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Question: has this been verified? I've heard these screams on TV, but only for a short instance. If they truly went on for 40 seconds (which I admit to being unaware of) then it upsets everything I thought I knew about this case. Does anyone know if the 40 seconds part is true?
Another turning point?!?
I believe those are the same screams independently verified by two experts to be those of a young man, and not Zimmerman. What does it matter how long the screaming was for? The whole thing lasted only a bit longer than that.
I thought it was Martin. But if it's Martin, it doesn't make sense that it would last for 40 seconds. Not with the injuries that Zimmerman sustained. If it was Martin, it should only be for a few seconds, once the gun is pulled out.
At the risk of sounding stupid, it could be. Honestly. But I can't find verification.
Link? I've never seen an expert say it wasn't Zimmerman. People have tried to argue that it couldn't be Zimmerman because he was older than Martin. But have you heard Zimmerman speak? He isn't exactly James Earl Jones.Another thing. Lots of people hold themselves out as "experts." The only ones who will matter are the ones the court will accept as experts.
why is it not plausable that treyvon is screaming while hes wrestling around with zimmerman? I cant get past the fact that the screams stopped the second the shot was fired. Zimmerman claimed that he didnt even think he shot treyvon , he said he jumped up and started to subdue trey. Why would he stop screaming for help if he thought his attacker was still alive?Dead silence after the shot...dead silence. The witnesses testified that zimmerman seemed calm and complacent right after the shooting, how can you go from screaming bloody murder to being calm , like nothing happened , and calmly tell people to call 911? That doesnt add up.Lets not forget zimmy claims he was being suffocated while he was screaming...at no point are those screams muffled
I don't see a contradiction and looked at those three sentences briefly for you, but will stipulate out of apathy. I don't confuse apathy with cynicism, and consider the incurious sheep following their media shepherd the obvious, by definition, source of apathy on topic. Also self employed, but my biz shuts down in the heat of summer freeing me up for hours on this topic. My approach has been the opposite of apathetic and as usual I think you're firing an ignorant ####shot. I've learned more about criminal law in the past month than I have in 50 years.Sorry your schedule doesn't permit you to answer the same question I took a bit of time addressing for you. Seems you could have done so rather than post vague comments. Also sorry to call you out, but your contribution to this thread has been antagonistic insults based on ignorance of the details. I avoided you until you addressed me directly because engaging seemed fruitless given your hostile hit and run approach.
What's just as likely as him already having the gun out?
The two experts he's referring two were soundly refuted by true experts. Not to sound cynical but one was selling his new voice software and the other was by his own admission making an educated guess. The Orlando Sentinel is seriously biased, btw. The FBI has used the best equipment available and concluded no conclusions can be drawn from the recordings.
It IS plausible that Treyvon was the one screaming. For a few seconds. But if he's supposed to be screaming for 40 seconds, it becomes far less plausible, at least to me. I'm trying to think about this logically, and the idea that Martin could scream in terror for 40 seconds at the same time as he is the one punching Zimmerman (as seems to be apparent from Zimmerman's injuries) just doesn't fly very well.
How many times do you think Zimmerman was punched by Martin?
If it can ever be proven in a court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Martin is the one screaming, then I'm pretty sure Zimmerman will be convicted of murder.
I don't know. Zimmerman's got a broken nose and two cuts to the back of the head. So I would presume at least a few times. What's your theory?
Really? You're supporting your post with an article that reads:
And another that says it's "likely" not Zimmerman.
Did your mystery "true experts" refute all three? I thought your schtick was to sound cynical; why stop now?
That was a serious question. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Read the articles, you fool.
Read both articles. 3 of them said it wasn't Zimmerman, 1 said there was no way to be sure.
Of course you do. What is this conversation about?That was a serious question. I have no idea what you are talking about.
No they didn't.
It is plausible, BK. It just doesn't seem likely. "Help me! I broke his nose! Help Help Help, I'm pounding his head to the ground!"
Many others have difficulty with the gunshot ending the screaming. It is not unusual for cops to yell and yell and yell until they finally snap off a round. The booming report of a gun has a silencing quality that makes yelling unnecessary. Besides George no longer needed help so why keep yelling?I'm not convinced the last scream was George and understand they both could have yelled during the confrontation. So far the prosecution has offered nothing regarding the various experts Neo is citing. If they do, and if they are convincing, my opinion on this matter will change faster than Tims. When I stopped posting a couple weeks ago it was after saying the yells are the most important evidence. If it is Tray, he was murdered. If it was George, then he defended himself. I don't care if one is a drug dealing thug and the other pathological creep. None of that matters. If nothing can be proved from the recordings we go to the forensics and witnesses before we go to George, imo. Currently, in the midst of State discovery, that information favors self defense, also imo.One says that. And even he can't be sure without a tape of Martin. The others use phrases like "huge chance," "not likely" and "hard to scientifically say anything definitive with audio like this."
Yes. The FBI are the true experts. I was being cynical, you dolt. You really don't know what that word means do you?
1. I missed it, thread moving to fast for my pedantics. What was the ?2. Yes.
There has been no legitimate verification of the voice. Does anyone believe 'Martin was screaming for an extended period of time while he was beating in Zimmerman's face. $100 says it was Zimmerman.
It is plausible, BK. It just doesn't seem likely. "Help me! I broke his nose! Help Help Help, I'm pounding his head to the ground!"
I'm not convinced the last scream was George and understand they both could have yelled during the confrontation. So far the prosecution has offered nothing regarding the various experts Neo is citing. If they do, and if they are convincing, my opinion on this matter will change faster than Tims. When I stopped posting a couple weeks ago it was after saying the yells are the most important evidence. If it is Tray, he was murdered. If it was George, then he defended himself. I don't care if one is a drug dealing thug and the other pathological creep. None of that matters. If nothing can be proved from the recordings we go to the forensics and witnesses before we go to George, imo. Currently, in the midst of State discovery, that information favors self defense, also imo.
I'm coming around to your way of thinking, CC. I'm still not altogether convinced that if it was Zimmerman screaming that means it was clearly self-defense. If he was screaming for 40 seconds, it probably was, though.
jon mx asserted that the screaming lasted for at least 40 seconds. If that is the case, then I seriously doubt it was Martin screaming, and that would change my own thinking about this case. If the screaming lasted for 40 seconds, instead of a few seconds, then I'm pretty sure it was Zimmerman, and I'm pretty sure he acted in self-defense. I can't see a reasonable scenario where Martin screams for 40 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmHRbD0AgY0If that is the best quality they have I severely doubt they are going to positively ID it. If it turns out it was Martin screaming for 40 seconds then I'd have to understand the circumstances as you noted, someone points a gun at you, you will not be yelling for 40 seconds.
That doesn't tell me how long the screaming lasted. We are agreed that if it's for 40 seconds, it's almost certainly not Martin.
So it doesn't make a difference.
The 911 caller called because she heard screaming. There is screaming from the beginning of the call till past the 40 second mark. Pretty sure all in all there was a good two minutes of screaming.
Before the first break, there are only 3-4 seconds of screams.After the first break, there are 10-11 seconds of conversation, with about 7 seconds of screams, before the gunshot. Perhaps there is more, but not on the youtube you sent me. At most 15 seconds of screams, which is a big difference from 40. I can see Martin screaming for 15 seconds with a gun pointed at him. I can't see him screaming for 40 seconds with a gun pointed at him. Big difference.
Where do you get this? How long did the entire confrontation last?
yeah let's ignore the best evidence. The circumstantial evidence already gives an extremely good clue who it was.
It is plausible, BK. It just doesn't seem likely. "Help me! I broke his nose! Help Help Help, I'm pounding his head to the ground!"
I'm not convinced the last scream was George and understand they both could have yelled during the confrontation. So far the prosecution has offered nothing regarding the various experts Neo is citing. If they do, and if they are convincing, my opinion on this matter will change faster than Tims. When I stopped posting a couple weeks ago it was after saying the yells are the most important evidence. If it is Tray, he was murdered. If it was George, then he defended himself. I don't care if one is a drug dealing thug and the other pathological creep. None of that matters. If nothing can be proved from the recordings we go to the forensics and witnesses before we go to George, imo. Currently, in the midst of State discovery, that information favors self defense, also imo.
seriously
I don't really subscribe to any theory, I just know based on experience and the science that Zimmerman's wounds weren't severe in the least. We went over this before about the cadaver studies and amount of force required to break a nose. I am as unimpressed with Zimmerman's story about what went down as I am with the physical evidence of his so-called near death experience, or with Zimmerman himself, for that matter.Hypothetically, it's possible that Zimmerman spotted Martin at the convenience store and followed him back onto the property before he even made the call. He then could have proceeded to pursue Martin and shoot him only to then go all Tyler Durden on himself, just to make it look legit. This is absurd, of course; and every bit as plausible as anything we've heard from the Zimmerman's.
look at the other youtube in the post you replied to - it is the actual 911 call, they were behind her house fighting and you can hear the yells throughout the call - the only edit was to hide her name/address from the public.
You are not a cynic. Antisthenes farts in your general direction.Yes. The FBI are the true experts. I was being cynical, you dolt. You really don't know what that word means do you?
I didnt ignore it, but if you cant identify who it is as JOJO said, what does the judge/jurors do with it in court?
Agree 100% which is why I think what I do about this case. The screams ARE problematic, though.
This is a good thread to find out who all the crazys are.
