GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Perhaps Leak can upstage the other vertically challenged former Florida Gator QB now on the Bears. You know.. the one that singlehandedly gave the Super Bowl to the Colts. 
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For what it's worth... Chris Leak signed with the Bears (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
- Start date
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I love my Gators, but I am not a Leak fan. I don't think he'll make the team.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
I must have missed Orton throwing more TDs than INTs in '05.And I don't recall him winning any playoff games either.I realize that Orton went to college in Indiana, and you have a Colts logo as your avatar. But you do realize that Rex Grossman grew up in Indiana I hope.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
There's no I in team.There's no I in alltogether.Perhaps Leak can upstage the other vertically challenged former Florida Gator QB now on the Bears. You know.. the one that singlehandedly gave the Super Bowl to the Colts.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Yes, I've seen both play. When I spoke of numbers, I meant win-loss.I see Grossman as nothing special. Not that Orton is, but I prefer Orton.
From the Bears website:
PRO CAREER: Established Bears rookie records for games started, wins, pass attempts, completions, yards and tied for TDs while leading Chicago to an 8-game win streak (10/16-12/4), the 2nd-most wins by a rookie QB since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 (Ben Roethlisberger, 13 in 2004)… His 10 wins set an NFL record for victories by a rookie QB drafted in the fourth round or lower since the common draft was instituted in 1967… Third rookie QB in franchise history to start a season opener (Johnny Lujack, 1948; Zeke Bratkowski, 1954), making him the seventh different opening-day QB for the Bears in as many years… The NFL’s lowest-drafted QB to start a season opener since 2001 (Chris Weinke, CAR) after rising to the starting spot on Chicago’s depth chart 2 weeks before opening day after beginning training camp as the No. 3 QB.
CAREER TRANSACTIONS: Entered NFL as a fourth-round selection (106th overall) by Chicago in the 2005 NFL Draft… Signed 4-year contract with Chicago (7/24/05). SIGNED THROUGH 2008
2005 SEASON: Started 15 games in rookie season helping Chicago to a 10-5 record in those contests en route to the division title… Set Bears rookie records with 15 starts, 10 wins, 368 pass attempts, 190 completions, 1,869 yards and 9 TD passes (tie)… First Bears QB to start more than 13 games in a season since Erik Kramer started all 16 in 1995… Started Games 1-14, 16; DNP in Game 15… Completed 15-of-28 passes for 141 with 1 INT in NFL debut at WASH (9/11)… Earned first NFL win after completing 14-of-21 passes for 150 yards with 1 TD vs. DET (9/18)… Connected on 16-of-26 pass attempts for 117 yards with 1 TD at CLE (10/9)… Tossed first 2-TD game of NFL career, both to TE Desmond Clark, completing 16-of-25 passes for 117 yards vs. MIN (10/16)… Completed 15-of-29 passes for 145 yards with 1 TD vs. BALT (10/23) to earn Diet Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Week honors… Season-high 230 passing yards on 17-of-31 passing with 1 TD at DET (10/30)… Connected on 15-of-26 pass attempts vs. CAR (11/20) for 136 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT… Tallied 207 passing yards on 17-of-35 attempts at PIT (12/11)… DNP vs. CAR (1/15/06) in Divisional Playoff. GAMES PLAYED-STARTED: 15-15
Tough to play from the bench.
All Grossman is from going to the bench is Lovie waking up one day and realizing what a mistake he is making.
You can support Grossman all you want, but Orton lead the Bears to the playoffs as a ROOKIE. Grossman gets the endorsement from Lovie that is the difference between the two.
mlball77
Footballguy
I don't love Grossman, but Orton did not lead the Bears to all of those wins. The defense did. Orton just didn't blow the game (something Grossman showed he could do, unfortunately). Overall, Grossman's upside is much higher, imo... but his downside is a bit lower as well. However, the offense opens up much more with Grossman at QB and makes the team better than when Orton was playing.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
But we've never seen Orton play in his 3rd year like Grossman did last season. I hope for the Bears fans out there that Grossman proves me wrong, otherwise, back to the drawing board.
Franchise Playa
Footballguy
Grossman is only 3rd year by timeframe only this was his first year as a starter so technically Rex led the Bears to wins as well in his first year like Orton. Im not comparing Rex to Farve but people have to give him some time this was only his first year and I recall Farve looked equally as misguided as Rex....If he struggles in year 2 like year 1 then there should be some cause for concern.
flapgreen
Footballguy
As he should be. Orton sucks badly.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
So did Kurt Warner when he was bagging groceries. It's all about the opportunity. Just ask Thomas Jones.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Orton played and stunk up the place. He's been riding the bench every since. There's a reason for that. How is that anything like Warner?
pizzatyme
Footballguy
You do realize he was a rookie starter and went 10-5 and lead the Bears to the playoffs, right?Comparison for opportunity purposes only.
flapgreen
Footballguy
No. I didn't realize that.You do realize he was a rookie starter and went 10-5 and lead the Bears to the playoffs, right?Comparison for opportunity purposes only.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
W-L records aren't entirely on the QB. Orton getting his picture taken partying during his rookie season probably didn't sit too well with Bears management either. Send me a memo when Orton has a 100+ QB rating game, then we can have another discussion. Rex did it several times last year - 2nd most in the NFL.
Also... the Bears signed Notre Dame RB Darius Walker to a free agent contract late last night. Nice signing...
Also... the Bears signed Notre Dame RB Darius Walker to a free agent contract late last night. Nice signing...
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
LOL!!! He 'lead' the Bears to the playoffs? Actually Thomas Jones and the Bears defense led them to the playoffs. When last seen, Orton was pissing down his pants leg against the Packers, then the Steelers and then the Falcons and then the ViQueens in '05.Numbers don't lie: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/418071/gamelogs/2005You do realize he was a rookie starter and went 10-5 and lead the Bears to the playoffs, right?Comparison for opportunity purposes only.Orton played and stunk up the place. He's been riding the bench every since. There's a reason for that. How is that anything like Warner?
Take your "Orton's won-loss record" and shove it up your giggy.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
You're the guy that brought the 'record' thing into this discussion.I think I'll keep this conversation based upon fact, and not some odd ill-conceived myth.I think it's time for more beddy-byetyme - not pizzatyme.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
I did bring up the record. I think the running game and defense had as much to do with both QBs records. Therefore, IMO, I prefer Orton to Grossman.The difference between the 2 IMO is who has the endorsement from Lovie.Any QB could have stunk it up in the SB as badly as Grossman.Maybe Grossman improves this year and this conversation goes away. Maybe it doesn't.Chris Leak signed as a FA, for what, reps in camp?
corpcow
Footballguy
Agree - more importantly, less mistakes. It's nice if you can put up a big game of 44 pts, but with a defense like that sometimes it's better just to not throw 4 INTs. Don't cancel out your single best strength!
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Leak will have a very difficult time making the team. I could see him making the p squad though.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
I also like how you side-stepped the fact that Orton never had a (0) ZERO rating as a QB.
H.K.
Footballguy
Chris Leak
From NFL Draft Consultant Conor Dowley
Position: Quarterback
School: Florida
Status: Senior
Height: 6-0
Weight: 210
40-Yard Dash: 4.80 (EST)
Positives:
Leak probably has the best overall arm in the college game, with the rare gift of being able to put the ball fifty yards downfield on a spot. He, like Notre Dame's Brady Quinn, has above-average athleticism at the quarterback position, but only uses it to emphasize his other abilities as a QB, also much like Quinn. Leak has a natural feel for pressure and where the blitz is coming from, and will adjust what he does in the pocket accordingly.
He's also had to become a strict student of the game, as he's wound up learning three different offenses in four years. 2005 and 2006 saw Urban Meyers' spread offense, but in 2004 he absolutely thrived in a pro-style offense, putting him on the NFL map. His experiences with varied offenses will only help him adjust to the pro game.
Negatives:
Leak is a bit small and sleight for the pros, at just 6' and 210 pounds. He also seems to have occasional issues reading defenses, and as a result, he often appears more satisfied to take a check down than a receiver with single coverage down the seam. This may be a result of how many offenses he's learned in a short time, but it is concerning. Interceptions were a concern early in his collegiate career, with a combined 23 picks in his freshman and sophomore seasons.
Overview:
Leak has a lot of promise to him. If handled correctly, he could be a huge contributor in the NFL, in a similar vein to Philadelphia Eagles' starter Donovan McNabb. However, there's also a high chance of him being the next Akili Smith. His size will be a big stumbling block to get over, but if he can adjust to the NFL game quickly, particularly to the speed of it, his arm and natural talent will take over.
My take:
Leak is one of the most prolific passers in the history of the SEC, yet he dealt with a lot of garbage during his career from fans and coaches and handled it like a man. All the kid needs is a chance and he'll get the job done.
From NFL Draft Consultant Conor Dowley
Position: Quarterback
School: Florida
Status: Senior
Height: 6-0
Weight: 210
40-Yard Dash: 4.80 (EST)
Positives:
Leak probably has the best overall arm in the college game, with the rare gift of being able to put the ball fifty yards downfield on a spot. He, like Notre Dame's Brady Quinn, has above-average athleticism at the quarterback position, but only uses it to emphasize his other abilities as a QB, also much like Quinn. Leak has a natural feel for pressure and where the blitz is coming from, and will adjust what he does in the pocket accordingly.
He's also had to become a strict student of the game, as he's wound up learning three different offenses in four years. 2005 and 2006 saw Urban Meyers' spread offense, but in 2004 he absolutely thrived in a pro-style offense, putting him on the NFL map. His experiences with varied offenses will only help him adjust to the pro game.
Negatives:
Leak is a bit small and sleight for the pros, at just 6' and 210 pounds. He also seems to have occasional issues reading defenses, and as a result, he often appears more satisfied to take a check down than a receiver with single coverage down the seam. This may be a result of how many offenses he's learned in a short time, but it is concerning. Interceptions were a concern early in his collegiate career, with a combined 23 picks in his freshman and sophomore seasons.
Overview:
Leak has a lot of promise to him. If handled correctly, he could be a huge contributor in the NFL, in a similar vein to Philadelphia Eagles' starter Donovan McNabb. However, there's also a high chance of him being the next Akili Smith. His size will be a big stumbling block to get over, but if he can adjust to the NFL game quickly, particularly to the speed of it, his arm and natural talent will take over.
My take:
Leak is one of the most prolific passers in the history of the SEC, yet he dealt with a lot of garbage during his career from fans and coaches and handled it like a man. All the kid needs is a chance and he'll get the job done.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
A quick FYI -
Grossman is having the best offseason he has ever had as a Bear, by far. By Far.
There is a reason Lovie has "faith" in him.
And yes, I do view Rex as something special.
And I like the back-ups too.
Leak not so much. He MAY make the P squad. But I doubt it.
Grossman is having the best offseason he has ever had as a Bear, by far. By Far.
There is a reason Lovie has "faith" in him.
And yes, I do view Rex as something special.
And I like the back-ups too.
Leak not so much. He MAY make the P squad. But I doubt it.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I also don't get the Bears faithful hate for Rex. My God, the Bears have had Henry Burris, Kordell Stewart, Johnathon Quinn, Craig Krenzel, PT Willis, Mirer, Steve Stenstrom, Moses Moreno, Chad Hutchinson and Cade freakin McNown driving the boat for over a decade. Grossman is a STUD compared to the trash that's blown on the filed for the past 18 years. The only question I have in his ability to become a upper echelon NFL QB is his height. The dude can't see over the line. It's also bogus to put the SB loss at his feet. That D was simply not that great the second half of the year and in the Super Bowl as well. I'm still amazed at how good the O played last year and think any Bears fan is praying we at least get that same production again.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
He's no Aaron Rodgers.Chris Leak. He's a nobody.
SeveredHorseHeads
Footballguy
Just stop. Please.
redman
Footballguy
There is, however, an "i" in "interception".There's no I in team.There's no I in alltogether.Perhaps Leak can upstage the other vertically challenged former Florida Gator QB now on the Bears. You know.. the one that singlehandedly gave the Super Bowl to the Colts.
H.K.
Footballguy
Leak rewrote Florida's career records as a senior:He finished his career as the record holder with 11,213 yards passing, topping Danny Wuerffel (10,875 yards, 1993-96).Chris Leak. He's a nobody.
Only David Greene of Georgia (11,528 yards, 2001-04) threw for more yards in Southeastern Conference history.
Leak's 895 completions of 1,458 passes broke the old school all-time records of 722 of 1,202 by Shane Matthews (1989-92).
His 895 completions broke the SEC record that was held by Peyton Manning of Tennessee (863, 1994-97).
His 88 touchdown passes rank second in school annals behind Wuerffel's 114 (1993-96) and rank third in conference history, topped only by Wuerffel and Manning (89).
Was responsible for 101 total touchdowns during his career (13 rushing, 88 passing), ranking tied for third in Southeastern Conference annals with Manning (12 rushing, 89 passing) behind Wuerffel (122- 8 rushing, 114 passing, 1993-96) and Eli Manning of Mississippi (118- 8 rushing, 110 passing, 2000-03).
Leak's 11,350 yards in total offense set school and conference career records, topping the old SEC mark of 11,270 yards by Greene of Georgia (minus-258 rushing, 11,528 passing, 2001-04).
Leak put up some better numbers than Peyton Manning in his career, he did it against arguably the toughest conference in the country, and won a national championship in the process. Also, he played in three different offensive schemes in his short time with Florida. The biggest knock on Leak is his size, which is similar to Drew Brees. He did well academically and is a team player. Not bad for a nobody.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Rodgers is just above a nobody....barely. Favre forever!!!!
Delusions Of Adequacy
Footballguy
H.K.
Footballguy
Orton had an abysmal 5.1 YPA and only threw 9 TD's vs. 13 picks in 15 games during 2005.Grossman has a career YPA of 6.7 and has more TD's than INT's in his career.Its quite a stretch to say Orton is the best option in Chicago based upon his performance.
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WampusCat43
Footballguy
So he's being compared to David Greene, Danny Wuerffel, Shane Matthews, and the Mannings. Check.Leak rewrote Florida's career records as a senior:He finished his career as the record holder with 11,213 yards passing, topping Danny Wuerffel (10,875 yards, 1993-96).Chris Leak. He's a nobody.
Only David Greene of Georgia (11,528 yards, 2001-04) threw for more yards in Southeastern Conference history.
Leak's 895 completions of 1,458 passes broke the old school all-time records of 722 of 1,202 by Shane Matthews (1989-92).
His 895 completions broke the SEC record that was held by Peyton Manning of Tennessee (863, 1994-97).
His 88 touchdown passes rank second in school annals behind Wuerffel's 114 (1993-96) and rank third in conference history, topped only by Wuerffel and Manning (89).
Was responsible for 101 total touchdowns during his career (13 rushing, 88 passing), ranking tied for third in Southeastern Conference annals with Manning (12 rushing, 89 passing) behind Wuerffel (122- 8 rushing, 114 passing, 1993-96) and Eli Manning of Mississippi (118- 8 rushing, 110 passing, 2000-03).
Leak's 11,350 yards in total offense set school and conference career records, topping the old SEC mark of 11,270 yards by Greene of Georgia (minus-258 rushing, 11,528 passing, 2001-04).
Leak put up some better numbers than Peyton Manning in his career, he did it against arguably the toughest conference in the country, and won a national championship in the process. Also, he played in three different offensive schemes in his short time with Florida. The biggest knock on Leak is his size, which is similar to Drew Brees. He did well academically and is a team player. Not bad for a nobody.
NorrisB
Footballguy
H.K.
Footballguy
...and every QB that ever played in the SEC.
redman
Footballguy
I'm certainly no particular fan of his, but you're comparing Orton's rookie season, without a WR of the caliber of Muhammed, to Grossman's fourth season, and third in the same offense? Doesn't that seem like a bit of a reach to you?
SeveredHorseHeads
Footballguy
How is this possibly a good posting? Orton was awful and posted terrible numbers.
BostonSportsGuy
Footballguy
They keep adding these noodle-armed QBs to make Grossman look better. Talk about window dressing.How is this possibly a good posting? Orton was awful and posted terrible numbers.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I feel bad for Rex. Guy gets absolutely no credit and all the blame. Getting to the Superbowl had nothing to do with him posting more points than any QB since Kramer, but losing the Superbowl did. unreal.
As someone who watched every game Chris Leak ever played as a Gator I feel I am qualified to give this assessment - Chris Leak will NEVER be a starting NFL QB. Ever. ever. seriously.
He had a difficult time with every offense he was placed in. He was a 4 year starter also (compared to Wuerfel and and Matthews who MAY have started 2 seasons each). But most important, when he has to put his head down and get that tough yard, time and time again he would crumple and fall down short.
IMO the Gators won last year IN SPITE of Leak because we had great special teams and a very good defense. The offense sucked.
4 year starter - makes a big difference in your stats HK.
H.K.
Footballguy
You're right, but because Grossman's sample size is so small for his first three seasons (3 games max), its difficult to draw on any other info. FWIW, Grossman's worst YPA is 6.1 from his rookie year, and Orton's was far worse. It's a difficult comparison to make based on numbers, with better WR's and experience definitely giving Grossman an advantage, but the coaches selected Rex as their guy based upon watching both play on a daily basis, and their professional lives depend on him. I am not a fan of Rex at all, but he did enough to earn the #1 seed and win the NFCC game in his first full season as a starter. Orton is not the answer, and the Bears front office knows this.I'm certainly no particular fan of his, but you're comparing Orton's rookie season, without a WR of the caliber of Muhammed, to Grossman's fourth season, and third in the same offense? Doesn't that seem like a bit of a reach to you?Orton had an abysmal 5.1 YPA and only threw 9 TD's vs. 13 picks in 15 games during 2005.Grossman has a career YPA of 6.7 and has more TD's than INT's in his career.Its quite a stretch to say Orton is the best option in Chicago based upon his performance.
H.K.
Footballguy
I don't think Leak will be the second coming, but I do think he can help a team in a back-up role.In defense of Leak, the offense under Meyer is not suited to his skill set. He is not a runner. As for being a four year starter, I see your point. However, it also shows that he was good enough to start for one of the better teams in the country for four years, despite all the changes that occurred while he was at Florida. Like it or not, he has records because he was pretty damn good, if he wasn't, he wouldn't have them. IF Leak is in the right system and has some time to get acclimated, he can help a team and be in the league for awhile.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
No way can a guy as short as Leak with his slow, irregular delivery make it in the NFL.
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