Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[jonessed]

So if someone is on top of you, pummeling you, trying to break your skull on the concrete....you're just supposed to take it?

According to some people in this thread, yes.

Link?

SMASHING HIS SKULL OVER AND OVER INTO THE CEMENT = 2 tiny lacerations that required ZERO stitches.....then the tussle moved to the nice soft grass...so he survived the concrete now he had to try and survive the grass and supposed suffocation . So lets see...he didnt die from the punch to the nose ...he didnt die from the cement...and he didnt die from being smothered....so hmmm...OH YA ...trey was gonna shoot him with his own gun...boy he really covered all the bases didnt he?

 

[Statorama]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

 

[financewonk]

So if someone is on top of you, pummeling you, trying to break your skull on the concrete....you're just supposed to take it?

According to some people in this thread, yes.

Link?

SMASHING HIS SKULL OVER AND OVER INTO THE CEMENT = 2 tiny lacerations that required ZERO stitches.....then the tussle moved to the nice soft grass...so he survived the concrete now he had to try and survive the grass and supposed suffocation . So lets see...he didnt die from the punch to the nose ...he didnt die from the cement...and he didnt die from being smothered....so hmmm...OH YA ...trey was gonna shoot him with his own gun...boy he really covered all the bases didnt he?

Yes, there's a number of stories that GZ could have cooked up to justify shooting TM, and there's no way to disprove them. That's what makes this case particularly difficult for the prosecution, and the jury. I mean, here we have a case where a person likely committed a serious crime, and the state has what's perhaps an unreasonable burden to overcome to get a conviction. At least that's how many people see it.

 

[3C's]

I just want people to put themselves into GZ's shoes "Quantum Leap" style for a minute. There's a big athletic football player on top of you punching you repeatedly in the face (breaking your nose in fact) and it's shoot him or die yourself.....what do you do? I believe that even you bunch of ######s would act to save your lives.

BTW The question isn't "would you have been following him in the first place".

Edit: Wow, even the medical term is blocked. Well played Bryant.

 

[Statorama]

What's a warning point? And why do I have some?

 

[3C's]

What's a warning point? And why do I have some?

Thou shalt never take Bryant's name in vein. Nor attempt to circumvent the language filter.

 

[squistion]

What's a warning point? And why do I have some?

You are late to the party...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=680272&hl=%2Bwarning+%2Bpoints

 

[Mario Kart]

It's 8:15 Florida time. Do you know where your children are, Floridians?

And, are they expecting this to be in tonight?

 

[jon_mx]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

It is social justice. They are sending Zimmerman to prison to atone for their guilty conscience.

 

[lod01]

Jury dinner has arrived, recess for an hour, we'll see if they come back with specific question after dinner.

What did they order?

mexican

Good sign for GZ

Unless they blow it out their ### after they eat it.

 

[squistion]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

Simply asking for justice is not being bloodthirsty.

 

[timschochet]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

My understanding is that 30 is the maximum sentence- 9 to 12 years is more likely. I can live with that, not with 30. As for the bloodthirsty lot, blame the Florida GOP- they're the ones who wanted mandatory minimum sentencing for using guns.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

My understanding is that 30 is the maximum sentence- 9 to 12 years is more likely. I can live with that, not with 30.As for the bloodthirsty lot, blame the Florida GOP- they're the ones who wanted mandatory minimum sentencing for using guns.

poor zimmy...he wont have his trusty gun to save him in prison when he gets into an altercation

 

[ArbyMelt]

I'm still confused as to why the jury would ask such a general question to the Judge. Seriously, what answer did they expect to receive from that question?

 

[Mark Davis]

If GZ is convicted, should Florida go back now and charge murder 2 or manslaughter in all those other cases that the possibility of stand your ground existed in? Somehow I think those guys never see a courtroom. I don't know what Zimmerman felt that night, and for all of us speculating here there isn't one of us that knows for sure. That to me is why there is reasonable doubt. He may well have committed the act of manslaughter, but proving it is something else. I think that's why the case wasn't initially charged and also why those other documented cases never saw a courtroom. This particular case was brought to placate the media and masses they whipped up in the initial coverage.

 

[Guest]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

It is social justice. They are sending Zimmerman to prison to atone for their guilty conscience.

White um Hispanic um White Hispanic guilt.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

What do the real attorneys think about these latest developments? Are the jurors leaning guilty, or not guilty?

They have ruled out Second Degree and there is one hold out for Manslaughter with the other 5 at Not Guilty

Think you're full of baloney.

Deduction suggests this might be the case. If I had to guess, they felt that self defense eliminated Murder 2 and the jurors need to review the definition of manslaughter to see if that could be ruled out as well. I think they'll acquit.

If its self defense, it's lawful. There's no way self defense would only eliminate murder 2.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

All that will matter is what those 6 woman think and they have far more I insight into this case than anyone on the outside looking in.

If anything has been clearly established in this thread is that insight into this case is inversely related to how much of the trial one has seen.

 

[greenroom]

I just want people to put themselves into GZ's shoes "Quantum Leap" style for a minute. There's a big athletic football player on top of you punching you repeatedly in the face (breaking your nose in fact) and it's shoot him or die yourself.....what do you do? I believe that even you bunch of ######s would act to save your lives.

BTW The question isn't "would you have been following him in the first place".

Edit: Wow, even the medical term is blocked. Well played Bryant.

So know Martin is a big athletic football player.. really He played football when he was younger, but no where is the top athletic you are making him out to be. And if you really want to "Quantum Leap" how about going all the way back to where you initially "profiled" Martin

 

[parasaurolophus]

I just want people to put themselves into GZ's shoes "Quantum Leap" style for a minute. There's a big athletic football player on top of you punching you repeatedly in the face (breaking your nose in fact) and it's shoot him or die yourself.....what do you do? I believe that even you bunch of ######s would act to save your lives.

BTW The question isn't "would you have been following him in the first place".

Edit: Wow, even the medical term is blocked. Well played Bryant.

So know Martin is a big athletic football player.. really He played football when he was younger, but no where is the top athletic you are making him out to be. And if you really want to "Quantum Leap" how about going all the way back to where you initially "profiled" Martin

was he profiled because he was a thug or was he a thug because he was profiled?

 

[Todem]

What do the real attorneys think about these latest developments? Are the jurors leaning guilty, or not guilty?

They have ruled out Second Degree and there is one hold out for Manslaughter with the other 5 at Not Guilty

This is where I'm at as well...

Same here, One juror is holding out......it will be a beat down in the deliberation room. Either she agrees with the other 5...or we may have a hung jury.

Seriously.

I do not see 5 other jurors caving to one if that indeed is what is going on.

The suspense is pretty amazing though.

 

[Todem]

All that will matter is what those 6 woman think and they have far more I insight into this case than anyone on the outside looking in.

If anything has been clearly established in this thread is that insight into this case is inversely related to how much of the trial one has seen.

Agreed.

I watched pretty much the entire trial.

If I were a juror.....I vote not guilty by reason of self defense. The State did not prove murder at all. Too much maybe, what if and imagine.

Nothing that told me he intently went out with anger and malice and had any intention of murdering this young man.

A series of bad decisions happened....Zimmerman in hindsight made a bad decision to go on foot and look for Martin.....but that is the only bad decision in my mind he made.

What happened after he got out of his car (which a civilian not the police said he did not need to do) is unknown. But common sense tells me he felt his life threatened. Martin got into a fight with man who had a legally concealed weapon.

Sucks.

But that is what happened.

I can't convict this guy. No matter what I feel about him which too many people in here let get in the way of interpreting the law as written in the state of Florida. He had a right to defend himself and by all accounts of the evidence that is exactly what he did. There was not one scratch on Martin.

Not one.

He was doing all assaulting.

Zimmerman finished it as he felt he would suffer serious bodily injury. That is his legal right? Or is he supposed to get beaten to a pulp and possibly suffer permanent damage or death.

I don't understand what is so hard to comprehend.

Is there some degree of negligence on Zimmerman's part? Yeah....I can see that. I can understand that. But the facts that have been presented do not warrant he be convicted of murder. The facts of the case show Martin.....caused his own death...and it was bad luck...this guy had a concealed weapon.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

It's unfathomable to me, given the facts of this case, that at least half of you want to see this guy go to prison for 30 years (manslaughter).

You are a freaking bloodthirsty lot.

He should be getting one year for every year that Trayvon is dead.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What was their question?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

So I am seeing posts that GZ was the aggressor?

Based on what evidence? Following him? Did Martin have one mark on him that suggested Zimmerman landed anything let alone throw a single punch etc.

The only evidence that was presented that was concrete was TM on top of GZ pounding him. A busted nose, cuts on GZ's head.

So who was the aggressor when it comes to why TM is dead. He jumped a guy who had a concealed weapon.

That is why he is dead.

Tragedy yes.

Murder no.

Come on people.

Also Tim an Nancy Grace should hook up.

While Zimmerman's statements are part of the evidence, the only witness to take the stand with any insight on the start of the skirmish testified in such a manner to suggest Zimmerman touched Martin first.

Wrong as well, Jenna L. stated she heard two people at the top of the T:

blue car:

red car:

blue car:

DiDi said Martin spoke first.

Zimmerman stated it went down like this:

Martin: Do you have a problem?

Zimmerman: No I don't have a problem

Zimmerman: reaches into his left front pocket and looks down

Martin: says "Well you do now" as Zimmerman is looking up and is punched

Without hearing the exact words, Jenna L confirms Zimmerman's account of how it "went down"

There is nothing in DiDi's testimony that states she HEARD Zimmerman TOUCH Martin first.

She did change her testimony from hearing a bump and the phone going dead to hearing a bump and then hearing a little "Get Off, Get Off", during this same interview with the changed testimony she was on tape asking BDLR "Do you want that too?" Which she vehemently denied in court. Defense wanted to play the tape and State won the objection via sidebar to NOT play the tape in front of the jury. They had to excuse the jury, play the tape where DiDi clearly says "Do you want that too", to which she later admits she did say that (the jury was now present) but gives no explanation as to WHY she said that, essentially destroying any credibility she had in front of the jury.

Confirms it all !

Yep it does !!

 

[financewonk]

What was their question?

Will you please pass the guacamole

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

There was not one scratch on Martin.Not one.

Say what now?

 

[Mark Davis]

What was their question?

Can you give us the updates on what's going down on Big Brother?

 

[towney]

Why does everyone keep saying it's one juror holding out, how do they not know it's not 2 or 3.

 

[Mario Kart]

What was their question?

It was a question regarding the instructions about manslaughter. However, the court sent the jury back a question of their own for them to clarify what they, the jury, meant by their initial question. I have not read anything after this to-and-fro though.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is if you believe the prosecution, why would GZ mount TM and not just shoot him right away? If he really was going to shoot him he would do that standing up.

There were no signs of injury to TM other then the gun shot.

Seems to me that GZ story makes more sense then what prosecution painted.

Because GZ is a criminal mastermind.

Not one person in this thread supporting Trayvon Martin's parents will give you a straight answer.

 

[DaVinci]

What happened after he got out of his car (which a civilian not the police said he did not need to do) is unknown.

Zimmerman was already out of the car and following Martin when the dispatcher told him he didn't have to do that. Per the transcript, he immediately stopped the pursuit.

 

[Todem]

There was not one scratch on Martin.

Not one.

Say what now?

Did he have any physical injuries other than the single gun shot wound? Do have any signs that he was getting beat up...and signs that he could have possibly been screaming for help because of a beat down?

I mean we had an eye witness testify......whom the state called...a state witness mind you cleary say he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman raining down blows....he believed he was hearing Zimmerman screaming for help....told them to stop fighting....ran inside to call 911......gun shot.

That is the entire case....right there...been saying this since the testimony was given.

So what are you talking about.

I would love to know what you are speculating.

Because everyone in the world knows Zimmerman shot him.

What needs to be proven is why he shot him. And the state contends he shot him with anger and malice.

Zimmerman claimed self defense, the evidence presented did not prove anything the state contended. And more clearly backed up Zimmermans claim of self defense.

If you don't agree....who cares.

 

[timschochet]

There was not one scratch on Martin.

Not one.

Say what now?

Just the bullet hole.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

What was their question?

Can you give us the updates on what's going down on Big Brother?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So I am seeing posts that GZ was the aggressor?

Based on what evidence? Following him? Did Martin have one mark on him that suggested Zimmerman landed anything let alone throw a single punch etc.

The only evidence that was presented that was concrete was TM on top of GZ pounding him. A busted nose, cuts on GZ's head.

So who was the aggressor when it comes to why TM is dead. He jumped a guy who had a concealed weapon.

That is why he is dead.

Tragedy yes.

Murder no.

Come on people.

Also Tim an Nancy Grace should hook up.

While Zimmerman's statements are part of the evidence, the only witness to take the stand with any insight on the start of the skirmish testified in such a manner to suggest Zimmerman touched Martin first.

Wrong as well, Jenna L. stated she heard two people at the top of the T:

blue car:

red car:

blue car:

DiDi said Martin spoke first.

Zimmerman stated it went down like this:

Martin: Do you have a problem?

Zimmerman: No I don't have a problem

Zimmerman: reaches into his left front pocket and looks down

Martin: says "Well you do now" as Zimmerman is looking up and is punched

Without hearing the exact words, Jenna L confirms Zimmerman's account of how it "went down"

There is nothing in DiDi's testimony that states she HEARD Zimmerman TOUCH Martin first.

She did change her testimony from hearing a bump and the phone going dead to hearing a bump and then hearing a little "Get Off, Get Off", during this same interview with the changed testimony she was on tape asking BDLR "Do you want that too?" Which she vehemently denied in court. Defense wanted to play the tape and State won the objection via sidebar to NOT play the tape in front of the jury. They had to excuse the jury, play the tape where DiDi clearly says "Do you want that too", to which she later admits she did say that (the jury was now present) but gives no explanation as to WHY she said that, essentially destroying any credibility she had in front of the jury.

Confirms it all !

Yep it does !!

 

[Todem]

Why does everyone keep saying it's one juror holding out, how do they not know it's not 2 or 3.

It might be more than one. Who I knows?

This smells like female emotion.......they need to focus on the law and did the state prove murder. Not worry what the backlash will be with a guilty verdict...from the insane media, and political propaganda machine we have.

Just interpret the law. If there is any inkling of reasonable doubt about the states case......not guilty.

This is not easy for them. I can't imagine the pressure right now.

 

[timschochet]

What happened after he got out of his car (which a civilian not the police said he did not need to do) is unknown.

Zimmerman was already out of the car and following Martin when the dispatcher told him he didn't have to do that. Per the transcript, he immediately stopped the pursuit.

Which is an obvious lie, as the prosecutor pointed out. Two minutes after that conversation the fight started. If he had immediately stopped the pursuit, he would have been back in his car in about 30 seconds or less. But he didn't go back to his car, he followed Trayvon.

 

[Todem]

There was not one scratch on Martin.

Not one.

Say what now?

Just the bullet hole.

Yeah we know Tim. Murder.

We get it.

Even more proof of who's life was in danger.

 

[financewonk]

GZ is a criminal mastermind.

He's guilty as all hell, but if he gets off it's the most brilliantly orchestrated crime/ defense since...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbaW0HZ_Qy8

 

[Todem]

What happened after he got out of his car (which a civilian not the police said he did not need to do) is unknown.

Zimmerman was already out of the car and following Martin when the dispatcher told him he didn't have to do that. Per the transcript, he immediately stopped the pursuit.

Which is an obvious lie, as the prosecutor pointed out. Two minutes after that conversation the fight started. If he had immediately stopped the pursuit, he would have been back in his car in about 30 seconds or less. But he didn't go back to his car, he followed Trayvon.

So he followed him.

Is that illegal?

 

[jon_mx]

What happened after he got out of his car (which a civilian not the police said he did not need to do) is unknown.

Zimmerman was already out of the car and following Martin when the dispatcher told him he didn't have to do that. Per the transcript, he immediately stopped the pursuit.

Which is an obvious lie, as the prosecutor pointed out. Two minutes after that conversation the fight started. If he had immediately stopped the pursuit, he would have been back in his car in about 30 seconds or less. But he didn't go back to his car, he followed Trayvon.

So he followed him.

Is that illegal?

According to the story, Zimmerman was looking for a street sign. Zimmerman is no more of a proven liar than any of the other witnesses in this case who have all changed their story to some degree.

 

[The Commish]

So....what's happened this afternoon? Miss anything good or SSDD???

 

[Mario Kart]

9:30 Florida time. As far as I know the jury is still at the court. I have not seen anything that they have been sent home yet.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

How long does the jury have to deliberate before all 6 are on the same cycle?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Mark O'Mara: "Would you consider those screams to be life threatening screams?"

Jenna Lauer: "Yeah."

 

[CurlyNight]

6 women jury, 5 with kids--- asking about manslaughter... I think they won't let him walk. They will probably feel he should be held accountable. In back of their minds they know this is a huge case and what will it say if they let him walk? If Trayvon was white and GZ black, most likely he would have been arrested right away and probably convicted- as the prosecution pointed out. Jury doesn't know with manslaughter there are 10 years attached to it. I'm guessing they will give him manslaughter as a "compromise" and be surprised how long he will get.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

They'll probably wait until Monday so potential rioters will be at work.

 

[CurlyNight]

9:30 Florida time. As far as I know the jury is still at the court. I have not seen anything that they have been sent home yet.

They are still deliberating. The jury watch clock is going on HLN. Most think that they are close if they are not taking a lunch and dinner break, and they are still going.. They may all get on the same page and then sleep on it to see if everyone still feels the same.

 

[Underachievers]

They'll probably wait until Monday so potential rioters will be at work.

The "potential rioters" are probably not the type that work.