Eye openers with retired parents (1 Viewer)

[IC FBGCav]

One that I will never forget was my mom asking me to send money instead of flowers.  She has ssi and a state pension.  I never knew how in trouble she was before that.  But she gave everything to my sisters and their kids.  Plus she helped me when I needed it most.  But it was hard to dump her cash when I knew she was in trouble from giving it to others.  I was a crappie son, amirite?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

My Dad bought a hotplate and a coffee maker for the basement and never comes upstairs anymore.  Hotplate grilled cheese sammiches not bad though. 

You're not a crappy son, people do things for their own reasons sometimes at their own detriment.  Don't worry about the past, concentrate on what you can do to improve the situation today, tomorrow, and next week. 

 

[The Big Guy]

People can not have rational money conversations with family in this country for some weird reason. I work with a lot of retired folks at their bank and many of them are very check to check, house rich and cash poor. Their kids still seems to think, in many cases, that their parents are in much better shape financially then they actually are. I watch the elderly take home loans to give money to their kids, knowing that they can't really afford to do it and the kid will never pay them back.

So sad. I warn them the best I can, but you never stop being a parent. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

My mom was a public school teacher for over 40 years, so I thought at least she'll have a nice state pension to keep her safe and comfortable for life. After six months in a (nice, mid-level at best)  memory care home, everything's gone and it's Medicaid time. Now, she's got essentially the same as someone who never worked a day. 

 

[TLEF316]

I'm becoming very nervous that my brothers and I will have to support my mom at some point down the road. She received a a big settlement from my dad after their divorce (a fully paid off house and significant stock in a very large insurance agency that eventually sold for big $$$) but through some bad financial decisions (sold a lot of the stock too early, took out a 2nd mortgage on the house) horrible spending habits and some bad luck (bought a larger house with her former fiance that they'll take a bath on when someone eventually buys it) its pretty clear she's already struggling a little bit.

She's only 60, has been well employed for most of the last 20 years post-marriage (including a 6 or 7 year run of 6 figure earnings) but she's just absolutely pissed it away with her spending. (which isn't stopping despite her claims that she's struggling a little). There's the potential for some additional help if my grandmother has money left at the end (got a pretty decent inheritance from a good friend but it could easily go away if she's forced into long-term nursing care for a while at the end) but that's obviously not something you want to rely on.

It's one thing for someone who lived paycheck to paycheck their whole life to need help at the end, but I'm starting to get a big resentful knowing that I'm probably going to have to kick in some $$ to help her out in 10 years (if not earlier) solely because she's spent the last 25 throwing money away on unnecessary luxuries.

 

[jamny]

I can definitely relate. I've learned a lot about my mom since my father died back in 2001. Especially how much she keeps from me. I didn't know that my father's cancer treatment wiped out their life savings until after he died. She still lives in and pays $900/month rent for the same house that they lived together in (in Dallas). My father never bought a house. She lives on her SSI checks and it's really tough to get her to accept help. My brother sometimes lives with her, sometimes in his own place, depending on his work/relationship situation. I don't really talk to him (long story)

We went to visit back in May and she happened to mention needing cataract surgery. I told her we'd be willing to help but it didn't get much further than that. I didn't realize that cataracts are the leading cause of blindness until I looked it up when I got home. I immediately called her, put $500 in her account and told her she has to get the consultation. I told her that the money probably won't cover it and to let us know how much more she'll need. She goes through the process and calls last week in tears. I immediately get nervous that something bad happened until she finally calms down and tells me she's going to need more money. I tell her "I said it would probably cost more when I sent the first money" Doesn't matter, she's embarrassed to ask for more.

We've been trying to get her to move up here to NY for over a year now. We want to buy her a condo near our house that will enable her to have probably $400-$500 more a month to herself. Plus, she could probably get better health insurance here than in Texas like with an Advantage Plan that probably won't cost much more if anything at all. Of course she continues to avoid it being about money and says she's afraid of the cold and snow even though they lived here for 20 years before moving to Texas. Everything is within walking distance here unlike by her where she has to rely on my brother or neighbors to get her around since she doesn't drive. We know it would be financially better to do this now and having a condo we can sell when she's gone instead of at some inevitable time when the owner sells her house and she's forced to leave in short notice. I know there's lots of memories in the house but it's so hard to get her to face the realities of her situation.

Really frustrating but I hope once the cataract surgeries are done, one eye done so far, maybe we can finally convince her that she needs help.

 

[wikkidpissah]

I have been raising parents in their 90s to their graves for 3 years now and, while I am probably closer to the age of most FFAppers' parents - i have a 45yo son - than they are, there are a few things about dealing w senility and widiocy (like my new word for sole-surviving parents?) i can pass on:

1) Once they hit 75, they no longer hear what their children say and your concern scares and shames them. Tell them nothing. Urge never, as they will do something ruinously foolish and entirely unrelated in hopes of appeasing you. Ask them questions about themselves that relate to your concerns for them and suggest the things you want to get thru to them in response. Telling them that what you're suggesting is something you read in an article increases their heedfulness x 10+.

2) Once they hit 85, ALL words spoken by other people scare them unless those words anticipate or confirm what they were thinking. Don't waste your time unless you can find a way to go over their heads and just do what they need done, which gets much easier from this point on. Pat them like a friendly nurse if you want them to remember an encounter.

3) If they are alone, get people into their lives or them into the lives of others. Four-Wall Syndrome skews the judgement of even the most young and vital, but is lethal to eldsters and their estates.

GL -

 

[NewlyRetired]

Reading this thread makes me feel lucky.

Last year my parents (ages 82 and 85) asked me to take over their finances as it was getting too much for my dad.  Happily this was not out of any financial need.  My father even forces me to take some money once a month as payment for managing everything.

So once I week, I drive over to his house and do his bills.  It makes them happy and secure and every one in my family can breath easier because they are both set for life with no financial issues luckily.

 

[jamny]

Reading this thread makes me feel lucky.

Last year my parents (ages 82 and 85) asked me to take over their finances as it was getting too much for my dad.  Happily this was not out of any financial need.  My father even forces me to take some money once a month as payment for managing everything.

So once I week, I drive over to his house and do his bills.  It makes them happy and secure and every one in my family can breath easier because they are both set for life with no financial issues luckily.

Thankfully this is the situation with my wife's parents.

 

[jamny]

Thanks for the valuable advice wikkid. A big part of trying to get Mom up here is the hopes of getting her out and around more. She has a few friends but mostly stays inside except for a walk everyday to a convenience store. Thankfully she's very computer literate and loves the website pogo where she likes to play games and chat with people. Her and my aunt (who came over with my Mom from Germany when they were 18) would spend a lot of time on there but she died a few years back from brain cancer. In the 15 years since my dad died, my brother has done little to get her out of the house to meet new people. I think I can definitely help in that area here.

They moved when I was 18 so I've never really had an adult relationship with her. Phone calls and visits were usually just good times without much seriousness. You are so correct saying that citing articles helps the discussion. That's how I got her to go for the consultation for the cataract surgery. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get her to stop smoking even though she is a colon cancer survivor. My wife does tell me that I do tend to get a bit too stern with her and that's something I am always trying to work on. It's the constant keeping of secrets and outright lying to me that gets me going. I need to try to look at it from her point of view more often.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Thanks for the valuable advice wikkid. A big part of trying to get Mom up here is the hopes of getting her out and around more. She has a few friends but mostly stays inside except for a walk everyday to a convenience store. Thankfully she's very computer literate and loves the website pogo where she likes to play games and chat with people. Her and my aunt (who came over with my Mom from Germany when they were 18) would spend a lot of time on there but she died a few years back from brain cancer. In the 15 years since my dad died, my brother has done little to get her out of the house to meet new people. I think I can definitely help in that area here.

They moved when I was 18 so I've never really had an adult relationship with her. Phone calls and visits were usually just good times without much seriousness. You are so correct saying that citing articles helps the discussion. That's how I got her to go for the consultation for the cataract surgery. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get her to stop smoking even though she is a colon cancer survivor. My wife does tell me that I do tend to get a bit too stern with her and that's something I am always trying to work on. It's the constant keeping of secrets and outright lying to me that gets me going. I need to try to look at it from her point of view more often.

There is no specific point to life except to live, love and leave things better than you found them. Comes a time in each life where a person moves from looking for worth to fearing worthlessness. Remove fear, doubt and regret where you can with as light a touch as possible once a loved one reaches this point and reward yourself by learning from these people that worry and guilt are life's greatest foes.

 

[wikkidpissah]

One more thing - always be mindful that your parents own the keys to your rage. They installed them. Whether they were the very best or worst of guardians, it is the job of parents to frustrate their children's impulses into compliance. In one of the very few big human design flaws, these efforts and the resulting rage - will you ever be as upset over the worst of things as an adult as you were at not getting the candybar you wanted at the checkout counter as a kid? - occur at a time when humans are best at absorbing and worst at processing. As a result, by adulthood we have a engorged bladder of distilled rage tucked under our personalities that we can neither access nor edit nor relieve but by release of rage for rage's sake, with no one an easier target than those who taught us frustration.

There's a lot more I can and do write about this but, for this thread's purposes, I'll merely remind you that dealing with your parents as elders is the most important time to remember their "count to ten" lessons.

 

[Corporation]

One more thing - always be mindful that your parents own the keys to your rage. They installed them. Whether they were the very best or worst of guardians, it is the job of parents to frustrate their children's impulses into compliance. In one of the very few big human design flaws, these efforts and the resulting rage - will you ever be as upset over the worst of things as an adult as you were at not getting the candybar you wanted at the checkout counter as a kid? - occur at a time when humans are best at learning and worst at processing. As a result, by adulthood we have a spongeful of distilled rage tucked under our personalities that we can neither access nor edit.

There's a lot more I can and do write about this but, for this thread's purposes, I'll merely remind you that dealing with your parents as elders is the most important time to remember their "count to ten" lessons.

Wow, very true.

 

[HellToupee]

Reading this thread makes me feel lucky.

Last year my parents (ages 82 and 85) asked me to take over their finances as it was getting too much for my dad.  Happily this was not out of any financial need.  My father even forces me to take some money once a month as payment for managing everything.

So once I week, I drive over to his house and do his bills.  It makes them happy and secure and every one in my family can breath easier because they are both set for life with no financial issues luckily.

I do my moms bills and the best thing I've done is autopay all utilities 

 

[HellToupee]

My mom was a public school teacher for over 40 years, so I thought at least she'll have a nice state pension to keep her safe and comfortable for life. After six months in a (nice, mid-level at best)  memory care home, everything's gone and it's Medicaid time. Now, she's got essentially the same as someone who never worked a day. 

What happened to her pension?

 

[The Big Guy]

What happened to her pension?

It will go towards her care, but because it falls short of what her care must cost (I know in NJ it can run from 6K to 15K depending on the level of care and the place) medicare picks up what she can't pay for herself.

 

[HellToupee]

It will go towards her care, but because it falls short of what her care must cost (I know in NJ it can run from 6K to 15K depending on the level of care and the place) medicare picks up what she can't pay for herself.

Horrible

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It will go towards her care, but because it falls short of what her care must cost (I know in NJ it can run from 6K to 15K depending on the level of care and the place) medicare picks up what she can't pay for herself.

Horrible

Same thing happened to my Grandmother, all of Railroad pension went right to the long-term care.  She didn't even have enough left over to buy a picture frame. 

 

[Chemical X]

don't get me started on this one.

 

[matuski]

My Dad retired 11 years ago, started a consulting business.. financially set (wealthy).  Married a woman 2 years older than me so I wont see a dime. 

My Mom retired last month.. gets my Dad's government pension + SS + small 401k ($300k).  She will be fine as long as she doesn't do anything stupid (not a sure thing).

Lesson learned: parlay my experience, relationships, and expertise into my own business in the near future.  My mom did alright as a PT and worked until she was 66 - without my dad's pension she might be in a tight spot right now.  I can work my #### into the dirt, max out 401k's, yada yada.. I won't be truly wealthy until the money I am making other people becomes money I am making for myself.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

One more thing - always be mindful that your parents own the keys to your rage. They installed them. Whether they were the very best or worst of guardians, it is the job of parents to frustrate their children's impulses into compliance. In one of the very few big human design flaws, these efforts and the resulting rage - will you ever be as upset over the worst of things as an adult as you were at not getting the candybar you wanted at the checkout counter as a kid? - occur at a time when humans are best at learning and worst at processing. As a result, by adulthood we have a spongeful of distilled rage tucked under our personalities that we can neither access nor edit.

There's a lot more I can and do write about this but, for this thread's purposes, I'll merely remind you that dealing with your parents as elders is the most important time to remember their "count to ten" lessons.




 

Holy ####, wikkid ...very heavy.  And very true.  

 

[eoMMan]

I have a coworker...probably in her 50s...whose mom lives with her and her husband. 

I don't know the husband personally but I give him credit. That's a huge sacrifice and strain on a marriage. It would be very tough for my wife and I having her mother....or even my mother....move in and live with us.

 

[Mjolnirs]

My in-laws, 83 and 79, live with us.  They are both in early stages of dementia and in declining physical health.  We converted our downstairs to an apartment for them.  (bedroom, den, bathroom and small kitchen area)  They handled their money well and don't have any financial issues, right now it is simply a health thing.  Neither drives any longer and my wife has Power of Attorney.  We do all of their shopping, meals and driving to doctor appointments.  Thankfully I work from home, so when my wife takes one to the doctor, I'm home with the other.  We've put a good bit of their money in a trust, which should protect it if one (or both) requires a nursing home ... a few years from now.  We tried to get my FIL to do this years ago, when he was fully healthy, but he wouldn't have anything to do with it.

It's a full time job, but it's worth it.

My parents on the other had, a completely different story.  They never handled their money well.  They are a little younger, 74 and 72, and live ss check to ss check.  Their house burned down recently, and they took the insurance settlement and money earned from selling the property, and bought a new house.  With the insurance money they paid off the mortgage on the old house, and I urged them to buy or rent something small.  Something within the range of money they now had.  The house next to my sister was for sale and they were set on buying it (and my sister thought it was a great idea), and they did.  Now, for the two of them they have a three bedroom house with a two car garage and a brand new mortgage.

 

[Peyton Marino]

my mom started asking me for money when I was 24.  she's not retired but we were never very well off.  i've been very fortunate to make it to where I am, compared with where I started.

when the asks became more frequent and larger, I told her we needed to have a discussion about her finances and living expenses.  first thing, she needed to quit smoking.  that was a non-starter for her.

 

[Sand]

She's only 60, has been well employed for most of the last 20 years post-marriage (including a 6 or 7 year run of 6 figure earnings) but she's just absolutely pissed it away with her spending. (which isn't stopping despite her claims that she's struggling a little). There's the potential for some additional help if my grandmother has money left at the end (got a pretty decent inheritance from a good friend but it could easily go away if she's forced into long-term nursing care for a while at the end) but that's obviously not something you want to rely on.

If she works until full retirement age she should get a decent SS check.  If she takes it at 62 not so much.  Does she talk about taking SS soon?

 

[Jayrod]

My wife and I have 4 totally different situations with our parents (yay divorce!) and I've been thinking about the end game financially for a while now.

1 - My mom, 61; remarried an upper-middle class guy who makes good money, is a little younger and is very responsible.  She should be set for life unless something bad happens....but she loves to spend money too.  She is working at a job she really likes and makes a modest salary, but doesn't have to work.

2 - My MIL, 67; lives with us.  She is a retired teacher with a decent pension and $200K+ in liquid investments.  She is frugal but has never been on her own and asks a million questions about money.  We will be caring for her personally (as long as we can manage it) until her passing.  She has had a couple of health issues, her mom died from Alzheimer's but she is very active, health conscious and seems to be in good shape.

3 - My dad, 64; remarried a much younger woman and is basically raising a step-daughter (19) and 2 step-nephews (18 & 16).  He is living like a 50 year old, still looks young, but I wouldn't be surprised if his health took a nosedive in the next 5-10 years.  He has very little put away, but his wife will continue to work and she makes decent money.  They may be OK if they can get the kids out of the house, but they are both giving people and I'm not sure he will be able to retire in the next 10 years.  He probably makes me the most nervous out of the 4.

4 - My FIL, 67; still single, living with a younger girlfriend (seems serious, it's been years now) and basically trying to start a new career as a college professor.  He was a successful photographer for decades, but lost a good size retirement account in the divorce and then his business went under due to the digital revolution and hundreds of part time photographers in the market now.  He may need some help if something goes south with the girlfriend, but we are closely tied to his ex-wife who still hates him, so it will have to be one of my BIL's and only one of those has any money to speak of...this is a big wildcard situation, but I can't see him coming to us for anything.

I think as this plays out over the next 10-20 years, we will have a couple of tough situations with our fathers.  But for now, all four are healthy individuals, in seemingly good relationships and in decent physical shape and active.  Only my MIL is actually retired.  The rest are working with no end in sight.  Both fathers can't retire and my mother just doesn't want to get bored.  I just hope everybody can hold off until the grandkids are out of their houses in 15 years or so before needing any serious assistance.

 

[msommer]

I guess I have been lucky then. The worst reveal from my parents post retirement was that my dad did not like rye bread. He effing forced us kids to eat that ever day in our lunch boxes. My sister, brother and I were floored, and it only came out when my mom went to a nursing home with Alzheimer's about five years ago. My dad turns 85 this year. Cool guy, still active, my mom died last year and he's dating a 77 year old now...

 

[Jayrod]

my mom started asking me for money when I was 24.  she's not retired but we were never very well off.  i've been very fortunate to make it to where I am, compared with where I started.

when the asks became more frequent and larger, I told her we needed to have a discussion about her finances and living expenses.  first thing, she needed to quit smoking.  that was a non-starter for her.

Oof.  That's tough.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

My mother passed away in 2012. I'd give anything to have her around even if she had financial trouble.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Wow, very true.

Holy ####, wikkid ...very heavy.  And very true.  

Glad you think so, guys and i hope you find some value from it (btw, i couldnt help but edit a few points in the OP when i reread it this morning:

"One more thing - always be mindful that your parents own the keys to your rage. They installed them. Whether they were the very best or worst of guardians, it is the job of parents to frustrate their children's impulses into compliance. In one of the very few big human design flaws, these efforts and the resulting rage - will you ever be as upset over the worst of things as an adult as you were at not getting the candybar you wanted at the checkout counter as a kid? - occur at a time when humans are best at absorbing and worst at processing. As a result, by adulthood we have a engorged bladder of distilled rage tucked under our personalities that we can neither access nor edit nor relieve but by release of rage for rage's sake, with no one an easier target than those who taught us frustration. 

There's a lot more I can and do write about this but, for this thread's purposes, I'll merely remind you that dealing with your parents as elders is the most important time to remember their "count to ten" lessons."

In the last few years I've been working out some theories as to why, when the civilized adult is offered the choice between using the animalistic anachronism of the "feedfight####" lower brains leftover from our evolution and the miraculous computer (and culmination of 4+ billion years of earthly progress) that is the human cerebral cortex as the executive of their personality, they almost invariably choose the puppybabymonkey and leave the computer to mere data functions. Granted, it's an integrated system, but why we refuse to recognize our animalism for what it is and work to isolate it from any more harm than is necessary mystifies me. Further thought leads me to suggest this unresolved rage left over from our nurture phase as a possible answer. More later -

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Wikkid, if you ever (or the next time you) decide to wander off in the desert and ingest some hallucinogens, give me three days notice, because I'd like to go. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

Wikkid, if you ever (or the next time you) decide to wander off in the desert and ingest some hallucinogens, give me three days notice, because I'd like to go. 

Lived 35 yrs in the desert. Hallucinogenic properties have always been part of my original equipment (tho i've used some starter kits in my time) and wandering is a natural inclination. But i'm an old man now - wracked w arthritis and doubt. If you wanna hike what little of Hawk Hill i can manage w me here in Vt, come ahead. We'll have spuds for dinner.

 

[Poke_4_Life]

This is an interesting topic.  I'll play along.  Luckily both my wife and I's parents are still married.

MIL/FIL - have had financial problems, but seem to be OK now.  Both are in their 70's.  He gets full disability from VA from Vietnam (Agent Orange exposure, Type II diabetes and heart disease).  She's a retired teacher.  Between his VA checks, SSI, her retirement, and his sideline of business coaching, they are pulling in more per month now than possibly ever. They do have health problems, both had fought of cancer scares and she has horrible vision.  He's been having vision trouble recently and this scares us a lot.  They may not be able to drive soon.  Oh and my wife is an only child.  No siblings to help out there.  My FIL is also a crotchety coot, so there's that.  Financially they should be fine, but they will need more help soon.

M/F - both in their 60's.  Been very smart with money and despite my mom battling breast cancer currently are in good health.  I'm not worried about them at all going forward.  Also my sister would insist on them living with her if their health ever got bad.    

 

[The Duff Man]

My mom is 60, never married (raised us on her own) and only worked for about 10 years of her life.  

Has been living off the government for the last 18 years. 

I managed to crawl my way out of that situation.  

She has asked me a few times to give her money, I said no. 

 

[perry147]

My wife's parents are having some money issues now. Honestly I like my MIL but she is just so freaking head strong (like her daughter) and will ask for help nor will she let my wife look at everything. She  is 82 and can't drive and does not know how to use a computer. Still pays most things by check and can't keep track of what she has paid and what she has not paid.

 

[Bull Dozier]

My in-laws and parents are in polar opposite situations.

My parents - my dad worked a state job for most of his career.  Saved wisely, so he has a solid pension and income stream for retirement.  My parents are in their early 70s.  Health has been declining, but nothing serious.  They should be set financially until they need to go to a care facility (still living in their own house) which I'm sure will sap whatever they have left.  The kids have all told them to enjoy their retirement and not worry about leaving an inheritance for us.  Enjoy it while they can.

My in laws are a different story.  I'm pretty sure they never saved anything throughout their working careers.  They worked for apartment complexes, where she would work in the office, and he was the handy man.  Doing this gig, they got a free apartment, so they don't have any real estate.  "Retirement" time was coming so they built a house in northern Minnesota.  They of course had to take out a mortgage on it, so they had to keep working.  He now works at a grocery store in the meat market.  She works back in the cities during the week, then goes up to their house for the weekend.  She's in her 70s, he's a little younger.  They'll probably both work until they physically can't anymore.

 

[jamny]

Thanks for the great insight wikkid. It's given me a new perspective into how I react to my mom and how our relationship has changed since my father's death. It's definitely a lot to process but I think I will be better prepared to understand what's going on. Thanks!

 

[NewlyRetired]

  He now works at a grocery store in the meat market.  She works back in the cities during the week, then goes up to their house for the weekend.  She's in her 70s, he's a little younger.  They'll probably both work until they physically can't anymore.

You have just described my definition of hell.

================

To be clear though, any one who "wants" to work until they drop is fine with me, more power to you especially if you really enjoy it.  I shudder at thinking about the people who "have" to work to survive at that age.

 

[Bull Dozier]

You have just described my definition of hell.

================

To be clear though, any one who "wants" to work until they drop is fine with me, more power to you especially if you really enjoy it.  I shudder at thinking about the people who "have" to work to survive at that age.

You hit the nail on the head.  They both would love to retire I'm sure.  My MIL stayed with us for a couple of years after my FIL retired.  I thought she kept working because she wasn't really ready to retire and didn't want to be stuck up in the woods.  I have since learned it was purely out of necessity and she wants to retire, or at least find something closer to their cabin.

Of course with their short sighted ways of doing things, they didn't bother to figure out any of this stuff before he quit his last job in the cities (which provided them with a home here) and just left.  She was going to stay with us for a summer while she found a job up there.  That summer turned into two years (which had to end because she and I are oil and water), which has turned into another almost two years, and she, surprisingly, still hasn't found a job anywhere close.  I am sure it will be that way until one of their health situations turns.

 

[Jayrod]

You hit the nail on the head.  They both would love to retire I'm sure.  My MIL stayed with us for a couple of years after my FIL retired.  I thought she kept working because she wasn't really ready to retire and didn't want to be stuck up in the woods.  I have since learned it was purely out of necessity and she wants to retire, or at least find something closer to their cabin.

Of course with their short sighted ways of doing things, they didn't bother to figure out any of this stuff before he quit his last job in the cities (which provided them with a home here) and just left.  She was going to stay with us for a summer while she found a job up there.  That summer turned into two years (which had to end because she and I are oil and water), which has turned into another almost two years, and she, surprisingly, still hasn't found a job anywhere close.  I am sure it will be that way until one of their health situations turns.

This stuff sounds really familiar.  Didn't you start a thread on it at one point?

 

[wikkidpissah]

Thanks for the great insight wikkid. It's given me a new perspective into how I react to my mom and how our relationship has changed since my father's death. It's definitely a lot to process but I think I will be better prepared to understand what's going on. Thanks!

Glad to be useful, Jammah. My perspective has been helped not only by caring for parents who are now so old they can no longer keep the curtains up on their motives and secrets, but from now being old and unhealthy enough myself to see the walls of the tunnel.

The Big2 in elderlife are most certainly loneliness and worthlessness. TV has helped some on the loneliness front - tho it has been really harmful to elder decision making because the 'friend'liest shows are usually the most brainless and exploitive - to counteract loved ones being generally less close-to-home than is optimal, but worthlessness is taking a big hit in a time of declining faith. Religion was invented to explain one's place in the world and to give reason and order to lives that are hard won, so the doubt that comes naturally to the declining body and mind has less answers without a proscribed faith and begins to fester. If one doesn't know whether a single thing they've done matters or is appreciated, the first of life's deaths occurs.

As yet, i only know one way to keep the other deaths from lining up for their turn. Love. No matter what awful ####s they've been, almost all of them have done enough for you to see at least some of your heart in each encounter. Put away the rage, stop trying to use your increased powers or their diminished capacity to finally win. You are not rich if you do not provide. By putting the crap aside and being as good as you can to them, you win, you're finally grown up. Get over yourself, for their sake if not yours.

If your and your siblings' love and attention aren't enough, get them out with others or others in to them. You do this and you will find yourself being asked to do much less by a parent than if you don't. If no one talks to them, the four walls will and that tunnel quickly looks to be the best escape then. nufced

 

[Spin]

I will likely end up supporting my in-laws down the road.  My wife's parents have absolutely no savings, or idea how retirement works.  I wrote about this a year ago in the Retirement thread, but nothing has changed since then.

Had a chat with my MIL and FIL over the weekend. My mother in law was talking about how she just has two more years til retirement. And my FIL is a general contractor. I started asking about her 401k etc, and her reply was "oh, no, I don't have one of those any more. I lost like 15k back in 2008, so i took all my money out and stopped contributing. Think about how awesome it'd be to have that money now?". So I asked her what she was planning on retiring on. "Oh the hospital's pension plan is 1.6% * number of years of service * annual pay".

She makes $13.54 an hour to answer phones for the hospital. She'll be eligible to collect after she'll have been there for 20 years in 2 years and she plans on retiring on that date.

Her retirement plan through work will pay her ~$754 a month. And she'll only be 57 so she won't be able to collect social security.

They literally have 0 savings and this is their retirement plan. All they do is talk about how close to retiring they are, and how awesome it will be to be retired etc. $750.. a month! Granted, they own their own house (a double wide sitting on a little over 3 acres), and have 0 debt. But still, I don't get how they're gonna survive.

The only thing that has changed is that the guy living on the plot next to them died last weekend and they're discussing taking out a loan against their house to buy his lot (~12k for a little more than an acre).

My mom made very good money for awhile, lost her job, and sunk everything (cashed her retirement/savings out) to open up her own quilt shop.  She's been running it for the last 3 or 4 years.  Her father is still a live, and worth quite a bit, so I imagine that inheritance is probably her retirement plan, but as long as the quilt shop keeps paying the bills, she'll likely just work there until she physically can't anymore, as she really seems to love doing, she's single and spends 6 days a week there.  I'm not really concerned about her in retirement.

My dad always worked random jobs, recently went back to school and graduated and started teaching high school History.  He's been doing that for 2 years, but still has a pension from working at Snap-on for so many years. He also works part time at ****'s Sporting Goods in the Golf shop.  He works there every Sunday, primarily cause he said he was bored and now makes an extra couple hundred bucks a month to sit around and talk golf with people.  He remarried and his wife is a medical assistant at a doctor's office.  She doesn't make much.  Together they make enough to pay their rent, etc, but definitely don't live a very lavish life, they don't eat out at restaurants, and only "fun" thing they really do is golf.  His wife's parents have a lot of money.  When I asked him about his retirement plan he pretty much said that her inheritance is their retirement plan.  Her father has a ton of land up in Michigan, a few condos down in Gulf Shores and he has investments in tons of random businesses. They're thinking that each of his kids are going to inherit around 10mil, if all keeps going well.  So I'm not worried about him either.  

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Lived 35 yrs in the desert. Hallucinogenic properties have always been part of my original equipment (tho i've used some starter kits in my time) and wandering is a natural inclination. But i'm an old man now - wracked w arthritis and doubt. If you wanna hike what little of Hawk Hill i can manage w me here in Vt, come ahead. We'll have spuds for dinner.

Sounds good to me. I've built up a fair amount of gunk on my 3rd eye, could use a good hike to squeegee it clean.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Sounds good to me. I've built up a fair amount of gunk on my 3rd eye, could use a good hike to squeegee it clean.

Yeesh, i hope that 3rd eye isn't the one my priests were always talkin about when i was an altar boy...

 

[Bull Dozier]

This stuff sounds really familiar.  Didn't you start a thread on it at one point?

I did.  I should have started it the day she moved in.  It would have been as epic as Arizona Ron's thread, minus the sex, drugs, and high quality wardrobe.

As it turned out, she moved out a month or so after I started the thread, so it was just the tail end of it.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Oof.  That's tough.

very tough.  especially when the pushback is "I didn't give you any ultimatums when I raised you."  hard to swallow.  a lot of the stuff wikkidpissah is saying hits home for me.

 

[worrierking]

This topic is right in my wheelhouse.  Mom had Alzheimer's and passed away last August of a rare cancer at 82.  It was awful, but it spared her the worst ravages of Alzheimer's.  Even though she was losing her mind, she cared for my 89-year-old Dad, who has severe back pain issues and has had a stroke.  His regular health is great, with the exception of some mild congestive heart failure.  All his problems are pain and nuisances (like his prostate, which is roughly the size of a cruise ship).  He has a condition called gastric dumping, in which the contents of his stomach will slip out into his intestine before it is fully digested.  It is usually associated with people who have had any of the different types of gastric weight-loss surgeries, but can affect anyone.  It's not dangerous, but apparently is very frightening and uncomfortable and he lives in fear of it occurring.  Because of this, he has developed an insane diet regimen that he insists on keeping.  It involves eating certain things at certain times of the day, like a single scrambled egg at 4:15 am.  He also has cheesecake and Yoplait yogurt (no other brand is acceptable) at 8pm before bed.  His caregiver must use the correct spoon or it isn't right and he will fuss.  He eats oatmeal at 1:15 am, but not just your regular oatmeal, it must be made the correct way, with an absurd amount of milk.  He lives at home and has 24-hour care with a sitter service and he refuses to go into a nursing home (he is too feeble for assisted living).  One of the main reasons he won't go into a nursing home is that he fears he won't be able to maintain his routine or give him the amount of pain medication he requires.  He is right, they will not accommodate such ridiculousness, so he is spending over $12,000 a month on his home care.  After mom died, I spent 8 months staying with him five nights a week, to attempt to save money and to hopefully convince him to give up his routine or to just display some flexibility in case he fell or got sick and was forced into a nursing home.  It didn't work, so to avoid further damaging my marriage, I quit spending nights with him and let him blow his money.  He saved well and invested, so he still has some money left to do this for a while.  But it will eventually dry up (he is too mean to die any time soon), and he will be forced into a nursing home on Medicaid and will have to use his house to pay it back.  He would be in much better shape financially in a private-pay nursing home, using his long-term care insurance and renting his house but he is not ready.  His mind is still good, so forcing him is not possible.  They can't take him involuntarily. 

Man, I just wrote a novel and I could go on, but you get the picture. 

 

[IC FBGCav]

This place is amazing.  So many great posts off a drunk guys thread.  I avoided coming back to this thread, because of my shame,  glad I did come back.