Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

Honestly, I'd have no problem with an arrest on the spot...but I also have no problem with letting him remain free while investigating. Remember that they DID drag him down to the police station that night. He was NOT allowed to walk away from the scene.

 

[Guest]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.

Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

Honestly, I'd have no problem with an arrest on the spot...but I also have no problem with letting him remain free while investigating. Remember that they DID drag him down to the police station that night. He was NOT allowed to walk away from the scene.

So I think I solved the mystery as to why he wasn't immediately arrested. The Florida legislation from a few years ago is even worse than I thought (emphasis mine).

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil

6 action for justifiable use of force.--\

7 (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s.

8 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such

9 force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action

10 for the use of such force, unless the person against whom

11 force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s.

12 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her

13 official duties and the officer identified himself or herself

14 in accordance with any applicable law or the person using

15 force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was

16 a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the

17 term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in

18 custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

19 (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard

20 procedures for investigating the use of force as described in

21 subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for

22 using force unless it determines that there is probable cause

23 that the force that was used was unlawful.

So although traditionally, self-defense is an affirmative defense, here the Florida legislature has created a law whereby the doctrine that you have the right to defend your property extends to wherever you have a legal place to be. Additionally, one is allowed to use deadly force if one reasonably believes it's necessary to prevent one's own death, great bodily harm, or the commission of a forcible felony. And there's a presumption of said reasonable belief if someone is trying to enter your home or occupied car. And then once someone exercises that use of deadly force, the justice department is prohibited from moving forward with any sort of prosecution until they have probable cause that your affirmative defense is wrong.

 

[renesauz]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.

Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

Honestly, I'd have no problem with an arrest on the spot...but I also have no problem with letting him remain free while investigating. Remember that they DID drag him down to the police station that night. He was NOT allowed to walk away from the scene.

So I think I solved the mystery as to why he wasn't immediately arrested. The Florida legislation from a few years ago is even worse than I thought (emphasis mine).

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil

6 action for justifiable use of force.--\

7 (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s.

8 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such

9 force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action

10 for the use of such force, unless the person against whom

11 force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s.

12 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her

13 official duties and the officer identified himself or herself

14 in accordance with any applicable law or the person using

15 force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was

16 a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the

17 term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in

18 custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

19 (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard

20 procedures for investigating the use of force as described in

21 subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for

22 using force unless it determines that there is probable cause

23 that the force that was used was unlawful.

So although traditionally, self-defense is an affirmative defense, here the Florida legislature has created a law whereby the doctrine that you have the right to defend your property extends to wherever you have a legal place to be. Additionally, one is allowed to use deadly force if one reasonably believes it's necessary to prevent one's own death, great bodily harm, or the commission of a forcible felony. And there's a presumption of said reasonable belief if someone is trying to enter your home or occupied car. And then once someone exercises that use of deadly force, the justice department is prohibited from moving forward with any sort of prosecution until they have probable cause that your affirmative defense is wrong.

Not sure I have a problem with this law...in fact, it makes more sense than what flies for law in other states. It should be noted though, that this law doesn't prevent Zimmerman's eventual arrest and prosecution if they determine deadly force was unwarrented.

 

[Topes]

So I think I solved the mystery as to why he wasn't immediately arrested. The Florida legislation from a few years ago is even worse than I thought (emphasis mine).

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil

6 action for justifiable use of force.--\

7 (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s.

8 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such

9 force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action

10 for the use of such force, unless the person against whom

11 force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s.

12 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her

13 official duties and the officer identified himself or herself

14 in accordance with any applicable law or the person using

15 force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was

16 a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the

17 term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in

18 custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

19 (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard

20 procedures for investigating the use of force as described in

21 subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for

22 using force unless it determines that there is probable cause

23 that the force that was used was unlawful.

So although traditionally, self-defense is an affirmative defense, here the Florida legislature has created a law whereby the doctrine that you have the right to defend your property extends to wherever you have a legal place to be. Additionally, one is allowed to use deadly force if one reasonably believes it's necessary to prevent one's own death, great bodily harm, or the commission of a forcible felony. And there's a presumption of said reasonable belief if someone is trying to enter your home or occupied car. And then once someone exercises that use of deadly force, the justice department is prohibited from moving forward with any sort of prosecution until they have probable cause that your affirmative defense is wrong.

Thanks for busting out the statute. Goes a long way to explaining the legal justification non-arrest.

Possible Witnesses Emerge in the Trayvon Martin Death

...

More information about what happened that night has been released by Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr., both from the incident reports of the police responding to the 911 calls, and in statements to the press.

Zimmerman saw Trayvon walking through the gated community around 7:15 and called Sanford police on a non-emergency number to report a suspicious person. He was told that the police would dispatch an officer, and to keep his distance from the individual. Before the officer arrived, the department got at least six 911 calls from residents bordering the walkway where the confrontation occurred, reporting two men fighting. On at least one of the calls, the fight and the fatal gunshot can be heard in the background, according to the police chief.

...

Though said incident report has been released, I haven't seen it yet. This is the first time I've noticed that the call Zimmerman placed was to a "non-emergency number" - not to 911. Wonder what the timeline is from there. The police may be establishing why they didn't treat it as an emergency until the 911 calls started coming in. If so, that strongly suggests that there was no crime being reported on the initial call, as many have presumed.

I'd really like to hear the 911 calls, with timestamps, but they're purportedly not releasing any of them to the public because they don't want to taint a potential jury pool.

 

[Topes]

Wondering if the call to police during which Zimmerman purportedly uttered "they always get away" was this call to the non-emergency number.

If so, is that call recorded?

 

[Christo]

Wondering if the call to police during which Zimmerman purportedly uttered "they always get away" was this call to the non-emergency number.If so, is that call recorded?

It had to be. Amazon records customer service calls. It would be dumb for a police department to not record all incoming calls if only to protect themselves. Plus, how else would Lee know what was said days later?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

More Video, shows crime scene and computer reenactment

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida-boy-killed-neighborhood-watch-seeks-arrest-044537742.html

 

[Fennis]

More Video, shows crime scene and computer reenactment

http://news.yahoo.co...-044537742.html

Unless a reenactment is done by the Taiwanese its pretty much worthless.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Some excerpts that I found interesting from the Neighborhood Watch Manual: USAonWatch - National Neighborhood Watch Program. The manual was created by the National Sheriffs Association in cooperation with the Justice department. "The opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this document are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the U.S. Department of Justice."

Citizen Patrols

Many NW groups choose to use Citizen Patrols on foot or in vehicles to keep their community safe. Patrols may be effective for your group, but you should discuss it with your law enforcement liaison. Two or more individuals, often from the same family, patrol during designated tours of duty and may detect suspicious activity not noticed by stationary observers. Lost children, stranded motorists, stray dogs, damaged street signs or traffic signals, wandering cattle, and automobile accidents are often discovered by citizen patrols.

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous. Patrol members can be equipped for their duties. For example, flashlights or searchlights are necessary for night patrols. Many mobile patrols use cell phones or two-way radios to contact a citizen-manned base station, which in turn contacts law enforcement officials when necessary. Remember your partnerships and ask for donations from local businesses.

REMEMBER: Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Mr Crump said race was 'the 600lb elephant in the room.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113068/He-gun-Trayvon-Skittles-Family-demands-911-tapes-local-Neighbourhood-Watch-captain-shot-unarmed-teen-STILL-charged.html#ixzz1oqv3Wxs7That is one small elephant.

 

[cstu]

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Mr Crump said race was 'the 600lb elephant in the room.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113068/He-gun-Trayvon-Skittles-Family-demands-911-tapes-local-Neighbourhood-Watch-captain-shot-unarmed-teen-STILL-charged.html#ixzz1oqv3Wxs7

That is one small elephant.

 

[cstu]

So I think I solved the mystery as to why he wasn't immediately arrested. The Florida legislation from a few years ago is even worse than I thought (emphasis mine).

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil

6 action for justifiable use of force.--\

7 (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s.

8 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such

9 force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action

10 for the use of such force, unless the person against whom

11 force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s.

12 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her

13 official duties and the officer identified himself or herself

14 in accordance with any applicable law or the person using

15 force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was

16 a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the

17 term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in

18 custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

19 (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard

20 procedures for investigating the use of force as described in

21 subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for

22 using force unless it determines that there is probable cause

23 that the force that was used was unlawful.

So although traditionally, self-defense is an affirmative defense, here the Florida legislature has created a law whereby the doctrine that you have the right to defend your property extends to wherever you have a legal place to be. Additionally, one is allowed to use deadly force if one reasonably believes it's necessary to prevent one's own death, great bodily harm, or the commission of a forcible felony. And there's a presumption of said reasonable belief if someone is trying to enter your home or occupied car. And then once someone exercises that use of deadly force, the justice department is prohibited from moving forward with any sort of prosecution until they have probable cause that your affirmative defense is wrong.

Thanks for busting out the statute. Goes a long way to explaining the legal justification non-arrest.

Possible Witnesses Emerge in the Trayvon Martin Death

...

More information about what happened that night has been released by Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr., both from the incident reports of the police responding to the 911 calls, and in statements to the press.

Zimmerman saw Trayvon walking through the gated community around 7:15 and called Sanford police on a non-emergency number to report a suspicious person. He was told that the police would dispatch an officer, and to keep his distance from the individual. Before the officer arrived, the department got at least six 911 calls from residents bordering the walkway where the confrontation occurred, reporting two men fighting. On at least one of the calls, the fight and the fatal gunshot can be heard in the background, according to the police chief.

...

Though said incident report has been released, I haven't seen it yet. This is the first time I've noticed that the call Zimmerman placed was to a "non-emergency number" - not to 911. Wonder what the timeline is from there. The police may be establishing why they didn't treat it as an emergency until the 911 calls started coming in. If so, that strongly suggests that there was no crime being reported on the initial call, as many have presumed.

I'd really like to hear the 911 calls, with timestamps, but they're purportedly not releasing any of them to the public because they don't want to taint a potential jury pool.

Yes, every time a black guy is reported to be walking in a white neighborhood they should call immediately call the SWAT team.

 

[DiStefano]

Zimmerman look black to me.

Maybe this is another instance of black on black crime?

 

[glock]

Some excerpts that I found interesting from the Neighborhood Watch Manual: USAonWatch - National Neighborhood Watch Program. The manual was created by the National Sheriffs Association in cooperation with the Justice department. "The opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this document are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the U.S. Department of Justice."

Citizen Patrols

Many NW groups choose to use Citizen Patrols on foot or in vehicles to keep their community safe. Patrols may be effective for your group, but you should discuss it with your law enforcement liaison. Two or more individuals, often from the same family, patrol during designated tours of duty and may detect suspicious activity not noticed by stationary observers. Lost children, stranded motorists, stray dogs, damaged street signs or traffic signals, wandering cattle, and automobile accidents are often discovered by citizen patrols.

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous. Patrol members can be equipped for their duties. For example, flashlights or searchlights are necessary for night patrols. Many mobile patrols use cell phones or two-way radios to contact a citizen-manned base station, which in turn contacts law enforcement officials when necessary. Remember your partnerships and ask for donations from local businesses.

REMEMBER: Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.

Thaaank youuu.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Zimmerman look black to me. Maybe this is another instance of black on black crime?

Black ? really? i was thinking Hispanic at best

 

[fatness]

Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out

Link to this sequence of events?

 

[DiStefano]

Zimmerman look black to me. Maybe this is another instance of black on black crime?

Black ? really? i was thinking Hispanic at best

Al it takes is one drop, and you can qualify for affirmative action.

 

[jonessed]

Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out

Link to this sequence of events?

Check the witness. They fought on the grass for awhile before the gun went off and the witness never saw the gun. Plus, how do you get from exiting the car with a gun drawn to fighting on the grass without the gun going off before then?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out

Link to this sequence of events?

Check the witness. They fought on the grass for awhile before the gun went off and the witness never saw the gun. Plus, how do you get from exiting the car with a gun drawn to fighting on the grass without the gun going off before then?

I don't think he exited the car with the gun drawn. The news story mentioned he had a concealed carry permit.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

 

[humpback]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

At this point, I think we can say he didn't stand down.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

The lack of common sense and empathy in this thread is mind-boggling. Zimmerman was judge ,jury and executioner which is far less than what these cops did with the perp and you seem ok with that...wow.

 

[jamny]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

How do you know the bolded is a fact.

 

[Christo]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Did you tell your friend that Zimmerman was taken into custody and went to the police station to be interviewed before being released or did you just say he wasn't arrested?

 

[Christo]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

The fact that he was taken into custody and taken to the police station to be interviewed before being released. Just saying he wasn't arrested doesn't explain what happened.

 

[humpback]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

The lack of common sense and empathy in this thread is mind-boggling. Zimmerman was judge ,jury and executioner which is far less than what these cops did with the perp and you seem ok with that...wow.

So he's not in Florida, gotcha. I don't want to go back and forth with you, but this isn't about common sense or empathy, it's about the law. Based on what was posted, it seems like they are following the law and continuing the investigation, something your friend wouldn't know about, even after hearing your version of the events.I have plenty of empathy here- it's a tragic situation, I feel awful for the boy and his family. I can't imagine what they're going through, and I'd be asking the same questions they are if it had been my family member killed. I think Zimmerman certainly appears to be in the wrong, and when the dust settles I hope the facts come out and he's prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Unlike many people in here, I'm just not willing to play judge and jury without the facts. Literally, people are speaking as if they are eye-witnesses, making assumptions about things that no one knows yet.

I think it would be wise for people to heed the advice of the writer of the BET article linked earlier:

What we don't know:

What happened that Feb. 26 night.

Why a young Black man with everything to live for was shot and killed by a stranger?

Was this racial profiling, vigilante justice gone wrong, or a horrific accident?

Why did Zimmerman ignore police orders and continue to follow Martin?

Why did the two fight?

There are many questions and few answers. No one should rush to judgement because there are many unknowns in this case and only two people know what really happened. One is dead and the other is currently free.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You guys solve the case yet?

Christo making people look stupid in here.

 

[Clifford]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

The lack of common sense and empathy in this thread is mind-boggling. Zimmerman was judge ,jury and executioner which is far less than what these cops did with the perp and you seem ok with that...wow.

Yep, wow.

 

[DiStefano]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

The lack of common sense and empathy in this thread is mind-boggling. Zimmerman was judge ,jury and executioner which is far less than what these cops did with the perp and you seem ok with that...wow.

Yep, wow.

Agreed. The depths of depravity to which the FFA has sunk in wanting to wait for the complete story is mind boggling. Dare I say Hitlerian?

 

[Clifford]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

 

[Christo]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

 

[Clifford]

No, I actually meant exactly what I typed. I was not talking about the completely needless physical altercation the shooter caused by overstepping his bounds as watch captain and ignoring express orders from both the police he talked to at the scene, and the posted guidelines for neighborhood watches. I was talking about the completely fictional scenarios like the peeping Tom one that peppered the thread before that info was revealed.

Christo, your obsession with defending the shooter goes way beyond professional interest. Why is it that you are first to respond to any post that in any way sides with the victim?

Do you believe that the kid deserved to get shot?

Do you believe that Zimmerman did the right thing by calling 911?

 

[TexanFan02]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

How do you know?

 

[Fennis]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

The lack of common sense and empathy in this thread is mind-boggling. Zimmerman was judge ,jury and executioner which is far less than what these cops did with the perp and you seem ok with that...wow.

Yep, wow.

Agreed. The depths of depravity to which the FFA has sunk in wanting to wait for the complete story is mind boggling. Dare I say Hitlerian?

 

[Clifford]

I'd really like to hear whether Christo thinks calling 911 was the right thing to do.

 

[Fennis]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

If thats what happened is it legal for ZImmerman to shoot the kid?

 

[Christo]

No, I actually meant exactly what I typed. I was not talking about the completely needless physical altercation the shooter caused by overstepping his bounds as watch captain and ignoring express orders from both the police he talked to at the scene, and the posted guidelines for neighborhood watches. I was talking about the completely fictional scenarios like the peeping Tom one that peppered the thread before that info was revealed.Christo, your obsession with defending the shooter goes way beyond professional interest. Why is it that you are first to respond to any post that in any way sides with the victim? Do you believe that the kid deserved to get shot?Do you believe that Zimmerman did the right thing by calling 911?

My "obsession" with defending the shooter comes from you and others who without any critical thought want him in prison for murder. The fact that Zimmerman is white and Martin is black are not relevant for the purposes of determining whether Zimmerman murdered Martin. The fact that Zimmerman didn't follow some set of guidelines posted in this thread is not relevant for the purposes of determining whether Zimmerman murdered Martin. The fact that Zimmerman didn't follow the police dispatcher's advice not to approach Martin is not relevant. What matters is what happened after Zimmerman got out of the car.My belief whether Martin deserved to get shot is irrelevant. As is yours. Because neither of us know what happened between the time Zimmerman got out of the car and the witness said he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him and Zimmerman calling for help. As much as you think the police instructions matter, they don't. While staying out of it might have been the prudent thing, Zimmerman, as a private citizen, had the right to approach Martin and speak to him. The issue is how did he approach him, what did he say and what did he do. And neither of us know.Why are you so quick to jump to the conclusion that it was murder without knowing the facts?

 

[Christo]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

How do you know?

A witness has given a statement to that effect. There are links in the thread.

 

[Christo]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

If thats what happened is it legal for ZImmerman to shoot the kid?

It's certainly relevant to what charge should be brought and whether he has a viable self-defense claim.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who`s been a cop for over 30 years, i explained the case to him and he said that Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene for probable cause, even if he claimed self defense the fact that the dead kid had no weapon and based on the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation...and he said the fact that he was told by the police to stand down and didnt is HUGE. H e also said that it would then be left up to the judge to decide the next move(bail or personal recognizance ). A boy was shot to death for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the only source of information your friend had on this case was your explanation?

you have an unarmed dead 17 yo kid killed by a 27 yo man with a gun and the perp admitted shooting the kid even after he was told to wait for police...what more do you need sherlock holmes?

Is he a cop in Florida? I thought based on the info. posted above by Mattias that it seems like they followed the Florida law here? Oh, and we don't know that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and we don't know that he didn't "stand down". Both are probably true, but we can't say that for sure yet.

The lack of common sense and empathy in this thread is mind-boggling. Zimmerman was judge ,jury and executioner which is far less than what these cops did with the perp and you seem ok with that...wow.

Yep, wow.

Agreed. The depths of depravity to which the FFA has sunk in wanting to wait for the complete story is mind boggling. Dare I say Hitlerian?

 

[humpback]

I'd really like to hear whether Christo thinks calling 911 was the right thing to do.

Yes, I think after hearing fighting/gunshot(s) calling 911 is the appropriate thing to do.

 

[TexanFan02]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

How do you know?

A witness has given a statement to that effect. There are links in the thread.

Did the witness see that happening, or did he hear something and you're inferring the rest of it? Or maybe you're relying on Zimmerman's statements?

 

[Christo]

I'd really like to hear whether Christo thinks calling 911 was the right thing to do.

Yes, I think after hearing fighting/gunshot(s) calling 911 is the appropriate thing to do.

I think he's talking about Zimmerman. But Zimmerman didn't call 911, he called a non-emergency number. I'm not clear what he's asking when he asks if I think it "was the right thing to do."

 

[Billy Bats]

The fact that Zimmerman didn't follow the police dispatcher's advice not to approach Martin is not relevant.

How is that not relevant? He disobeyed a direct command from police, which in turn led to the death of an innocent civilian. I'm sure a lawyer would have a field day in court with that fact alone. Is disobeying police instruction an offense?

 

[humpback]

I'd really like to hear whether Christo thinks calling 911 was the right thing to do.

Yes, I think after hearing fighting/gunshot(s) calling 911 is the appropriate thing to do.

I think he's talking about Zimmerman. But Zimmerman didn't call 911, he called a non-emergency number. I'm not clear what he's asking when he asks if I think it "was the right thing to do."

I'm assuming he's talking about Zimmerman as well, which is why I posted that- he's mixing up the very few facts we even have in this case.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

When the truth comes out some of you are going to look very foolish, I just don't know which ones.

 

[Christo]

It's creating the imaginary scenarios where the kid did something to deserve it that gets me, especially the one painting him as a peeping tom. What are your thoughts on that particular activity?

Do you mean like being on top of Zimmerman and beating him while Zimmerman yelled for help?That one's not made up, BTW.

How do you know?

A witness has given a statement to that effect. There are links in the thread.

Did the witness see that happening, or did he hear something and you're inferring the rest of it? Or maybe you're relying on Zimmerman's statements?

Like I said, there are links in this thread. The witness said he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Martin on top of him. Martin was beating Zimmerman and Zimmerman was yelling for help. The witness went inside his house and went upstairs. Before he got upstairs he heard a gun shot. When he made it upstairs he looked out the window and saw Martin laying on the ground. An officer has said when he got to the scene he saw that the back of Zimmerman's shirt was wet and had grass clippings stuck to it. Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of the head.