Federal Agents Converge On Vick Property (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

They might find all kind of #### in the back yards but if they cant tie him directly to this he wont be charged.What happened to the witnesses that were ready to testify they saw him there , anyone still believing he will be charged are just FK racist Vick haters.

Please don't go here.TIA.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not on the fence on this one.I think ILUVBEER99 makes some valid points. I think as time passes that the likelihood of Vick being tried AND convicted is going to diminish. It is a public arena media trial at the moment. However, I do think enough has come to light to believe he is involved in dogfighting as a bloodsport AND the gambling that goes with it.The real issue is how does this affect Vick as a player? Will he come out with a chip on his shoulder and produce a career season or be distracted by the ongoing fight and fail to produce decent numbers this year? I haven't decided which side of that fence I'm on yet.Synopsis: Vick guilty of involvement (in my opinion), 50/50 chance he is charged, and I'm still 50/50 on which direction his play on the field goes because of all of this. The only thing really proved to date is that Vick is still living the thug life or is close enough to it to remain guilty by association.When can we just label the rest of the media as paparazzi (sp?) and realize that sensationalism is not substance?

you freaks really think someone is gonna go to jail for 5, 10, 20 years on charges of animal cruelty, illegal gambling, racketeering, tax evasion and a whole bunch of others that I can't think of right now, just to protect Mike Vick? Face it - his property, his knowledge, his money backing the operation. People will speak when its their ### on the line. Vick will be in jail soon enough. Get over it.

Please don't go here.TIA.J

 

[mad sweeney]

1. He says. Others say otherwise. His word against several. Add to that earlier reports of mail in his name found in the house.

2. Same as above

3. If dogfighting is found to occur on his property then there is at least peripheral proof of his financial involvement in the property alone. But it hearkens back to #2.

So far the case is the word of several vs the word of Vick. Most of whom on both sides are somewhat shady in nature.

Unfortunately the poster does make a point, that if charges fall on some, but not on Vick, what's to stop them from rolling over on him? Whether it's legit or not, trading info on Vick for a lighter sentence is quite possible.

So basically your saying it's all he said/she said at this point with no solid evidence [that we know of] , that doesn't make a very goodtriable case. This is why it makes no sense for everyone to be saying they are so sure Vick is guilty based on the current evidence publicly available.

my additions to your statement are in boldI'm saying it doesn't nake sense for anyone to make any conclusions either way. I am trying to stick to the realities of the case and not get into a bunch of uninformed hypotheses. The people who say Vick will skate are as uninformed as those that are calling for his head. But above all I am saying that this thread is devolving again into a bunch of inane arguments. I understand what you are saying, but the court of public opinion is not bound by innocent until proven guilty.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

1. He says. Others say otherwise. His word against several. Add to that earlier reports of mail in his name found in the house.

2. Same as above

3. If dogfighting is found to occur on his property then there is at least peripheral proof of his financial involvement in the property alone. But it hearkens back to #2.

So far the case is the word of several vs the word of Vick. Most of whom on both sides are somewhat shady in nature.

Unfortunately the poster does make a point, that if charges fall on some, but not on Vick, what's to stop them from rolling over on him? Whether it's legit or not, trading info on Vick for a lighter sentence is quite possible.

So basically your saying it's all he said/she said at this point with no solid evidence [that we know of] , that doesn't make a very goodtriable case. This is why it makes no sense for everyone to be saying they are so sure Vick is guilty based on the current evidence publicly available.

my additions to your statement are in boldI'm saying it doesn't nake sense for anyone to make any conclusions either way. I am trying to stick to the realities of the case and not get into a bunch of uninformed hypotheses. The people who say Vick will skate are as uninformed as those that are calling for his head. But above all I am saying that this thread is devolving again into a bunch of inane arguments. I understand what you are saying, but the court of public opinion is not bound by innocent until proven guilty.

I hear you Sweeney and i agree with you that it makes no sense to make a conclusion either way at this time, but i do think the right thing to do, even if it's in the court of public opinion, is to lean towards giving someone the benifit of the doubt until we at least have some concrete evidence.The problem with these threads is that no one has an issue when someone rips on Vick, and now Poindexter. The only conclusion that will make people happy is if Vick is charged, even if there is not enough evidence. That is a huge problem, it is a no win situation for Vick or those investigating the case. That is why it is becoming a witchhunt, at this point no one needs evidence, the've already convicted Vick in their mind.

 

[Devilsden2001]

1. He says. Others say otherwise. His word against several. Add to that earlier reports of mail in his name found in the house.

2. Same as above

3. If dogfighting is found to occur on his property then there is at least peripheral proof of his financial involvement in the property alone. But it hearkens back to #2.

So far the case is the word of several vs the word of Vick. Most of whom on both sides are somewhat shady in nature.

Unfortunately the poster does make a point, that if charges fall on some, but not on Vick, what's to stop them from rolling over on him? Whether it's legit or not, trading info on Vick for a lighter sentence is quite possible.

So basically your saying it's all he said/she said at this point with no solid evidence [that we know of] , that doesn't make a very goodtriable case. This is why it makes no sense for everyone to be saying they are so sure Vick is guilty based on the current evidence publicly available.

my additions to your statement are in boldI'm saying it doesn't nake sense for anyone to make any conclusions either way. I am trying to stick to the realities of the case and not get into a bunch of uninformed hypotheses. The people who say Vick will skate are as uninformed as those that are calling for his head. But above all I am saying that this thread is devolving again into a bunch of inane arguments. I understand what you are saying, but the court of public opinion is not bound by innocent until proven guilty.

I hear you Sweeney and i agree with you that it makes no sense to make a conclusion either way at this time, but i do think the right thing to do, even if it's in the court of public opinion, is to lean towards giving someone the benifit of the doubt until we at least have some concrete evidence.The problem with these threads is that no one has an issue when someone rips on Vick, and now Poindexter. The only conclusion that will make people happy is if Vick is charged, even if there is not enough evidence. That is a huge problem, it is a no win situation for Vick or those investigating the case. That is why it is becoming a witchhunt, at this point no one needs evidence, the've already convicted Vick in their mind.

Not only in my mind but in my heart as well.It is really to bad that Vick does not have the ethic's of Tom Brady or Manning then we would not be having this discussion.

 

[ookook]

I have no dog in this fight either way, but it does seem that there is circumstantial evidence that:

(a) There was a company that bred and sold pitbulls operating on the property that Vick was financing.

(b) There have been materials taken from the property that indicate fighting has gone on there.

I know it can be argued and will be, but I think these facts are both likely.

From this I would SPECULATE that they will at least try to mount some sort of racketeering or conspiracy chargers.

Imagine that I own a house and finance a greenhouse operation on the properrty. Later, they find evidence that there has been cannabis grown, harvested, and sold from the property.

Even if I had never been there, I could be brought up on charges. After all, this is exactly why certain laws were put in place where individuals can be linked to crimes but were not there personally (but may be giving orders). Think organized crime.

I have to wonder about the money trail is all I am saying.

 

[2stix]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

 

[Dope]

Feds find 30 dog carcasses

From PFT:

MORE THAN 30 DOG CARCASSES FOUND ON VICK PROPERTY

ESPN Radio, by way of WVEC-TV, reports that nearly three dozen dog carcasses were found on property owned by Falcons quarterback Mike Vick in Surry County, Virginia during a Thursday search by federal authorities.

Also, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC reports that Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter will continue with his own investigation into the case as the federal investigation proceeds.

Poindexter has toned down his remarks regarding the federal involvement in the case, which as of Thursday night contained some fairly inflammatory rhetoric. On Friday, Poindexter said merely that it was a "breach of protocol" for the feds to search the land without giving Poindexter advance notice.

We're also told that WAVY-TV reporter Mary Kay Mallonee said on Friday afternoon during Rick Ballou's show on 1010XL in Jacksonville that dog carcasses were indeed found on the property, and that federal investigators were happy with the results of the search.

All things considered, it's not a good outcome for Mr. Vick. The feds will come after him 100 times more aggressively than a part-time prosecutor in a rural county with 7,000 residents ever would or could, and the feds won't let go until the verdict and been entered and all appeals have been exhausted.

 

[Traders2001]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

 

[Rockton]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

So.. If I decide to start a grow-op and grow some marijuana.. according to you all I have to do is buy a property, let a family member or some low life live there and water the plants and I cannot be held accountable if the operation is discovered?

 

[mad sweeney]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

That is unsupported opinion. He owns the property and he is responsible for the activities on it, unless his cousin was paying rent for it. And they already have a decent circumstantial case if you take the witness statements in connection with these recent finds. Especially since one of those witnesses was the source for obtaining a warrant to search for carcasses. Not saying they have a case against him yet, but your conitnued, unsupported opinions are less than usefull or informative. This is looking worse and worse for Vick by the minute.

 

[3C's]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

The government may not be able to get a conviction, but the NFL does not need one. A player can be suspended even without having charges filed. Interesting, that the informant told them they would find carcasses and they did. And an informant (not sure if the same one) also said Vick is involved in dogfighting.

And if these carcasses are adult dogs, it sounds less likely that this was just a dog breeding business. I could see an occasional young pup not making it, but not 30+ adult dogs.

 

[2stix]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .

In April they had a meeting, he told him then.

 

[towney]

Wow now they found buried dogs......

Dog Carcasses Found

 

[BroadwayG]

Wow now they found buried dogs......

Dog Carcasses Found

 

[Chaos Commish]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

So.. If I decide to start a grow-op and grow some marijuana.. according to you all I have to do is buy a property, let a family member or some low life live there and water the plants and I cannot be held accountable if the operation is discovered?

Not quite. It still has to be proven that Vick was behind the dogfighting operation. If you're selling dope from the dock at Wal-Mart to the drivers then Wal-Mart will probably survive litigation and even assist in the prosecution. Expect Vick to tack in a similar direction. Boddie was on ESPN today saying Vick was clean and having no comment to breeding dogs for fighting. It's an open door for Vick to go after his tenants. He probably will. Just like you could if marijuana was grown on your property without your consent. I went to school in Chico California. We had a case where renters on an Almond Orchard had several dozen plants growing and the landlord was not prosecuted.

 

[3C's]

you gotta go to wavy.com and watch th video of the Davon Boddie interview.

It's all a conspiracy!!!! The cops planted the dogs and all the evidence.



"I got a little French Poodle, that's all I'm sayin'" :X

"It is what it is"

 

[Chaos Commish]

It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.

This is wrong. It seems very likely that they will be able to indict on dogfighting charges. Kathy Strouse has said as much and pointed out she has been involved in cases with convictions that had less evidence.

She claims to have found an obvious dogfighting ring on the property. That put the evidence over the top in her mind. Poindexter seemed to ignore this and the whole case got murky after the initial discovery, but if Strouse found a ring, she found a ring, and she says she found a ring, and she seems much more knowledgeable than Poindexter.

Well, the carcasses have to be the nail in the coffin for indictment at least. I guess a breeder could be burying dogs, but Johnny Cochran is dead, and this looks like a busy dogfighting operation. I've seen about 40 full blown pit bull fights and they were professionally run. Between 8 to 10 of those 80 something dogs died. 30 dead dogs is pretty ugly, very busy, and I wonder how barbaric this was. I'm sure a few died in "yard accidents" but this now looks like a major operation, and a very poorly run one. I only hope it wasn't an expanded "streetfighting" set up with the horribly insane sadism. Add to that the the informant apparently nailed it (over 30 was his number) and it appears someone with the goods on Mike is already ratting him out. Is the ESPN informant the same guy as the one placing carcasses? Who knows. Is the one placing carcasses also placing Vick at fights? He is credible now if he is.

I always lean innocent until proven guilty. I defended Drew last offseason and Lynch in January because members here were convicting them prematurely with little knowledge. I think Mike's in very deep caca based on the claims of an informant and the pinpointing of these carcasses. There's some legal gymnastics that may spare him, but... I'm not betting on it.

 

[ELI2TYREE]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

I'd say that's pretty significant evidence to form an informed opinion. And bring down some easy indictments to get this thing started.

 

[ELI2TYREE]

Or maybe they can get him on running an illegal pet cemetary. I'm surer that is what it is...

(snarf!)

 

[Chaos Commish]

you gotta go to wavy.com and watch th video of the Davon Boddie interview. It's all a conspiracy!!!! The cops planted the dogs and all the evidence."I got a little French Poodle, that's all I'm sayin'" :X "It is what it is"

What I saw on ESPN made me sad. If this is the quality of person Vick had on that property, the alleged dogfighting operation was probably run by the worst of the worst. I just got a few quotes. Link to the video?

 

[BassNBrew]

Here are some anti-vick posts in this thread that not one person commented on saying were wrong. Please tell me how these are more informative then what i've posted on the topic so far.

Wow Poindexter is an idiot. Wonder if Vick bought him off? LOL at him calling Vick a "boy" and then playing the race card.Yo Poindexter...what's going on here is an investigation...something you should have been conducting.

FYI...those are anti-Poindexter statements and made by me after his irresponsible comments were made to the press.

 

[3C's]

you gotta go to wavy.com and watch th video of the Davon Boddie interview.

It's all a conspiracy!!!! The cops planted the dogs and all the evidence.



"I got a little French Poodle, that's all I'm sayin'"

"It is what it is"

What I saw on ESPN made me sad. If this is the quality of person Vick had on that property, the alleged dogfighting operation was probably run by the worst of the worst. I just got a few quotes. Link to the video?

They can be a pain to link to since they use a popup. Hopefully this works.

 

[pinda]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

So.. If I decide to start a grow-op and grow some marijuana.. according to you all I have to do is buy a property, let a family member or some low life live there and water the plants and I cannot be held accountable if the operation is discovered?

Not quite. It still has to be proven that Vick was behind the dogfighting operation. If you're selling dope from the dock at Wal-Mart to the drivers then Wal-Mart will probably survive litigation and even assist in the prosecution. Expect Vick to tack in a similar direction. Boddie was on ESPN today saying Vick was clean and having no comment to breeding dogs for fighting. It's an open door for Vick to go after his tenants. He probably will. Just like you could if marijuana was grown on your property without your consent. I went to school in Chico California. We had a case where renters on an Almond Orchard had several dozen plants growing and the landlord was not prosecuted.

Unfortunately for Vick, the pharmacist who sold them items such as syringes for the dogs has already told them that M.Vick was the one that bought them. There's already the ESPN informant that confirmed his presence there. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be hard to find a witness for this. I'm not sure I understand the man love for Mike Vick in this case, if he did the crime, he should do the time. Just like any other person or player.

 

[bcr8f]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

It's his property and he is still resonsibile for how it's used. Why do you assume he wasn't there when it was used for dog fighting. Have you seen his cousin? That guy couldn't bankroll this operation.

 

[Mimo]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.

It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.

These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

It's his property and he is still resonsibile for how it's used. Why do you assume he wasn't there when it was used for dog fighting. Have you seen his cousin? That guy couldn't bankroll this operation.

What does this mean? Your looks determine the amount of money you have or can have? Simply amazing and I will leave it like that <_<

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Anyone have a link to the ages of the dogs that died? Were they puppies (which you'd expect to die in a breeding operation) or full grown?

Most importantly - is it legal to bury animals in your yard in that area? It's not in most cities.

 

[3C's]

Anyone have a link to the ages of the dogs that died? Were they puppies (which you'd expect to die in a breeding operation) or full grown?Most importantly - is it legal to bury animals in your yard in that area? It's not in most cities.

No, it's not legal in the state of Va. to bury dogs on your property. But people do it.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Anyone have a link to the ages of the dogs that died? Were they puppies (which you'd expect to die in a breeding operation) or full grown?Most importantly - is it legal to bury animals in your yard in that area? It's not in most cities.

No, it's not legal in the state of Va. to bury dogs on your property. But people do it.

Well, to make an analogy - people speed, too. But there's a difference between going 1 over the speed limit and 30 over the speed limit. You won't get prosecuted for 1. For 30, you'd better believe you will.

 

[bcr8f]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.

It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.

These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

It's his property and he is still resonsibile for how it's used. Why do you assume he wasn't there when it was used for dog fighting. Have you seen his cousin? That guy couldn't bankroll this operation.

What does this mean? Your looks determine the amount of money you have or can have? Simply amazing and I will leave it like that

Do you think that guy has the smarts or experience to bankroll a large dog fighting operation.

 

[3C's]

Anyone have a link to the ages of the dogs that died? Were they puppies (which you'd expect to die in a breeding operation) or full grown?

Most importantly - is it legal to bury animals in your yard in that area? It's not in most cities.

No, it's not legal in the state of Va. to bury dogs on your property. But people do it.

Well, to make an analogy - people speed, too. But there's a difference between going 1 over the speed limit and 30 over the speed limit. You won't get prosecuted for 1. For 30, you'd better believe you will.

Actually, all I can find right now is that it's the responsibility of the owner of a companion animal to cremate or bury the animal. link I'm sure I read something different before. I thought that's what the PETA people got in trouble for.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Anyone have a link to the ages of the dogs that died? Were they puppies (which you'd expect to die in a breeding operation) or full grown?

Most importantly - is it legal to bury animals in your yard in that area? It's not in most cities.

No, it's not legal in the state of Va. to bury dogs on your property. But people do it.

Well, to make an analogy - people speed, too. But there's a difference between going 1 over the speed limit and 30 over the speed limit. You won't get prosecuted for 1. For 30, you'd better believe you will.

Actually, all I can find right now is that it's the responsibility of the owner of a companion animal to cremate or bury the animal. link I'm sure I read something different before. I thought that's what the PETA people got in trouble for.

I know most areas of the country are that way - I assume Virginia's no exception, especially if you remember something about it.

 

[Mimo]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.

It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.

These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

It's his property and he is still resonsibile for how it's used. Why do you assume he wasn't there when it was used for dog fighting. Have you seen his cousin? That guy couldn't bankroll this operation.

What does this mean? Your looks determine the amount of money you have or can have? Simply amazing and I will leave it like that

Do you think that guy has the smarts or experience to bankroll a large dog fighting operation.

I reserve judgment because I, just like you obviously, don't know the guy from a bottle of water. I ask, can you just look at a picture and tell if a person has or does not have money? How do you really know if someone has a bankroll, as you say, or not. It is a stereotypical statement you made without facts that is why I am pointing it out. Example, if the 4 guys who own FUBU (millionaires) walked into your office or knocked on your door would you know if they were fashion designers or thugs? If you saw a picture of me, I make 6 figures, would you say I was a thug or a working class citizen. My point to you is education and simply do not judge a book by the cover. I hope you can understand where I am coming from because I can tell you probably have not been where I have been.

 

[Chaos Commish]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

So.. If I decide to start a grow-op and grow some marijuana.. according to you all I have to do is buy a property, let a family member or some low life live there and water the plants and I cannot be held accountable if the operation is discovered?

Not quite. It still has to be proven that Vick was behind the dogfighting operation. If you're selling dope from the dock at Wal-Mart to the drivers then Wal-Mart will probably survive litigation and even assist in the prosecution. Expect Vick to tack in a similar direction. Boddie was on ESPN today saying Vick was clean and having no comment to breeding dogs for fighting. It's an open door for Vick to go after his tenants. He probably will. Just like you could if marijuana was grown on your property without your consent. I went to school in Chico California. We had a case where renters on an Almond Orchard had several dozen plants growing and the landlord was not prosecuted.

Unfortunately for Vick, the pharmacist who sold them items such as syringes for the dogs has already told them that M.Vick was the one that bought them. There's already the ESPN informant that confirmed his presence there. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be hard to find a witness for this. I'm not sure I understand the man love for Mike Vick in this case, if he did the crime, he should do the time. Just like any other person or player.

Dog breeders buy syringes and administer puppy shots all the time. The informant from ESPN placed Vick at a dog fight making a 40,000 dollar wager when he was a sophomore in college. I do not recal that informant placing Vick at a fight on that property. I may have missed that I guess. Dog breeders also cull puppies in pretty big numbers, so the age of the carcasses is important. I don't have any man love for Vick. I did way back when he was a freshman at VaTech, but he lost me as a fan years ago. If it seems I am supporting him, I am just looking at other possible angles. People here on these boards convict too fast all the time. I agree, if it can be proved he was financing a dogfighting operation, or betting on fights, or breeding dogs to fight elsewhere, or hosting fights, or as it appears, all of the above, then he should go down very hard. I have no problem with that. I just think some of you think this is a slam dunk and it may not be. Deep down, I confess that I hope, as I think we all should, that Vick was not a major player in the dogfighting world. Perhaps the tenants took the operation way beyond anything Vick was aware of, just saying perhaps. It's possible. It's possible the carcasses were culled pups.

Not likely, I know.

 

[geewill]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

 

[happy_donut]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

I was wondering about this too. All the links in this thread refer to "ESPN Radio" as the source, but none of the usual news outlets (AP, etc) seem to have the story.

 

[geewill]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

I was wondering about this too. All the links in this thread refer to "ESPN Radio" as the source, but none of the usual news outlets (AP, etc) seem to have the story.

The local sports talk radio here in SFO also quoted ESPN on it...but yet nothing from ESPN that I can find. Seems suspicious to me given all the helos flying over the scene and none saw them removing 30+ dog carcasses.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

Interesting. The link above did say they found over 30 buried carcasses earlier today. It has been edited. Maybe they got mixed up about the informant claiming 30 buried dogs and reported in error? I searched several sites and cannot find anyone confirming.

 

[geewill]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

Interesting. The link above did say they found over 30 buried carcasses earlier today. It has been edited. Maybe they got mixed up about the informant claiming 30 buried dogs and reported in error? I searched several sites and cannot find anyone confirming.

It's a conspiracy i tell you! You are right...they just edited that story.

 

[Chaos Commish]

In my search I did find something that was new news to me. Also, it appears there's no confirming found buried dogs.

This is new to me:

A former South Carolina prosecutor told the AJC on Friday that he saw evidence that Vick kept dogs in that state while he was prosecuting a major dogfighting case in 2004.

"I had actually heard, as part of our investigation, that Vick had some dogs here in South Carolina," said William Frick, the lead prosecutor in the David Ray Tant dogfighting case.

Frick said he did not know what kind of dogs Vick had in South Carolina but that he assumed they were "fighting dogs." Asked for specifics, Frisk said Vick had a "dog yard" and it was not something that would bring charges.

Frick is no longer with the attorney general's office and currently is in private practice in Columbia. Tant, whom authorities labeled as the No. 2 dog breeder in the country, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to a 40-year prison term.

"I'm not surprised to hear that somewhere here in South Carolina that we have a connection," Frick said. "But as far as whether it's Tant or not, I really don't know if they dealt with each other."

According to Poindexter, investigators have interviewed two South Carolina inmates regarding the case involving Vick's Virginia property. Poindexter also said of Thursday's involvement by federal authorities, "The jurisdictional basis is some sort of interstate violation."

So, in 04 Vick had a "dog yard" but not something that would bring charges. A dog yard in the fighting world is an area where dogs are chained to buried heavy stuff (car axles are popular), and the dogs are given a shelter and enough chain to "almost" reach a neighbor. It really riles them up to be kept just out of reach. Was/is Vick keeping multiple yards? Did the Tant case touch too close to home, so he bought the property in Surrey county for his yard?

 

[Billy1x]

In my search I did find something that was new news to me. Also, it appears there's no confirming found buried dogs.

This is new to me:

A former South Carolina prosecutor told the AJC on Friday that he saw evidence that Vick kept dogs in that state while he was prosecuting a major dogfighting case in 2004.

"I had actually heard, as part of our investigation, that Vick had some dogs here in South Carolina," said William Frick, the lead prosecutor in the David Ray Tant dogfighting case.

Frick said he did not know what kind of dogs Vick had in South Carolina but that he assumed they were "fighting dogs." Asked for specifics, Frisk said Vick had a "dog yard" and it was not something that would bring charges.

Frick is no longer with the attorney general's office and currently is in private practice in Columbia. Tant, whom authorities labeled as the No. 2 dog breeder in the country, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to a 40-year prison term.

"I'm not surprised to hear that somewhere here in South Carolina that we have a connection," Frick said. "But as far as whether it's Tant or not, I really don't know if they dealt with each other."

According to Poindexter, investigators have interviewed two South Carolina inmates regarding the case involving Vick's Virginia property. Poindexter also said of Thursday's involvement by federal authorities, "The jurisdictional basis is some sort of interstate violation."

So, in 04 Vick had a "dog yard" but not something that would bring charges. A dog yard in the fighting world is an area where dogs are chained to buried heavy stuff (car axles are popular), and the dogs are given a shelter and enough chain to "almost" reach a neighbor. It really riles them up to be kept just out of reach. Was/is Vick keeping multiple yards? Did the Tant case touch too close to home, so he bought the property in Surrey county for his yard?

Hmm. The Rotoworld post says Vick STILL OWNS THE PROPERTY!! Sale didn't go through. Oops!"The remains of nearly three dozen dogs were found on property owned by Michael Vick in Surry County, Virginia. Two investigations are now taking place, one locally and one by the federal government. Apparently Vick's sale of the home never went through"

 

[Chaos Commish]

"The remains of nearly three dozen dogs were found on property owned by Michael Vick in Surry County, Virginia. Two investigations are now taking place, one locally and one by the federal government. Apparently Vick's sale of the home never went through"

I'm reasonably sure the reports of buried dog remains being discovered are conjecture or based on errors reported earlier in the day. This is fresh:

Poindexter said he and local sheriff department officials got no warning. He insists the unannounced federal raid was prompted because, it's not just any house, it's Michael Vicks' home, and he claims celebrity and race may have prompted that federal invovlement. Federal officials have not communicated to Poindexter as to what was found on the property on Thursday.

Poindexter says he hopes at some point they will share that information and that the two parallel investigations can merge. He says while there is no point now in executing the local search warrant on the house now that federal agents have dug up the property, he will continue to pursue the charges.

I doubt the feds disclosed any findings to anyone as of yet. The initial reports don't make sense if you think about it. There would be an effort to to keep the evidence confidential. I guess someone in one of the hovering helicopters may have took a count, but how likely is that. One of the videos shows what could be a mound of carcasses in the back of a utility truck, but it isn't clear.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

The link at AOL is probably bogus based on the earlier flawed reports. But I caught something else I hate to see. The dog in the picture isn't a Pit Bull. It's a Black Mouth Cur

Just like this one

BMCs are tough tough dogs used for hog doggin' and just about anything else, on the farm or ranch. Old Yeller was a BMC, not a Yellow Lab or a Golden like so many people think. BMCs are often used for crossing with Pits to add size to smaller lines of APBT. So are Presa Canarios. Vick's now deleted web page for his breeding operation was braggin' on his Presas. Unfortunately these aren't the type of things you'll find with serious breeders of pure bred APBTs. The streetfighters love to roll a tough hard biting Cur against a Pit. Or a big ol' Presa against a smaller dog that whips it. And they cross breed like mad looking for the biggest scariest beasts they can create.

 

[2stix]

They did edit that story- the bastards.CONSPIRACY?

News outlet Must of needed some friday news or the feds told them to shut up.

Anyhow, I found this interview with ILUVBEER99

http://wavy.com/global/video/popup/pop_pla...ane=info&pl

I will not hold ILUVBEER to his self imposed board banishment when Vick gets suspended cause without the debate, the thread is dead.

We were loving beer last night and having a freakin blast with that conspiracy line.

anyhow,how about Norwoods increased td stats/ increased goaline use.

 

[PMENFAN]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

Okay, we get your point; you'll never believe Vick has anything to do with this issue until you see a lab verified photgraph or video of him in a ring actually fighting dogs.Please, however, allow us rationale folks to continue our discussion on the subject without your unnecessary and pointless conjecture.I'm not going to argue with you on the merits of if, and to what degree Vick is involved, but if you are willing to ignore all of the relationships he has to different aspects of the investigation, you are being naive.You ever heard the saying "if it looks like #### and smells like ####, it probably is ####."

?So far the one guy who has looked into the case more than anyone, Poindexter, said they don't have any evidence. Once he made that statement people started calling him a hick and a pawn of Vick's.I'll start to believe he's involved once i see one legitimate shred of evidence that shows he is, so far we have NOTHING, but the media jumping all over this case reporting "unnamed" sources claims and guys who are in prison.If it's unrational to not convict someone before we see any concrete evidence then so be it.Basically anyone who doesn't rip on Vick is wrong and all the people who get sucked into the media circus are rational great people.Once i see any good evidence i'll be on the Vick is scum side, but until then i'm not going to judge a man based on the pathetic media.

I think it's fair to look at what we know. It's a pit bull, presa Canario farm, with a fighting pit. A house owned by Mike Vick, which he claimed to never visit, but that's been shown to be a lie. Why lie? He's the registered breeder. If he didn't know the breeding operation was going on, who signed the papers? He knew full well there was a dog breeding operation. The black buildings at the house. Cast aside the lies about not visiting. If you owned a mansion you were letting your cousin stay at, that was painted white, wouldn't you ask why in the heck there are several black buildings, on the back of the property? It's nothing short of naive to pretend Vick didn't know what was happening there. Of course it's just BB fodder at this point. The Feds obviously usurped Poindexter, because they felt something was happening there. Who is the new buyer? Was evidence being removed? We know the house was sold for far under market value. Did they see evidence of a coverup underway, with Poindexter complicit? Sure looks that way to me, bing that they didn't even involve him in the conversation on the new raid. I'm not going to convict Vick here, we can't. But, to analyze the facts, and come to rational conclusions is fair. To bury your head and pretend that there's no smoke, and no evidence of anytying, or involvement from Mike Vick is just plain Naive. Ask simple questions. If there's no wrong doing, why sell the house? Why cancel camp? Why hide from the media on the issue? Innocent people don't run and hide; that's why.

 

[PMENFAN]

it sounds like Poindexter is working for Vick rather than the public that elected him when he makes statements questioning other agencies trying to help him do his job ... i think it's a good thing the Feds got involved because it looks like Poindexter is trying to botch the case on purpose.... maybe he's on Vick's payroll.

Maybe Poindexter is an educated prosecuter and doesn't believe in trying to convict people without evidence.I'd say that is far more likely then him taking bribes and risking his career and reputation forever.

He apparantly doeesn't believe in executing search warrants in a timely manner before evidence can be removed either. That's my interpretation of why the Feds moved quickly. My interpretation of not involving him in the discussions is that they may feel he was knowingly allowing evidence to be removed. Do you have another guess as to why they would usurp his authority in such a manner? Regardless of the crime dramas on TV, the FBI generally assists the local authorities, they don't go over their heads such as this, unless they suspect the locals are simply not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

 

[PMENFAN]

I have no dog in this fight either way, but it does seem that there is circumstantial evidence that:(a) There was a company that bred and sold pitbulls operating on the property that Vick was financing.(b) There have been materials taken from the property that indicate fighting has gone on there. I know it can be argued and will be, but I think these facts are both likely.From this I would SPECULATE that they will at least try to mount some sort of racketeering or conspiracy chargers. Imagine that I own a house and finance a greenhouse operation on the properrty. Later, they find evidence that there has been cannabis grown, harvested, and sold from the property. Even if I had never been there, I could be brought up on charges. After all, this is exactly why certain laws were put in place where individuals can be linked to crimes but were not there personally (but may be giving orders). Think organized crime. I have to wonder about the money trail is all I am saying.

Great analogy. His breeding operation. His property. His money. It's the RICO Act, Rackateer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Act. It's a kind of catch all for stopping any untaxed flow of money. It MAY fit her. Mostly I love the analogy of the legit business as a cover for an illegal operation, with the owner pleading naivete. It's a perfect fit.

 

[PMENFAN]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

So.. If I decide to start a grow-op and grow some marijuana.. according to you all I have to do is buy a property, let a family member or some low life live there and water the plants and I cannot be held accountable if the operation is discovered?

Exactly. Merely financing the operation and providing the premises for the operation are crimes in themselves. Has he perjured himself under questioning, if under oath, at this point? Who knows how deep Mike Vick has dug himself into this.

We know very little about what was gathered. But, we know this. The same people that said they saw Vick at the matches said there were dogs buried at the property. They found the dogs. You can extrapolate however you desire from there.

 

[PMENFAN]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

So.. If I decide to start a grow-op and grow some marijuana.. according to you all I have to do is buy a property, let a family member or some low life live there and water the plants and I cannot be held accountable if the operation is discovered?

Not quite. It still has to be proven that Vick was behind the dogfighting operation. If you're selling dope from the dock at Wal-Mart to the drivers then Wal-Mart will probably survive litigation and even assist in the prosecution. Expect Vick to tack in a similar direction. Boddie was on ESPN today saying Vick was clean and having no comment to breeding dogs for fighting. It's an open door for Vick to go after his tenants. He probably will. Just like you could if marijuana was grown on your property without your consent. I went to school in Chico California. We had a case where renters on an Almond Orchard had several dozen plants growing and the landlord was not prosecuted.

This could be a reasonable tact, if Mike Vick has said, "why do you have black buildings on my propert?" The owner has an obligation to question questionable activities. The questioniing of disguising buildings, obviously to not be seen at night, wasn't done by Mike Vick. Back to Wal-Mart. If Wal-Mart management becomes aware of the activity, and does nothing, they are also guilty ot crimes under RICO, for allowing their place to be used for criminal activity, and can face criminal and CIvil penalty.

 

[2stix]

It seems the feds did get involved after finding a interstate operation.

Note that an informant placed 30 or so carcasses on the property and a black SUV was seen coming and going with plastic boxes all day and they found remains yesterday although they can't officially announce that as the WVEC reporter tried to do and had to later retract since it wasn't "official".

Note the previous video, if that isn't unearthing remains of something, I don't know what is.

Also the part of the guy in So Carolina doing 40 YEARS for dog fighting and a possible Vick connection then, and now a So Carolina inmate is offering up info, hmm, same guy?

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/f...609newvick.html