FORWARD political party - any interest ? (1 Viewer)

[Sleestak]

https://www.forwardparty.com/

Middle-of-the-road voters are crying out for representation and competent government.  The only people happy with the status quo are the radical left and the religio-fascist right, who view politics as warfare and are therefore content to squabble eternally like those two dudes named Lazarus in that Star Trek episode.  These screamers increasingly dominate party primaries via the gerrymander.

Any hope that this new Forward Party effort (Yang is a headliner) will change things?

Any reason I shouldn't sign up as a volunteer?

 

[Stealthycat]

what are they platform stance on abortion and guns ?

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

https://www.forwardparty.com/

Middle-of-the-road voters are crying out for representation and competent government.  The only people happy with the status quo are the radical left and the religio-fascist right, who view politics as warfare and are therefore content to squabble eternally like those two dudes named Lazarus in that Star Trek episode.  These screamers increasingly dominate party primaries via the gerrymander.

Any hope that this new Forward Party effort (Yang is a headliner) will change things?

Any reason I shouldn't sign up as a volunteer?

IMO the American political system will always, always, always eliminate third parties over time regardless of their merit. We have winner-take-all elections, which means as soon as a third party impacts an election is a tangible way, the losing party will blame them for their defeat and the party will be put in exactly the position it's trying to avoid- choosing sides. It is inevitable in this system. That's why haven't had a truly impactful third party candidacy with a real chance to win in my lifetime. It's why viable presidential candidates on the far left and far right campaign for the GOP and Dem nominations instead of running for third parties that more closely match their ideology. It's why every presidential election that seems a substantial uptick in third party participation is followed by a decline- see 1980 to 1984,  and then the steady decline for every election after 1992 (first Perot himself dropping from 18% to 8%, then Ralph Nader at 3% in 2000 followed by a 90% drop to .3% and a destroyed legacy in 2004).

People want a third party should be pushing for ranked choice and proportional representation, the structural changes we need for third parties to thrive.  That's what I'd like to see, anyway. Stuff like this is just gonna end with a whole bunch of people in one major party mad at the third party because they hold them responsible for the other major party's electoral wins. Happens every time. 

That's my opinion, anyway.  But what do I know.

 

[massraider]

IMO the American political system will always, always, always eliminate third parties over time regardless of their merit. We have winner-take-all elections, which means as soon as a third party impacts an election is a tangible way, the losing party will blame them for their defeat and the party will be put in exactly the position it's trying to avoid- choosing sides. It is inevitable in this system. That's why haven't had a truly impactful third party candidacy with a real chance to win in my lifetime. It's why viable presidential candidates on the far left and far right campaign for the GOP and Dem nominations instead of running for third parties that more closely match their ideology. It's why every presidential election that seems a substantial uptick in third party participation is followed by a decline- see 1980 to 1984,  and then the steady decline for every election after 1992 (first Perot himself dropping from 18% to 8%, then Ralph Nader at 3% in 2000 followed by a 90% drop to .3% and a destroyed legacy in 2004).

People want a third party should be pushing for ranked choice and proportional representation, the structural changes we need for third parties to thrive.  That's what I'd like to see, anyway. Stuff like this is just gonna end with a whole bunch of people in one major party mad at the third party because they hold them responsible for the other major party's electoral wins. Happens every time. 

That's my opinion, anyway.  But what do I know.

Or you get Italy, multiple parties, decades of gridlock. 

 

[Joe Schmo]

People want a third party should be pushing for ranked choice and proportional representation, the structural changes we need for third parties to thrive.  That's what I'd like to see, anyway. Stuff like this is just gonna end with a whole bunch of people in one major party mad at the third party because they hold them responsible for the other major party's electoral wins. Happens every time. 

Thats is the party's raison d'être as stated in their opening platform: https://www.forwardparty.com/platform

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

As soon as a 3rd party shows it can get real votes one of the two major parties will cut it out by adopting its most popular positions.

Also, there really aren't very many middle of the road voters.  Everyone wants to run from the labels, but deep down the vast majority of people ID with one of the two most of the time.

 

[Herb]

what are they platform stance on abortion and guns ?

They have not announced a platform yet, but ideally they would favor common sense restrictions on both, while keeping them legal and available. In other words, you'll keep voting Republican. 

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

Thats is the party's raison d'être as stated in their opening platform: https://www.forwardparty.com/platform

Thanks for the heads up!

I see the ranked choice voting which is great, but nothing about proportional representation. I guess open primaries is an effort to accomplish something similar, but I'm not sure its would be all that useful- people who don't follow local races closely (ie most people) would still look for party affiliation as a shortcut and you'd eventually end up with the same problem where a third party candidate decides a close election and pisses off the losing party, dooming third party efforts to win more support from that side. The Nader effect, for lack of a better description.

Anyway, if they're more about changing this stuff than putting up candidates and winning elections, sign me up. But the fact that it was started by a billionaire failed presidential candidate is not an ideal starting point IMO.

 

[Stealthycat]

They have not announced a platform yet, but ideally they would favor common sense restrictions on both, while keeping them legal and available. In other words, you'll keep voting Republican. 

hard to have interest in a political party that doesn't have a platform

 

[timschochet]

First impression: I really don’t like the name. It’s the sort of name Mao Tse Tung would choose. 

 

[E Street Brat]

First impression: I really don’t like the name. It’s the sort of name Mao Tse Tung would choose. 

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[Desert_Power]

I support them insofar as I advocate for reforms that include ranked choice voting and move us closer to a proportionally representative democracy. However, under our existing system, I would not likely consider throwing a vote away for this third party.

 

[timschochet]

Exactly what I was thinking

Missed that at the time. Well I didn’t vote for Obama either. There was something in his messaging that made me uncomfortable. I also didn’t vote for him in 2012 because I didn’t like the “you didn’t build that” message and I thought Mitt Romney would have made a pretty good President (still do.) But in retrospect Obama did a decent job. I know I’m very much alone in this but so far I think Biden has been a better President, slightly, than Obama. More clear sighted, less hubris, better leadership. IMO. 

 

[Zegras11]

As soon as a 3rd party shows it can get real votes one of the two major parties will cut it out by adopting its most popular positions.

Also, there really aren't very many middle of the road voters.  Everyone wants to run from the labels, but deep down the vast majority of people ID with one of the two most of the time.

This just isn't correct.  Almost 50 percent are independent now and not affiliated with either party.  

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This just isn't correct.  Almost 50 percent are independent now and not affiliated with either party.  

The vast majority of "Independents" are independent in name only, and consistently vote for one party.

 

[cockroach]

Ralph Nader at 3% in 2000 followed by a 90% drop to .3% and a destroyed legacy in 2004).

Nader's legacy is in all the lives he's helped save by advocating for seatbelts.  

 

[Sleestak]

what are they platform stance on abortion and guns ?

Common-sense regulation of both

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

what are they platform stance on abortion and guns ?

I certainly hope that the platform asserts that performing abortions with guns is a bad idea.

 

[Stealthycat]

Common-sense regulation of both

in other words, they don't have one

gotcha

 

[Herb]

hard to have interest in a political party that doesn't have a platform

That Republican Party doesn't. You vote for them.

 

[quick-hands]

First impression: I really don’t like the name. It’s the sort of name Mao Tse Tung would choose. 

maybe "lean forward"?

 

[zoonation]

First impression: I really don’t like the name. It’s the sort of name Mao Tse Tung would choose. 

The name is LIV golf team names bad.

 

[Stealthycat]

That Republican Party doesn't. You vote for them.

what ?

sometimes people say things 100% false and I got to wonder - do you (A) believe it or (B) just trying to mislead? 

https://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-gun-control/

https://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-abortion/

now, find me those links and show me Forward Party's views - I couldn't find them

 

[Stoneworker]

The vast majority of "Independents" are independent in name only, and consistently vote for one party.

That's because every election is a binary choice. You have no clue what independents would do if given a viable third candidate.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

what ?

sometimes people say things 100% false and I got to wonder - do you (A) believe it or (B) just trying to mislead? 

https://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-gun-control/

https://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-abortion/

now, find me those links and show me Forward Party's views - I couldn't find them

He meant that the GOP doesn't have a formal party platform. At the 2020 convention they just dusted off the 2016 version and wrote "TRUMP RULEZZZZ!!!!" at the top (OK, I made that last part up).

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Thanks for the heads up!

I see the ranked choice voting which is great, but nothing about proportional representation. I guess open primaries is an effort to accomplish something similar, but I'm not sure its would be all that useful- people who don't follow local races closely (ie most people) would still look for party affiliation as a shortcut and you'd eventually end up with the same problem where a third party candidate decides a close election and pisses off the losing party, dooming third party efforts to win more support from that side. The Nader effect, for lack of a better description.

Anyway, if they're more about changing this stuff than putting up candidates and winning elections, sign me up. But the fact that it was started by a billionaire failed presidential candidate is not an ideal starting point IMO.

This is pretty much where I am. I like that they're prioritizing structural reforms, because otherwise they're just wasting everyone's time. I'm not sure what their plan is to achieve those reforms. And while I don't have anything against Yang, I don't find him to be a particularly inspiring leader either. I wish them well, but I'm probably not getting involved.

Also, small nitpick: I don't know what Yang's net worth is, but there is no way it's anywhere close to a billion. The guy's claim to fame is starting a non-profit.

 

[-fish-]

Since my state is pretty much uncontested, I could get behind a third-party with some decent core principles.   If I lived in a swing state, not a chance.

 

[Sleestak]

Surprise that in a thread where we are discussing the merits of a new party, the usual DEM v REP slap fight intrudes and threatens to drown out the useful stuff.  And brilliantly illustrates the point.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

maybe "lean forward"?

That's something MSNBC would choose.

 

[msudaisy26]

You could start a new party that said everyone from our party that gets elected will flip a coin on every policy vote we have and I would vote for them over all the current crap we have had for the last 6 years. 

 

[Stealthycat]

He meant that the GOP doesn't have a formal party platform. At the 2020 convention they just dusted off the 2016 version and wrote "TRUMP RULEZZZZ!!!!" at the top (OK, I made that last part up).

fine, give me something, anything, that tells me what Forward Party believes in/stands for 

something

 

[-fish-]

You could start a new party that said everyone from our party that gets elected will flip a coin on every policy vote we have and I would vote for them over all the current crap we have had for the last 6 years. 

At least some stuff would get done.   

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

fine, give me something, anything, that tells me what Forward Party believes in/stands for 

something

I'm no expert -- and not a supporter -- but my understanding is that their platform is less about policies and more about electoral reforms (ranked-choice voting, proportional representation)

 

[-fish-]

I'm no expert -- and not a supporter -- but my understanding is that their platform is less about policies and more about electoral reforms (ranked-choice voting, proportional representation)

Yeah, they aren't really about pre-determined stances on particular issues.  The vision is to find ways to reach workable approaches that can actually garner enough support to get legislation passed.   It's basically the anti-gridlock party.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

You could start a new party that said everyone from our party that gets elected will flip a coin on every policy vote we have and I would vote for them over all the current crap we have had for the last 6 years. 

This has about a 50/50 chance of working.

 

[urbanhack]

As soon as a 3rd party shows it can get real votes one of the two major parties will cut it out by adopting its most popular positions.

Also, there really aren't very many middle of the road voters.  Everyone wants to run from the labels, but deep down the vast majority of people ID with one of the two most of the time.

The powers that control the parties (corporations, special interests, lobbyists, dark money, corporate media) are the ones who will never let it happen.

 

[urbanhack]

Surprise that in a thread where we are discussing the merits of a new party, the usual DEM v REP slap fight intrudes and threatens to drown out the useful stuff.  And brilliantly illustrates the point.

Did you know that Bill Laimbeer was a Sleestak actor?

 

[Herb]

fine, give me something, anything, that tells me what Forward Party believes in/stands for 

something

I literally said in an earlier post that they don't have a platform. It hasn't been determined yet.

But truthfully,  in 2020, the Republicans didn't have a platform. It was 'whatever Donald thinks.' And you voted for them straight down the ticket. So your desire for a platform seems disingenuous. 

 

[RCon]

That's because every election is a binary choice. You have no clue what independents would do if given a viable third candidate.

Vote for one of the two major party candidates to avoid throwing their vote away?

 

[Stealthycat]

But truthfully,  in 2020, the Republicans didn't have a platform

have you googled it ?

seriously man, c'mon

 

[DocHolliday]

As mentioned by others, it depends on the platform.  I am interested if they want fiscal responsibility, tightened gun control, crime reduction solutions, closing our borders, and putting the US on a path to energy independence,b and want to stay of personal choices such as abortion and gay marriage.  I don’t want much!

 

[Sleestak]

As mentioned by others, it depends on the platform.  I am interested if they want fiscal responsibility, tightened gun control, crime reduction solutions, closing our borders, and putting the US on a path to energy independence,b and want to stay of personal choices such as abortion and gay marriage.  I don’t want much!

Doc, I hate to tell you this, but you are losing ground on every single issue you listed per current trends.  Every single one.  So whatever you are doing isn't working! 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

https://www.theonion.com/andrew-yang-developing-new-fourth-party-after-failing-t-1847957168

 

[Mister CIA]

Shark jumped:  https://twitter.com/CaseyHo/status/1464335386730135554?t=5JGAp9JkxBarHVJCfCr_ug&s=19

 

[General Malaise]

https://www.forwardparty.com/

Middle-of-the-road voters are crying out for representation and competent government.  The only people happy with the status quo are the radical left and the religio-fascist right, who view politics as warfare and are therefore content to squabble eternally like those two dudes named Lazarus in that Star Trek episode.  These screamers increasingly dominate party primaries via the gerrymander.

Any hope that this new Forward Party effort (Yang is a headliner) will change things?

Any reason I shouldn't sign up as a volunteer?

Reminds me of every start-up company that had a big splash send off, had grand early expectations and then slowly, employees lost interest and left, funding dried up and the last person standing had to explain to the electric company why it couldn't pay its bill.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Shark jumped:  https://twitter.com/CaseyHo/status/1464335386730135554?t=5JGAp9JkxBarHVJCfCr_ug&s=19

Stupid question.

 

[Zegras11]

Reminds me of every start-up company that had a big splash send off, had grand early expectations and then slowly, employees lost interest and left, funding dried up and the last person standing had to explain to the electric company why it couldn't pay its bill.

But they don't have grand expectations.  Just building it from the ground up.  I've followed it for quite some time.   Don't agree with everything,  but like it way more than whatever either party is throwing out there now.  

I left the R right before Trump was elected.  He's an extreme narcissist that only cares about himself.  Will do anything he can to get his way because his money has always bought it.  

Yang understands how herculean this task is.  I think he has a good plan. 

https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1553040227379269632?t=Wc_P0_YiA0hJd2L4BcUI-w&s=19

60 percent want a 3rd party 

 

[-fish-]

Stupid question.

It really was a stupid question.  

I was just thinking this morning about how far I am from either party's ideologies at this point.   I can't stand our governor, but the guy he ran against was even worse (and completely unqualified).    In an environment with no good choices, something like what this party is trying to accomplish is pretty attractive.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

60 percent want a 3rd party 

Sure, but if we pretend that this 60% can be represented by 60 people, then these 60 people have about 90 different ideas on what this 3rd party would look like and think that coming to compromise is just too compromising.

And isn't that the problem?

 

[Zegras11]

Sure, but if we pretend that this 60% can be represented by 60 people, then these 60 people have about 90 different ideas on what this 3rd party would look like and think that coming to compromise is just too compromising.

And isn't that the problem?

not really.   doubt it's 90 different ideas.  We all just want common sense government that puts people first.

Nothing will ever change in the country for the good until people stop voting for these two parties.