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FBGs vs Kasparov- chess game- Draw agreed to (1 Viewer)

Wilk said:
A whole bunch of people not as good as you. Well played, sir.

I have bunch of questions, but my first one is whether we blundered somewhere in the end game and missed an opportunity you were worried about?
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To expand on this: No, I don't think you guys blundered anywhere in the endgame. You played well enough that if I made a mistake, it would've been over for me quickly. That's a smart way to play: force your opponent into a bad decision. I pushed my d pawn down the board just to create some counter threats and that turned out to be enough.

 
Kasparov said:
There were a few moments I thought you guys kept me in it, I thought 52. ...Kd7 was odd (instead of f6) but you reloaded and played f6 two moves later. 58. Be7 made sense but you might want to look at Kc8 there, freeing up the c7 square for the Bishop (to defend f4 later) and there might be options around move 69 but I'd have to look at my notes. In the endgame I felt it was more ME not playing absolutely accurately (which the position required) allowing you to continue with some winning chances. I can post my full analysis later, I'm still a bit overwhelmed at this thread! It's going to take me a few hours just to read it all! Plus everything looks different in here, I'm getting hit with notifications, messages, etc. Was I in a time capsule??
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Awesome that

1.  You have notes

2.  You plan to post a full analysis - no one expects you to do such a thing, but reading it would be amazing

3.  You plan to read the whole thread - no one expects you to threaten your own continued viability as a functioning human being by doing so

And while we all understood that you would not read this thread during the game, it never occurred to me how infrequently you visit the *entire* vast suzerainty of FBG forums.  Oof, the board "upgrade" is just hitting you now??   GLLLLLL

Thanks a million for doing this.   

 
I'll post the lichess analysis as soon as I can ####### figure out where tim messed up notation somewhere.

Good time to pimp my twitch channel where we learn chess together AND play piano too ;)

www.twitch.tv/coolchessdude

 
John Bender said:
I'll post the lichess analysis as soon as I can ####### figure out where tim messed up notation somewhere.

Good time to pimp my twitch channel where we learn chess together AND play piano too ;)

www.twitch.tv/coolchessdude
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Could it be the comma on line 73 instead of a period (73,)?

 
Wilk said:
This is really cool.  So move 70 was the only "mistake" of the game? We should have capitalized but didn't?
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To me, there was no way to capitalize and win but it was a mistake nonetheless.  A mistake can be made and not swing the game one way or the other - it's all relative.   You guys played every single computer top suggested move from that point on through the rest of the game and we still drew it.  It was KAspy vs Stockfish 7 for most of the match. 

 
rick6668 said:
Thanks for posting this!  Really cool!
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Absolutely

For the guys following along that are only kinda into chess, I STRONGLY suggest you sign up at lichess and start playing at your level.  The website has more tools to help you learn than you could imagine.  It's free, it's quick to sign up.

If you have any questions - post em here, in the usual chess thread or PM me.

 
John Bender said:
To me, there was no way to capitalize and win but it was a mistake nonetheless.  A mistake can be made and not swing the game one way or the other - it's all relative.   You guys played every single computer top suggested move from that point on through the rest of the game and we still drew it.  It was KAspy vs Stockfish 7 for most of the match. 
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Thanks again for posting it.

But with regards to the bolded, there's no way we could have played every computer suggested move, because we backtracked twice. Are you suggesting that the computer backtracked? 

 
timschochet said:
Thanks again for posting it.

But with regards to the bolded, there's no way we could have played every computer suggested move, because we backtracked twice. Are you suggesting that the computer backtracked? 
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Backtracking by the computer isn't some anomaly in a drawn position

 
There were probably lots of things we could've done differently, but here's a key moment towards the end of the game:

After 75. Kh3 we had two options we were looking at, Rh7+ and Re3+. Rh7+ was simple: White has to play Kg2, because Kg4 is a trap move. (Bh4 wins). Re3 is complicated. But I thought I saw something there. In any case, we went for the simpler Rh7+ hoping Kaspy would make an error. He didn't. I'm wondering if we should have gone with Re3+? 

 
I also still wonder a couple of moves before if we should have avoided taking the pawn on d7. That got his king into play. Was there a better move?

Oh well, not going to drive myself crazy over this stuff. 

Yes I am. 

 
timschochet said:
There were probably lots of things we could've done differently, but here's a key moment towards the end of the game:

After 75. Kh3 we had two options we were looking at, Rh7+ and Re3+. Rh7+ was simple: White has to play Kg2, because Kg4 is a trap move. (Bh4 wins). Re3 is complicated. But I thought I saw something there. In any case, we went for the simpler Rh7+ hoping Kaspy would make an error. He didn't. I'm wondering if we should have gone with Re3+? 
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definitely.  And I appreciate you taking my advice on my line on move 65.  I know I was here in dribs and drabs but I worked hard on that and I was being very hard headed about it.  But I liked it a lot.  Glad I didn't cost us the win :)
Unfortunately, my work and schedule otherwise just doesn't afford me a lot of time to check in here and keep up during week days. Sorry about that.  I know you were relying on a few of the top guys from the tournies we play. You did a great job and I really appreciate it.

 
John Bender said:
To me, there was no way to capitalize and win but it was a mistake nonetheless.  A mistake can be made and not swing the game one way or the other - it's all relative.   You guys played every single computer top suggested move from that point on through the rest of the game and we still drew it.  It was KAspy vs Stockfish 7 for most of the match.
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So given the position at the time prior to each turn, it was pretty much a draw the whole way through and neither side ever had a winning position, right?

So we while we may not have made a killer move, we never did miss something.  I feel pretty proud of us.

 
Wilk said:
So given the position at the time prior to each turn, it was pretty much a draw the whole way through and neither side ever had a winning position, right?

So we while we may not have made a killer move, we never did miss something.  I feel pretty proud of us.
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 Most highly trained players could look at that board around move 60 and say "thats a draw".  I'm not a master by any means, but whether a side is up a pawn or a piece, there are just some compositions that are draws.  In that instance, you had pawns in the center, not on the outside.  Pawns on the outside of the board around move 65 might have been better.  You had equal material.  You had Kaspy with good king position.  You had same color bishops.  Obviously you'd need to run a computer to see for sure, but it was a draw if I had ever seen a draw before to me given the opponent.  If you're playing vs. a player ranked 2000 or below, I'd say play it out though.  In a layman game, that rarely ends as a draw...someone will blunder something.  But vs Kaspy and the moves that you guys were pumping in (I mean look, we didn't make one single mistake  We had a centipawn loss of 7.  I joke when I say Kaspy played stockfish 7, but it probably wasn't far from the truth given the breakdown), it was a draw.

 
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Wilk said:
So given the position at the time prior to each turn, it was pretty much a draw the whole way through and neither side ever had a winning position, right?

So we while we may not have made a killer move, we never did miss something.  I feel pretty proud of us.
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In retrospect, given that we crowd sourced things together, I guess it's fairly predictable in retrospect that such a format would result in us both not making a wild move as well as also not missing anything fairly obvious.

 
timschochet said:
There were probably lots of things we could've done differently, but here's a key moment towards the end of the game:

After 75. Kh3 we had two options we were looking at, Rh7+ and Re3+. Rh7+ was simple: White has to play Kg2, because Kg4 is a trap move. (Bh4 wins). Re3 is complicated. But I thought I saw something there. In any case, we went for the simpler Rh7+ hoping Kaspy would make an error. He didn't. I'm wondering if we should have gone with Re3+? 
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Tim, you mean Rd3+, yes? I gather this is a thing with you re: notation?! Just kidding. If 75. ...Rd3+ then I CAN play Kg4. If 76. ...Bh6 (any other B move and I just take the f pawn) 77. Re4 and I think I can hold that. Super busy with work this afternoon but I'll try to post some analysis soon. And possibly explain the Lichess evaluations.

 
Also should note: I don't mean to talk on and on here about "this is a draw" and it was soooo easy to see.  SBob, Pickles (outside of Kaspy) are the pros on this board. Though I spend 8 or 9 hours a week on chess, I'm not on their level so really it's just my educated opinion at this point.  

 
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John Bender said:
definitely.  And I appreciate you taking my advice on my line on move 65.  I know I was here in dribs and drabs but I worked hard on that and I was being very hard headed about it.  But I liked it a lot.  Glad I didn't cost us the win :)
Unfortunately, my work and schedule otherwise just doesn't afford me a lot of time to check in here and keep up during week days. Sorry about that.  I know you were relying on a few of the top guys from the tournies we play. You did a great job and I really appreciate it.
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This was a turning point for me that gave me false hope of a win.  I was buried in looking how to protect our king and keep his D pawn from getting home with a bunch of defensive moves.  This turned us back onto the offensive.  I wouldn't have seen this at all, and it probably would have cost me the game if playing on my own.

 
John Bender said:
 Most highly trained players could look at that board around move 60 and say "thats a draw".  I'm not a master by any means, but whether a side is up a pawn or a piece, there are just some compositions that are draws.  In that instance, you had pawns in the center, not on the outside.  Pawns on the outside of the board around move 65 might have been better.  You had equal material.  You had Kaspy with good king position.  You had same color bishops.  Obviously you'd need to run a computer to see for sure, but it was a draw if I had ever seen a draw before to me given the opponent.  If you're playing vs. a player ranked 2000 or below, I'd say play it out though.  In a layman game, that rarely ends as a draw...someone will blunder something.  But vs Kaspy and the moves that you guys were pumping in (I mean look, we didn't make one single mistake  We had a centipawn loss of 7.  I joke when I say Kaspy played stockfish 7, but it probably wasn't far from the truth given the breakdown)
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I'll speak to this in more depth in my analysis, but yes, it was drawn awhile ago. However, a few things: it's considered bad form for the player down in material to offer the draw, so I never did. I also felt having everyone pour over an endgame would be instructional, so i kept creating "problems" for you all to figure out (you did!). Plus, the longer the game went, hey, maybe they'll make a mistake! Again, you all never did, so a draw it is.

 
Having done this in team o versus team x, getting consensus is not an easy thing to do.  Tim, you did a great job.  I'm in for the next one.  If anyone wants to do team versus team, let me know.

 
otello said:
Having done this in team o versus team x, getting consensus is not an easy thing to do.  Tim, you did a great job.  I'm in for the next one.  If anyone wants to do team versus team, let me know.
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This is a capital, capital idea. 

I also want to play tim now, seeing how good he actually is.  :shock:    

 
My apologies to all who participated for the time lapse in sharing my analysis. I've been completely swamped with work and now with the Candidates going on I won't be able to post anything until the end of the month. I realize this screwed the momentum we had with what turned out, in my judgment, to be a fun and rewarding affair. 

So be patient! I will post my thoughts at the end of the month.

 
Streaming some chess now with live commentary on my twitch for those interested.

Follows appreciated as I try to come an official lichess streamer.

Thanks!

www.twitch.tv/CoolChessDude

 
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