Fraternities (1 Viewer)

[SHIZNITTTT]

So twin #2 who is going into Pre-med at University of Oklahoma is thinking about joining a fraternity. I was never in a fraternity unless you count the Army as one. He starts "rush" on Monday. I think it could be possibly good for him? He can be kinda quiet until he feels comfortable around people. Anything he needs to know? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Drunken knight]

He should try to remember that almost everything is a test, and most challenges are designed to promote unity. Sure, you will experience some richards, but there are many parallels to the business world. Have fun. Make good decisions.

I went to a smaller school and was fairly extroverted. It was not necessary, but was something I wanted to do. Networking was not my #1 priority, but I can see where it can be a benefit.

Good luck.

 

[PlayaHata]

Joining a fraternity was pretty great for me back in the 90s at least. I was pretty quiet and introverted and it really expanded my social circle and enhanced my abilities to meet girls. I met my wife through my fraternity and we'll be married 29 years next month. There are certainly some things that aren't great about them, but the pros definitely outweighed the cons for me.

 

[Zegras11]

Joining a fraternity was pretty great for me back in the 90s at least. I was pretty quiet and introverted and it really expanded my social circle and enhanced my abilities to meet girls. I met my wife through my fraternity and we'll be married 29 years next month. There are certainly some things that aren't great about them, but the pros definitely outweighed the cons for me.

This was exactly me also. Been married 38 years. Stlll really good friends with so many of the guys and I joined in 1979. My advice is to have him visit as many as possible to see where he fits in best.

On here, was thrilled to find out @bigbottom and I are in the same frat.

 

[General Malaise]

If he's pre-med, I'd do a lot of due diligence on the fraternities that have reputations for hazing vs. those that don't. Some of the more intense fraternities will demand a lot of time from their freshmen that can distract them from study time. If the kid was a business major or history, fine. But pre-med? Don't f around with that too much. Every grade will matter.

I had a great experience, but joined a fraternity with a zero-hazing policy (Lambda Chi). No regerts.

 

[SFBayDuck]

If he's pre-med, I'd do a lot of due diligence on the fraternities that have reputations for hazing vs. those that don't. Some of the more intense fraternities will demand a lot of time from their freshmen that can distract them from study time. If the kid was a business major or history, fine. But pre-med? Don't f around with that too much. Every grade will matter.

I had a great experience, but joined a fraternity with a zero-hazing policy (Lambda Chi). No regerts.

The no hazing thing was also key for me, I never saw the appeal of being humiliated as a way of initiating into a "brotherhood". Don't get me wrong we did plenty of stupid ****, but the members did it right along with the pledges so it was never an us vs them dynamic.

Like others here I made lifelong friends in numbers that a lot of other friends, fraternity or not, just don't seem to have. I'm also now involved with the current chapter as a member of the Housing Corp, helping them manage finances, maintenance, etc.

I'd say check it out, he can always not join or even de-pledge. My daughter went through sorority rush lasts year, pledged, but left within a week as she quickly realized it just wasn't for her.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Make sure he practices his keg stands and funnels this weekend.

 

[bigbottom]

I had an incredible experience being in a fraternity in the early 90s. Friendships, parties, philanthropy, athletics, leadership, managing a budget, etc., with none of the downsides (hazing, alcohol poisoning, drugs, sexual assault, etc.). My closest friends to this day are guys who were my fraternity brothers.

But I think being in a fraternity today is generally more complicated than my experience from 30+ years ago. The downsides mentioned above are more prevalent (maybe not the hazing, but the other stuff) and on many campuses, Greek life is despised by much of the student body. I would advise your son to keep an open mind, but to proceed with caution.

 

[bigbottom]

I had a great experience, but joined a fraternity with a zero-hazing policy (Lambda Chi). No regerts.

Note that the presence or absence of hazing is very much dependent on the particular local chapter in question, and not on the national fraternity generally, as pretty much all national fraternities have a zero-hazing policy. Talking to upper class men about their experience with and the reputation of various fraternity chapters at the school in question is of paramount importance.

 

[kupcho1]

Grab a seat and make yourselves at home.

Don't be shy about helping yourselves to punch and cookies.

 

[Brony]

Grab a seat and make yourselves at home.

Don't be shy about helping yourselves to punch and cookies.

I'd like you to meet Muhammat, Jugdish, Sydney and Clayton

 

[Drunken knight]

Trust

 

[Brony]

Great experience for me. For sure you'll get comments that he is buying friends and while that is true to some extent, I loved the fact that my circle of friends rapidly expanded to 80 people whereas people in the dorm life tended to stick to their small circle for most of college. Neither is wrong and it's up to the individual and what they want out of college.

 

[fightingillini]

I had an incredible experience being in a fraternity in the early 90s. Friendships, parties, philanthropy, athletics, leadership, managing a budget, etc., with none of the downsides (hazing, alcohol poisoning, drugs, sexual assault, etc.). My closest friends to this day are guys who were my fraternity brothers.

But I think being in a fraternity today is generally more complicated than my experience from 30+ years ago. The downsides mentioned above are more prevalent (maybe not the hazing, but the other stuff) and on many campuses, Greek life is despised by much of the student body. I would advise your son to keep an open mind, but to proceed with caution.

Great post. I had a great fraternity experience in the late 80s early 90s, My house was very diverse which helped me immensely later in life. Many of my brothers were engineering majors and they helped each other out immensely by studying together and splitting the workload up. Fraternities at many schools have average GPAs higher than the campus average.

Fraternity experiences will vary with each college. I went to Illinois, and the Greek system was the largest in the country, but you can you have a great time without being in one.....I had friends and dated women that were not Greek. My sister went to Bradley in Peoria IL and there if you were not Greek, your social life was pretty much nonexistent. So it all depends on the school. Check it out but don't join if you aren't totally into it. It's not for everybody.

 

[Sunshine6854]

I had zero interest in a frat. Openly derided them with my boys in college.
My son joined a frat and I think it really helped evolve his self confidence and social skills. He was pretty quiet before the frat and now 8 years later he'll freaking talk the ear off anyone.

I still however deride frats.

 

[sho nuff]

I enjoyed my time in a fraternity in college. Going to a smaller school that most called a suitcase college since most went home on the weekends...what was left around campus on weekends were the fraternity guys and sorority girls and so on. So it was a fun time and did lead to some great friendships that have lasted.

We just moved my son into the same school (he was not planning on going there and originally didn't even want to do the tour...he agreed to tour since my wife and I both went there and wanted to see how things changed...and he and two of his friends from high school really liked it and all ended up going there). Anyway...not sure that will be their thing at all. I was not planning on it when I went in...but a friend knew some of the guys from being around during the summer and we went to a few rush parties and had a great time. My son met a few of the current active members as they typically are around helping freshman move in. But not sure the current group is at all his style either.

 

[massraider]

If I had a kid in college, I would probably encourage it, I figure we are on the 2nd generation of kids who have been stunted socially by tech, and these kids need all the help they can get.

 

[John123]

I had a great experience, but joined a fraternity with a zero-hazing policy (Lambda Chi). No regerts.

Note that the presence or absence of hazing is very much dependent on the particular local chapter in question, and not on the national fraternity generally, as pretty much all national fraternities have a zero-hazing policy. Talking to upper class men about their experience with and the reputation of various fraternity chapters at the school in question is of paramount importance.

This is very true. The fraternity I was in didn't just have a national no hazing policy, but was founded in direct opposition to hazing in 1869. Even with that history they still had chapters that hazed. I was fortunate to not be one of those chapters but it's something anyone joining a fraternity needs to be cautious about. That being said, being in a fraternity can be a great experience and helpful beyond the college years.

 

[bigbottom]

My son is in a fraternity. And [link removed] from one of their day parties (a “Darty”) this past school year. I’ll leave it to you to determine whether this is an advertisement for fraternity membership or a PSA. I’m sure reasonable minds can differ. (I’ll probably delete the link after a bit.)

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

My son is in a fraternity. And this video is from one of their day parties (a “Darty”) this past school year. I’ll leave it to you to determine whether this is an advertisement for fraternity membership or a PSA. I’m sure reasonable minds can differ. (I’ll probably delete the link after a bit.)

Link no worky. Or was 12 minutes considered "a bit"?

 

[bigbottom]

Link no worky. Or was 12 minutes considered "a bit"?

fixed

 

[Drunken knight]

My son is in a fraternity. And this video is from one of their day parties (a “Darty”) this past school year. I’ll leave it to you to determine whether this is an advertisement for fraternity membership or a PSA. I’m sure reasonable minds can differ. (I’ll probably delete the link after a bit.)

Link no worky. Or was 12 minutes considered "a bit"?

Ok guys…. Get the sheep

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Smaller school probably good. Bigger school kinda pointless.

 

[Galileo]

Grab a seat and make yourselves at home.

Don't be shy about helping yourselves to punch and cookies.

I'd like you to meet Muhammat, Jugdish, Sydney and Clayton

Funny as hell in a '78 comedy, but for those who end up as part of that unwanted group, the rush process could potentially become a very damaging experience.

 

[rockaction]

My son is in a fraternity. And this video from one of their day parties (a “Darty”) this past school year. I’ll leave it to you to determine whether this is an advertisement for fraternity membership or a PSA. I’m sure reasonable minds can differ. (I’ll probably delete the link after a bit.)

They have a nighttime pillow fight? This does not sound copulatory at all. Holy LOL at the shenanigans. The faculty must adore them.

I got a kick out of the video. For most eighteen year-olds, that's for sure an advertisement rather than a PSA.

 

[rockaction]

By the way, I was in one. You have to be really, really careful if you join a social fraternity that you're not too social. My experience led to a lifelong problem with alcohol.

Not to dampen the mood here, but that's the kind of stuff that can happen, and you can wake up at forty-five like David Byrne going, "My God. What have I done?"

Just -- he should be really careful about the entire process.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I still have a fantasy football league with fraternity brothers from late 80s/early 90s where we get together and draft in person.

 

[bigbottom]

So twin #2 who is going into Pre-med at University of Oklahoma is thinking about joining a fraternity. I was never in a fraternity unless you count the Army as one. He starts "rush" on Monday. I think it could be possibly good for him? He can be kinda quiet until he feels comfortable around people. Anything he needs to know? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

By the way, one of my sons really good friends is a Kappa Sig at OU and he really enjoys it.

 

[sho nuff]

I still have a fantasy football league with fraternity brothers from late 80s/early 90s where we get together and draft in person.

Similar here. And just hosted several of them (two of the guys I also went to high school with)...hosted a group and smoked a big *** prime rib, played some poker and had a great time.

 

[Judge Smails]

Buncha fraternities at USC chose to not be affiliated with the school. I guess Sigma Nu's got out of hand and they handed down tough restrictions for all of them. They said no dice. We don't need USC.

 

[bigbottom]

Buncha fraternities at USC chose to not be affiliated with the school. I guess Sigma Nu's got out of hand and they handed down tough restrictions for all of them. They said no dice. We don't need USC.

Not suprisingly if you clicked the above link, I know all about this situation. It’s a real mess.

 

[Drunken knight]

Almost went to USC

 

[eoMMan]

Once I found out you had to pay to be in one…hard pass.

 

[John123]

Once I found out you had to pay to be in one…hard pass.

Gotta pay for the kegs somehow.

 

[Zegras11]

Once I found out you had to pay to be in one…hard pass.

We need the dues!

 

[nirad3]

I highly value my fraternity experience, although where I went to school - where there was already a very rich social scene - you may not have "needed" a fraternity to socialize, it did get me out of my shell quite a bit. Two of my better friends were made through the house, and a host of other "very good" friends too. The networking opportunities are great post-graduation, too. And not only that, but I had an "instant in" once I moved to Central Texas.

All in all a great experience, but it's not for everyone.

While we're here.... any Phi Kappa Psis?

 

[Drunken knight]

I highly value my fraternity experience, although where I went to school - where there was already a very rich social scene - you may not have "needed" a fraternity to socialize, it did get me out of my shell quite a bit. Two of my better friends were made through the house, and a host of other "very good" friends too. The networking opportunities are great post-graduation, too. And not only that, but I had an "instant in" once I moved to Central Texas.

All in all a great experience, but it's not for everyone.

While we're here.... any Phi Kappa Psis?

Phi Kappa Theta

 

[PlayaHata]

My son is in a fraternity. And this video from one of their day parties (a “Darty”) this past school year. I’ll leave it to you to determine whether this is an advertisement for fraternity membership or a PSA. I’m sure reasonable minds can differ. (I’ll probably delete the link after a bit.)

Not bagging on you, but it kind of irritates when folks say things like this, which insinuates that you only find this sort of thing in fraternities/sororities and nowhere else in college. The fact is there is plenty of drinking, partying, drugs, etc. to be found on any college campus whether you participate in Greek life or not. Same goes for sexual assault and, to a somewhat lesser extent, hazing.

P.S. For me as an 18yo college freshman, that video would definitely be an advertisement and not a PSA.

 

[Major]

Going into college I didn't think joining a fraternity was something on my to do list but looking back I'm glad I did. At my school, they were such an integral part of social life that if you weren't in one you were almost outcasted. Not all houses are created equal and greek life varies from campus to campus so it's hard for me to speak on OU. I made a lot of good friendships that still remain strong. I also think it helped my GPA as we'd often share notes, study together and had a great archive of past tests from various classes and professors. Plus the wimmenz

I think a lot has changed in terms of hazing in today's day and age. From what I hear hazing isn't a big thing anymore for most sanctioned houses. Our pledge semester was draining but very military based and probably toughened me up a bit. The drinking and social calendar can definitely distract you if you're not disciplined. I was a Finance major so a lot easier than someone going the Pre Med route.

Wishing your son all the best and that he has fun with the process. Rush week was such a big deal at my school people would actually transfer (mostly women) if they didn't get into the house they wanted

 

[PIK95]

They were the most fun years of my life, and it wasn't even close. Next week we have our big football auction. Can't wait to see the boys.

 

[PIK95]

Going into college I didn't think joining a fraternity was something on my to do list but looking back I'm glad I did. At my school, they were such an integral part of social life that if you weren't in one you were almost outcasted. Not all houses are created equal and greek life varies from campus to campus so it's hard for me to speak on OU. I made a lot of good friendships that still remain strong. I also think it helped my GPA as we'd often share notes, study together and had a great archive of past tests from various classes and professors. Plus the wimmenz

I think a lot has changed in terms of hazing in today's day and age. From what I hear hazing isn't a big thing anymore for most sanctioned houses. Our pledge semester was draining but very military based and probably toughened me up a bit. The drinking and social calendar can definitely distract you if you're not disciplined. I was a Finance major so a lot easier than someone going the Pre Med route.

Wishing your son all the best and that he has fun with the process. Rush week was such a big deal at my school people would actually transfer (mostly women) if they didn't get into the house they wanted

This all sounds very familiar. I was surprised when girls transfered out that didn't get bids. But it was a thing.

 

[bigbottom]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

 

[General Malaise]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

 

[General Malaise]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Or, you know.....Caucasian. How do you edit a post?

 

[Major]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Definitely a lot of racism in fraternities back then (at least down South). I went to that college in Highland Park and saw it first hand. Many of the houses just flat out wouldn't allow black members. Pathetic.

 

[bigbottom]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Definitely a lot of racism in fraternities back then (at least down South). I went to that college in Highland Park and saw it first hand. Many of the houses just flat out wouldn't allow black members. Pathetic.

I think things have definitely improved since back in the day. But for what it’s worth, the OU video is from 2015 and took place on a bus with the entire chapter (and dates) present. I’m friends with the guy who was the national fraternity president at the time and who yanked their charter the same day that the news broke.

 

[General Malaise]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Definitely a lot of racism in fraternities back then (at least down South). I went to that college in Highland Park and saw it first hand. Many of the houses just flat out wouldn't allow black members. Pathetic.

You're a Mustang? Nice. Spent many summer nights at the Green Elephant, Ice House and Milos. Good times.

 

[General Malaise]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Definitely a lot of racism in fraternities back then (at least down South). I went to that college in Highland Park and saw it first hand. Many of the houses just flat out wouldn't allow black members. Pathetic.

I think things have definitely improved since back in the day. But for what it’s worth, the OU video is from 2015 and took place on a bus with the entire chapter (and dates) present. I’m friends with the guy who was the national fraternity president at the time and who yanked their charter the same day that the news broke.

I think so. I went back to visit my fraternity house in 2013 after a 17 year absence. Back when I was a brother, we had a few guys we suspected (and later in life confirmed) were gay, but they didn't dare come out. But I attended chapter meeting with them and there a handful of very open homosexuals and it was not a big deal at all. Made me very happy. And this is in Jackson, MS so it doesn't get any more southern.

One of my best friends and brothers was black and it was a big deal back then; not so much for us, he was incredibly popular and could have joined any fraternity. But the black students on campus turned their backs to him and he wasn't well liked because he joined a fraternity.

I'm glad we're making progress.

 

[Major]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Definitely a lot of racism in fraternities back then (at least down South). I went to that college in Highland Park and saw it first hand. Many of the houses just flat out wouldn't allow black members. Pathetic.

You're a Mustang? Nice. Spent many summer nights at the Green Elephant, Ice House and Milos. Good times.

Yep. You gave me a laugh bringing up The Green Elephant. So many nights spent on that block.

 

[General Malaise]

While hazing has certainly been de-emphasized at many chapters, it definitely still exists, and probably at a proportionally higher rate at southern schools like OU. Make sure your son talks to folks attending OU if that is a concern. Also, OU had a pretty significant racial incident with one of their chapters a number of years ago that made national news, so if a reputation for diversity (or lack thereof) is an important concern, he should keep his eyes open during rush. Again, I’m not poo-pooing fraternity membership as I had an incredible experience and my son is currently in a fraternity at a school with a crazy fun Greek life.

Ah yes, the SAE's and their infamous "Oh there will never be a ****** SAE....". I heard that from a buddy of mine who was an SAE at Tulane in the early 90s and that basically ended our friendship. Years later, I saw the video of the kid from OU singing it on a bus. And to bring it full circle, my buddy and this kid from OU hail from Highland Park HS, which isn't surprising considering HP is 99.9999999999% causation.

Definitely a lot of racism in fraternities back then (at least down South). I went to that college in Highland Park and saw it first hand. Many of the houses just flat out wouldn't allow black members. Pathetic.

You're a Mustang? Nice. Spent many summer nights at the Green Elephant, Ice House and Milos. Good times.

Yep. You gave me a laugh bringing up The Green Elephant. So many nights spent on that block.

I'll never forget being at the Barley House in the summer of '93 watching the NBA Finals when the TVs cut away to the OJ Chase. The entire bar stopped whatever we were doing to watch. Surreal.