KiddLattimer
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see how this affects Leinart/Boldin/Fitzgerald/Edge though I dont suspect they will stop throwing with that swiss cheese line.From KFFL...
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Fallout from the AZ loss (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KiddLattimer
- Start date
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Wow, interesting. I wonder how much of the play-calling in the 4th quarter was Green and how much was Rowen.
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
skillz
Footballguy
Wasn't that his job before he became head coach in NY?To me, this seems to be an overreaction. Arizona stomped the Bears for three quarters. If Hester doesn't return that punt (not the offense's fault), or Rackers doesn't miss the FG (again not the offense's fault) AZ wins and I don't think Green does this. My sense is that he is afraid for his own job now and is throwing people under the bus before he loses his job.
faulkfan
Footballguy
I agree.Leinhart has shown more professionalism through all this than Green has and he is the one who truly got shafted.
Kudos to Matt, shame on Denny!
Statorama
Footballguy
Well that's weird. The playcalling in the first half was awesome.
From what I saw last night, this team has what it takes to reel off 11 wins in a row if they don't curl up and die in the last 15 minutes of their games.
Killer instinct is tough to instill in a team, because it has to come from the top down. Right now, there's certainly a speed bump on the Cardinals that is keeping them from being that kind of a team.
From what I saw last night, this team has what it takes to reel off 11 wins in a row if they don't curl up and die in the last 15 minutes of their games.
Killer instinct is tough to instill in a team, because it has to come from the top down. Right now, there's certainly a speed bump on the Cardinals that is keeping them from being that kind of a team.
Statorama
Footballguy
Matt is an even better interview now than when he was in college. He was terrific last night in all aspects of the game.
CalBear
Footballguy
36 carries for 55 yards seems like a playcalling problem.But I agree that this is mostly scapegoating.
BoltzNBrew
Footballguy
James looked more he'd rather hit the breaks and dance around rather than put his head down and hit someone. The play calling in the 2nd half had a striking resemblence to the horrible SD play calling in the 2nd half of the SD@BAL game.
kutta
Footballguy
After the KC game, Green was on the radio saying something like, "When we are up by that much, all we have to do is 'grind the ball' and we should get a win." That is the problem, and it was the problem in this game. We let the Bears hang around because we went into the fetal position and stopped moving the ball and stopped scoring. We didn't go for TD's; we were content with FG's. The exact same thing happened against KC, and I blame the coaches for that. If you don't instill the "kick them when they're down and kick them again and again" mentality, you will always leave yourself open to craziness in the fourth quarter. We should have been seeing the reserves play in the fourth quarter, instead of a Bears win. The players screwed up, but the coaches put the team in the position where screwups cost us the game.
CalBear
Footballguy
Yeah, too bad they don't have Frank Gore back there...oh, wait.
The Cards stopped getting first downs when they tried to run the ball to eat the clock in the second half. I'm not sure how much involvement Green had in the play selections, but man oh man. It doesn't take a Billick to figure out what is working and what is not.
Leinart looked very comfortable passing the ball. Go with what you have, and stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Leinart looked very comfortable passing the ball. Go with what you have, and stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Knightro
Footballguy
Kruzcek going to OC isn't going to help the running game. As a UCF fan, I have seen Kruzcek's offense for many years and it is a run last offense where a lot of the runs come out of shotgun. Bump up Bolding, Johnson, and Fitz once he's back because the run/pass splits are going to favor the pass even more now.
PahtyTom
Footballguy
Between the even higher amount of attempts I expect now, and the talent, I think this is going to be a top 3 fantasy passing game the rest of the way with or without Fitzgerald.
SickThing
Footballguy
Of course if you bump up all WRs, you must bump up the QB too. -Leinart owner
kevjones22
Footballguy
Playcalling at the end of the first half was just as bad as the end. They had the ball deep in Bears territory three times in a row off turnovers and ran simple draws over and over resulting in 6 points. Had they scored it certainly would have put the Bears away.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
That's a very interesting read Chase but I think kevjones22 makes a good point and he might have got the ax for the teams offensive play calling in the first half rather than the second;GROSSMAN 1st INT
1-10-CHI25 (2:26) E.James left tackle to CHI 23 for 2 yards (L.Briggs, A.Boone).
2-8-CHI23 (1:45) E.James left tackle to CHI 26 for -3 yards (M.Brown, L.Briggs).
3-11-CHI26 (1:02) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass short middle to A.Boldin for 26 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
N.Rackers extra point is GOOD, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.
CHI 0 ARI 14, Plays: 3 Yards: 25 Possession: 1:32.
Conservative, but Leinart is able to convert on his one attempt 3rd and long. Get out of this kids way.
GROSSMAN 2nd INT
1-10-CHI29 (13:00) PENALTY on ARZ-C.Liwienski, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 29 - No Play.
1-15-CHI34 (12:59) E.James up the middle to CHI 32 for 2 yards (T.Harris, B.Urlacher).
2-13-CHI32 (12:15) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on ARZ-R.Wells, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 32 - No Play.
2-18-CHI37 (12:05) E.James left tackle to CHI 34 for 3 yards (A.Brown).
3-15-CHI34 (11:27) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass incomplete deep left to A.Boldin.
4-15-CHI34 (11:21) N.Rackers 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.
Conservative and too many penalties. You get the ball on the 29 with all the momentum in the world... and you end up going BACKWARDS 5 yards forcing a 52yrd FG by Rackers???? The only pass was on 3rd and 15 despite the fact Leinart had a hot hand, CHI secondary reeling and James only contributions of the night was pass blocking. Just awful playcalling combined with even poore execution.
GROSSMAN 1st FUM LOST
1-10-CHI33 (8:05) E.James right end to CHI 30 for 3 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, B.Urlacher).
2-7-CHI30 (7:24) E.James right end to CHI 30 for no gain (L.Briggs).
3-7-CHI30 (6:45) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass short left to J.Arrington to CHI 18 for 12 yards (B.Urlacher, M.Brown).
1-10-CHI18 (6:04) E.James left tackle to CHI 14 for 4 yards (L.Briggs).
2-6-CHI14 (5:29) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for 1 yard (L.Briggs, C.Tillman).
3-5-CHI13 (4:50) E.James left end to CHI 11 for 2 yards (L.Briggs, M.Brown).
PENALTY on ARZ-A.Boldin, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 13 - No Play.
3-15-CHI23 (4:25) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass incomplete short middle to C.Holiday.
4-15-CHI23 (4:25) N.Rackers 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.
CHI 0 ARI 17, Plays: 7 Yards: 10 Possession: 3:50.
Again, Leinart comes through when the down/distance is managable but the playcalling and execution is so putrid they get a gift on the CHI 33 and can only muster 10 yards despite the fact they actually made a first down(thanks to Leinart).
GROSSMAN 2nd FUM LOST
1-10-CHI32 (2:10) M.Leinart pass short right to A.Boldin to CHI 13 for 19 yards (C.Tillman).
1-10-CHI13 (2:00) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for no gain (I.Idonije, L.Briggs).
2-10-CHI13 (1:19) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for no gain (L.Briggs, C.Tillman).
3-10-CHI13
46) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass short middle to O.Ayanbadejo to CHI 10 for 3 yards (L.Briggs).4-7-CHI10
02) N.Rackers 28 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.CHI 0 ARI 20, Plays: 5 Yards: 22 Possession: 2:10.
Surprise, surprise they don't wait for 3rd and long before allowing Leinart to pass and right off the bat he connects for 19 yards and gets ARZ down to the 13.... then go back to the turtle.
So all in all that was 13 points and some would say at least they scored one touchdown against a very good defense. But I think they are missing the point. Leinart was firing on all cylinders and James was getting stuffed repeatedly. ARZ isn't being conservative back around their own 30 yard line, afraid to make a mistake and give CHI easy opportunities. ARZ was taking over at the CHI 25, 29, 33 and 32 yard lines. That's FG range right there, that's the time to take your shots. Especially with all the momentum in that building at the time. IMO you have to come away from that situation with a minimum of 16 points(1 TD/3 FG) but if they would have let Leinart loose there's a good chance they could have gotten 20 points. Even if they only get 16 points in that situation we're all applauding ARZ for a great victory. That's what Barkley was eluding too, if your opponent is giving you back-to-back-to-back-to-back opportunities near the redzone you can't settle for FG's. 1st and 10 on your opponents 25, 29, 33 and 32 should result in more than 13 points.
I dunno how much was Denny's playcalling and how much was the OC but from the bit you quoted it appears the play calling in the second half were quite a bid different than the play calling in the first half. The difference was the starting field position by ARZ in the second half. When/If Leinart had incompletions they couldn't just kick FG's like they could have in the first half, they had to punt.
The Ref
Footballguy
The Cardinals should go back and have a look at the Patriots game film from 2001.
If you recall, the 01 Pats coudn't run the ball that well, and had an o-line that was more suited for pass protection then runing the ball. To counter this, the Pats called a lot of short pass plays and quick dump offs to the RB and WR.
When I was watching the first quarter of the Bears/Zona game and the red birds used several short passes to cut up the bears D I thought the Bears might be in trouble. But for whatever reason the Cardinals called off the dogs and got away from the short passes on first and second down after the 2Q. The rest as they say is history.
As a Boldin and Johnson owner I hope they use short passes as a subsitute for the running game starting this week.
If you recall, the 01 Pats coudn't run the ball that well, and had an o-line that was more suited for pass protection then runing the ball. To counter this, the Pats called a lot of short pass plays and quick dump offs to the RB and WR.
When I was watching the first quarter of the Bears/Zona game and the red birds used several short passes to cut up the bears D I thought the Bears might be in trouble. But for whatever reason the Cardinals called off the dogs and got away from the short passes on first and second down after the 2Q. The rest as they say is history.
As a Boldin and Johnson owner I hope they use short passes as a subsitute for the running game starting this week.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
These things wouldn't be an issue if they had kept up the pressure in the first half. 10 points off 4 turnovers in the first half, all of which were in Bears territory is weak. True Rackers missed one but on that drive and the following ones they weren't going for the kill. They stopped doing what was working and obstinately stuck to something that wasn't. Running Edge after he ceased to be effective twice up the middle inside the 10 and getting stuffed for a field goal was the death knell. When you have the upper hand on a quality team like the Bears you step on their neck and don't give them a chance to breathe. 36 for 55 yds and yet they continued to use it when they needed desperately every yard they could grab. Leinart was hot and cooled off becaue the playcalling stopped giving him the opportunities. I agree that Green is throwing someone under the bus to save his own ###, but the lack of killer instinct comes from the top. The OC didn't have it because Green doesn't have it.
renesauz
IBL Representative
I'm not sure I have ever seen a team able to pass block so well against sucha fierce defense, yet be so utterly useless in run-blocking.
When I saw Green's rant, I actually was angry at him FOR THE PLAYERS. They didn't deserve his anger...whoever was calling the offensive plays did. Three and out's are not now, nor have ever been, an effective clock-killing technique. When you aren't willing to pass until third and 9, you're helping your oponent far more then yourself.
Screens, dump-offs, PLAY-ACTION...those are the plays that will gain first downs when you can't run the ball.
Somebody deserved to lose their job for that performance...and I'm not talking about the guys in pads.
When I saw Green's rant, I actually was angry at him FOR THE PLAYERS. They didn't deserve his anger...whoever was calling the offensive plays did. Three and out's are not now, nor have ever been, an effective clock-killing technique. When you aren't willing to pass until third and 9, you're helping your oponent far more then yourself.
Screens, dump-offs, PLAY-ACTION...those are the plays that will gain first downs when you can't run the ball.
Somebody deserved to lose their job for that performance...and I'm not talking about the guys in pads.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
That's a very interesting read Chase but I think kevjones22 makes a good point and he might have got the ax for the teams offensive play calling in the first half rather than the second;GROSSMAN 1st INT
1-10-CHI25 (2:26) E.James left tackle to CHI 23 for 2 yards (L.Briggs, A.Boone).
2-8-CHI23 (1:45) E.James left tackle to CHI 26 for -3 yards (M.Brown, L.Briggs).
3-11-CHI26 (1:02) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass short middle to A.Boldin for 26 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
N.Rackers extra point is GOOD, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.
CHI 0 ARI 14, Plays: 3 Yards: 25 Possession: 1:32.
Conservative, but Leinart is able to convert on his one attempt 3rd and long. Get out of this kids way.
GROSSMAN 2nd INT
1-10-CHI29 (13:00) PENALTY on ARZ-C.Liwienski, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 29 - No Play.
1-15-CHI34 (12:59) E.James up the middle to CHI 32 for 2 yards (T.Harris, B.Urlacher).
2-13-CHI32 (12:15) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on ARZ-R.Wells, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 32 - No Play.
2-18-CHI37 (12:05) E.James left tackle to CHI 34 for 3 yards (A.Brown).
3-15-CHI34 (11:27) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass incomplete deep left to A.Boldin.
4-15-CHI34 (11:21) N.Rackers 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.
Conservative and too many penalties. You get the ball on the 29 with all the momentum in the world... and you end up going BACKWARDS 5 yards forcing a 52yrd FG by Rackers???? The only pass was on 3rd and 15 despite the fact Leinart had a hot hand, CHI secondary reeling and James only contributions of the night was pass blocking. Just awful playcalling combined with even poore execution.
GROSSMAN 1st FUM LOST
1-10-CHI33 (8:05) E.James right end to CHI 30 for 3 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, B.Urlacher).
2-7-CHI30 (7:24) E.James right end to CHI 30 for no gain (L.Briggs).
3-7-CHI30 (6:45) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass short left to J.Arrington to CHI 18 for 12 yards (B.Urlacher, M.Brown).
1-10-CHI18 (6:04) E.James left tackle to CHI 14 for 4 yards (L.Briggs).
2-6-CHI14 (5:29) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for 1 yard (L.Briggs, C.Tillman).
3-5-CHI13 (4:50) E.James left end to CHI 11 for 2 yards (L.Briggs, M.Brown).
PENALTY on ARZ-A.Boldin, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 13 - No Play.
3-15-CHI23 (4:25) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass incomplete short middle to C.Holiday.
4-15-CHI23 (4:25) N.Rackers 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-N.Hodel, Holder-S.Player.
CHI 0 ARI 17, Plays: 7 Yards: 10 Possession: 3:50.
Again, Leinart comes through when the down/distance is managable but the playcalling and execution is so putrid they get a gift on the CHI 33 and can only muster 10 yards despite the fact they actually made a first down(thanks to Leinart).
GROSSMAN 2nd FUM LOST
1-10-CHI32 (2:10) M.Leinart pass short right to A.Boldin to CHI 13 for 19 yards (C.Tillman).
1-10-CHI13 (2:00) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for no gain (I.Idonije, L.Briggs).
2-10-CHI13 (1:19) E.James up the middle to CHI 13 for no gain (L.Briggs, C.Tillman).
3-10-CHI13
4-7-CHI10
CHI 0 ARI 20, Plays: 5 Yards: 22 Possession: 2:10.
Surprise, surprise they don't wait for 3rd and long before allowing Leinart to pass and right off the bat he connects for 19 yards and gets ARZ down to the 13.... then go back to the turtle.
So all in all that was 13 points and some would say at least they scored one touchdown against a very good defense. But I think they are missing the point. Leinart was firing on all cylinders and James was getting stuffed repeatedly. ARZ isn't being conservative back around their own 30 yard line, afraid to make a mistake and give CHI easy opportunities. ARZ was taking over at the CHI 25, 29, 33 and 32 yard lines. That's FG range right there, that's the time to take your shots. Especially with all the momentum in that building at the time. IMO you have to come away from that situation with a minimum of 16 points(1 TD/3 FG) but if they would have let Leinart loose there's a good chance they could have gotten 20 points. Even if they only get 16 points in that situation we're all applauding ARZ for a great victory. That's what Barkley was eluding too, if your opponent is giving you back-to-back-to-back-to-back opportunities near the redzone you can't settle for FG's. 1st and 10 on your opponents 25, 29, 33 and 32 should result in more than 13 points.
I dunno how much was Denny's playcalling and how much was the OC but from the bit you quoted it appears the play calling in the second half were quite a bid different than the play calling in the first half. The difference was the starting field position by ARZ in the second half. When/If Leinart had incompletions they couldn't just kick FG's like they could have in the first half, they had to punt.
He said it a lot better than I did. Guess I should read them all before I respond.
Knightro
Footballguy
That is exactly what you're going to see. The Bubble Screen was a favorite play of Kruczek's while he was here at UCF to the point where I think it was the first or second play we ran in every @#$@#$ game we played. It was a running joke with the fans on when the play was coming. He is fond of going 4 wide in the shotgun with the RB getting a lot of sprint draws and trap plays. Given how crappy this team has been with run blocking, they have to try something else as the current plan just isn't working.
