Firing an employee. It sucks. Can anyone relate? (1 Viewer)

[FatMax]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

 

[Nick Vermeil]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

Easily the worst part of my job. I do my best to make sure anyone I layoff gets what’s due to them and I always advocate for the best exit package possible. But it’s never easy (with one exception where I was happy to wield the ax for a scum bag that was side dealing).

 

[Dezbelief]

Business is business, you know that and he knows that. You should be feeling relieved that he's gone, being nice only goes so far in business if you're not producing. You shouldn't let a business decision bother you after work. How many times has a FBG came in here wondering what to do after getting canned? Every time it seems they wind up with a better job for them. You did good, you made the right decision for both you and the employee HWBF

 

[Gally]

I have only had to fire one person in my career. He was just overwhelmed by the job and couldn't do it. He was actually thankful when I let him go because he was too stressed as he couldn't do the job. Nice guy, hard worker, but just couldn't grasp what we needed him to do.

I felt bad but not that bad because it just wasn't a good fit. Plus, he saw the writing on the wall so it made it a lot easier.


It's really why its so important to put in the work when hiring. If you find the right people you hopefully won't have to fire anyone.

 

[arrow1]

Yep, as a small business owner for 32 years, had to do it a few times. One lady went berzerk and threatened to sue me.

 

[FatMax]

But it’s never easy (with one exception where I was happy to wield the ax for a scum bag that was side dealing).

There has only been one that was easy for me as well. He had a drug/alcohol issue, and after many attempts to clean him up (including offering to foot the bill for a rehab facility and a promise to hold his job), he decided to show up to work so drunk that he could barely stand up. That one wasn't hard at all.

 

[FatMax]

Yep, as a small business owner for 32 years, had to do it a few times. One lady went berzerk and threatened to sue me.

Same, but only 15 years for me. And no berzerk ladies yet.

 

[jb1020]

Small business owner for 10 years now. I can say that it's not fun, but I sleep okay at night because its a decision I never take lightly.

In the 10 years I've been running things I've taken 2 approaches to having bad/under performing employees. At first I tried to force them to quit. Thats not the way to go about it.

Though this is probalby easier when its your business/money thats on the line.

 

[-OZ-]

I dabble a bit in labor law for the federal government. Frankly, more people should be fired but it’s hard to get supervisors to do the work to make it stick. Or have the fortitude to do it in the first place.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

it's not fun, though I've had several that were plenty satisfying.

 

[Brownsfan]

Being a chef, I have fired over 50 people in my career. At least half were no call/ no show so they basically quit.
Prior to this job, it was only hard from the emotional side of it. I used to tell myself that people fired themselves, I was there only to break the news to them
The company I work for now actually has a HR department so the paperwork is a nightmare. I tell new hires if it's not working out, they will know it's coming long before it actually does.
All that being said most of my disciplinary actions are started with the idea of improving performance, not getting rid of an employee.

 

[JAA]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

Nothing to add. You nailed it. It's a problem if you aren't having those feelings.

 

[Kanil]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

I agree, it sucks bad. One thing that has made it easier for me was having to do a round of layoffs. It sucks 10x worse to let someone go because the company decided to have a RIF than it does to let someone who has earned it go.

 

[supermike80]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

Done it many many times. It's never easy. I can't say I have had the complete breakdown, thankfully. Worst reaction I got was when I told a guy I had to let him go, his jaw literally dropped. That being said...I try to keep my ears out for when that person I let go finds something else. And to my knowledge, every one has. That makes me happy. I never wish ill will on anyone...and do sincerely hope they land somewhere else. I take a little comfort in that. Knowing that the many I have let go will land back on their feet.....I guess it makes the next one a little easier? But yeah, generally it always sucks at the time

 

[-OZ-]

Yep, as a small business owner for 32 years, had to do it a few times. One lady went berzerk and threatened to sue me.

You’re probably lucky (and doing things right) that it’s only one.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Super sorry you’re going through this. Fortunately, I’ve only had to fire people who deserved it, and weren’t nice on a personal level.

 

[Phil Elliott]

In a Dow 30 company I had to fire several people. Usually as part of a reduction in force but sometimes for specific performance. Once I fought back firing a 40 year employee and keeping a contractor doing the same job. Discussed with legal and they agreed with me to keep the employee. Usually HR joins in the meeting. Manager reviews the situation and communicates they are being let go. Then turned over to HR to review timing,benefits, outplacement help. If they aren't immediately being walked out the door, and have several weeks left, they are advised they can spend their working hours looking for another job internally or externally. Actually, most people fired for performance know it's the right thing to do and they didn't have the will to quit on their own.

 

[Sand]

Did it once - the HR guy with me locked up and I had to do it myself. If I'm being honest we'd have been better off if I could have fired the HR guy. Still, it sucked. I hated every second of it.

 

[zamboni]

Yes, it does suck having to do it, but I know from experience (being the victim of two big RIFs) it sucks a lot more being on the receiving end.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

QUOTE="JAA, post: 24502708, member: 508"]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

Nothing to add. You nailed it. It's a problem if you aren't having those feelings.
[/QUOTE]


I was trying to figure out a way to say the same thing. I respect you more @FatMax because you feel this way. I’m not sure that helps right now.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I've had to fire a few people, as recently as just a few weeks ago. It's not fun, but the good thing about my line of work (higher ed) is that by the time you reach the termination stage, there is absolutely no doubt that this person needs to go. I've never had to go through a "for cause" termination that I had any second guesses about -- they were all 100% in the institution's best interests, which makes it pretty easy to go home at the end of the day and forget about it.

Unfortunately, there was one time a few years ago when we had to fire some people who had done nothing wrong because of budget cuts. That sucked. I would strongly consider a return to faculty ranks before I do that again. Not worth it. I stand by all of those cuts, but the fact that they were the right thing to do doesn't make it any easier.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Gives me anxiety just reading this thread. Probably why I'm best as a worker bee.

 

[FatMax]

I take a little comfort in that. Knowing that the many I have let go will land back on their feet.....I guess it makes the next one a little easier?

One of the reasons we kept him on a little longer than we should have was because he was having personal problems. His wife left him a few months ago, and we felt he was kinda clinging to his job as sort of life anchor. But that's untenable in the long term. Afterward, he did mention that his siblings had been trying to get him to move back home (several hundred miles away from here) after his marital problems, but he stayed because of the job. Now he can go get a fresh start around his family. Or at least that's what I tell myself to make me feel better ....

 

[dickey moe]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

 

[fruity pebbles]

I take a little comfort in that. Knowing that the many I have let go will land back on their feet.....I guess it makes the next one a little easier?

One of the reasons we kept him on a little longer than we should have was because he was having personal problems. His wife left him a few months ago, and we felt he was kinda clinging to his job as sort of life anchor. But that's untenable in the long term. Afterward, he did mention that his siblings had been trying to get him to move back home (several hundred miles away from here) after his marital problems, but he stayed because of the job. Now he can go get a fresh start around his family. Or at least that's what I tell myself to make me feel better ....

Oof, that's tough. What was the issue? Just not getting it?

 

[FatMax]

I take a little comfort in that. Knowing that the many I have let go will land back on their feet.....I guess it makes the next one a little easier?

One of the reasons we kept him on a little longer than we should have was because he was having personal problems. His wife left him a few months ago, and we felt he was kinda clinging to his job as sort of life anchor. But that's untenable in the long term. Afterward, he did mention that his siblings had been trying to get him to move back home (several hundred miles away from here) after his marital problems, but he stayed because of the job. Now he can go get a fresh start around his family. Or at least that's what I tell myself to make me feel better ....

Oof, that's tough. What was the issue? Just not getting it?

Yes, partly. Mainly, he just couldn't do the job well, and in a timely matter. He's the guy that takes twice as long as everyone else on a task, but still doesn't do it well. Those people are everywhere, in every industry.

 

[dkp993]

As I’ve been a leader or manager for over 25 years have probably easily fired 100 people, maybe 200. Most of them pretty easy in the sense that we had honest conversations prior to the termination and they knew it was coming if they kept doing the thing that would get them fired. So it’s not a surprise and pretty straightforward. But with that said every single time I have a pit in my stomach and that little voice in the back of my head trying to talk me out of doing it.

What I’ve told all the managers I’ve trained over the years about the act of firing somebody….. “the day it stops being hard or I (you) stop feeling that pit in my (your) stomach is the day I (you) need to quit being a leader.“

I don’t want to stop caring, I think that caring makes me good at what I do. But the caring also carries a price to pay, the hard. Being an good leader means being willing to pay that personal price.

 

[stbugs]

Gives me anxiety just reading this thread. Probably why I'm best as a worker bee.

I’ve managed a bunch of people but luckily never had to fire anyone directly. I’m not as much a fan of management as I am of working on teams and not being “responsible” for others’ careers/performance. Unfortunately, I’ve been a party to some mass layoffs where I knew before hand and had to rank people. Miserable days and I luckily didn't have to do 1 on 1s (my small teams made it through, less tech folks).

My wife has not been so lucky, been stressed for months now, having to do many 1 on 1s. Probably easier than telling someone they aren’t cutting it versus hey the company is letting go of a bunch of people due to business. Still been hard on her.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yes, it does suck having to do it, but I know from experience (being the victim of two big RIFs) it sucks a lot more being on the receiving end.

This is true. One person still has a job.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

 

[FatMax]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Yep. And let's be honest. They know exactly why it's happening most of the time. It doesn't come out of the blue, but after several conversations detailing "this is what we expect of you".

 

[Chadstroma]

It sucks. No getting around it.
However, sometimes it not only is what is best for the company but it is also can be what is best for the fired employee.

 

[Grahamburn]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Yes. Typically once you've reached termination there have been multiple conversations in an effort to improve their performance.

 

[Gawain]

Worst was a guy that I had brought over from my previous employer. First six months were great, then he started coming in later and later without notice in a position that had front loaded reporting needs. I talked with him, asked about issues and then was direct his failure to notify was a major issue.

Finally, he comes in at 1 PM and after documenting decided to pull the trigger. At that meeting he goes into the reasoning and problems he and his family have been having, but by then it was too late. Still think about him every now and then and hope he is ok.

 

[UncleZen]

I don't typically mind firing someone. If I have reached that point, I have really tried to help you before it came to that. If they were a good worker just in the wrong position, I will try and move them to another area. Now layoffs are a different story and it breaks my heart every time.

 

[bigbottom]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

 

[bigbottom]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Yes. Typically once you've reached termination there have been multiple conversations in an effort to improve their performance.

Right. Which is why you don’t want to muddy the waters during the termination meeting by saying that you’re letting them go for a reason other than their demonstrated poor performance.

 

[FatMax]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

Good info. I have always done the "different direction" approach. Mainly, because it's easier. I feel like hitting it head on would invite a discussion or argument into a situation that I'm trying to make as short as possible. I never thought that it could be a problem.

 

[AAABatteries]

I won’t go in to any details but I’ve basically told my last 3 managers that I don’t want to be a people manager because I don’t want to fire/layoff people. It’s the worst.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

You maybe right but the only two times I’ve been sued is by the two people I’ve fired for cause.

 

[bigbottom]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

Good info. I have always done the "different direction" approach. Mainly, because it's easier. I feel like hitting it head on would invite a discussion or argument into a situation that I'm trying to make as short as possible. I never thought that it could be a problem.

I know it's counterintuitive. But when you fire an employee, and then their replacement is younger, or the other gender, or a different race, or not disabled, you don't want the stated reason for the termination to be "we're going a different direction" when they bring an employment discrimination claim. And it never helps your case to have to admit in a deposition that you didn't tell the truth or were intentionally vague about the reason you were firing them, as this creates evidence of "pretext" which can be used against you when you attempt to get the claim dismissed on summary judgment.

You are correct that being direct can invite a discussion or argument, but you just have to be firm about not getting into a debate on the details. State that they are being terminated for poor performance, and that HR can help them with the paperwork. I'd also argue that someone being fired and told simply that the company is going a different direction also invites discussion or argument because it's generally an empty statement. The employee often comes away with the reaction that "they wouldn't even tell me why I was being fired," which more often than not results in increased animosity and suspicion that something unlawful may be behind it.

 

[bigbottom]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

You maybe right but the only two times I’ve been sued is by the two people I’ve fired for cause.

Yeah, crappy employees are often the ones that are most litigious. My point is that in both of those lawsuits, if you told them you were firing them for poor performance, that helped your defense. Telling them that you were going a different direction would have hurt your defense.

 

[bigbottom]

For what it's worth, I've been involved in probably 2,500 employment terminations over my career, and in probably 200+ lawsuits arising from employment terminations (there is virtually no overlap between the first and second categories). So my conclusions and opinions on best practices are based on aggregated data. There are sure to be anecdotal situations that are wholly inconsistent with my conclusions, so I'm not surprised at all that people may have different opinions based on their experiences. People are complicated. And people react to being fired in very different ways.

P.S. And yes, firing people sucks. I spent much of my career advising employers on how to properly manage performance so that they could avoid having to fire people.

 

[FatMax]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

You maybe right but the only two times I’ve been sued is by the two people I’ve fired for cause.

And let me guess ... your insurance company settled and they got paid anyway

 

[tri-man 47]

I actually got "fired" a few weeks ago ...I was denied faculty tenure at my university, so I get to work through next year (I was actually fired a year ago, but had a successful appeal). The odd thing is that throughout last year and even now, I'm essentially treated as a non-entity, despite 26 years at the university ...particularly since it's a smaller Catholic university. [PS: This pushes me into retirement a couple of years earlier than planned ..,but thank you.]

My point: On one hand, treat the person as a fellow human being. Show respect. On the other hand, it's a business decision, so go with it. In many/most cases, the fired individual will end up back on their feet, often in a better situation. That will take time, but no need to get too lost in the moment. Sometimes - yes - the individual is getting the short end of the stick. But again, respect them as an individual and do what needs to be done. Life can be messy sometimes, and we get caught in the middle.

 

[AAABatteries]

Mods - request the bigbottom alias be renamed The Terminator. TIA

 

[Dezbelief]

respect them as an individual

Amen

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I was a senior PM in healthcare for 12 years. I've had to fire people - and it sucks every time. Even when it's for cause, and they totally deserved it, it still sucks.

 

[Dezbelief]

Mods - request the bigbottom alias be renamed The Terminator. TIA

Too late, the mods have been let go.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yeah, crappy employees are often the ones that are most litigious.

So you'll appreciate this story:

My mother was an HR director for decades. Near the end of her career, sometime in the 90s, she had an employee who had been missing a ton of work. The employee was bringing doctor's notes excusing her absences. When the frequency of the notes/absences mounted, her manager became suspicious, and reviewed her file.

The signature on the 1st note was vastly different from the signature on every subsequent note. They did some research, contacted the medical center, spoke to the doctor. Long story short, the employee in question stole a pad from the doctor's office and had been writing notes for her absences, forging the doctor's signature.

Obviously my mother terminated her employment.

The woman sued on the basis of sexism, claiming she'd been fired because she was a woman, by my mother, also a woman.

When it went to court, it was pretty cut & dry. Judge ruled against her, and issued a statement from the bench that it was his determination that she had not been fired because she was a woman, but rather because she was a stupid woman.

I laugh every time I think of that story.