I don't know if this topic has been discussed before and it could possibly be a good topic for a free lance article on the site, but does anyone have opinions on using full points or decimal points in league scoring systems? I am currently at war, so to speak, with my league over changing our scoring system to decimal points. For those that are not familar, the general allocation of points for yards/ TD's is not impacted, rather the players just get credit for every yard rushed/caught as opposed to a whole point for every larger yard increment (in our league, 1pt for every 10 yards - i propose .1 pt for every yard). The basis for the argument, in my opinion, is that decimal points (A) more accurately reflect the performance of your players on the field, (B) alleviate any questions regarding tiebreakers b/c the probability of a tie becomes near impossible, and © makes the scoring/standings more fair. To expand on C briefly, players who rush or catch a 9 yard increment dont get any credit for the 9 yards (example 99 yards is 9 pts when in decimal system it should be 9.9 pts) so its very possible that in weeks which are very close, teams that should have won actually lose and vice versa. The logic behind decimals seem easy to me, but my opposition is currently intense. Anyone have any thoughts or even a logical argument for keeping the whole points? TIA.
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Full points vs. decimal points? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter towsonnc
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Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
agree with code on both reasons. very frustrating to have up to 9 points or more count for nothing.
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KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Always pro decimal scoring.
It just seems ridiculous for your QB to rush for 20 yards, then lose a full point because he kneels at the end of the game.
It just seems ridiculous for your QB to rush for 20 yards, then lose a full point because he kneels at the end of the game.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
You mean like rounding up? No, if I understand your question. If you give one point for 10 yard rushing and your player has 98 yards, you get 9.8 points in decimal scoring, 9 points in standard scoring.I thought with decimal scoring you are getting full points
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
decimal is the only way to go.
Ties suxor
Ties suxor
Frank Black
Footballguy
GregR_2
Footballguy
I agree, never heard a good reason against it, but there are good reasons against non-decimal. Just some people seem to want to stick with what they started with.It just doesn't make sense to me to use a scoring system where the following can happen:
10 rush yards, 0 receiving yards = 1 point.
10 rush yards, -9 receiving yards = 1 point
9 rush yards, 9 receiving yards = 0 points.
So 10 and 1 total yards can both be worth a point, while 18 total yards might get you 0.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
nygiants56
Footballguy
ties suck, primary reason..
M
MLBrandow
Guest
should attach a poll.
However, in the spirit of the level of competitiveness of the members that surf these boards, I suspect the decimal scoring system would be the overwhelming choice.
If you like ties, I'd say go for the traditional integer scoring system. For precision, should go for the decimal system.
There's always that week where yuo lose by one, but three of your receivers had X8 or X9 yards receiving and added up would have given you the win.
However, in the spirit of the level of competitiveness of the members that surf these boards, I suspect the decimal scoring system would be the overwhelming choice.
If you like ties, I'd say go for the traditional integer scoring system. For precision, should go for the decimal system.
There's always that week where yuo lose by one, but three of your receivers had X8 or X9 yards receiving and added up would have given you the win.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Reducing the number of ties isn't necessarily a good thing. If you are the second highest scorer of the week and you lose by 1 point, a tie (versus a loss) more accurately reflects your team strength.
In general, ties in any competition, better reflect what actually happenned. A tie is a better indicator of two teams in an 80-80 game than a W and an L in a 81-80 game.
In general, ties in any competition, better reflect what actually happenned. A tie is a better indicator of two teams in an 80-80 game than a W and an L in a 81-80 game.
Decimal is better, but there remains some pockets of resistance to it. Why? All I can really figure is that some people don't like to do the extra math involved with adding up the fractional amounts, even though the website is doing that work for you any way. I don't buy into the tradition thing so much as a reason not to do it, I think it's just some people are uncomfortable with seeing fractions for whatever reason.
TheCommish
Footballguy
My league uses decimal scoring, but in addition we use a type of "victory point" scoring when ranking the teams. For a victory, you get 5 points (0 for a loss and 2.5 for a tie). Also, depending on how your team ranks in total team offense (QB+RB+WR+TE+K) and total team defense (DL+LB+DB), you get additional points (up to 3 for each category) based on how you rank compared to other teams.This has gone over really well with the owners in my league because if you happen to lose a close high scoring game, you will still get victory points to further you along in the standings. In other words, if your team had the 2nd highest offensive and defensive scores, but you had the misfortune of playing the team with the best offensive and defensive scores, you would still get 5 victory points in my league. The win is important, but our ranking system eliminates a lot of the matchup luck factor. It helps to ensure that the best teams end up in the playoffs, which everyone is in favor of.
GregR_2
Footballguy
I completely disagree. It's zero-sum. If your 2nd best team is more accurately reflected, the 1st best team is less accurately reflected. Or you can show the same thing another way... when you consider that for every 2 vs 1 there is an 11 vs 12 that has things go the exact opposite in the exact same amounts, it's zero-sum.
You're focusing on a factor that is completely dwarfed by the other considerations.The larger deviation from "true measure of performance" is that with non-decimal scoring, 80-80 is itself not necessarily an accurate indicator of how they did in comparison to one another. For example, a league that starts 10 players. Both teams have identical TDs, etc, but in yardage one team has 10 more total yards per starter than the other. However, he has 5 yards in rush and 5 in rec for every player, thus getting no additional points for them.
The score could be an 80-80 tie when a 90-80 score is a much truer measure of the team's performances. Worse, it could be an 85-80 win when a truer measure would be it was an 85-90 loss. In short, what you said might have some truth to it, but the amount is extremely neglible compared to the inequity between points and performance that non-decimal gives.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
All very good points. I suppose in general I was getting at the idea that total FPs scored for the season (or playing each team each week) might be the best way to run the league.
Klecker
Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
My leagues don't use decimal scoring for a few reasons. First, it's not as aesthetically pleasing to have decimals. We prefer to report scores in whole numbers. Second, I see player scoring as being the points they score (TDs and FGs) with yardage, carry, and reception bonuses. Some leagues give bonus points if a player has over 100 yards rushing/receiving or 300 yards passing. Ours gives a bonus point for every 10 rushing/receiving, every 20 passing, every 5 rushes, and every reception. I guess that it's like hits in MLB: the 2,999th hit matters just as much in the game, but hit number 3,000 will get you into the Hall of Fame.
Whether you agree or disagree, it's a point of personal (or league) preference. Nobody gets "screwed" out of a win (or gains one) because of a scoring system. The whole league knows what the system is going into the season, and each owner submits a lineup each week knowing full well how the scoring is figured.
Whether you agree or disagree, it's a point of personal (or league) preference. Nobody gets "screwed" out of a win (or gains one) because of a scoring system. The whole league knows what the system is going into the season, and each owner submits a lineup each week knowing full well how the scoring is figured.
sorry, i couldn't resistActually you can do a little of both. For example, say you have a 12 team league with 3 divisions and 6 teams make your playoffs. Have the 3 division winners obviously make the playoffs and then give at least one wild card spot to best remaining won-loss record. Award the final wild card spot or two to highest remaining total points. It reduces the luck factor, gets the best teams in the playoffs and keeps more teams in contention for a playoff spot.Also wanted to add not sure why most people object to ties so much. I'm referring to regular season vs. post-season, when you do need a definitive result. But in regular season does it really matter if every game has a definitive winner or if a tie score is possible? Like Chase said, there are times where having the tie in the standings may more accurately determine a team's performance relative to the rest of the league. Just saying although I prefer decimal scoring, breaking ties shouldn't be the main reason to use it. Focus on it better accounting a player's actual performance as the reason to go decimal rather than as a tiebreaking tool.
Nemesis
Footballguy
To the OP:
My league was against decimal scoring...........So I compromised and convinced them to go to increments using .5 points FOR SOME CATEGORIES.
Example:
We debated changing the passing and rush/rec rules. They used to be 1pt per 40 yds passing and 1pt per 20 yds rush/rec. We wanted to change them, but we didn't want to screw up previous scoring records or have game scores go thru the roof (we try to keep them semi-realistic to actual NFL scores). So, we changed to .5 per 20 pass and .5 per 10 rush/rec. Essentially, if a QB throws for 40 yards, he is still getting 1 pt under both systems.
Also, our league had never given points for Defensive SIFs. I proposed .5 pts per SIF........ and it passed. I was reluctant to give 1pt per SIF......for fear that it would backfire on me and screw up the defensive points relative to other positions. 1/2 pt was a "good starting point" to test it out and discuss it again this yr.
Try the .5 method.........Once you get the .5 in the door, then in subsequent years you can talk about whether they want to go full decimal scoring.
My league was against decimal scoring...........So I compromised and convinced them to go to increments using .5 points FOR SOME CATEGORIES.
Example:
We debated changing the passing and rush/rec rules. They used to be 1pt per 40 yds passing and 1pt per 20 yds rush/rec. We wanted to change them, but we didn't want to screw up previous scoring records or have game scores go thru the roof (we try to keep them semi-realistic to actual NFL scores). So, we changed to .5 per 20 pass and .5 per 10 rush/rec. Essentially, if a QB throws for 40 yards, he is still getting 1 pt under both systems.
Also, our league had never given points for Defensive SIFs. I proposed .5 pts per SIF........ and it passed. I was reluctant to give 1pt per SIF......for fear that it would backfire on me and screw up the defensive points relative to other positions. 1/2 pt was a "good starting point" to test it out and discuss it again this yr.
Try the .5 method.........Once you get the .5 in the door, then in subsequent years you can talk about whether they want to go full decimal scoring.
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I think you gotta go decimal as well. In the past 2 years, my league has had about 5-6 games decided by one decimal. That one decimal is one more yard than the other guy got, (ie, If Alexander rushed for 99 yards and Johnson 100 yards, that one yard makes a difference). You should get every single point you are eligible for. Rounding digits makes no sense, and you dont wanna screw yourself out of any yards. I couldn't have it an other way
pinequick
Footballguy
The goal in our league is to try to make our "fantasy" games realistic. The NFL does not award half-points or tenth-points. RBs don't finish games with 114.7 yards rushing, nor do QBs finish with 241.3 yards passing. Likewise, ties are a fact of life in the NFL.All of this makes me favor a whole-point system. Ties, when they rarely occur, just don't bother me that much. It's part of the game.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
If your league can't handle decimal scoring, perhaps going to a scoring system that scores TEAM yardage will work.
So, add all of your players' rushing totals together and drop the decimal, then do the same for receiving and passing yards. Instead of losing 1-9 yards per player, you only lose 1-9 yards for a team...
But, really, how can anybody not be bothered by Rudi getting 40 yards rushing and 0 receiving and still doubling the score of Westbrook getting 19 yards rushing and 19 yards receiving?
40 yards is twice as good as 38 yards?
So, add all of your players' rushing totals together and drop the decimal, then do the same for receiving and passing yards. Instead of losing 1-9 yards per player, you only lose 1-9 yards for a team...
But, really, how can anybody not be bothered by Rudi getting 40 yards rushing and 0 receiving and still doubling the score of Westbrook getting 19 yards rushing and 19 yards receiving?
40 yards is twice as good as 38 yards?
pinequick
Footballguy
So extend the logic. That RB didn't *really* run for 114 yards. He had a couple of runs during the game that went for 7 yards and 5 inches, and one that went 2 yards and a foot, etc. But you know what, they just round it off. He doesn't get credit for those fractions. Too bad for him.Just imagine how many more yards Emmitt would have ended up with had they given him credit for all those 1/2 yards he probably piled up. . .
Red Apples
Footballguy
Decimal pointing sounds suspiciously Canadian.
The Jerk
Footballguy
I didn't really care one way or the other until I saw all the militant posts of the decimal scoring camp in this thread.I have advocated decimal scoring for years in leagues in which people want to differentiate performance to the highest reasonable degree.
I also, however, see merit in keeping the units whole since it is more in line with scores that are common to nearly all professional and recreational sports. Another factor is that even though many leagues are run through websites, whole number scoring makes it easier to keep track of what's happening any given week when you cannot or simply don't want to be hovering by your computer terminal for 11 straight hours on a Sunday.
A question to all of those decimal points despots out there... are you just as adamant to switch your leagues to a "play all teams every week" format? I mean that is clearly the best way to distinguish the best team each week and throughout the season. What's that? You say you don't like the league standings when the first place team is 131-45 in Week 16. Too bad, it's the purest way to decide which team is best. Oh, and you don't need playoffs either. Just have each team play every other team each week and count up the wins for as many weeks as you like.
I think people should be allowed to run their leagues the way they like it best. If that doesn't involve decimal scoring, so be it.
NoFBinLA
Moderator
There are militant posts? I see some disbelief and a few indignant stories (the first of which comes from someone anti-decimal, might I add), but militant?So far the discussion has seemed pretty civil to me. Even the absolutists don't seem to be really insulting or belittling, the hallmark of a militant poster.
For myself I can see both sides of the issue -- I don't think one more accurately matches the NFL over the other - decimal scoring doesn't HAVE to lead to giant scores that resemble basketball games. If your commish does the math right, you can still have a sanely scored game.
As for ties - well, I've seen very few in eaither system - they don't bother me much either.
Like The Jerk said -- run your league however works best for you and yours.
I don't care much about ties. They occasionally happen, and if they do, oh well.
The main reason I am against whole points is that my players are not getting awarded for the yards they've gained. If my RB rushes for 59 yards, why should he only get credited with 50? If my QB passes for 377, why only credit him for 360?
Sure, the NFL doesn't give credit for 36.4 rushing yards, but it does give credit for 36. Not 30 (as he would get with whole point scoring).
And if you're #####ing that you lost your championship by .3 points, but you would've won the game by tiebreaker if you had whole point scoring, boo hoo hoo. Your players had less yards than your opponent's. It's very simple. You lost because your players weren't as good.
The main reason I am against whole points is that my players are not getting awarded for the yards they've gained. If my RB rushes for 59 yards, why should he only get credited with 50? If my QB passes for 377, why only credit him for 360?
Sure, the NFL doesn't give credit for 36.4 rushing yards, but it does give credit for 36. Not 30 (as he would get with whole point scoring).
And if you're #####ing that you lost your championship by .3 points, but you would've won the game by tiebreaker if you had whole point scoring, boo hoo hoo. Your players had less yards than your opponent's. It's very simple. You lost because your players weren't as good.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Easiest way to keep your league mates happy by staying away from decimal scoring and to get your way: change the scoring system.
1 point for every rushing yard
60 points for every TD
1 point for every rushing yard
60 points for every TD
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
I like decimal scoring, and have it it one of my 2 leagues. The one that doesn't use it, probably never will. 14 year old local IDP league that does not use a website. Last year was one of very few where there were no ties. One year, we had 5 ties, but no one had more than 1. (12 teams)
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I don't mind ties, either, but when we expanded to 16 teams 4 years ago, we had an amazing number of them. I still can't get my head wrapped around the math behind this but it happened. So we switched to decimal and have never looked back.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
My league started in 1995 and we switched to decimal in 1997 because we thought giving a guy 1 point for 10 yards rushing and 0 points for 9 yards rushing was dumb.
What I would like to do is extend decimal scoring to field goals:
FGPTS = LENGTH/10 - 1
so a 27 yard FG = 1.7 pts,
37 yard FG = 2.7 pts,
47 yard FG = 3.7 pts
What I would like to do is extend decimal scoring to field goals:
FGPTS = LENGTH/10 - 1
so a 27 yard FG = 1.7 pts,
37 yard FG = 2.7 pts,
47 yard FG = 3.7 pts
Nemesis
Footballguy
Yenrub
Footballguy
I was in a league (work league) that didn’t use decimal scoring nor did they combine the rushing and receiving yards for a player even though they were both 1 point per 10 yards.
I only played one season in that league. It sucked losing games by 1 point when the scoring was like this…..
99 yards rushing = 9 points
27 yards receiving = 2 points
126 total yards = 11 points
90 yards rushing = 9 points
30 yards receiving = 3 points
120 total yards = 12 points
I only played one season in that league. It sucked losing games by 1 point when the scoring was like this…..
99 yards rushing = 9 points
27 yards receiving = 2 points
126 total yards = 11 points
90 yards rushing = 9 points
30 yards receiving = 3 points
120 total yards = 12 points
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Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Actually what Chase is saying has merit, but I would say it is more accurate if you tied with decimal scoring. I am not for breaking ties (hockey is a good example of stupidity), but I am for decimal scoring because that is exact. The very good examples GregR used to show 18 yards worth 0 and 1 yard worth a point are the reasoning why you must use decimal scoring, but leave the ties as it unfair to give a win when you are tied.BTW, the only reason I have ever heard is that it is harder to do the math if you aren't by a computer (easier to compute when you see the stats go by. Outside of that (which shouldn't be a factor) decimal is the only way to go.
Now that's actually an interesting idea. No more complaining that the holder lined the ball up on the 39 yard line instead of the 40. One more yard, one more FF point! Hmm...wouldn't be an issue with fractional FG scoring.But why the "-1" after the calculation. Say you get 3 points up to 39 yards, 4 for 40-49, and 5 for 50+. Shouldn't a 37 yarder be awarded 3.7, and a 47 yarder 4.7?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Just because I hate giving kickers too much value. Giving a kicker 4.5 points for a 45 yard field goal just seems like too much. Subtract 1 and I think it is just right.
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