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Nope. The final 15 (13 + Senior Nominees Madden & Wright) were:Troy Aikman
True. I agree a number of these guys might make it. In particular, I think Irvin & Thurman Thomas will definitely get in soon.EDIT: And I think Andre Reed and Art Monk are likely to make it as well. Probably less likely than Irvin & Thomas, but still probably will get in. As much as people knock Art Monk, he has been a finalist for 6 straight years since he became eligible. That said, both Reed, Monk, and Irvin need to get in before 2010, or they'll probably have to wait a few more years... which means one of them might get squeezed out.
You didn't read my criteria. I specifically said I was trying to identify players who will merit serious consideration and whose careers are over or very nearly over. I'm sure you are right about LT, but he probably won't be eligible for 10+ years. If his career ended today, he almost certainly would not make it. So we have to wait and see how the rest of his career unfolds. Also note that I don't expect Holmes to make the HOF, just that he will merit consideration.
From first year of eligibility group - these are the only guys that I think are HOF worthy:Terrell DavisBruce Matthewsothers that I think should make it in:* Thurman Thomas* Art Monk* Michael Irvin* Russ Grimm* Bob Kuechenberg* Gary Zimmerman* Derrick ThomasRichard Dent Karl MecklenburgLester HayesGil BrandtArt ModellPaul Tagliabue*On 2006 15 finalists list
These appear to be the ones we disagree on. I'm not sure if you read the entire thread or not... did you read the posts on Aeneas Williams and Junior Seau? I'm not sure how anyone could say either of them is not deserving... With Williams, I could see someone saying that he might not make it due to being underappreciated by the voters, but he definitely deserves it.Hard for me to see an argument for keeping Brown out as well... he is #2 in receiving yards, #4 in receptions, and #6 in receiving TDs, made 9 Pro Bowls, and was also an excellent kick returner (1 All Pro Selection).
Passing Rushing Year Team League GP Comp Att Pct Yds TD INT Att Yds TD 1985 NJ Generals USFL - 134 281 47.6 2109 13 14 - - - 1986 Chi Bears NFL 4 23 46 50.0 361 3 2 9 36 1 1987 Chi Bears NFL 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1987 NE Patriots NFL 1 15 25 60.0 199 1 0 6 43 0 1988 NE Patriots NFL 11 92 179 51.4 1150 8 10 38 179 1 1989 NE Patriots NFL 5 36 91 39.6 493 2 4 16 87 0 1990 BC Lions CFL - 207 392 52.8 2960 16 19 - - - 1991 BC Lions CFL - 466 730 63.8 6619 38 24 - - - 1992 Cal Stampeders CFL - 396 688 57.5 5945 32 30 - - - 1993 Cal Stampeders CFL - 416 703 59.1 6092 44 17 - - - 1994 Cal Stampeders CFL - 403 659 59.1 5726 48 19 - - - 1995 Cal Stampeders CFL - 223 332 67.1 2788 16 5 - - - 1996 Tor Argonauts CFL - 434 667 65.0 5720 29 17 - - - 1997 Tor Argonauts CFL - 430 673 63.9 5505 47 24 - - - 1998 Buf Bills NFL 13 202 354 57.1 2711 20 11 48 248 1 1999 Buf Bills NFL 15 264 478 55.2 3171 19 16 88 467 1 2000 Buf Bills NFL 11 132 231 57.1 1700 8 3 36 161 1 2001 SD Chargers NFL 16 294 521 56.4 3464 15 18 53 192 1 2002 SD Chargers NFL 1 3 11 27.3 64 0 0 1 6 0 2003 SD Chargers NFL 7 91 167 54.5 1097 9 4 33 168 2 2004 SD Chargers NFL 2 20 38 52.6 276 1 0 5 39 2 2005 NE Patriots NFL 5 5 10 50.0 29 0 0 5 -1 0
The HOF does not officially recognize CFL and USFL stats, so no, he doesn't stand a chance.Utter Chaos said:
been down this roadDebate I enjoyed in the past but...so not going down that road again
Seau needs to be updated. If he retires (for good) after this season he'll be eligible for the class of '13
Yep, I missed that in the update. Fixed.
Addressed Smith in post #9 and probably others. He doesn't make the cut IMO. I don't think Bailey is on the list yet because of this qualifier from the original post:
I'd be interested to see if most feel that he has already done enough for strong consideration, even if he retired after this season. (Everyone besides SSOG.
)Same with Morten Andersen.
I'd put him in if he retired right now, but I've always been more about peak value than longevity. If someone was the no-question best player in the NFL for 3 years, but only had a 6 year career, then I'd much rather see him in the HoF than a guy who was league-average for every single year of his 18-year career, but who finished with double the career numbers. I mean, someone like a Laveranues Coles is a pretty average guy. If he somehow managed to play until he was 50 and set every receiving record ever, would he be HoF worthy? No chance in hell, as far as I'm concerned.I think Bailey's peak value (the last 2-3 seasons) left him as the best defensive player in the entire NFL. I also think he had enough very, very good seasons (the entire rest of his career) in addition to that to fill out one nice HoF resume. Maybe not a first-ballot HoF resume, but enough to get him in if he suffered a career-ending injury tomorrow. Besides, I feel like at least one CB from this generation has to get in, and if not Champ, then who? Ty Law, maybe? No one else is even in the discussion, as far as I'm concerned (Ronde Barber comes closest, but he's nowhere near HoF caliber). Here's a comparison between Law and Bailey:Law-12.5 seasons180 games792 tackles5 sacks51 ints7 TDs152 passes defensed5 pro bowls2 All-ProsBailey-8.5 seasons134 games606 tackles1 sack40 ints4 TDs142 passes defensed7 pro bowls3 All-Pros2-time DPoY runner-upLaw has the better career numbers, but Bailey's numbers are better across the board on a per-game and per-season basis, and Bailey has received more accolades in 8 years than Law has in 13. Law is definitely helped by his rings, but Bailey was perceived as the better CB, and those 7 pro bowls are extremely hard to ignore (to compare this to all of the pure CBs who are either in the HoF or who will probably make it: Night Train also had 7 appearances, Prime Time had 8, Rod Woodson had 11, Blount had 5, Herb Adderly had 5, Lem Barney had 7, Willie Brown had 9, Mike Haynes had 9, Jimmy Johnson had 5, Aeneas Williams had 8). I question whether there's ever been a CB with 7 pro bowl appearances who DIDN'T make the HoF.Addressed Smith in post #9 and probably others. He doesn't make the cut IMO. I don't think Bailey is on the list yet because of this qualifier from the original post:I'd be interested to see if most feel that he has already done enough for strong consideration, even if he retired after this season. (Everyone besides SSOG.
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