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FBG MD - Diagnose my knee issue (1 Viewer)

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
Obviously I need to go to an orthopedic but I’m hoping for some relief from my worry that I might need surgery….

Here are the symptoms:

Left knee
Minimal pain at interior side of knee when I bend the knee all the way
Feels lightly swollen (inside) but not visible
95% full range of motion

Hoping it’s just a sprain but it’s been like this for about two weeks now. To be fair I have not limited my walking or running.
 
My random guess with no medical training would be strained or sprained MCL. Sprained knees can take several weeks to heal even with taking it easy. It sounds Ike you haven’t been really taking it easy on the knee.
 
I don't think they'll do surgery on a middle-aged dude with minimal pain, slight inflammation and almost complete range of motion.
When I had my meniscus surgery after waiting a few years, my doc said I shouldn’t have waited. Yes it’s minor, but he said it could lead to worse arthritis because of the wear and tear and I’d be worse in the long run for waiting. It’s a very simple procedure..had mine done at noon and was coaching baseball by 7pm.
 
I don't think they'll do surgery on a middle-aged dude with minimal pain, slight inflammation and almost complete range of motion.
They won’t, or more accurately, shouldn’t, as there is no difference in outcomes/functionality between surgical and conservative management (rest, analgesics, physical therapy) of degenerative meniscal tears.

There are other diagnostic considerations, but they are all managed the same way, more or less. He should lay off running for a while, keep it elevated, apply a compressive dressing/sleeve, take Tylenol or ibuprofen for pain (+/- ice, falling out of favor), and get referred for PT.
 
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I’d definitely see an orthopedic doc and get an MRI. I had similar symptoms a few years back and it turned out to be a stress fracture. Doc said it could have been very bad undiagnosed and had I kept pushing on it.
 
It seems counterintuitive, but both times I’ve developed what felt like tendinitis on the inside of the knee (once from running and once from weight training) the resolution was to really focus on exercises to strengthen my quads.

Running in particular develops your hamstrings out of proportion to your quads and the imbalance can stress that tendon. Stretching and resting don’t really help in that situation. At least not long term. Maybe try some aggressive quad exercises like (exercise band assisted) Nordic curls or sissy squats.
 
It seems counterintuitive, but both times I’ve developed what felt like tendinitis on the inside of the knee (once from running and once from weight training) the resolution was to really focus on exercises to strengthen my quads.

Running in particular develops your hamstrings out of proportion to your quads and the imbalance can stress that tendon. Stretching and resting don’t really help in that situation. At least not long term. Maybe try some aggressive quad exercises like (exercise band assisted) Nordic curls or sissy squats.
I just went through 8 weeks of PT for this exact situation. Spot on - PT put me through quad strengthening, IT band, hip flexor/hamstring/quad flexibility exercises, etc.

Edit to add: I’m not 100% pain free, but am back to running and playing basketball without significant discomfort.
 
I had similar about 5 years ago. Felt exactly like a very tiny meniscus tear I had 15 years earlier.

Wound up being a insufficiency fracture. A blood vessel wasn't delivering blood to a small section of my knee.

Only cure was zero weight on it for two months. Sucked to be in a wheel chair all that time.

It was great to catch it early. No long term damage.
 
Is pain just below joint or definitely in the joint?.....the reason I ask is there's a bursa sac where tendons come together that can be aggravated. It's called the pes anserine.

I hurt the medial part of my knee over a year ago. I thought maybe an mcl sprain or injured meniscus. It ended up being pes anserine bursitis......ice, ibuprofen, no running, and KT tape have helped. There are other bursa sacs around knee joint as well. You really need to have a medical professional assess your knee. Physical therapists can do tests to diagnose or rule things out. For imaging your doc would order x rays, and then maybe an MRI.....MRI would show the meniscus and other soft tissue.
 
It seems counterintuitive, but both times I’ve developed what felt like tendinitis on the inside of the knee (once from running and once from weight training) the resolution was to really focus on exercises to strengthen my quads.

Running in particular develops your hamstrings out of proportion to your quads and the imbalance can stress that tendon. Stretching and resting don’t really help in that situation. At least not long term. Maybe try some aggressive quad exercises like (exercise band assisted) Nordic curls or sissy squats.
This is kind of where I'm at I think.....I've pretty much quit running and I've been focusing on strengthening my knee joint.....seems to be working, but I had an inflammation cycle for quite some time.
 
It seems counterintuitive, but both times I’ve developed what felt like tendinitis on the inside of the knee (once from running and once from weight training) the resolution was to really focus on exercises to strengthen my quads.

Running in particular develops your hamstrings out of proportion to your quads and the imbalance can stress that tendon. Stretching and resting don’t really help in that situation. At least not long term. Maybe try some aggressive quad exercises like (exercise band assisted) Nordic curls or sissy squats.
This is good advice, especially if it is patellofemoral syndrome (though pain usually in front/below knee cap), and will be relayed by the physical therapist, if appropriate.

From his description, it doesn't sound like advanced imagery (eg. MRI) or orthopedics referral are necessary. Any primary care provider can refer to PT.

That other stuff can be pursued if/when conservative measures fail. But he'll probably get better, if it's any of the likely culprits.
 
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(+/- ice, falling out of favor)

This is interesting to me.

I have strange, recurring bouts of left-knee stiffness (can bend with considerable effort, but 7-out-of-10 painful). The bouts occur about once or twice per year on average, typically separated by a several months (haven't had a bout since summer 2022, though <knock-knock>).

Anyway. The first time I had one (spring 2017), I tried OTC pain relievers and gutting it out. Three days in, I wasn't getting any real relief ... a little less pain making the condition easier to tolerate, but no increase in ease-of-movement. I'm a cheap dummy, so I never went to a doctor about it. What I did do was start icing the knee a every few hours -- a good four or five 20-minute sessions per day with some blocks of food-packing ice wrapped in old T-shirts, moving the ice around as needed (icing at multiple angles helps). During the icing, my knee is "elevated", I guess, up on an ottoman -- but not above heart level (like, I'm not laying on a couch with my leg propped up).

Consistent icing gets my knee back in working order within a day or so, with improving symptoms the whole time through (I felt progressively better and got more motion back with each round of icing).

Still don't know for sure what the underlying condition is. I often say that "my left knee is hamburger" -- what I mean is that it's not as solid and sturdy as it was when I was a young man. A few times a week, I'll take a step and the left knee won't lock, causing me to wobble through that step but not fall (yet, but I can see potential falls over the horizon). The next step I take, that same knee will lock fine and not trouble me again for a day or three.
 
(+/- ice, falling out of favor)

This is interesting to me.

I have strange, recurring bouts of left-knee stiffness (can bend with considerable effort, but 7-out-of-10 painful). The bouts occur about once or twice per year on average, typically separated by a several months (haven't had a bout since summer 2022, though <knock-knock>).

Anyway. The first time I had one (spring 2017), I tried OTC pain relievers and gutting it out. Three days in, I wasn't getting any real relief ... a little less pain making the condition easier to tolerate, but no increase in ease-of-movement. I'm a cheap dummy, so I never went to a doctor about it. What I did do was start icing the knee a every few hours -- a good four or five 20-minute sessions per day with some blocks of food-packing ice wrapped in old T-shirts, moving the ice around as needed (icing at multiple angles helps). During the icing, my knee is "elevated", I guess, up on an ottoman -- but not above heart level (like, I'm not laying on a couch with my leg propped up).

Consistent icing gets my knee back in working order within a day or so, with improving symptoms the whole time through (I felt progressively better and got more motion back with each round of icing).

Still don't know for sure what the underlying condition is. I often say that "my left knee is hamburger" -- what I mean is that it's not as solid and sturdy as it was when I was a young man. A few times a week, I'll take a step and the left knee won't lock, causing me to wobble through that step but not fall (yet, but I can see potential falls over the horizon). The next step I take, that same knee will lock fine and not trouble me again for a day or three.
That definitely sounds like a partial ligament or meniscus tear. It’s gotten better because you’ve healed and/or adapted to avoid provoking behavior (consciously, or not).

Ice is part of the RICE acronym for acute sports injuries - rest, ice, compression and elevation. The original acronym wasn’t evidence-based, however, and subsequent literature has shown prolonged rest can be deleterious, and icing may re tard healing. One contemporary acronym that’s been suggested is PEACE and LOVE

Immediately after injury, do no harm and let PEACE guide your approach.​

P for protect​

Unload or restrict movement for 1–3 days to minimise bleeding, prevent distension of injured fibres and reduce the risk of aggravating the injury. Rest should be minimised as prolonged rest can compromise tissue strength and quality.1 Pain signals should guide the cessation of protection.

E for elevate​

Elevate the limb higher than the heart to promote interstitial fluid flow out of tissues. Despite weak evidence supporting its use, elevation shows a low risk-to-benefit ratio.

A for avoid anti-inflammatory modalities​

The various phases of inflammation help repair damaged soft tissues. Thus, inhibiting inflammation using medications may negatively affect long-term tissue healing, especially when higher dosages are used.2Standard of care for soft-tissue injuries should not include anti-inflammatory medications.
We also question the use of cryotherapy. Despite widespread use among clinicians and the population, there is no high-quality evidence on the efficacy of ice for treating soft-tissue injuries.2 Even if mostly analgesic, ice could potentially disrupt inflammation, angiogenesis and revascularisation, delay neutrophil and macrophage infiltration as well as increase immature myofibres.3 This may lead to impaired tissue repair and redundant collagen synthesis.3

C for compress​

External mechanical pressure using taping or bandages helps limit intra-articular oedema and tissue haemorrhage.2 4 Despite conflicting studies,2 compression after an ankle sprain seems to reduce swelling and improve quality of life.4

E for educate​

Therapists should educate patients on the benefits of an active approach to recovery. Passive modalities, such as electrotherapy, manual therapy or acupuncture, early after injury have insignificant effects on pain and function compared with an active approach,2 and may even be counterproductive in the long term. Indeed, nurturing an external locus of control or the ‘need to be fixed’ can lead to therapy-dependent behaviour. Better education on the condition and load management will help avoid overtreatment. This in turn reduces the likelihood of unnecessary injections or surgery, and supports a reduction in the cost of healthcare (eg, due to disability compensation associated with low back pain).5 In an era of hi-tech therapeutic options, we strongly advocate for setting realistic expectations with patients about recovery times instead of chasing the ‘magic cure’ approach.

After the first days have passed, soft tissues need LOVE.​

L for load​

An active approach with movement and exercise benefits most patients with musculoskeletal disorders.2 6Mechanical stress should be added early and normal activities resumed as soon as symptoms allow. Optimal loading1 without exacerbating pain promotes repair, remodelling and builds tissue tolerance and the capacity of tendons, muscles and ligaments through mechanotransduction.6

O for optimism​

Optimistic patient expectations are associated with better outcomes and prognosis. Psychological factors such as catastrophisation, depression and fear can represent barriers to recovery. Beliefs and emotions are thought to explain more of the variation in symptoms following an ankle sprain than the degree of pathophysiology.7

V for vascularisation​

Cardiovascular activity represents a cornerstone in the management of musculoskeletal injuries. While research is needed on dosage, pain-free aerobic exercise should be started a few days after injury to boost motivation and increase blood flow to the injured structures. Early mobilisation and aerobic exercise improve physical function, supporting return to work and reduce the need for pain medication in individuals with musculoskeletal conditions.8

E for exercise​

There is a strong level of evidence supporting the use of exercise for the treatment of ankle sprains and for reducing the prevalence of recurrent injuries.2 Exercises help to restore mobility, strength and proprioception early after injury.2 Pain should be avoided to ensure optimal repair during the subacute phase of recovery, and should be used as a guide for exercise progressions.
Managing soft-tissue injuries is more than short-term damage control. Similar to other injuries, clinicians should aim for favourable long-term outcomes and treat the person with the injury rather than the injury of the person. Whether they are dealing with an ankle sprain or a hamstring strain, we hope this editorial will encourage clinicians to give PEACE a chance, because perhaps all soft-tissue injuries need is LOVE.
This isn’t exactly hard science though. You‘ll also note anti-inflammatory medications aren’t recommended, which is why I mentioned Tylenol before ibuprofen - the former is almost entirely analgesic. Yet rheumatology guidelines still recognize a place for NSAIDs like ibuprofen. I forgot to mention topical Voltaren (an NSAID gel) as a good choice for pain, with less chance for systemic toxicity.

All that said, your injury is now chronic, so inflammation isn’t playing much role in symptoms. If ice helps, I’d continue using it.
 
Note to self: Do not ask the FBGs for medical help or advice.
This thread seems more promising than my experience exhausting medical practitioners trying to solve my own knee issue (something popped, burning pain). 6 months later I feel like I’m developing a stress fracture in my tibia with each step - after doctors yawned and pooh poohed my “healthy” knee.
 
Obviously I need to go to an orthopedic but I’m hoping for some relief from my worry that I might need surgery….

Here are the symptoms:

Left knee
Minimal pain at interior side of knee when I bend the knee all the way
Feels lightly swollen (inside) but not visible
95% full range of motion

Hoping it’s just a sprain but it’s been like this for about two weeks now. To be fair I have not limited my walking or running.

I think it's called getting old
 
Obviously I need to go to an orthopedic but I’m hoping for some relief from my worry that I might need surgery….

Here are the symptoms:

Left knee
Minimal pain at interior side of knee when I bend the knee all the way
Feels lightly swollen (inside) but not visible
95% full range of motion

Hoping it’s just a sprain but it’s been like this for about two weeks now. To be fair I have not limited my walking or running.
Did i miss where you mentioned how you hurt your leg?
 
Obviously I need to go to an orthopedic but I’m hoping for some relief from my worry that I might need surgery….

Here are the symptoms:

Left knee
Minimal pain at interior side of knee when I bend the knee all the way
Feels lightly swollen (inside) but not visible
95% full range of motion

Hoping it’s just a sprain but it’s been like this for about two weeks now. To be fair I have not limited my walking or running.
Did i miss where you mentioned how you hurt your leg?
Note to self: Do not ask the FBGs for medical help or advice.
This thread seems more promising than my experience exhausting medical practitioners trying to solve my own knee issue (something popped, burning pain). 6 months later I feel like I’m developing a stress fracture in my tibia with each step - after doctors yawned and pooh poohed my “healthy” knee.

They
Is pain just below joint or definitely in the joint?.....the reason I ask is there's a bursa sac where tendons come together that can be aggravated. It's called the pes anserine.

I hurt the medial part of my knee over a year ago. I thought maybe an mcl sprain or injured meniscus. It ended up being pes anserine bursitis......ice, ibuprofen, no running, and KT tape have helped. There are other bursa sacs around knee joint as well. You really need to have a medical professional assess your knee. Physical therapists can do tests to diagnose or rule things out. For imaging your doc would order x rays, and then maybe an MRI.....MRI would show the meniscus and other soft tissue.

I hurt the front knee bursa sac last year and that was a *****. Took like 3 weeks to heal.
 
Obviously I need to go to an orthopedic but I’m hoping for some relief from my worry that I might need surgery….

Here are the symptoms:

Left knee
Minimal pain at interior side of knee when I bend the knee all the way
Feels lightly swollen (inside) but not visible
95% full range of motion

Hoping it’s just a sprain but it’s been like this for about two weeks now. To be fair I have not limited my walking or running.
Did i miss where you mentioned how you hurt your leg?

Could be anything but most likely basketball. I think it was the last play of the last game I played.
 
Obviously I need to go to an orthopedic but I’m hoping for some relief from my worry that I might need surgery….

Here are the symptoms:

Left knee
Minimal pain at interior side of knee when I bend the knee all the way
Feels lightly swollen (inside) but not visible
95% full range of motion

Hoping it’s just a sprain but it’s been like this for about two weeks now. To be fair I have not limited my walking or running.
Did i miss where you mentioned how you hurt your leg?

Could be anything but most likely basketball. I think it was the last play of the last game I played.
If it wasnt a certain moment of severe sharp pain and if its not really that swollen , im guessing its either a re-aggravation of an older injury or its just normal over doing it pain.
If it was serious you would know , weekend warriors are always dinged up.
 

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