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Forcing Employee to pay back salary (1 Viewer)

Fruitbat

Fruitbat

Footballguy
Anyone with any experience on an employer forcing an employee to pay back salary?

Here is my wife's situation

  • Physician working in a hospital. Has been there 15 years, through a ton of management crap and understaffing. She has worked her tail off (well beyond a reasonable definition of a FTE) especially in past years.
  • There is some sort of agreement as far as how many "shifts" per year her salaried position is required. How in stone that is, I am not sure.
  • The schedule is often a mess. There are only 3-4 physicians in her discipline there. They often have to cover for each other for life reasons. They also contract with a Locums company to fill in gaps.
  • a "shift" is a nebulous thing. For example, If you work days (8am-6pm) practically 100% of the time you are there past 6. She often doesn't get home until 8/9pm.
  • Additionally, they often cover each other when crap hits the fan. When her partner was up all night on the night shift, my wife often will go in the morning on a day off to help out and give the night person some relief.
  • Due to all the above, this all becomes difficult to track with exact accuracy.
Company is now coming back to them, and saying for last fiscal year my wife was short shifts, and now we have to pay back a percentage of that fiscal year's salary. Its possible they are right. It would be really hard to prove otherwise. But what a horrendously awful thing to ask of an employee that has been so loyal and helped hold the unit together over the years.
 
No time cards or punch clock or whatever seems silly, but yeah, I can't see having to pay back wages like that.
If anything, they'd have to PROVE they are correct, right?
 
Fruitbat said:
Anyone with any experience on an employer forcing an employee to pay back salary?

Here is my wife's situation

  • Physician working in a hospital. Has been there 15 years, through a ton of management crap and understaffing. She has worked her tail off (well beyond a reasonable definition of a FTE) especially in past years.
  • There is some sort of agreement as far as how many "shifts" per year her salaried position is required. How in stone that is, I am not sure.
  • The schedule is often a mess. There are only 3-4 physicians in her discipline there. They often have to cover for each other for life reasons. They also contract with a Locums company to fill in gaps.
  • a "shift" is a nebulous thing. For example, If you work days (8am-6pm) practically 100% of the time you are there past 6. She often doesn't get home until 8/9pm.
  • Additionally, they often cover each other when crap hits the fan. When her partner was up all night on the night shift, my wife often will go in the morning on a day off to help out and give the night person some relief.
  • Due to all the above, this all becomes difficult to track with exact accuracy.
Company is now coming back to them, and saying for last fiscal year my wife was short shifts, and now we have to pay back a percentage of that fiscal year's salary. Its possible they are right. It would be really hard to prove otherwise. But what a horrendously awful thing to ask of an employee that has been so loyal and helped hold the unit together over the years.
Click to expand...
This isn't anything new. Sorry she is going through this.

The extra time she stayed will be irrelevant for this. Since she's contracted to work a certain number of shifts for her salary, that's what they'll look at.

It will all depend on what her contract says and what she's expected to do for 1 FTE. My guess is you'll likely need to get a contract lawyer to help with this if she doesn't think they have it correct, especially if she actually worked additional shifts than she was scheduled.

Either way, it also means she needs to start looking for a new job as of yesterday. And she needs to track her shifts diligently moving forward, especially if going in when not scheduled.
 
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Hire an employment lawyer. Every state has its own rules. Every employment agreement is different. My guess is the agmt says it goes to an arbitrator and the company has already picked the state of arbitration in the agmt.

I wouldn’t give back a penny or let them withhold it.
Probably say no and put my resume out. And let them take the next step. Not sure if that’s an option for her.
 
Review old emails and texts, log ins to the hospital computer to show she was there as well as paperwork she filled out on those "extra" days to demonstrate that she worked the "extra" shifts. Put those "extra" shifts into a spread sheet or calendar and see if that gets her up to her limits. If it does, provide it to the hospital and, in a snarky "How dare you insinuate that I'm not putting in my time for the hospital" letter, threaten to hire an attorney to seek the back pay that SHE is owed.

If they dig in and refuse to pay, she can consider quitting, refuse to work extra shifts in the future, and/or document every minute of extra time she spends working there in anticipation of re-negotiating her next contract. Docs are in high demand and she shouldn't have to put up with this garbage.
 
Also, not sure what kind of relationship she has with her partners, but if it's good, especially since it's a small group, she should try and find out if the same thing is happening to them.

And, she should absolutely start ending her shifts at the specified time, as long as it doesn't interfere with patient care. Let them hire locums to fill in the gaps.
 
Also, I would think the schedule itself would be easy to check.

Who does the scheduling?
Was she scheduled short? If so, why?
Did she miss shifts?
 
bcat01 said:
Have them provide the detail for every shift they say she worked. Then try and find shifts she knows she worked that are not on their list.
Click to expand...
Sounds like she’s added on hours before/after shifts. She’s probably salary exempt, which means she wouldn’t be compensated for any of those extra hours if she went in early or stayed late.

Pretty lame thing for them to do, but it’s a business. If there’s something in her contract, and I’m sure there is, that she has to work a minimum amount of shifts to earn that salary then they’re probably SOL.
 
Does your wife want to stay there and who is her boss?

No way I would pay back a dime. If she wants to stay, she should go to her boss and tell him/her what’s going on* and ask for their help in fixing it. And then if that help is not forthcoming, hire a lawyer and wait for the company to sue and/or fire her if that’s their response to her not “paying them back”

* in that meeting, don’t admit to not working enough shifts
 
'After hours' may not count/matter if it's part of the salaried position. Overtime likely would have needed to be authorized if they use an hourly system.

Was some sort of timecard filled out? The application would track - probably how they are saying there's a shortage.
Administrator of the shift schedule would likely have some sort of schedule saved beyond the application.

The health record definitely has an analytics module that can show orders were placed and provider notes generated on days that were covered.
 
OK, more info now that I've talked to her....presented in random thoughts format, important points bolded.

  • She doesn't feel like the extra time spent should "count" officially...she is salaried. Her job (with her partners) is to keep that ICU staffed and patients taken care of. But its a slap in the face to be "charged" for being short ~10 shifts when she (and others) go above and beyond to care for the patients.
  • Related, if the above even came up, she is certain management would just pin that on her as being "inefficient"...when in fact they have no idea how to do her job and the work in entails.
  • Management has a long history of being just straight out awful. That could fill up several pages. For example, at one point when there was a issue of medical care on the unit, she was marched in front of the CMO and questioned about her knowledge of her discipline. And she's the senior physician in the group at this point with a stellar track record. just stupid. We have theorized that they are trying to get docs to quit so that they can farm out the whole unit to an outside locums company.
  • As far as what a "FTE" is, some history is necessary.
    • When she first joined the group, she was one of only 3 docs. Its an ICU, so a doc has to be on the clock at all times. So at that point, it was just (365d x 24hr)/3 for each of them. I'm not sure how it was worded in the contract, but unlikely it was to that level of detail. Its more "OK docs, run the ICU", and they did for many years
    • as Time went on, that pace was impossible to maintain, staffing improved a little bit, and my wife was eventually working on actually defining a more reasonable definition of an FTE.
    • That definition was "agreed to" prior (or during?) the fiscal year in question. I'm not sure what that number was, but lets say its 200 shift for a full time
    • I dont believe anything was formalized/signed regarding this definition, other than I suppose an email trail. Certainly it is NOT in an official employment contract.
    • Complicating factors however was...there were 5 docs during that fiscal year at different times. One retired halfway through. Another joined the group during the year (but needed ramp-up time paired with another doc). Plus, not all 5 were full time. I think only 2 of them were? and some changed their FTE level during the year.
    • In addition, the Locums company was also covering time. Vacations, gaps, leaves of absences, etc
    • So, you can imagine the schedule was quite complicated. It should be noted that the docs are left to themselves to design/assign the schedule...management does not do this. One of the docs (not my wife) was in charge of the schedule, which is not a trivial task.
    • Management is working off the "call schedule" which is entered in the system. Like I mentioned before, there has to be a doc "on call" and in charge of the unit at all times. So they can use that to count her shifts. Its probably accurate, or at least close, I'm not sure. There is no such thing as "punching in and out" for shifts.
  • So that all said, my wife followed the schedule, and had no idea if she was a little off pace (in either direction). It seemed to be correct to her. That said, she isn't counting every hour/shift like she's scrooge either. All the docs just collectively worked together, made sure the unit was covered, and survived.
  • Also, the fiscal year in question ended last summer! Its been almost 8 months now since the period in question ended.

So yesterday she is called into management office, told she basically owes money for ~10 shifts, and needs to work with Physician Services to come up with a payment plan. This is not a trivial amount of money. Additionally, this information is presented as a formal "performance improvement plan", essentially scolding her for screwing up her own schedule. She refused to sign.

She has long loathed this place, but its a situation where we love where we live, schools are great, close to family, pay is good, etc. We are graduating our youngest this spring, so all bets are off now. But it would advantageous to stick it out until 55 (she is turning 51 this year), as it makes it super-easy to pull from her 401k at that point. and that gets us through the college years ($).
 
I am guessing when you're saying it's difficult to track you mean for the employee. My read on the situation is the company feels they know exactly how many shifts she worked and how many she was supposed to work. That doesn't mean I'm not on your side. If you value an employee, you should be telling them far in advance if something like this is coming and the numbers aren't lining up. Was your wife warned over and over again that her number of shifts was lagging to the agreement? If not, whether you pay or don't pay it back, I would say very weak by the employer. If she was warned, that is relevant to the thread imo.
 
mr. furley said:
hire a lawyer
hit the gym
sleep with the lawyer's wife
Click to expand...
I've been telling her #1 for years. One of her partners has gone that route in the past for other reasons. I told the wife to piggyback on their talks about this subject (that doc also is "short" shifts)
#2 I should be doing anyway
#3 would not be good for anyone's mental health, or my financial situation
 
cheese said:
I am guessing when you're saying it's difficult to track you mean for the employee. My read on the situation is the company feels they know exactly how many shifts she worked and how many she was supposed to work. That doesn't mean I'm not on your side. If you value an employee, you should be telling them far in advance if something like this is coming and the numbers aren't lining up. Was your wife warned over and over again that her number of shifts was lagging to the agreement? If not, whether you pay or don't pay it back, I would say very weak by the employer. If she was warned, that is relevant to the thread imo.
Click to expand...
Creating the schedule was/is difficult. Between locums, retirements, and not all the docs being full time, its a complicated puzzle, impossible to have a reasonable pattern. That schedule is made by one of her partners.
But the CALL schedule is the record of which doc was on call in the system at any point for the year. It's necessary so that if something comes up (either internally, or external hospital calling) they know how to route the call. That's likely accurate, not sure. And that is what management is using for "how much you worked".

no warning whatsoever. I get the impression that this is an accounting/finance thing where they are trying to reconcile everything, and they are finding shortages in shifts, and trying to recoup money. It may be happening in other departments as well, not sure.

Its totally amazing you would treat employees this way...let alone the physicians. You would not believe some of the things they get scolded/reprimanded for. I wont' go into it here.
 
A couple other notes:
  • as noted above, I don't believe any definition of FTE/shifts exists in her formal employment contract . At best, there are email trails/discussions about the FTE definition.
  • Apparently this topic did come up once with the head of the department (He works in a different discipline, but is the dept lead for both his, and my wife's discipline). The topic came up about what would happen if they came up short by a few shifts. His answer was "well, then you got a few extra days off, don't worry about it". For what it's worth, he doesn't agree either with what is happening, but he is just the messenger and fellow physician.
 
@Fruitbat assuming we're talking significant/meaningful money, the only answer here is for you to suggest to your spouse that she contact an employment law attorney in your jurisdiction. It's worth at least the consult fee.
 
Fruitbat said:
OK, more info now that I've talked to her....presented in random thoughts format, important points bolded.

  • She doesn't feel like the extra time spent should "count" officially...she is salaried. Her job (with her partners) is to keep that ICU staffed and patients taken care of. But its a slap in the face to be "charged" for being short ~10 shifts when she (and others) go above and beyond to care for the patients.
  • Related, if the above even came up, she is certain management would just pin that on her as being "inefficient"...when in fact they have no idea how to do her job and the work in entails.
  • Management has a long history of being just straight out awful. That could fill up several pages. For example, at one point when there was a issue of medical care on the unit, she was marched in front of the CMO and questioned about her knowledge of her discipline. And she's the senior physician in the group at this point with a stellar track record. just stupid. We have theorized that they are trying to get docs to quit so that they can farm out the whole unit to an outside locums company.
  • As far as what a "FTE" is, some history is necessary.
    • When she first joined the group, she was one of only 3 docs. Its an ICU, so a doc has to be on the clock at all times. So at that point, it was just (365d x 24hr)/3 for each of them. I'm not sure how it was worded in the contract, but unlikely it was to that level of detail. Its more "OK docs, run the ICU", and they did for many years
    • as Time went on, that pace was impossible to maintain, staffing improved a little bit, and my wife was eventually working on actually defining a more reasonable definition of an FTE.
    • That definition was "agreed to" prior (or during?) the fiscal year in question. I'm not sure what that number was, but lets say its 200 shift for a full time
    • I dont believe anything was formalized/signed regarding this definition, other than I suppose an email trail. Certainly it is NOT in an official employment contract.
    • Complicating factors however was...there were 5 docs during that fiscal year at different times. One retired halfway through. Another joined the group during the year (but needed ramp-up time paired with another doc). Plus, not all 5 were full time. I think only 2 of them were? and some changed their FTE level during the year.
    • In addition, the Locums company was also covering time. Vacations, gaps, leaves of absences, etc
    • So, you can imagine the schedule was quite complicated. It should be noted that the docs are left to themselves to design/assign the schedule...management does not do this. One of the docs (not my wife) was in charge of the schedule, which is not a trivial task.
    • Management is working off the "call schedule" which is entered in the system. Like I mentioned before, there has to be a doc "on call" and in charge of the unit at all times. So they can use that to count her shifts. Its probably accurate, or at least close, I'm not sure. There is no such thing as "punching in and out" for shifts.
  • So that all said, my wife followed the schedule, and had no idea if she was a little off pace (in either direction). It seemed to be correct to her. That said, she isn't counting every hour/shift like she's scrooge either. All the docs just collectively worked together, made sure the unit was covered, and survived.
  • Also, the fiscal year in question ended last summer! Its been almost 8 months now since the period in question ended.

So yesterday she is called into management office, told she basically owes money for ~10 shifts, and needs to work with Physician Services to come up with a payment plan. This is not a trivial amount of money. Additionally, this information is presented as a formal "performance improvement plan", essentially scolding her for screwing up her own schedule. She refused to sign.

She has long loathed this place, but its a situation where we love where we live, schools are great, close to family, pay is good, etc. We are graduating our youngest this spring, so all bets are off now. But it would advantageous to stick it out until 55 (she is turning 51 this year), as it makes it super-easy to pull from her 401k at that point. and that gets us through the college years ($).
Click to expand...
Yep, figured as much from your first post. This is the new playbook, especially the performance improvement plan.

She should not sign anything. She should not say anything else.

Lawyer and find a new job. They are looking to replace her (and possibly others).
 
I'm sure she has plenty of dirt on them and I'm sure they have over billed 100x what they "overpaid" her. Simple question, did my hours generate more billings than x shifts per year nets? If yes, then **** off.
 
Fruitbat said:
cheese said:
I am guessing when you're saying it's difficult to track you mean for the employee. My read on the situation is the company feels they know exactly how many shifts she worked and how many she was supposed to work. That doesn't mean I'm not on your side. If you value an employee, you should be telling them far in advance if something like this is coming and the numbers aren't lining up. Was your wife warned over and over again that her number of shifts was lagging to the agreement? If not, whether you pay or don't pay it back, I would say very weak by the employer. If she was warned, that is relevant to the thread imo.
Click to expand...
Creating the schedule was/is difficult. Between locums, retirements, and not all the docs being full time, its a complicated puzzle, impossible to have a reasonable pattern. That schedule is made by one of her partners.
But the CALL schedule is the record of which doc was on call in the system at any point for the year. It's necessary so that if something comes up (either internally, or external hospital calling) they know how to route the call. That's likely accurate, not sure. And that is what management is using for "how much you worked".

no warning whatsoever. I get the impression that this is an accounting/finance thing where they are trying to reconcile everything, and they are finding shortages in shifts, and trying to recoup money. It may be happening in other departments as well, not sure.

Its totally amazing you would treat employees this way...let alone the physicians. You would not believe some of the things they get scolded/reprimanded for. I wont' go into it here.
Click to expand...
Oh, and I get the worry of finding new work. There's likely limited opportunities locally.

She should HIGHLY consider switching to locums. While it may seem like a big switch, I bet she could really enjoy the change and the freedom of scheduling/working whenever she wants.

Sucks she's so close to 55 and they are doing this, but that also may not be coincidental. Hire a lawyer, especially one that specializes in medicine contracts. And start looking at locums opportunities. She might be pleasantly surprised at what's available along with the new flexibility that comes with it.
 
*Not a Lawyer

Don't sign anything, don't admit to anything. Make them sue your wife and show their receipts. Get them to open up for discovery and let's see if they want to settle once they start weighing the cost of lawyers vs. the amount they can recoup.
 
BassNBrew said:
I'm sure she has plenty of dirt on them and I'm sure they have over billed 100x what they "overpaid" her. Simple question, did my hours generate more billings than x shifts per year nets? If yes, then **** off.
Click to expand...
Interesting point. When she was in Fellowship at a major Medical school / hospital with a huge unit, it was a big money generator. Lifted up some of the other departments who operated at a loss. Here, she keeps getting told they are losing money. She has asked to see the numbers, but they are never shared. So she doesn't know what's going on. It could be legit (much smaller hospital, doesn't handle the very very extreme cases, etc). Could be shady accounting. Could be idiot management. Probably all 3.
 
One question . Was she the only doctor being told she is short shifts ? If not, they can fight this together. If so, why only her ?
 
Gatorade said:
One question . Was she the only doctor being told she is short shifts ? If not, they can fight this together. If so, why only her ?
Click to expand...
There is at least one other in her unit. Unknown if other departments are getting the same treatment.
 
Fruitbat said:
A couple other notes:
  • as noted above, I don't believe any definition of FTE/shifts exists in her formal employment contract . At best, there are email trails/discussions about the FTE definition.
  • Apparently this topic did come up once with the head of the department (He works in a different discipline, but is the dept lead for both his, and my wife's discipline). The topic came up about what would happen if they came up short by a few shifts. His answer was "well, then you got a few extra days off, don't worry about it". For what it's worth, he doesn't agree either with what is happening, but he is just the messenger and fellow physician.
Click to expand...
If she is on contract all that matters is what's spelled out in the contract. If the contract doesn't define "shift" or "FTE" I don't see how management has a leg to stand on. Heck, once she works a customary 8 hour day it could be argued the 9th hour and above is another shift without any specific definition/guidance. Once an employment lawyer locks on they may back down real quick if the above is accurate.
 
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Sand said:
Fruitbat said:
A couple other notes:
  • as noted above, I don't believe any definition of FTE/shifts exists in her formal employment contract . At best, there are email trails/discussions about the FTE definition.
  • Apparently this topic did come up once with the head of the department (He works in a different discipline, but is the dept lead for both his, and my wife's discipline). The topic came up about what would happen if they came up short by a few shifts. His answer was "well, then you got a few extra days off, don't worry about it". For what it's worth, he doesn't agree either with what is happening, but he is just the messenger and fellow physician.
Click to expand...
If she is on contract all that matters is what's spelled out in the contract. If the contract doesn't define "shift" or "FTE" I don't see how management has a leg to stand on. Heck, once she works a customary 8 hour day it could be argued the 9th hour and above is another shift without any specific definition/guidance. Once an employment lawyer locks on they may back down real quick if the above is accurate.
Click to expand...
LOL...you owe me back pay xxxxx.
 
Doesn’t matter if she goes above and beyond for her patients. For the good of the patient only matters when the hospital uses it and it’s usually to gaslight you. Sorry this is happening. As I’m sure she knows, medicine is a business now, nothing more to the corporations running it. If they think they can claw back some of the money they paid her, they’ll do it. As others have said get a lawyer and put the pressure on them. 10 shifts isn’t small money. I’m sure she probably works 12s and we’re talking tens of thousands of dollars.
 
Regarding what you said about her 401-k, she can always get a new job and roll over the retirement plan.
See the rule of 55 (which it seems like you know). If a previous 401k is rolled over, you can draw from that at 55 (as it's combined with the new 401k)
 
If your wife insists on “working to rule” - leaving after exactly 8 hours, not covering other unscheduled shifts, etc - my guess is that would be a disaster for the hospital. But if that’s the way they want to play it …

At any rate, they would have to sue me to get a dime of that pay back. Good luck to them with that
 
If there is no clawback provision, say "no thank you" and keep working. Let them try to come get it. I'd get an employment law attorney for sure. Could they just want her out? You don't do this to people you want to keep
 
gianmarco said:
Fruitbat said:
OK, more info now that I've talked to her....presented in random thoughts format, important points bolded.

  • She doesn't feel like the extra time spent should "count" officially...she is salaried. Her job (with her partners) is to keep that ICU staffed and patients taken care of. But its a slap in the face to be "charged" for being short ~10 shifts when she (and others) go above and beyond to care for the patients.
  • Related, if the above even came up, she is certain management would just pin that on her as being "inefficient"...when in fact they have no idea how to do her job and the work in entails.
  • Management has a long history of being just straight out awful. That could fill up several pages. For example, at one point when there was a issue of medical care on the unit, she was marched in front of the CMO and questioned about her knowledge of her discipline. And she's the senior physician in the group at this point with a stellar track record. just stupid. We have theorized that they are trying to get docs to quit so that they can farm out the whole unit to an outside locums company.
  • As far as what a "FTE" is, some history is necessary.
    • When she first joined the group, she was one of only 3 docs. Its an ICU, so a doc has to be on the clock at all times. So at that point, it was just (365d x 24hr)/3 for each of them. I'm not sure how it was worded in the contract, but unlikely it was to that level of detail. Its more "OK docs, run the ICU", and they did for many years
    • as Time went on, that pace was impossible to maintain, staffing improved a little bit, and my wife was eventually working on actually defining a more reasonable definition of an FTE.
    • That definition was "agreed to" prior (or during?) the fiscal year in question. I'm not sure what that number was, but lets say its 200 shift for a full time
    • I dont believe anything was formalized/signed regarding this definition, other than I suppose an email trail. Certainly it is NOT in an official employment contract.
    • Complicating factors however was...there were 5 docs during that fiscal year at different times. One retired halfway through. Another joined the group during the year (but needed ramp-up time paired with another doc). Plus, not all 5 were full time. I think only 2 of them were? and some changed their FTE level during the year.
    • In addition, the Locums company was also covering time. Vacations, gaps, leaves of absences, etc
    • So, you can imagine the schedule was quite complicated. It should be noted that the docs are left to themselves to design/assign the schedule...management does not do this. One of the docs (not my wife) was in charge of the schedule, which is not a trivial task.
    • Management is working off the "call schedule" which is entered in the system. Like I mentioned before, there has to be a doc "on call" and in charge of the unit at all times. So they can use that to count her shifts. Its probably accurate, or at least close, I'm not sure. There is no such thing as "punching in and out" for shifts.
  • So that all said, my wife followed the schedule, and had no idea if she was a little off pace (in either direction). It seemed to be correct to her. That said, she isn't counting every hour/shift like she's scrooge either. All the docs just collectively worked together, made sure the unit was covered, and survived.
  • Also, the fiscal year in question ended last summer! Its been almost 8 months now since the period in question ended.

So yesterday she is called into management office, told she basically owes money for ~10 shifts, and needs to work with Physician Services to come up with a payment plan. This is not a trivial amount of money. Additionally, this information is presented as a formal "performance improvement plan", essentially scolding her for screwing up her own schedule. She refused to sign.

She has long loathed this place, but its a situation where we love where we live, schools are great, close to family, pay is good, etc. We are graduating our youngest this spring, so all bets are off now. But it would advantageous to stick it out until 55 (she is turning 51 this year), as it makes it super-easy to pull from her 401k at that point. and that gets us through the college years ($).
Click to expand...
Yep, figured as much from your first post. This is the new playbook, especially the performance improvement plan.

She should not sign anything. She should not say anything else.

Lawyer and find a new job. They are looking to replace her (and possibly others).
Click to expand...
I don’t know anything about the specific situation, but reading it all with the lens of knowing how evil bureaucrats operate, it’s very clear they are trying to fire/replace her.
 
Alex P Keaton said:
gianmarco said:
Fruitbat said:
OK, more info now that I've talked to her....presented in random thoughts format, important points bolded.

  • She doesn't feel like the extra time spent should "count" officially...she is salaried. Her job (with her partners) is to keep that ICU staffed and patients taken care of. But its a slap in the face to be "charged" for being short ~10 shifts when she (and others) go above and beyond to care for the patients.
  • Related, if the above even came up, she is certain management would just pin that on her as being "inefficient"...when in fact they have no idea how to do her job and the work in entails.
  • Management has a long history of being just straight out awful. That could fill up several pages. For example, at one point when there was a issue of medical care on the unit, she was marched in front of the CMO and questioned about her knowledge of her discipline. And she's the senior physician in the group at this point with a stellar track record. just stupid. We have theorized that they are trying to get docs to quit so that they can farm out the whole unit to an outside locums company.
  • As far as what a "FTE" is, some history is necessary.
    • When she first joined the group, she was one of only 3 docs. Its an ICU, so a doc has to be on the clock at all times. So at that point, it was just (365d x 24hr)/3 for each of them. I'm not sure how it was worded in the contract, but unlikely it was to that level of detail. Its more "OK docs, run the ICU", and they did for many years
    • as Time went on, that pace was impossible to maintain, staffing improved a little bit, and my wife was eventually working on actually defining a more reasonable definition of an FTE.
    • That definition was "agreed to" prior (or during?) the fiscal year in question. I'm not sure what that number was, but lets say its 200 shift for a full time
    • I dont believe anything was formalized/signed regarding this definition, other than I suppose an email trail. Certainly it is NOT in an official employment contract.
    • Complicating factors however was...there were 5 docs during that fiscal year at different times. One retired halfway through. Another joined the group during the year (but needed ramp-up time paired with another doc). Plus, not all 5 were full time. I think only 2 of them were? and some changed their FTE level during the year.
    • In addition, the Locums company was also covering time. Vacations, gaps, leaves of absences, etc
    • So, you can imagine the schedule was quite complicated. It should be noted that the docs are left to themselves to design/assign the schedule...management does not do this. One of the docs (not my wife) was in charge of the schedule, which is not a trivial task.
    • Management is working off the "call schedule" which is entered in the system. Like I mentioned before, there has to be a doc "on call" and in charge of the unit at all times. So they can use that to count her shifts. Its probably accurate, or at least close, I'm not sure. There is no such thing as "punching in and out" for shifts.
  • So that all said, my wife followed the schedule, and had no idea if she was a little off pace (in either direction). It seemed to be correct to her. That said, she isn't counting every hour/shift like she's scrooge either. All the docs just collectively worked together, made sure the unit was covered, and survived.
  • Also, the fiscal year in question ended last summer! Its been almost 8 months now since the period in question ended.

So yesterday she is called into management office, told she basically owes money for ~10 shifts, and needs to work with Physician Services to come up with a payment plan. This is not a trivial amount of money. Additionally, this information is presented as a formal "performance improvement plan", essentially scolding her for screwing up her own schedule. She refused to sign.

She has long loathed this place, but its a situation where we love where we live, schools are great, close to family, pay is good, etc. We are graduating our youngest this spring, so all bets are off now. But it would advantageous to stick it out until 55 (she is turning 51 this year), as it makes it super-easy to pull from her 401k at that point. and that gets us through the college years ($).
Click to expand...
Yep, figured as much from your first post. This is the new playbook, especially the performance improvement plan.

She should not sign anything. She should not say anything else.

Lawyer and find a new job. They are looking to replace her (and possibly others).
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I don’t know anything about the specific situation, but reading it all with the lens of knowing how evil bureaucrats operate, it’s very clear they are trying to fire/replace her.
Click to expand...
This is key IMO. Employers don’t put employees they want to keep on performance improvement plans. Whether your wife wants to stay there or not is irrelevant at this point Fruitbat because it sure seems like her employer aims to get rid of her regardless.

Sadly, she needs to consult with an employment lawyer and find a new job as soon as possible IMO.
 
Sorry, just catching up on this thread. Without a clear written contract, policy or agreement, I would think it would be very difficult for the company to legally collect on the payments they seek. It’s basically a contractual argument and it seems they have no enforceable contract to point to. And if they want to try to deduct from future paychecks, in most states, an employee has to formally consent to any such deductions through some sort of wage deduction authorization form.
 
Judge Smails said:
If there is no clawback provision, say "no thank you" and keep working. Let them try to come get it. I'd get an employment law attorney for sure. Could they just want her out? You don't do this to people you want to keep
Click to expand...

Exactly right to the bolded. It is so amazing to me. This is the only unit of this type in almost 150 mile radius. Its a smallish-town (as small as you can be and still support a hospital of this size). Yet here comes my wife 15 years ago from a top med school / fellowship program wanting to help build it up to be the best it can be. Then gets pooped on for a decade+.
 
Catching up...

Yes, one other doc in her unit is being asked to pay back since she was short. The other two I guess had enough shifts.

As far as she remembers (15 years) she has only ever signed one contract, and that is when she started. She is pretty sure that there was no definition of FTE/shifts/etc. Even if there was, it is way obsolete now (number of docs has changed, they have gone from 12 or 24hr shifts to 8/16).

Any documentation of what a "shift" entails or what the definition of 1.0 FTE would just be in emails/memos/notes etc. Not in any signed document as far as she remembers.

"Only working her designated shifts/hours" is not really an option for her. She could get the minimum medical stuff done in the time allotted, but that would mean dumping work on others, not spending time with family/patients, etc. That is not how she operates. And that's all fine -- she is in the field to care for patients, not to punch a timecard. She's the type that gets letters years later from former patients thanking her.

Yeah, the Performance Plan thing is ridiculous. It is not the first time for her, or her partners. One of her partners got PIP'd for saying something mildly aggressive during a particularly stressful day. It was along the lines of "someone's going to pay if XYZ happens again!". At worst, that's a side hallway conversation about keeping your cool.

Will likely be talking to a lawyer soon. This is too much money to let it go. There is also a possibility that management gets pushback and this issue just disappears into the night, who knows. At this point she has only be asked to talk to Physician Services about payment.
 
If she is on a PIP they are definitely trying to fire her. I would ask to be sent the employee agreement language that points to a clawback. Then take that to an employment law attorney. But be ready for her to seek new employment.
 
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