I'm on the disability boat, figuring that it was improperly administered the first time, taking into account some mysterious learning disability.

The question is, why can't someone, such as Young or the NFL, come clean with what the problem is/was?

Bottom-line, the talk of his stock taking a hit is likely accurate, given the widespread nature of such talk and the already present concerns regarding his readiness for the NFL. I'm pretty certain that the teams are aware of his problems, test-taking or otherwise, even though the public may not become aware of it for awhile. Thus, I tend to buy into talk that his stock has taken a hit, based on my observation of the effect, if not the cause.

Often, problems that affect a players ranking do not come to light until after the draft. I'm willing to accept that I don't know everything that is on the table regarding Vince Young. The guys that have him under the microscope likely know much more than I do.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Why have him retake the test instead of simply rescoring the original?
Occam's Razor...Had that happened this situation would not be anywhere near as complicated as it currently is. That was/is the easiest way to have resolved this entire matter yet that was not the course of action. Thus, I voted that something is not entirely right with the situation. This is compounded by the fact that the NFL itself as been eerily silent on the matter but it is very apparent efforts are being put forth to control collateral damage.
Well said. I'm most definitely NOT a tinfoil hat/conspiracy guy...but this has all the makings of damage control.
Hi Woodrow,Who do you think is driving the damage control here? The league? Houston?

If this were a Steinberg guy or a Rosenhaus guy or even a Sexton guy, I could see it. All those guys are big hitters and have some muscle flex. But his agents are totally powerless in the muscle the league department.

J

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I'm on the disability boat, figuring that it was improperly administered the first time, taking into account some mysterious learning disability.

The question is, why can't someone, such as Young or the NFL, come clean with what the problem is/was?

Bottom-line, the talk of his stock taking a hit is likely accurate, given the widespread nature of such talk and the already present concerns regarding his readiness for the NFL.  I'm pretty certain that the teams are aware of his problems, test-taking or otherwise, even though the public may not become aware of it for awhile.  Thus, I tend to buy into talk that his stock has taken a hit, based on my observation of the effect, if not the cause.

Often, problems that affect a players ranking do not come to light until after the draft.  I'm willing to accept that I don't know everything that is on the table regarding Vince Young.  The guys that have him under the microscope likely know much more than I do.
Hi Demons,I think the reason they wouldn't come clean if it were a learning disability is because rightly or wrongly, the stigma and perception attached with that is even worse.

J

 
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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Either way its not good.

I think it it was effectively summed up by Rome this morning. His 6 is a huge problem in two ways.

1) Either he didn't know he was going to have to take the Wonderlic test and was not prepared for it at all which is a huge problem because he and his management are incompetent.

2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six. Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses. An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.

Either way he has taken a huge hit and could have cost himself a lot of $$.
Hi Fro,I would strongly disagree with Rome. I put zero negative value on him for trusting the family attorney. I think that was a very poor (and costly) decision but that has zero translation into his on the field performance. A terrible Wonderlic score does.

Secondly, a 16 on try #2 isn't worse than a 6. It's bad but not worse.

J

 

lod2005

Footballguy
Having listened to Young for the past three seasons, it doesn't take two poor Wonderlic scores to understand he probably isn't too bright. Nevertheless, as long as he has his legs, he will be a force.
And how long will that be? If he happens to play against San Diego, Shawn Merriman will make quick work of Vince Young's running ability.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Why have him retake the test instead of simply rescoring the original?
Occam's Razor...Had that happened this situation would not be anywhere near as complicated as it currently is. That was/is the easiest way to have resolved this entire matter yet that was not the course of action. Thus, I voted that something is not entirely right with the situation. This is compounded by the fact that the NFL itself as been eerily silent on the matter but it is very apparent efforts are being put forth to control collateral damage.
Well said. I'm most definitely NOT a tinfoil hat/conspiracy guy...but this has all the makings of damage control.
Hi Woodrow,Who do you think is driving the damage control here? The league? Houston?

If this were a Steinberg guy or a Rosenhaus guy or even a Sexton guy, I could see it. All those guys are big hitters and have some muscle flex. But his agents are totally powerless in the muscle the league department.

J
Don't know...as I said, there's too many inconsistencies that could so easily be put to bed if the NFL was inclined for me to dismiss the "6" completely. But ultimately who is driving this is beyond me. My gut says it's a collaborative reaction from all parties involved.
 

BigJim®

Footballguy
I don't think anyone can speak as to why this happened with the level of facts we've been given. The only thing that should be crystal clear to people is the facts we have been given make zero sense, hence the conspiracy assumption.

*If I had to guess* what's going on: The test was sprung on Young because his stupid 'friend of the family' agent didn't prepare him (which has been reported). Recognizing how F'd he'd left Vince, the stupid agent claimed in advance that Young was taking the test under protest. He in fact took the test, completely oblivious to the chance he might get a 6 (which has been reported). After learning of the laughable score, Young's agent went into full scale panic and escalated his complaint, potentially even tossing out the term "ADA" due to the gravity of his client losing millions of dollars if the 6 was made public. The NFL, partially fearing an actual ADA complaint might be legit when evidenced by a 6 score, and selfishly not wanting to ruin the marketability/draft stock of it's next Mike Vick over a Wonderlic test, bent over backward to help VY prepare for and retake the test from scratch. In the NFL's mind, maybe "no harm no foul"... it's just a test. The NFL couldn't make the VY accommodation public knowledge because everyone who scored pathetically would demand the same accommodation, and how convenient that the ADA forbids them from publicizing ADA accommodations. Unfortunately, the whole plan was blown out of the water by PFT breaking the 6 score, so the NFL created the "scoring error" rumor, hoping it would be enough to brush this thing under the rug. Unfortunately, people aren't as dumb as the NFL thought and are a good deal more curious than the NFL assumed.

That's just my take.

 
Either way its not good.

I think it it was effectively summed up by Rome this morning.  His 6 is a huge problem in two ways.

1) Either he didn't know he was going to have to take the Wonderlic test and was not prepared for it at all which is a huge problem because  he and his management are incompetent.

2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six.  Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses.   An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.

Either way he has taken a huge hit and could have cost himself a lot of $$.
Hi Fro,I would strongly disagree with Rome. I put zero negative value on him for trusting the family attorney. I think that was a very poor (and costly) decision but that has zero translation into his on the field performance. A terrible Wonderlic score does.

Secondly, a 16 on try #2 isn't worse than a 6. It's bad but not worse.

J
What your not understanding is that if he had proper representation they would have prepared him to take the wonderlic which would mean that he would have spent time taking old practice wonderlics and reviewing different strategies to score better on it. They say its a test to test your ability to learn but you can also learn how to take any kind of test. Example SAT classes give you strategies to do your better. Bottom line is I think he should have been better prepared to take it. It almost seems like he forgot it was part of the whole process.

 
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Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Cutler and Lienart's were graded wrong. Oh, wait 1 and only 1 test was graded wrong. The guy with the lowest score. Let's add a 1 in front of it and say he took it again. Anything above 16 would be preposterous and no one would beleive us.

Newsflash: No one beleives you now unless you show the 1st test and the score of it. Until that is done, Vince Young scored a 6 on the test. If he didn't, they would have produced it.

6 is the number.
They don't owe you or anybody here a damn thing. Especially the results of what was supposed to be a confidential test.
 

WhoDat

Footballguy
Who do you think is driving the damage control here? The league? Houston?
I too am not fixated by the Grassy Knoll, NBA officiating as it relates to their top players/teams or Ewing going to the Knicks. As was put, I don't sport the tin foil cap.In this instance something happened in the adminstration and or scoring of that test. That something must be deemed or considered potentially problematic for some or all of the parites involved. Otherwise you take the original; take the master grading scale and score the initial test a second time. Over and done with. However, that is not what happened. At this point I think the league is starting to get involved to minimize damage and sway public perception via indirect channels. There was an event or series of events that took place regarding Young's test that would be a substantial embarrassment to the league if the transgression were made public. There could also be legal implications. Hypothetically, the testing platform should be level for everyone. Those with learning disabilities are given exception but everyone else takes the same test under the same cirumstances. Allowing a capable person to operate outside of that boundary is a significant error and liability. Another capable person that was not allowed the same set of unique circumstances could consider this an unequality in the hiring practice. Then, the league has problems. In no way am I stating that as a fact of the matter. It is just an example as to why this matter is not as simple as it might seem. For example, look at Casserly and Brown's comments. Brown has no affiliation with the NFL. None. He happens to coach football but that is where the likeness stops. Casserly is a general manager for a franchise in the NFL but in no way does he carry enough weight to present himself as mouthpiece for the league. Somehow, each issue formal statements regarding the results and speak of having factual information. Those guys do not climb out on that limb unless they know someone is going to help break that fall should push come to shove. I said it earlier and will say it again. The league office's silence is curious and damning at this point. Why the lack of a formal statement on the matter?
 
Either way its not good.

I think it it was effectively summed up by Rome this morning.  His 6 is a huge problem in two ways.

1) Either he didn't know he was going to have to take the Wonderlic test and was not prepared for it at all which is a huge problem because  he and his management are incompetent.

2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six.  Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses.  An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.

Either way he has taken a huge hit and could have cost himself a lot of $$.
Hi Fro,I would strongly disagree with Rome. I put zero negative value on him for trusting the family attorney. I think that was a very poor (and costly) decision but that has zero translation into his on the field performance. A terrible Wonderlic score does.

Secondly, a 16 on try #2 isn't worse than a 6. It's bad but not worse.

J
Depend if it was the exact same questions?
 

lod2005

Footballguy
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Hi Jim,

That's a workable story. I have no idea what kind of skills the agent / attorney has. ADA / Cultural Bias would both carry some weight if he knew how to work it properly.

It's interesting to me how long the league will stonewall on this. Knowing how they operate, I'd be surprised to see them say anything now. They still are operating out of the old school media model discounting the power of the boards and the blogs to affect more than a marginal part of their customer base.

We have to understand, the hardcore junkies here on this thread represent just a tiny slice of their audience. We're way more into this than most NFL fans. So maybe the "stonewall and wait for it to be buried under the next news cycle" strategy will work.

The fundamental question has still not been answered: What did he score on the first test that was scored incorrectly? In other words, why not score the first test correctly?

I'm guessing they never come clean on this and let it die.

J

 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
What your not understanding is that if he had proper representation they would have prepared him to take the wonderlic which would mean that he would have spent time taking old practice wonderlics and reviewing different strategies to score better on it. They say its a test to test your ability to learn but you can also learn how to take any kind of test. Example SAT classes give you strategies to do your better.

Bottom line is I think he should have been better prepared to take it. It almost seems like he forgot it was part of the whole process.
No, that's exactly what I understand. The exact same guy with a little training could go in and significantly improve his score. Not because he's any smarter. He'd score better because he hired good agents. So the fact that he didn't hire good agents is not something I'll hold against him like Rome said he did.J

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
:goodposting: Most are "leaked" because each team gets an official report of all the results this week; but not all are leaked and even fewer are ever officially corroborated.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
You're right, Capella.That brings up an interesting point - why not release the score? They release all the other info like 40 times and bench press reps. Those are tests. Why keep this test so secret?

J

 

BigJim®

Footballguy
It's interesting to me how long the league will stonewall on this. Knowing how they operate, I'd be surprised to see them say anything now.
That's the beauty of it if ADA is involved. It's not "stonewalling"... it's "adhering to the requirements of the Americans with Disability Act."
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
:goodposting: Most are "leaked" because each team gets an official report of all the results this week; but not all are leaked and even fewer are ever officially corroborated.
Anything that teams know eventually gets leaked. Ask Denver/Ricky.
 

lod2005

Footballguy
Released, leaked. Whatever. Fact is they get out. If I was Vince Young and scored a 6 I sure as heck would grab my test and prove I DIDN'T score a 6.

 

TheLaw

Footballguy
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
Yep. The Wonderlic score is part of the "Combine Report" that each team gets on the player. Their 40 times etc are also all on this report. All the times you see on NFL Network right now are "unofficial" the times become official when reported to the teams or whatever. These results are confidential, particularly the wonderlic. Normally a team leaks such information in some way once they get the official report. VY is the victim of leaks prior to the score even becoming his official score.
 

Beaumont

Footballguy
I don't think anyone can speak as to why this happened with the level of facts we've been given. The only thing that should be crystal clear to people is the facts we have been given make zero sense, hence the conspiracy assumption.

*If I had to guess* what's going on: The test was sprung on Young because his stupid 'friend of the family' agent didn't prepare him (which has been reported). Recognizing how F'd he'd left Vince, the stupid agent claimed in advance that Young was taking the test under protest. He in fact took the test, completely oblivious to the chance he might get a 6 (which has been reported). After learning of the laughable score, Young's agent went into full scale panic and escalated his complaint, potentially even tossing out the term "ADA" due to the gravity of his client losing millions of dollars if the 6 was made public. The NFL, partially fearing an actual ADA complaint might be legit when evidenced by a 6 score, and selfishly not wanting to ruin the marketability/draft stock of it's next Mike Vick over a Wonderlic test, bent over backward to help VY prepare for and retake the test from scratch. In the NFL's mind, maybe "no harm no foul"... it's just a test. The NFL couldn't make the VY accommodation public knowledge because everyone who scored pathetically would demand the same accommodation, and how convenient that the ADA forbids them from publicizing ADA accommodations. Unfortunately, the whole plan was blown out of the water by PFT breaking the 6 score, so the NFL created the "scoring error" rumor, hoping it would be enough to brush this thing under the rug. Unfortunately, people aren't as dumb as the NFL thought and are a good deal more curious than the NFL assumed.

That's just my take.
A very good thought ...
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
It's interesting to me how long the league will stonewall on this. Knowing how they operate, I'd be surprised to see them say anything now.
That's the beauty of it if ADA is involved. It's not "stonewalling"... it's "adhering to the requirements of the Americans with Disability Act."
So, how did we find out that Gore scored a 6 and has a learning disabillity?Furthermore, did Gore get any accomindations?

 

Couch Potato

Footballguy
Either way its not good.

I think it it was effectively summed up by Rome this morning. His 6 is a huge problem in two ways.

1) Either he didn't know he was going to have to take the Wonderlic test and was not prepared for it at all which is a huge problem because he and his management are incompetent.

2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six. Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses. An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.

Either way he has taken a huge hit and could have cost himself a lot of $$.
A third possibility occurred to me, and that is that Young knew he was going to take the test but viewed it as a big joke and either intentionally answered questions incorrectly or didn't bother to complete more than a portion of the test. This would explain how he could score less than 10, which would be the average if he had just guessed on all questions.The last thing I'd now believe is that the 6 was scored incorrectly. If there was in fact a scoring error, the solution is simply to rescore the original test, not to have Young (and only Young) retake it and try to bury the original test. If it wasn't a 6, what was it???

The NFL takes a huge credibility hit on this. Now, no Wonderlick score, past or future, can be trusted if we can't trust the 6 and they can't show why it wasn't accurate. The loss of credibility then carries over to other areas. The NFL has made a huge mistake following this path.

 

Right Here !

Footballguy
Either way its not good.

I think it it was effectively summed up by Rome this morning.  His 6 is a huge problem in two ways.

1) Either he didn't know he was going to have to take the Wonderlic test and was not prepared for it at all which is a huge problem because  he and his management are incompetent.

2) He was aware of it and but was unable to score better than a six.  Which is a huge problem for an NFL QB as he is expected to be able to handle the complex NFL offenses.   An even bigger red flag is that if he re-took the test and only scored a 16 which can be considered even worse that his original 6 on the second try.

Either way he has taken a huge hit and could have cost himself a lot of $$.
Hi Fro,I would strongly disagree with Rome. I put zero negative value on him for trusting the family attorney. I think that was a very poor (and costly) decision but that has zero translation into his on the field performance. A terrible Wonderlic score does.

Secondly, a 16 on try #2 isn't worse than a 6. It's bad but not worse.

J
What your not understanding is that if he had proper representation they would have prepared him to take the wonderlic which would mean that he would have spent time taking old practice wonderlics and reviewing different strategies to score better on it. They say its a test to test your ability to learn but you can also learn how to take any kind of test. Example SAT classes give you strategies to do your better. Bottom line is I think he should have been better prepared to take it. It almost seems like he forgot it was part of the whole process.
There was an intellgent poster I think his handle was Two Deep, who hit the nail on the head. If you have attended 3-4 years of college do you really need to take practice exams of the Wonderlic? It seems to me as well as that Two Deep guy that a college student should be smart enough too score better than a six.
 
What your not understanding is that if he had proper representation they would have prepared him to take the wonderlic which would mean that he would have spent time taking old practice wonderlics and reviewing different strategies to score better on it.    They say its a test to test your ability to learn but you can also learn how to take any kind of test.  Example SAT classes give you strategies to do your better. 

Bottom line is I think he should have been better prepared to take it.  It almost seems like he forgot it was part of the whole process.
No, that's exactly what I understand. The exact same guy with a little training could go in and significantly improve his score. Not because he's any smarter. He'd score better because he hired good agents. So the fact that he didn't hire good agents is not something I'll hold against him like Rome said he did.J
You say one thing and think another. You will inherently hold the 6 against him. How could you not?
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
:goodposting: Most are "leaked" because each team gets an official report of all the results this week; but not all are leaked and even fewer are ever officially corroborated.
Anything that teams know eventually gets leaked. Ask Denver/Ricky.
Look at me replying to myself...but this got me thinking. Do we think that the NFL will eventually give the teams a better answer? As potential employers teams should have the right to know what accomidations VY needed. As we know, anything that a team gets ahold of will eventually be leaked. So maybe the NFL will never address it to the public, but the teams could still find out. It I am a top 3 team I sure want to know the deal.
 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
What your not understanding is that if he had proper representation they would have prepared him to take the wonderlic which would mean that he would have spent time taking old practice wonderlics and reviewing different strategies to score better on it.    They say its a test to test your ability to learn but you can also learn how to take any kind of test.   Example SAT classes give you strategies to do your better.  

Bottom line is I think he should have been better prepared to take it.  It almost seems like he forgot it was part of the whole process.
No, that's exactly what I understand. The exact same guy with a little training could go in and significantly improve his score. Not because he's any smarter. He'd score better because he hired good agents. So the fact that he didn't hire good agents is not something I'll hold against him like Rome said he did.J
You say one thing and think another. You will inherently hold the 6 against him. How could you not?
Hi Fro,Think what and say what?

J

 

cstu

Footballguy
It's interesting to me how long the league will stonewall on this. Knowing how they operate, I'd be surprised to see them say anything now.
That's the beauty of it if ADA is involved. It's not "stonewalling"... it's "adhering to the requirements of the Americans with Disability Act."
So, how did we find out that Gore scored a 6 and has a learning disabillity?Furthermore, did Gore get any accomindations?
Here's his story...

He grew up in a one-bedroom apartment with seven others in the "not so good" part of town. He was raised by a single mother who has been sick most of her adult life and she started undergoing kidney dialysis (waiting for a kidney transplant) about the same time he enrolled at Coral Gables High School. He has a learning disability that affects his comprehension of written material and he took classes for children with special needs since being diagnosed with the disability in third grade. Once in high school he studied with a tutor several hours a day, spent evenings getting help from mom, and went to summer school every year. He graduated with a B average earned a qualifying score on his college entrance exam (non timed test per NCAA). His high school career is well documented...he set the all-time Dade country single season rushing record with 2,953 yards and 34 TD's as a senior along with 1,559 yards and 28 TD's as a junior. While at Miami he looked all world his true freshmen year rushing for 562 yards on just 62 carries (9.1 YPC) in 2001. He then suffered a major knee injury and sat out 2002, came back in 2003 and after 5 games (468 yards, 5.3 YPC, 4 TD's) suffer a second major ACL injury to the other knee. He came back in 2004 obviously slower and not in football shape at first but finished the season with 945 yards, 4.8 YPC and 8 TD's. He was named 2nd team All-ACC and won the 2004 Brian Piccolo Award for the Atlantic Coast Conference - much deserved. He then entered the NFL draft early as a junior so to help his mother and family (and not risk another injury). Frank Gore was drafted in the 3rd round by the San Francisco 49ers and with his multi-million dollar contract promptly moved his mother and younger siblings into a new four-bedroom house on a lake in south Florida. He finished his rookie year with 127 carries, 608 yards, 4.8 YPC, 72 long, 3 TD's, 15 receptions, 131 yards. His 4.8 YPC average was 6th highest in the NFL for RB's with a minimum of 100 carries.
I don't think he got any accomodations on the Wonderlic and had to take it like everyone else.
 
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Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Released, leaked. Whatever. Fact is they get out. If I was Vince Young and scored a 6 I sure as heck would grab my test and prove I DIDN'T score a 6.
Well, you're not Vince Young and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.
 

BigJim®

Footballguy
It's interesting to me how long the league will stonewall on this. Knowing how they operate, I'd be surprised to see them say anything now.
That's the beauty of it if ADA is involved. It's not "stonewalling"... it's "adhering to the requirements of the Americans with Disability Act."
So, how did we find out that Gore scored a 6 and has a learning disabillity?Furthermore, did Gore get any accomindations?
Again, we don't know the facts but neither you or I know how much pressure 'Team Vince Young' put on the NFL. When an attorney/agent wants something for his client, he'll throw a lot of things at the wall hoping one will stick. If he was smart enough to throw out a possible ADA argument, the NFL maybe decided retaking the test was better than seeing a legal threat be followed through on with (potentially) tens of millions in damages at stake. Heck, for all we know VY got ADA accommodations at UT, which would make his case even stronger.
 

BigJim®

Footballguy
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
:goodposting: Most are "leaked" because each team gets an official report of all the results this week; but not all are leaked and even fewer are ever officially corroborated.
Anything that teams know eventually gets leaked. Ask Denver/Ricky.
Look at me replying to myself...but this got me thinking. Do we think that the NFL will eventually give the teams a better answer? As potential employers teams should have the right to know what accomidations VY needed. As we know, anything that a team gets ahold of will eventually be leaked. So maybe the NFL will never address it to the public, but the teams could still find out. It I am a top 3 team I sure want to know the deal.
Well, it's really starting to perturb me that seemingly the "who's who" list in Texas seems to be getting fed info while the rest of the world gets left in the dark. I highly doubt other owners will put up with Casserly knowing more than they do.
 

fatness

against the grain
The "it was other knowledgeable agents throwing out a bogus story" idea doesn't float any more. There's been nothing to indicate that since the original guess some of us made to that effect. Too many NFL people and team people know something was wrong with Young's first test for it to be the case. Scratch that.

The "it was just plain scored wrong, so he took it over and we scored it right" idea doesn't float too well any more either. There would have been an explanation of what was "scored" wrong, how it happened, etc. if that had been the case. It likely would have just been re-scored, or an explanation offered of why it could not be. Plus, it would have taken an error by a firm experienced at administering these tests, which isn't impossible but is quite unlikely.

The "he had a disability we didn't know about, so he had to retake it" idea still floats, because if there's a disability involved the league has to keep it confidential by law, I believe. If they can't say why the first test was "scored wrong", we would see something like we see now ---- multiple guesses at what was going on by various team front offices.

There is some reason they cannot say what happened ---- that is my guess. The league, although preoccupied with revenue sharing and the CBA at the moment, knows they look stupid and dishonest and disorganized now. If they could say something, anything, to clear it up a little I think they would. Maybe not full disclosure, but more than they've said.

I'd vote for the "disability we were informed of after he took the test and got a 6" theory at the present moment.

 
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Jason Wood

Zoo York
Confidential? Hello. Results are released this week or next just like every previous year. That is not confidential.
Pretty sure they don't get released to the public. Somebody just leaks them out.At least, that's the way it used to be.
You're right, Capella.That brings up an interesting point - why not release the score? They release all the other info like 40 times and bench press reps. Those are tests. Why keep this test so secret?

J
Joe, I see X reasons for what you're asking...1) NFL prospects are physical specimens. Sure, even though they may not all be the fastest, strongest, etc...they are, to a man, faster, stronger and more athletic than the vast majority of people.

2) NFL prospects do NOT have the same level of intellectual superiority, in fact, they clearly have in many cases a level of intellectual inferiority.

3) Reason 2 dovetails in that colleges and universities certainly don't want to advertise just how poorly many of these "student athletes" perform on a basic intellectual aptitude test

4) Reason 2 further dovetails in that there's the perception that Wonderlic scores/conventional intellect have little correlation with onfield NFL performance

5) Most football fans don't pay attention to nor care about the Wonderlic...only us fanatics do :)

 

Bruno2

Footballguy
Try a sample test here.

Even though a 6 is a very bad score, especially for a highly touted QB, after taking this sample test, I can see how someone could blow this test. Especially if they're not good test takers or not prepared, VY could have also felt rushed or under alot of pressure for some reason.

I think Young's stock will take a hit because of this. The Wonderlic test, is a very popular test used by 1,000s of companies, and there are about 20 different variations of the test. I assume teams take these scores very seriously or they wouldn't bother with them. The test does require quick decision making, and some analytical thinking. To me, the score is a red flag, he may need more time to develop than the average rookie QB. If I remember correctly, David Garrard scored very low and he's still a backup even though he's shown some promise. As well as WR Reche Caldwell, I remember hearing him scoring real low like an 8, and he's yet to become a starter, although he's had injury problems.If VY can't handle the Wonderlic, what's he gonna do when two 320lb D-linemen are chasing him down, and he's got to find an open receiver? Most likely he's gonna try to run and get hurt too often.

 

Couch Potato

Footballguy
Who is driving the coverup? And how?
I have obtained a confidential excerpt that might be helpful here...********************

NFL PUBLIC RELATIONS HANDBOOK

Wonderlic Test Choking Emergency:

When a National Championship QB and top-3 pick is choking on his Wonderlic test, he will instinctively grab at the throat. The QB also may panic, gasp for breath, turn blue, or become unconscious as he realizes the millions of dollars he is losing.

Immediate Care, Administered by NFL:

If the star QB has choked on his Wonderlic test, immediately begin the Wonderlic Maneuver to dislodge the score blocking the QB's top-3 status. The Wonderlic Maneuver consists of explaining the original test score away as 'incorrectly scored,' thus forcing the old score out and removing the evidence of choking, then creating a new score by having the QB retake the test. If choking again occurs, repeat as necessary (taking care not to reveal results of further choking) until a satisfactory result is obtained.

********************

 
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