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Faceoff! Shockey vs. Witten for 2006 (and beyond) (1 Viewer)

2006 and beyond

  • Shockey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Witten

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Englishteacher

Footballguy
Has Witten reached his potential yet? Has Shockey? Witten is a very young guy for having been around for a couple of years. Early entry who was young in his class. Will T.O. catch all the TD passes? Will the aquisition of a better Right Tackle, Fabini (over Pettiti) enable Witten to get out on more passing routes. Will the aquisition of Owens turn the Boys into a passing team? Will the Cowboys continue to improve on Defense to the point where they won't have to pass? Has Shockey reached his peak? The guy STILL drops a lot of balls. Will Shockey revert to his injury proneness? Witten has always been pretty healthy.

Weigh in!

 
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notoriousbob

Footballguy
I may be talking out of my ### here, but it seems like Shockey is a little more inconsistent where Witten has been a little more consistent. I think the addition of TO will actually help Witten.

 
Shockey seems the safe play, since there were no significant changes that would affect his role in the offense.

The introduction of TO to Dallas is like tossing a hornets' nest into the middle of a ballet.

 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
For 2006 and beyond I've got to go with Shockey since he's got Eli throwing to him. Perhaps the Cowboys will get a good QB to replace Bledsoe, but at this point the QB situation seems more stable for the long term in NY. Shockey was awesome for me last year, finishing 3rd at TE only because he didn't play the final week and Todd Heap just edged him.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
Shockey and it isnt close
I agree that Shockey is the preferred choice here. Calling it not even close is confusing to me.
Shockey had better numbers in 2005 and has an improving QB and a soon to be declining running game (don't get me wrong Tiki may have another 1, 2, or 3 more good years, but he isn't getting any younger).Witten now has TO to take away receptions. Keyshawn only had 14 more fantasy points than TO and TO played 7 games to Johnson's 16. In 2004 TO had 70 more fantasy points in 2 less games that Johnson. TO is far more productive and Bledsoe isn't going to throw more than he did in 2005. Dallas' running game should improve and so should their defense, so I only see Witten's numbers going down. That and Bledsoe also is no spring chicken either with no good replacement.

That said, I agree with Oz, at this point I only see upside for Shockey and downside for Witten and Shockey was already scoring more in 2005.

 

nygiants56

Footballguy
Shockey and it isnt close
I agree that Shockey is the preferred choice here. Calling it not even close is confusing to me.
Shockey had better numbers in 2005 and has an improving QB and a soon to be declining running game (don't get me wrong Tiki may have another 1, 2, or 3 more good years, but he isn't getting any younger).Witten now has TO to take away receptions. Keyshawn only had 14 more fantasy points than TO and TO played 7 games to Johnson's 16. In 2004 TO had 70 more fantasy points in 2 less games that Johnson. TO is far more productive and Bledsoe isn't going to throw more than he did in 2005. Dallas' running game should improve and so should their defense, so I only see Witten's numbers going down. That and Bledsoe also is no spring chicken either with no good replacement.

That said, I agree with Oz, at this point I only see upside for Shockey and downside for Witten and Shockey was already scoring more in 2005.
I agree that Shockey is the better long term answer, but Witten is no pushover, either..his stats last year are skewed by the fact that he had to stay in and block quite a bit more than they wanted him to. Dallas suffered some O-line injuries. I think T.O. actually makes Witten BETTER..teams can't cover both T.O. 1-on-1,so he'll demand alot of attention, freeing up Witten to go 1-on-1 with a LB. Dallas couldn't stretch the field last year and they couldn't run, so teams would stack the line and pressure Bledsoe, especially once the o-line injuries began to happen.remember, Bledsoe looked All-World in the first 1/2 of the season,then his stats fell off sharply , due to the injuries.

now they get a healthy JJ back, a healthy line with some great new additions..you'll have to account for the running game with LB's, and pay special attention to T.O. with DB's...

who benefits most? Witten, imo..Parcells will always have a great TE in his offenses,and he uses them religiously..

t.o. makes everyone around him better...

 

Ridgelake

Footballguy
Witten is the steadier pick and Shockey the boom or bust.

Witten will catch 60 balls a year. He plays hurt. TO will not keep him from getting his 60. Bledsoe is more than good enough to hit the open guy. And Witten will be open a lot more with teams doubling TO and Glenn still a very big deep threat.

Shockey is the first or second option for NY. But his injury history makes him higher risk. If healthy, he puts up better numbers than Witten. Do you want to risk the upside?

 

perry147

Footballguy
Shockey is the winner here because he is the major part of the Giants passing game and has Eli throwing the ball to him.

Witten is solid but who knows what the QB situation will be next year and beyond.

 

Bankerguy

Footballguy
Once again, I still fail to see the "and it's not even close"

Last year:

Shockey

65 Catches

891 Yards

7 TD's

Witten

66 Catches

757 Yards

6 TD's

For those touting Shockey as leaps and bounds over Witten can you please include your stat predictions for 2006.

Here's mine.

I expect a mild improvements for both TE's this year.

Shockey (I estimate TE 3)

70 Catches

960 Yards

7 TD's

Witten (I estimate TE 4 or 5)

75 Catches

880 Yards

7 TD's

 

perry147

Footballguy
Once again, I still fail to see the "and it's not even close"

Last year:

Shockey

65 Catches

891 Yards

7 TD's

Witten

66 Catches

757 Yards

6 TD's

For those touting Shockey as leaps and bounds over Witten can you please include your stat predictions for 2006.

Here's mine.

I expect a mild improvements for both TE's this year.

Shockey (I estimate TE 3)

70 Catches

960 Yards

7 TD's

Witten (I estimate TE 4 or 5)

75 Catches

880 Yards

7 TD's
I think the reason most people chose Shockey was the QB situation. Swap the two and I would choose Witten (NYG) over Shockey (DAL).
 

Bankerguy

Footballguy
Once again, I still fail to see the "and it's not even close"

Last year:

Shockey

65 Catches

891 Yards

7 TD's

Witten

66 Catches

757 Yards

6 TD's

For those touting Shockey as leaps and bounds over Witten can you please include your stat predictions for 2006. 

Here's mine.

I expect a mild improvements for both TE's this year.

Shockey  (I estimate TE 3)

70 Catches

960 Yards

7 TD's

Witten (I estimate TE 4 or 5)

75 Catches

880 Yards

7 TD's
I think the reason most people chose Shockey was the QB situation. Swap the two and I would choose Witten (NYG) over Shockey (DAL).
I agree Shockey will have better stats. I just question the size of the "gap", some are mentioning. In fact, after looking at where I expect these two to finish for the year. I might be more inclined to wait to draft my TE this year. I think there are solid players available in the TE 4-7 range that I will probably wait for.
 

Pictus Cat

Footballguy
If I had Shockey, I would trade for Witten at some point before Shockey gets hurt. I think Shockey will be gound up this year between the Giant's schedule and their passing options.

 

Billy Ball Thorton

Footballguy
Shockey and it isnt close
Exactly the sentence I was prepared to reply with. :goodposting:
Simply ridiculous statement....imoWhat are your stat projections for this year?
Thier stats were similar last year (shockeys #'s still better) and he did it with one less game. Shockey was hurt the last part of the year week 15-16-17 he had a ttoal of 51 yards and no td's.

QB situation is better in NY and as others have said the addition of TO is not going to help JW. So to predict better #'s from last year is not realistic.

If JS stays healthy he will have 1000+ yd season and between 8-10 tds. I see Witten hovering around his stats last year.

 
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-OZ-

Footballguy
:shrug: as a basic rule, I prefer TEs who are the best receiver on their team.

Shockey > Plax (or at worst his equal)

Witten <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TO

 

Spike

Footballguy
For 2006 and beyond I've got to go with Shockey since he's got Eli throwing to him. Perhaps the Cowboys will get a good QB to replace Bledsoe, but at this point the QB situation seems more stable for the long term in NY. Shockey was awesome for me last year, finishing 3rd at TE only because he didn't play the final week and Todd Heap just edged him.
:goodposting:
 

crnerblitz

Footballguy
:shrug: as a basic rule, I prefer TEs who are the best receiver on their team.

Shockey > Plax (or at worst his equal)

Witten <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TO
:goodposting: Factor in that Witten is really only an average TE that reaped the rewards of his team being shorthanded in 2004 and this discussion is over.
 

Mark Wimer

Moderator
Shockey and it isnt close
I agree that Shockey is the preferred choice here. Calling it not even close is confusing to me.
Shockey had better numbers in 2005 and has an improving QB and a soon to be declining running game (don't get me wrong Tiki may have another 1, 2, or 3 more good years, but he isn't getting any younger).Witten now has TO to take away receptions. Keyshawn only had 14 more fantasy points than TO and TO played 7 games to Johnson's 16. In 2004 TO had 70 more fantasy points in 2 less games that Johnson. TO is far more productive and Bledsoe isn't going to throw more than he did in 2005. Dallas' running game should improve and so should their defense, so I only see Witten's numbers going down. That and Bledsoe also is no spring chicken either with no good replacement.

That said, I agree with Oz, at this point I only see upside for Shockey and downside for Witten and Shockey was already scoring more in 2005.
I agree that Shockey is the better long term answer, but Witten is no pushover, either..his stats last year are skewed by the fact that he had to stay in and block quite a bit more than they wanted him to. Dallas suffered some O-line injuries. I think T.O. actually makes Witten BETTER..teams can't cover both T.O. 1-on-1,so he'll demand alot of attention, freeing up Witten to go 1-on-1 with a LB. Dallas couldn't stretch the field last year and they couldn't run, so teams would stack the line and pressure Bledsoe, especially once the o-line injuries began to happen.remember, Bledsoe looked All-World in the first 1/2 of the season,then his stats fell off sharply , due to the injuries.

now they get a healthy JJ back, a healthy line with some great new additions..you'll have to account for the running game with LB's, and pay special attention to T.O. with DB's...

who benefits most? Witten, imo..Parcells will always have a great TE in his offenses,and he uses them religiously..t.o. makes everyone around him better...
I think that Witten continues to see a lot of balls as long as Coach Parcells is in charge down in Dallas. Think about all the great TE's he's coached/utilized over the years and Witten is as talented as any of those other Parcells TE's. I am not a big fan of Shockey - he just seems to have trouble staying healthy and tends to wear down over the course of the season, IMO...he had 3 stinkers out of the final four games he played last year, just when fantasy owners needed him to excel:

+----------+-------------+----+

| WK OPP | REC YD | TD |

+----------+-------------+----+

| 1 ari | 2 29 | 1 |

| 2 nor | 5 64 | 0 |

| 3 sdg | 6 101 | 0 |

| 4 ram | 4 57 | 1 |

| 6 dal | 5 129 | 1 |

| 7 den | 3 44 | 0 |

| 8 was | 3 29 | 1 |

| 9 sfo | 4 77 | 1 |

| 10 min | 5 55 | 0 |

| 11 phi | 1 1 | 1 |

| 12 sea | 10 127 | 1 |

| 13 dal | 2 20 | 0 |

| 14 phi | 10 107 | 0 |

| 15 kan | 3 33 | 0 |

| 16 was | 2 18 | 0 |

+----------+-------------+----+

| TOTAL | 65 891 | 7 |

+----------+-------------+----+

Witten closed the season strongly, except for the bad outing vs. Carolina

| Jason Witten career stats | 2005 Dallas Cowboys |

+----------+-------------+----+

| WK OPP | REC YD | TD |

+----------+-------------+----+

| 1 sdg | 1 12 | 0 |

| 2 was | 4 35 | 0 |

| 3 sfo | 6 85 | 1 |

| 4 oak | 5 49 | 0 |

| 5 phi | 7 80 | 0 |

| 6 nyg | 5 56 | 1 |

| 7 sea | 2 47 | 0 |

| 8 ari | 5 71 | 0 |

| 10 phi | 3 27 | 0 |

| 11 det | 2 15 | 0 |

| 12 den | 9 82 | 1 |

| 13 nyg | 1 5 | 0 |

| 14 kan | 7 93 | 1 |

| 15 was | 4 41 | 1 |

| 16 car | 1 9 | 0 |

| 17 ram | 4 50 | 1 |

+----------+-------------+----+

| TOTAL | 66 757 | 6 |

+----------+-------------+----+

 

Prime

Footballguy
:shrug: as a basic rule, I prefer TEs who are the best receiver on their team.

Shockey > Plax (or at worst his equal)

Witten <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TO
:goodposting: Factor in that Witten is really only an average TE that reaped the rewards of his team being shorthanded in 2004 and this discussion is over.
Factor in the fact that you obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about, and this discussion has only begun.
 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Eli loves Shockey. After seeing Eli play at the end of '04 I was all over Shockey going into last season. As long as Eli is in NY (which will be a long time), Shockey comes out way ahead.

 

Bears_Man2

Footballguy
Shockey

I'm riding Eli to Shockey in my dynasty league. Both signed for the next infinite years and already have a great chemistry after Eli Year 2.

 

Noahs Troopers

Footballguy
:shrug: as a basic rule, I prefer TEs who are the best receiver on their team.

Shockey > Plax (or at worst his equal)

Witten <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TO
:goodposting: Factor in that Witten is really only an average TE that reaped the rewards of his team being shorthanded in 2004 and this discussion is over.
Factor in the fact that you obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about, and this discussion has only begun.
:goodposting:
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
:shrug: as a basic rule, I prefer TEs who are the best receiver on their team.

Shockey > Plax (or at worst his equal)

Witten <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TO
:goodposting: Factor in that Witten is really only an average TE that reaped the rewards of his team being shorthanded in 2004 and this discussion is over.
Factor in the fact that you obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about, and this discussion has only begun.
Witten is a very good TE, his talent might even be close to Shockey's, but the other factors add up to give Shock the decided edge.
 

Englishteacher

Footballguy
Did anyone see that Chris Smith had Jason Witten as unranked, not in the Top30 or so, for TE's in dynasty? Was this just an error?

 

Steelers4Life

Footballguy
:lmao: at anyone who believes Shockey is much better than Witten, or that Witten is only an average pass catching TE. Considering that Witten is 2 years younger and his 2004 season as age 22 was better than any year of Shockey's career, there's no basis whatsoever for that opinion. If Eli Manning is the reason why someone see a huge difference between them, I call that a major reach.

Witten is an elite TE who was forced to stay in and block more last year because of injuries on the offensive line. To think less of him because his numbers were down from his 2004 season is ridiculous when it really had nothing to do with him.

As for who I'd rather have, I think they're both in the top 5 and wouldn't care which one I ended up with.

 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
If Eli Manning is the reason why someone see a huge difference between them, I call that a major reach.
Why? For 2006 I think Bledsoe will be about as good as Manning, but I fear TO will take many of Witten's receptions. I imagine by the time TO's gone Bledsoe will be gone, so the question is who will be throwing to Witten once he becomes the main target? They might get someone good at QB to replace Bledsoe, but if I had to pick between the two for a dynasty league I'd go with Shockey because you know Eli will be throwing to him and running the offense.
 

Steelers4Life

Footballguy
If Eli Manning is the reason why someone see a huge difference between them, I call that a major reach.
Why? For 2006 I think Bledsoe will be about as good as Manning, but I fear TO will take many of Witten's receptions. I imagine by the time TO's gone Bledsoe will be gone, so the question is who will be throwing to Witten once he becomes the main target? They might get someone good at QB to replace Bledsoe, but if I had to pick between the two for a dynasty league I'd go with Shockey because you know Eli will be throwing to him and running the offense.
I guess it depends on how good you think Eli actually is. You probably think he's going to be better than I do.Considering that Eli was throwing to Shockey last year and Witten was held into to block on all but 10-12 passing plays per game and their numbers were relatively close, I think it's just about impossible to justify saying that Shockey is better and it isn't even close. Even further, people who call Witten average must not have ever seen him play or only starting watching football last year.

I also hesitate to plan for my dynasty teams for anything more than 2 years in advance.

 

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