Fluoride in City/Public Water. Thoughts? (2 Viewers)

[eoMMan]

Please don’t make this a political thread…

Fluoride in our public water is hot topic where I’m at in Florida. Some counties still have it and some places have either removed it already or are getting ready to. The “against fluoride” side claims lower IQ in children along with the lack of choice of not consuming it. The “for fluoride” side cites the dental benefits that then flow to more serious possible heart/cardiovascular issues.

Thoughts?

I’m all for it (think there’s more benefits than negatives) but some people down here are very against it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Do people still drink tap water?

 

[General Malaise]

When I moved to the PNW from Texas and went to my first dental visit, the VERY first thing the dentist said to me was "So, you're not from here, are you?". Figured it was my accent or something but no....no he said "I can tell you grew up with fluoride in your water. Your teeth are in great shape".

Pretty telling.

 

[General Malaise]

Do people still drink tap water?

Absolutely all I drink. Why on earth would I not?

 

[djmich]

Please don’t make this a political thread…

Fluoride in our public water is hot topic where I’m at in Florida. Some counties still have it and some places have either removed it already or are getting ready to. The “against fluoride” side claims lower IQ in children along with the lack of choice of not consuming it. The “for fluoride” side cites the dental benefits that then flow to more serious possible heart/cardiovascular issues.

Thoughts?

I’m all for it (think there’s more benefits than negatives) but some people down here are very against it.

I'd probably prefer just water in my water, but it seems like for kids that don't brush their teeth there is risk in removing.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Do people still drink tap water?

Absolutely all I drink. Why on earth would I not?

Yeah I do drink it also but through a filter. I guess that doesn’t filter out fluorides though.

 

[Scoresman]

I haven’t looked at the science of all this yet but my decision would be based on that.

This reeks of another example of people rejecting science for “reasons”, which continues to be really sad.

 

[djmich]

I haven’t looked at the science of all this yet but my decision would be based on that.

This reeks of another example of people rejecting science for “reasons”, which continues to be really sad.

The reasons often tend to be because there are trade-offs in any decision, and the risk profiles for individuals are often different across a population. It's sad the default belief is often that science means everything can be distilled into a simple binary good or bad.

 

[Zow]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

 

[Zow]

I had a 7th grade classmate who did a Science Fair project on this very issue. My understanding is that there are no health issues re: public water with fluoride.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I had a 7th grade classmate who did a Science Fair project on this very issue. My understanding is that there are no health issues re: public water with fluoride.

Found this article from 2018 so not a part of the impending kerfuffle but it does offer some information for further review:

Fluoride: Risks, uses, and side effects

Fluoride is found naturally in soil, water, and foods. It is added to water to help prevent tooth decay, but not everyone agrees with this. Find out more.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[MTskibum]

I am very much pro flouride in drinking water, however in places that have excess natural floride I wish that the EPA would set a safer upper limit to the concentration allowed.

The recommended is 0.7 ppm, the safe limit is 1.5ppm, however the EPA limit in places that have excess natural occurring flouride is 4 ppm. These places need to remove flouride to get their water down to a safe limit, but the limit is not low enough.

I wish the EPA regulated our drinking water better in practically every way though, this is just one small critique.

 

[belljr]

We've have fluoride in our water for I think 50 years.

I equate this to the gas stove study that was opposite "sides"

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

lower IQ in children

oh no wonder I'm dumb

 

[Joe Schmo]

lower IQ in children

oh no wonder I'm dumb

yeah, that's what did it

 

[General Malaise]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

Scottsdale tap water was some of the worst I've ever tasted. Coming out of the tap hot was.....something.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yeah, just because your area has the best tap water ever doesn't mean everyone does. Like a lot of stuff on this board location is everything.

 

[Zow]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

Scottsdale tap water was some of the worst I've ever tasted. Coming out of the tap hot was.....something.

Yeah it's much better a couple of hours north.

 

[Instinctive]

Plain English podcast did this as a topic with Emily Oster. Seems like the benefits far outweigh the (probably not even real, not proven by any studies) "downsides."

 

[Mister CIA]

A quick perusal of some studies seem to indicate that the biggest benefits to flouridated water are reaped from improved dental health outcomes in children. They might be outmatched in a policy battle with old people in Florida.

 

[The General]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

Yep. Tap water in some parts of the country is pretty gnarly.

 

[jhib]

Please don’t make this a political thread…

Fluoride in our public water is hot topic where I’m at in Florida. Some counties still have it and some places have either removed it already or are getting ready to. The “against fluoride” side claims lower IQ in children along with the lack of choice of not consuming it. The “for fluoride” side cites the dental benefits that then flow to more serious possible heart/cardiovascular issues.

Thoughts?

I’m all for it (think there’s more benefits than negatives) but some people down here are very against it.

Some quick politics mentioned (because that's one reason it's again a hot topic), but this has a quick breakdown with plenty of links for more depth: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/some-data-on-fluoride/

One thing he notes is that regarding the IQ issue, in one of the main studies anti-fluoridation people cite, the "higher IQ" group was the one that was actually getting fluoride in normal fluoridated water program amounts. People just don't seem to understand that the dose is important with these kinds of things.

 

[Zow]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.

Have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?

 

[Scoresman]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

It’s in the same category as vaccines, flat earth, whatever. People see something on social media or hear it on Joe Rogan and suddenly they know better than the leagues of scientists and studies that say/show otherwise.

 

[nirad3]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

Yep. Tap water in some parts of the country is pretty gnarly.

I don't travel for work as much of some of the FFA'ers, but I get out of state about once a month and I am super happy that, when I stay at Marriott properties, that being in their "Elite" program means I get a couple of free bottles of water at check-in. I hate having to even use a little bit to take my nightly medications with nasty hotel tap water in most locations.

Our local tap water here in SoCal is pretty bad. I've become a water snob and don't really even like the "filtered" water that comes out of my fridge.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

I think its one of those "do your own research" lunacies.

 

[The General]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

Yep. Tap water in some parts of the country is pretty gnarly.

I don't travel for work as much of some of the FFA'ers, but I get out of state about once a month and I am super happy that, when I stay at Marriott properties, that being in their "Elite" program means I get a couple of free bottles of water at check-in. I hate having to even use a little bit to take my nightly medications with nasty hotel tap water in most locations.

Our local tap water here in SoCal is pretty bad. I've become a water snob and don't really even like the "filtered" water that comes out of my fridge.

I try not to drink out of those low grade plastic bottles (another thing to be paranoid about ) but when I am in certain parts of the country (looking at you Texas) the water is just gross and will hoard those bottles for the stay,

 

[Zow]

So... I shouldn't have dared ask. Got it.

 

[Max Power]

Do people still drink tap water?

Depends on where you live. I'm fortunate now to live in an area where the tap water tastes good and is healthy. We have a nice water table. I didn't drink it in the area I lived before.

Yep. Tap water in some parts of the country is pretty gnarly.

I don't travel for work as much of some of the FFA'ers, but I get out of state about once a month and I am super happy that, when I stay at Marriott properties, that being in their "Elite" program means I get a couple of free bottles of water at check-in. I hate having to even use a little bit to take my nightly medications with nasty hotel tap water in most locations.

Our local tap water here in SoCal is pretty bad. I've become a water snob and don't really even like the "filtered" water that comes out of my fridge.

I try not to drink out of those low grade plastic bottles (another thing to be paranoid about ) but when I am in certain parts of the country (looking at you Texas) the water is just gross and will hoard those bottles for the stay,

Nanoplastics scare me. They are finding them in testicles now.

 

[General Malaise]

Plain English podcast did this as a topic with Emily Oster. Seems like the benefits far outweigh the (probably not even real, not proven by any studies) "downsides."

Well.....yeah. We weren't dumber 50+ years ago when decisions were made to use it in tap water.

I'd like to see the credentials, education and experience of the opposition on this one. Being loud doesn't make you qualified.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

It’s in the same category as vaccines, flat earth, whatever. People see something on social media or hear it on Joe Rogan and suddenly they know better than the leagues of scientists and studies that say/show otherwise.

FWIW, I am pretty sure people have been talking about fluoride conspiracy theories for decades

 

[ShamrockPride]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

Same thing about people wanting to choose what they put in their bodies.

There is a secondary (smaller), more conspiracy minded school of thought to it as well, but that's separate from the "my body my choice" people.

 

[ChiefD]

My uncle is a dentist and is strongly for having flouride in water. Our town up here is putting it up to a vote in the spring because the building where they store the chemicals needs to be rebuilt.

Our house is on a well but I’m gonna vote for flouride.

 

[TripItUp]

I've never drank tap water. Don't trust it.

Bottled spring water for all of my adult life. And my teeth are great because I take care of them.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Derek Thompson had a podcast a couple of weeks back on the topic, focusing on the public health messaging angle around it and a few other timely topics. I won't link it here because I'm sure some would consider it political, but I found it pretty interesting and compelling.

 

[Don Quixote]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

It’s in the same category as vaccines, flat earth, whatever. People see something on social media or hear it on Joe Rogan and suddenly they know better than the leagues of scientists and studies that say/show otherwise.

FWIW, I am pretty sure people have been talking about fluoride conspiracy theories for decades

Andy already quoted Dr. Strangelove, or I’d do the same.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I had a 7th grade classmate who did a Science Fair project on this very issue. My understanding is that there are no health issues re: public water with fluoride.

Pretty much this. All the studies suggesting toxicity to the developing brain have flawed methodology, with many confounders.

 

[Chemical X]

it’s a trap

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

What’s not political now?

 

[GoBirds]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

What’s not political now?

FBG duh

 

[McBokonon]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

It’s in the same category as vaccines, flat earth, whatever. People see something on social media or hear it on Joe Rogan and suddenly they know better than the leagues of scientists and studies that say/show otherwise.

FWIW, I am pretty sure people have been talking about fluoride conspiracy theories for decades

Andy already quoted Dr. Strangelove, or I’d do the same.

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

One group wants to discuss weather or not fluoride in the water is beneficial or not.

The other group wants to take and use that argument, call people conspiracy theorists and call them stupid.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

It’s in the same category as vaccines, flat earth, whatever. People see something on social media or hear it on Joe Rogan and suddenly they know better than the leagues of scientists and studies that say/show otherwise.

Partially true but…

Most people who listen to ROGAN!!!!! don’t hear it from ROGAN!!!!! , they hear it from professionals that go on the Joe ROGAN!!!!! show.

Your point would have full merit if there hasnt been countless examples of our scientists and medical professionals being paid off to push products.

People no longer blindly trust main stream scientists/doctors/media/politicians because those groups have done it to themselves, not anyone else’s fault.


ETA - The irony of blaming Joe Rogan - a complete media spin- isn’t lost on you?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Plain English podcast did this as a topic with Emily Oster. Seems like the benefits far outweigh the (probably not even real, not proven by any studies) "downsides."

Well.....yeah. We weren't dumber 50+ years ago when decisions were made to use it in tap water.

I'd like to see the credentials, education and experience of the opposition on this one. Being loud doesn't make you qualified.

I would like to see the facts only.


FTR -
Im for fluoride in the water (provided it’s below recommended levels)

 

[Instinctive]

Plain English podcast did this as a topic with Emily Oster. Seems like the benefits far outweigh the (probably not even real, not proven by any studies) "downsides."

Well.....yeah. We weren't dumber 50+ years ago when decisions were made to use it in tap water.

I'd like to see the credentials, education and experience of the opposition on this one. Being loud doesn't make you qualified.

I would like to see the facts only.

You might like Oster then. She got her start writing a book on pregnancy that literally just evaluates any actual scientific studies on common questions. She's an economist so everything is super fact oriented and then she tries to tally up cost/benefits.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I truly didn't know that fluoride in the water was actual political. Can I dare ask why?

What’s not political now?

FBG duh

Oh, it still is - just more subtle before threads get shut down.

 

[Major]

Do people still drink tap water?

Absolutely all I drink. Why on earth would I not?

Yeah I do drink it also but through a filter. I guess that doesn’t filter out fluorides though.

Yep, standard water filters like Brita, etc don't remove Flouride or really anything substantial. They just make awful tap water tastes better with charcoals. Have to ante up for premium filters if you want your tap water fluoride free.

 

[thecatch]

Plain English podcast did this as a topic with Emily Oster. Seems like the benefits far outweigh the (probably not even real, not proven by any studies) "downsides."

Well.....yeah. We weren't dumber 50+ years ago when decisions were made to use it in tap water.

I'd like to see the credentials, education and experience of the opposition on this one. Being loud doesn't make you qualified.

The episode is worth a listen. I don't remember all the details because it's been a couple weeks, but the anti-fluoride argument isn't a totally insane conspiracy theory. IIRC several European countries have eliminated it in the water supply with no impact on kids' dental health because they get enough from other sources like toothpaste. The takeaway for Oster was that there's some benefit and there's no evidence that the amounts added to water supplies weren't anywhere near high enough to negatively impact people (there is a concentration that will do that, though), so there's no reason to stop treating drinking water with it.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Fluoride in water has both pros and cons, including:

• Pros
  • Prevents cavities: Fluoride strengthens tooth enamel and reduces the risk of cavities. The CDC lists fluoride use as one of the top 10 most important public health measures of the 20th century.
    
    
    
  • Benefits children: Children who drink fluoridated water from birth have teeth that are permanently resistant to decay.
    
    
• • Cons
    • • Too much fluoride can be dangerous: Consuming large amounts of fluoride can lead to serious health issues, such as:
        
        
        • • Dental fluorosis: This condition causes white streaks or brown stains on teeth, creates pits in teeth, or even breaks the enamel of the teeth.
            
            
          • Skeletal fluorosis: This condition occurs when fluoride builds up in the bones, resulting in joint stiffness and pain, and can also lead to weak bones or fractures in older adults.
            
            
      • Ethical concerns: Some people feel that adding fluoride to the water supply is an unethical form of mass medication.
        
        
      • May affect brain development in infants: Some evidence suggests that even controlled levels of fluoride in water may affect brain development in infants.
        
        
  • Other considerations
    • • Fluoride works best when it's applied topically, such as a fluoride treatment in general dentistry.
        
        
      • If your drinking water is not fluoridated, you can ask your dentist, family doctor, or pediatrician if your child should take an oral fluoride supplement.