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**FFA POKER** (3 Viewers)

Big League Chew said:
if we are all trying to get back into this. maybe we should move onto a site that provides a phone app too.. i know that was always a common complaint around here about pokerstars
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This 110%

i don’t have a PC to play on PS with you guys anymore.  You do a site with a phone app and I’ll be in for “most nights”

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Thoughts on this? This is the 300k buy-in Super High Roller Bowl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG6X-vGlYBo

I'll let other people comment on the hand first before I add my thoughts, but Negreanu just seems incredibly grating to play with.
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Ugh, that sounds so pretentious.

I think 99 should 3-bet here, precisely to punish suited connectors like this and because 9's are likely good against DN's range. Flop I think Negreanu should check-call, turn is some wild table talk where he openly celebrates hitting the jack-high straight. Might've backfired as Badziakouski slowed down and knocked the turn, and that allowed him to get there on the river, although obviously board texture has a lot to do with it there as well.

Negreanu's back to playing defense here when the board pairs. Negreanu's checked twice in a row,  which I think opens the door for Badziakouski to make some bluffs here to try and take the pot. In situations like this I feel like I'm happy to check-call, beat some bluffs, beat some tens, maybe even beat some slow-played overpairs. I certainly think there's enough in his range to warrant a call, although he also has 77, 66, 89, 87, etc. in his range.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Thoughts on this? This is the 300k buy-in Super High Roller Bowl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG6X-vGlYBo

I'll let other people comment on the hand first before I add my thoughts, but Negreanu just seems incredibly grating to play with.
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I'm a big DN fan.  I think he's an amazing player and good for the game.  Takes losses in stride. 

Yeah, I play that hand differently in a few different spots.

1)  I like DN's initial raise

2)  I agree with a 3 bet there with 99.  But, with lots of players left to act, I certainly understand the flat call.  A lot of what I'm doing there depends on table dynamic up until that point.  If there's some loose calls and raises, I'm just flatting and getting away if I need to.  In late position or in a conservative game, I'm 3-betting to either take it down right away or at least get a little info.

3)  The flop -- This is the one spot where I see the argument for lots of plays from DN.  A check here is perfectly reasonable and calling any modest bet.  A continuation bet like he made, especially on the small side is not typical but it's actually a play I like a lot.  It can make your hand seem very strong in light of that kind of flop.  An even bigger c-bet is also warranted but probably the least likely move I make because it's difficult to call any raise. 

4)  99's raise on the flop is a good play but, as it turns out, probably revealed his hand.  I think he might have gotten more money from DN if he just flat calls.  Only a few hands are raising DN there.  Any set.  Any 9, especially 89 or 9T.  Likely any overpair, but those are less likely given his flat call on the flop.

5)  Here's where I think DN made a mistake.  I know he's trying to trap, but he acted way too quickly and I'd punish any hand here with a big bet and make them pay.  Any hand that hits is going to have a hard time getting away and thinking he's got the straight, especially on an overbet.  In the end, it works out for him, but I don't like the check there.

6)  99 check after him is perfect.  Saves him money if he's behind (which he was) and potentially conceals his hand.

7)  Great check by DN.  This is where I would have lost money because I'm definitely betting that river and losing more than he did. 

8 )   99's bet is just a bit too big.  DN says he's calling a smaller bet and I believe him.  $35-40K is a perfect bet to get paid here.  He might even get check raised.  That said, incredible fold by DN.  If I'm sitting there and I think through it, I come to the same conclusion as DN but I'm not sure I have the discipline given his stack size to let that go.  I'm a decent tournament player but that's a tough fold even with a good read.  Now, if that's for most of my chips, I'm letting it go, but with his stack, I'm probably calling unless I've got a dead lock read on this guy from earlier play. 

Neat hand.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Ugh, that sounds so pretentious.

I think 99 should 3-bet here, precisely to punish suited connectors like this and because 9's are likely good against DN's range. Flop I think Negreanu should check-call, turn is some wild table talk where he openly celebrates hitting the jack-high straight. Might've backfired as Badziakouski slowed down and knocked the turn, and that allowed him to get there on the river, although obviously board texture has a lot to do with it there as well.

Negreanu's back to playing defense here when the board pairs. Negreanu's checked twice in a row,  which I think opens the door for Badziakouski to make some bluffs here to try and take the pot. In situations like this I feel like I'm happy to check-call, beat some bluffs, beat some tens, maybe even beat some slow-played overpairs. I certainly think there's enough in his range to warrant a call, although he also has 77, 66, 89, 87, etc. in his range.
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That's pretty good analysis. Although I think 99 is check or fold in this position. You want to protect your calls and 99 is right near the top of that range. IMO you need to have a polarized range (10s+, AK, AQs+... along with some Axs and some suited connectors to balance that range) and a merged range (pocket pairs and top suited connectors) in this position. Things change with less players to act and a later raise-first-in, but here I like a call or a fold. 

On the flop I don't mind a bet or a check by DN, but I'd size it bigger on this wet flop. Like the raise and call. I'm ok with how the hand played out after that as well. The overbet on the river makes since and was setup somewhat by the check on the turn. Very polarizing.

Couple things... these are some of the best players ever and critiquing them feels weird. I was really pulling for Nick Petrangelo in this tournament. He's a Doug Polk Upswing instructor and his MTT course is getting rave reviews. 

Also, I can't stand Negreanu. I get how he can be good for the game... unless, of course, you play online. He shamefully shills for Poker Stars (More Rake is Better) and has done some shady things over the years. TV likes to exaggerate his plays like this because to the average viewer he's entertaining. I think this was a good lay down for sure, but not anything that spectacular. If Badziakouski made that play it wouldn't get nearly the love it got because it's DNEGS.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
And flat call aint the worst thing, but again, i wanna punish people who are playing junky hands and attempt to gain position.
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Yes, but he's UTG+1. The entire table is left to act still. Your raise with 99 has to fold to any 4 bet.

If you're middle to late position, then sure, but not early or early-mid. Do that too often and you end up giving chips away in the long run.  

But 0 chance I'm folding there to that bet.

 
I was in the jump seat, blinds were kennedy/ franklin, with a kill and wolf dog straddle.  It was raised by the women in the straw dog, dude call in the plane crash, got 3 bet by the old man in the tux.  I wake up in ocean with KK.     I got Da plane to act next and helen keller.  Whats the play?

 
gianmarco said:
Yes, but he's UTG+1. The entire table is left to act still. Your raise with 99 has to fold to any 4 bet.

If you're middle to late position, then sure, but not early or early-mid. Do that too often and you end up giving chips away in the long run.  

But 0 chance I'm folding there to that bet.
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Exactly. And remember, this isn't the 1/2 at Flamingo. With that lineup left to act, you've got to tread lightly. There's also stack size implications.

And not to get too  :nerd:  but you need to protect your ranges. 99 is a good hand to protect your call range here, which you need when facing a RFI. Believe me, when I play live or online I'm taking people to 3 bet city over and over. But in a tournament like this, in this position... I don't hate a 3 bet, but I like call mostly and fold sometimes.

ETA: In looking at the stack sizes again, there's really only one short stack - I thought Smith was also short stacked in the sb. So I'm less inclined to fold now. While I think you need a small fold frequency in this spot, it's going to be pretty small and table dependent. With a few small stacks I think there's a higher better chance you face an all-in squeeze, but against one at a 2:3 SPR I'm not worried.

 
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$50 live tourneys at a casino.....has anyone played these before?  Or something similar?

Are they basically shove fests?

I'm looking at doing one at the Tropicana in a few weeks.  I might do a $100 one at Borgata too.

And if they do turn into a shove fest, what do I do?  

 
eoMMan said:
$50 live tourneys at a casino.....has anyone played these before?  Or something similar?

Are they basically shove fests?

I'm looking at doing one at the Tropicana in a few weeks.  I might do a $100 one at Borgata too.

And if they do turn into a shove fest, what do I do?  
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Short answer is yes.  These typically have blind escalating very quickly and after one hour it is a shovefest with most people under 10 big blinds.

 
eoMMan said:
$50 live tourneys at a casino.....has anyone played these before?  Or something similar?

Are they basically shove fests?

I'm looking at doing one at the Tropicana in a few weeks.  I might do a $100 one at Borgata too.

And if they do turn into a shove fest, what do I do?  
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Just played a couple at the Mohegan Sun while on a business trip and had a blast. Didn't finish in the money but came close. I found that the players in the tourney were pretty much the same as at the money tables, aggressive players are going to play aggressive and grinders are going to grind. I didn't see a shove fest, but a player will go all-in more quickly as a strategy bet.

I say go for it, it was fun.

 
eoMMan said:
$50 live tourneys at a casino.....has anyone played these before?  Or something similar?

Are they basically shove fests?

I'm looking at doing one at the Tropicana in a few weeks.  I might do a $100 one at Borgata too.

And if they do turn into a shove fest, what do I do?  
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If you want to play a little longer and have it be less of a shove fest, play at one of the casinos that have deep stack tournaments like the Venetian. The buy-ins do tend to be higher for those, however.

That said, I tend to enjoy the low stakes tourneys. I generally play tight, but when I get a good hand, I play it aggressively.

 
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$50 tourneys will be fun but also:

1.  The rake is really high.  It's a $40 to the prize pool and $10 to the house.  Pretty much unbeatable in the long term.  1/2 cash may seem bigger and scarier because it's more money but I think that offers more value.  it depends on your comfort level, of course.  

2.  There's a lot of dealmaking in small tournaments (in my limited experience) that generally tends to minimize advantage.  Groups of regs will want to adjust the payout structure on the fly, giving money to one or more bubble spots or splitting the top prizes evenly without regard to chip counts.  There's value to be found if you don't mind negotiating and being treated as a ##### for doing so.  But it's less fun.  

Regarding the later stages of these or any tournament here's what you want to consider:

1.  How big is your stack relative to not just the big blind but all the money in the pot, including small blind and antes.  When this ratio gets somewhere between 15:1 and 12:1, you could switch to playing pretty much jam or fold when nobody has opened in front of you.  Some people will grumble and maybe it will seem less like poker and less fun.  And although it may bust you faster, it can make your outcomes better those times you make a few double ups and have the stack to go deep.  Again, it's up to you to value how important the experience and the money are to you.  

2.  You should be paying attention to everyone's stack size and trying to steal from people trying to protect what they have (middling sizes) and staying away from those who are either short or deep enough to gamble with you.  By all means get action from the small and big stacks when you have good hands.  Pay particular attention to who's in the big blind.  They're getting a better price to play sheriff so be more careful when the sheriff has lots of bullets.  

3.  hand selection is largely pairs, suited aces, and then other stuff depending on the situation.  Suited connectors do best when you're guaranteed to see all five cards.  

Good luck, have fun!

 
eoMMan said:
$50 live tourneys at a casino.....has anyone played these before?  Or something similar?

Are they basically shove fests?

I'm looking at doing one at the Tropicana in a few weeks.  I might do a $100 one at Borgata too.

And if they do turn into a shove fest, what do I do?  
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The $100 at borgata will burn a good 4 to 5 hours, is not a turbo like the $50 Ballys tourney. Either tends to get limp/shove late because of blinds, but borgata will have best cash tables for afterwards. 

 
Had an interesting hand tonight.  1/2 NL Holdem.  

Preflop action and my position isn't 100% percent clear.  99% sure I was in the blinds.  I think Preflop, it went EP raise to 6, 3 callers, Sb or button calls, I call with Kh 6h.  

Flop come Kx 9h 4h.

I check, raise to 11 from EP, fold, fold, call, raise allin to 60 from button or sb.  I call 60, EP calls 60, other caller goes all in for 196 total.  136 to me.  Everyone all in but me and EP behind me.  He has about 320 more behind.  I have him covered by 200.  

I don't ever see me folding here given that they are both all in and for the amount.  

So, call or push?  

 
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IC FBGCav said:
Had an interesting hand tonight.  1/2 NL Holdem.  

Preflop action and my position isn't 100% percent clear.  99% sure I was in the blinds.  I think Preflop, it went EP raise to 6, 3 callers, Sb or button calls, I call with Kh 6h.  

Flop come Kx 9h 4h.

I check, raise to 11 from EP, fold, fold, call, raise allin to 60 from button or sb.  I call 60, EP calls 60, other caller goes all in for 196 total.  136 to me.  Everyone all in but me and EP behind me.  He has about 320 more behind.  I have him covered by 200.  

I don't ever see me folding here given that they are both all in and for the amount.  

So, call or push?  
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What's everyone's analysis? With that action in front of you, good odds that there is another paired King (and likely better kicker), flopped set, or another flush draw. Of course the only other flush draw that beats you needs the Ace and the odds are low, but still.

You could win but I don't see the odds as currently being in your favor. If you are feeling lucky then call but no sense going all-in on EP as he has been consistent on betting stronger cards than yours.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Had an interesting hand tonight.  1/2 NL Holdem.  

Preflop action and my position isn't 100% percent clear.  99% sure I was in the blinds.  I think Preflop, it went EP raise to 6, 3 callers, Sb or button calls, I call with Kh 6h.  

Flop come Kx 9h 4h.

I check, raise to 11 from EP, fold, fold, call, raise allin to 60 from button or sb.  I call 60, EP calls 60, other caller goes all in for 196 total.  136 to me.  Everyone all in but me and EP behind me.  He has about 320 more behind.  I have him covered by 200.  

I don't ever see me folding here given that they are both all in and for the amount.  

So, call or push?  
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I'd suggest folding K6 suited, even in blinds, so you don't end up in these tough situations.  :lol:

Yeah, I could see EP with either a set or a pair of kings with an elite kicker.  The other caller could be on a set, two pair, or the top flush draw. 

Either way, I don't like your situation.  You have outs but not outs to the nuts.  

Fold.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Had an interesting hand tonight.  1/2 NL Holdem.  

Preflop action and my position isn't 100% percent clear.  99% sure I was in the blinds.  I think Preflop, it went EP raise to 6, 3 callers, Sb or button calls, I call with Kh 6h.  

Flop come Kx 9h 4h.

I check, raise to 11 from EP, fold, fold, call, raise allin to 60 from button or sb.  I call 60, EP calls 60, other caller goes all in for 196 total.  136 to me.  Everyone all in but me and EP behind me.  He has about 320 more behind.  I have him covered by 200.  

I don't ever see me folding here given that they are both all in and for the amount.  

So, call or push?  
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WHAT HAPPENED?

 
chet said:
WHAT HAPPENED?
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I shoved.  EP tanked for 2 minutes and called with 99

EP 99

OC AcAs

SB/B Jh Qh

Turn 6x 2x

I was 26% on the flop, 23% on the river and this is probably the best situation for me.

Having the player behind me plus with a decent stack makes a big difference.  But I don't see many people calling 60 with a set and that flop in that situation.  It is a really terrible play.  

 
IC FBGCav said:
I shoved.  EP tanked for 2 minutes and called with 99

EP 99

OC AcAs

SB/B Jh Qh

Turn 6x 2x

I was 26% on the flop, 23% on the river and this is probably the best situation for me.

Having the player behind me plus with a decent stack makes a big difference.  But I don't see many people calling 60 with a set and that flop in that situation.  It is a really terrible play.  
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He tanked for 2 minutes with a set of nines?  Holy crap that is awful.

 
IC FBGCav said:
I shoved.  EP tanked for 2 minutes and called with 99

EP 99

OC AcAs

SB/B Jh Qh

Turn 6x 2x

I was 26% on the flop, 23% on the river and this is probably the best situation for me.

Having the player behind me plus with a decent stack makes a big difference.  But I don't see many people calling 60 with a set and that flop in that situation.  It is a really terrible play.  
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really?

 
IC FBGCav said:
I shoved.  EP tanked for 2 minutes and called with 99

EP 99

OC AcAs

SB/B Jh Qh

Turn 6x 2x

I was 26% on the flop, 23% on the river and this is probably the best situation for me.

Having the player behind me plus with a decent stack makes a big difference.  But I don't see many people calling 60 with a set and that flop in that situation.  It is a really terrible play.  
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The fact that he called rather than re-raised is the terrible play, yes? Perhaps knowing that he was up against a probable flush draw, he was waiting to see what came on the turn before he shoved.

 
dhockster said:
The fact that he called rather than re-raised is the terrible play, yes? Perhaps knowing that he was up against a probable flush draw, he was waiting to see what came on the turn before he shoved.
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Depending on stack sizes I think that is a reasonable play to just call and then shove on the turn if no heart comes.

 
Don't Noonan said:
He tanked for 2 minutes with a set of nines?  Holy crap that is awful.
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Lol. None of the opponents should have KK in their range (even though AA apparently found its way in...which also speaks to the level of play). 99 is really the strongest hand that should be possible in this situation given the pf action and 99 being the open.

This specific hand for IC FBGCav doesn't really apply, but this is exactly why the key to winning these low stakes live games is to isolate pre. You should almost never be limping; raise first in or fold, 3 bet at a higher frequency, tighten your range but increase your bet sizes. It's so much harder winning multi-way pots than it is heads-up with the way hands realize their equity.

But as far as the original question, I think I can find a fold on the flop here if I'm our hero. There are just too many ways you can be way behind or drawing dead.

 
Softballguy said:
Lol. None of the opponents should have KK in their range (even though AA apparently found its way in...which also speaks to the level of play). 99 is really the strongest hand that should be possible in this situation given the pf action and 99 being the open.

This specific hand for IC FBGCav doesn't really apply, but this is exactly why the key to winning these low stakes live games is to isolate pre. You should almost never be limping; raise first in or fold, 3 bet at a higher frequency, tighten your range but increase your bet sizes. It's so much harder winning multi-way pots than it is heads-up with the way hands realize their equity.

But as far as the original question, I think I can find a fold on the flop here if I'm our hero. There are just too many ways you can be way behind or drawing dead.
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:goodposting: Exactly, based on pre flop action no way someone has pocket kings so you know you are ahead.

 
Also, I forgot to mention that they pay a high hand every hour.  This leads to many people slow playing big hand pre to see a flop.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Of course, if you aren't reraising 99 here then what hands are you ever reraising with?  Are you folding the turn if a hearts comes?   You are always getting it all in here.  No reason to give up your fold equity.
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gotcha.  I misinterpreted your initial post.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Of course, if you aren't reraising 99 here then what hands are you ever reraising with?  Are you folding the turn if a hearts comes?   You are always getting it all in here.  No reason to give up your fold equity.
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Understood.  I would reraise in that scenario 3 out of 4 times and just call 1 out of 4 to mix up my play.

 
If I’m playing in a 1-2 no limit game with =< a first buy in and I flop top pair and flush draw I’m going broke or doubling up 100% of the time.

Fact

 
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