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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (5 Viewers)

Ok- I agree with GPJ about the quibbles: obvious little finger last second save, rickon not serpentining, dany hanging out chit-chatting while the city is destroyed (by fire catapults... on wood ships?), snow charging solo and destroying their agreed upon only chance of survival... plus- someone remind me- why didn't sansa bring up the reinforcements that were arriving? "btw- if we wait a few days, we'll get a bunch of cavalry to help... but nobody asked me, so go ahead and get everybody killed".

those said- this is the first time I can remember watching my tv and wishing I was watching on a movie-sized screen instead... it was visually just stunning. the scene with Davos standing against the rising sun had my jaw dropping. and then the obvious and best filmed battle possibly ever... wow. 

I was really happy to see all 3 dragons finally flying together as adults- were the other two freed by a serendipitous catapult strike (hmmm... lucky, lucky)? I think it can be argued that with all the fire flying around at night, Dany needed the dragons to be seen clearly during the day to elicit maximum freak-out response from the masters and their boats, which would explain delaying. even though I had expected straight along the dragons to make strafing runs and just take out the navy- good call by whoever in here said that Dany would keep and use the ships instead. also loved seeing tyrion turn the screws on the 3 masters when the tide had turned.

and even though we all "knew" little finger was going to come in at the 11th hour- there was more than a tiny bit of me thinking "maybe Martin and crew are going to #### with this expectation and let Ramsey win and have snow come back to life and turn the tide... or.. or... or". the sign of quality writing that even with an obvious result heading our way, I still thought anything was possible.

and yeah- sansa bringing the crazy... whoa. is she more about the revenge and maybe finally getting to the queen that had always wanted to be than doing what's right for all that's left of her family (jon)?

amazing stuff and fantastic episode.

so... moving forward...

what's left for next episode that we didn't see this one? arya's story is done for the season, IMO. Bran? I'd guess the episode closes with him doing something up in the north. also have a bit of Dany and her army on the ships heading to westeros. probably show sansa setting up house in winterfell and marrying little finger? or did she play him? none of that is going to be too much action.

have to figure the main element is going to be the kings' landing story with the sparrow, queen and cercei... honestly have no idea where that's heading, but I'm figuring that Marge is going to finally play her cards- really interested to see what they are and what affect they have. will it be enough to ruin the sparrow and their grip on the city, leaving next season for something else like dany vs westeros and the north vs teh white walkers? I forget- do we have to wait a whole year for the next season? dammit, if so.

 
thecatch said:
yeah, she spent the first couple of seasons making terrible decisions. And I'm not convinced she knows how to play the game. She was useless on the Stark recruiting trip and I don't think she thought this Littlefinger deal through all the way. 
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She had no choice but make that deal.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Someone further up really nicely set out the rules of succession.... what is the lay of the land for the Starks now in terms of who has claim to rule assuming Bran is out of the picture as a future wizard/Raven and not a lord?
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I'm assuming it's anyone who marries Sansa? That's what was established by Varys a few seasons ago in terms of why Little Finger was so eager to get his hands (and other parts of his anatomy) on her.  

 
Rick James said:
Actually, Sansa keeping the KOTV as her secret won the battle. If she told Jon about them, he would have waited for them to arrive and join ranks. Bolton would have seen this and stayed inside Winterfell. I doubt the good guys win in that scenario.
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I kind of buy that- but there was certainly better odds with the knights at their side than not. 

plus- they've got a giant to get into winterfell, so standard siege procedures are a little different. but of course, he doesn't have any weapons or use of a something to shield himself (like a boat), so I guess that's out.

 
El Floppo said:
honestly have no idea where that's heading, but I'm figuring that Marge is going to finally play her cards- really interested to see what they are and what affect they have. will it be enough to ruin the sparrow and their grip on the city, leaving next season for something else like dany vs westeros and the north vs teh white walkers?
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What gets me about King Landing right now is that the city and kingdom IRL would be in utter turmoil. They've been playing their little games with High Sparrow and Dorne and Tommen and meanwhile they are legitimately looking at two different armies possibly invading them plus no Dorne at their back (and no other allies that I can see). They're obsessed with show trials and religious zealotry and the martial side of things - the Lannisters - are either locked up (Cersei), neutered (Tommen) or exiled (Tyrion, Jaime). They seem utterly and totally screwed.

 
Loved it, agree that it's one of the best TV episodes I've ever seen. But no one saw Ramsey taking dead aim at WunWun?? 

Sansa setting up Ramsey to be eaten by his own dogs was awesome though. Good justice. Does this mean that Jamie takes the Lannister army and attack Winterfell now?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
What gets me about King Landing right now is that the city and kingdom IRL would be in utter turmoil. They've been playing their little games with High Sparrow and Dorne and Tommen and meanwhile they are legitimately looking at two different armies possibly invading them plus no Dorne at their back (and no other allies that I can see). They're obsessed with show trials and religious zealotry and the martial side of things - the Lannisters - are either locked up (Cersei), neutered (Tommen) or exiled (Tyrion, Jaime). They seem utterly and totally screwed.
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It looks like the battle for the iron throne will be a blow out victory for the Mother of Dragons. 

 
There has been a lot of talk of wildfire at kings landing it seems.   I got a feeling the place gets burned to the ground this week taking the faith and everyone else Including the king with it.

This also clears the way for the main white Walker vs man fight over the last 15 episodes.

 
Chadstroma said:
Because you also have Unsullied, Second Sons and a Dothraki horde to move across the ocean. Are they going to take turns riding three dragons ferrying them back and forth? 
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My point was fly in do your stuff then get them over there.

pretty sure you can win with just the dragons

 
Funkley said:
Loved it, agree that it's one of the best TV episodes I've ever seen. But no one saw Ramsey taking dead aim at WunWun?? 

Sansa setting up Ramsey to be eaten by his own dogs was awesome though. Good justice. Does this mean that Jamie takes the Lannister army and attack Winterfell now?
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I don't think there is any imperative for the Lannisters to worry about the North right now. Dorne would easily be the more immediate issue.

 
Funkley said:
Loved it, agree that it's one of the best TV episodes I've ever seen. But no one saw Ramsey taking dead aim at WunWun?? 

Sansa setting up Ramsey to be eaten by his own dogs was awesome though. Good justice. Does this mean that Jamie takes the Lannister army and attack Winterfell now?
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oh... right.... definitely could be on the cards- hadn't thought about that.

also loved the ramsey death- it head to be big and just right, and they nailed it IMO. although I do agree that having the wolf eat him would have been $$. but him losing everything, even the last things on earth that he though would be loyal to him- because of his own moves (starving them)- was perfect and fitting revenge.. plus seeing jon wail on him got to get the rage/guts part of the revenge on top of the intellectual one.

 
None_More_Black said:
Amazing effects for a television show both the battle scenes and the dragons.  Only thing I did not like is they made Ramsey out to be kind of a coward during the battle while Jon snow was in the thick of things. In the past, Ramsey always came across as a fearless sadistic killer.  Would have liked to have seen that side of him one last time outside of killing Rickard.   
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Ramsey was always in complete control of every scenario you've seen him be this 'fearless' sadistic killer in. There's no possible way he, or anyone else, could be in control in that ####storm, thus he wasn't going to expose himself to it.

 
Funkley said:
Loved it, agree that it's one of the best TV episodes I've ever seen. But no one saw Ramsey taking dead aim at WunWun?? 

Sansa setting up Ramsey to be eaten by his own dogs was awesome though. Good justice. Does this mean that Jamie takes the Lannister army and attack Winterfell now?
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Based on previews it looks like the freys and lannisters are celebrating in the hall of the red wedding. 

If cersei finds out littlefinger joined forces with sansa and retook winterfell i could definetly see that as the next logical step for the lannister frey army. She is pretty tied up in her own #### storm right now though

 
I almost didn't catch the Onion Knight looking at Melissandre in a meaningful fashion while holding the deer carving he made for Stannis' daughter.

I think Davos takes her out in the season finale.  She has no place to go in the story.  

 
The special effects in the battle were quite amazing... definitely on par with an action movie which is pretty incredible. I forget sometimes that this is a tv show - check out special effects from other top shows like NCIS and you see how amazing what they're doing with this show actually is in comparison. 

 
massraider said:
I almost didn't catch the Onion Knight looking at Melissandre in a meaningful fashion while holding the deer carving he made for Stannis' daughter.

I think Davos takes her out in the season finale.  She has no place to go in the story.  
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It was surprising that that little wood carving didnt burn up with the girl, but it was a good way to finally alert Davos as to what happened. I always thought it was going to be a soldier that survived the battle somehow meeting up with him and telling him. The way they did it, with the carving, reminded you of how much davos loved shireen

 
massraider said:
I almost didn't catch the Onion Knight looking at Melissandre in a meaningful fashion while holding the deer carving he made for Stannis' daughter.

I think Davos takes her out in the season finale.  She has no place to go in the story.  
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had meant to bring that up, but totally forgot. fire crotch is the one who can bring back jon- I think davos is history, mostly because we all like him and george rr knows it. 

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Based on previews it looks like the freys and lannisters are celebrating in the hall of the red wedding. 

If cersei finds out littlefinger joined forces with sansa and retook winterfell i could definetly see that as the next logical step for the lannister frey army. She is pretty tied up in her own #### storm right now though
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Cersei has no power anymore and Jamie's only concern is restoring Cersei to power. Both of them have far more pressing matters to deal with than anything that may be going on at Winterfell, assuming news of that even gets to them anytime soon.

 
El Floppo said:
had meant to bring that up, but totally forgot. fire crotch is the one who can bring back jon- I think davos is history, mostly because we all like him and george rr knows it. 
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I think they tied that off nicely when Jon made a point to tell her not to bring him back.  And she refused. 

This way,  next week,  after Davos kills her,  and people come in to complain that Jon can't be brought back anymore (and we will never see the best boobs in the show again) because Davos killed her,  we can all remind them that Jon told her not to.  

It's almost like that scene was inserted to head off message board arguments.  

 
Davos is such a great character. He could've completely flipped his #### when he found out what happened to Shireen. It would've been understandable since he genuinely loved her like she was his own daughter. But he knew there was something far more important than his own feelings that needed to be dealt with first. Sure hope he isn't killed off anytime soon. 

 
So, moving forward, once Tommen dies to fulfill the prophecy, I don't see anyone really standing up to Daenerys when she lands on Westeros with her Dragons, and her Horde, and her Unsullied, and her Sellswords.

Dorne will fall in line, and may even provide logistical support via Varys.  Iron Islands have already pledged to support her.  I can't see Jon/Sansa and the North providing any obstacles to the Iron Throne - the only question really being how vindictive Daenerys wants to be for Ned taking part in the rebellion - but since Ned is dead, I imagine they all let bygone be bygones.  Then you do have the Lannisters and Tyrells - but when Tommen is dead, neither have any legitimate claim to the throne - will they fight Daenerys?  Seems like that is a losing battle, with no popular support.

Littlefinger knows he can't win the battle, plus he is more of a schemer than a fighter.  So, he will try to figure a different path to the throne - presumably through marrying Sansa, and taking de facto control of the North, and then biding his time.  I think Littlefinger is either a White Walker in disguise - or he is going to eventually die a gruesome death at the hands of the White Walkers (or Sansa).

The other factors will be that I do think that Cersei is going to burn Kings Landing, so its not really going to be worth fighting for.  And, soon enough, everyone will have their hands full with White Walkers and the army of the dead.

 
massraider said:
I think they tied that off nicely when Jon made a point to tell her not to bring him back.  And she refused. 

This way,  next week,  after Davos kills her,  and people come in to complain that Jon can't be brought back anymore (and we will never see the best boobs in the show again) because Davos killed her,  we can all remind them that Jon told her not to.  

It's almost like that scene was inserted to head off message board arguments.  
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lol.

or her refusal means that she WILL bring him back- against his will. 

 
Mile High said:
It looks like the battle for the iron throne will be a blow out victory for the Mother of Dragons. 
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Looking at it on paper it should be. I suppose the Tyrells are a wild card but they're not exactly in love with the Lannisters these days, Cersei & Tommen really look like they're on an island and completely oblivious to the Storm that is coming.

 
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I don't think the Witch will fight if Davos comes to do her in.  They have made it a point to show her as being very weary this season, in contrast to how strong and confident she was previously.  

When Jon was getting buried I was a bit worried they were going to lose the fight and he would somehow escape because he was buried on the battlefield.  Glad to see Ramsay get his instead.  

 
Whomper said:
 I did find one mistake though. When they had the meeting with Ramsey before the battle, Sansa says you will die tomorrow to Ramsey and rides away . After that, Ramsey says that he hasn't fed his dogs in 7 days. Fast forward to when Sansa is about to watch him die and she repeats the line " you said it yourself, you haven't fed the dogs in 7 days." She wasn't there when he said that. I guess she could have been told off screen but she didn't say it like that. 
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Not too hard to imagine that Sansa would ask Jon what the hell happened after she rode off after telling Bolton he was going to die the next day,

 
Rick James said:
hilariously false. She essentially got her father killed by blabbing his plans to Cersei. 
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Ned's naive stupidity was his downfall, and that of his family - with a large assist from his wife and oldest son, also ridiculously naive and stupid.  Sansa has survived, gained powerful allies and has now re-taken Winterfell despite Jon Snow showing some of that naive Stark devotion to "honor" that killed the others. Regarding her betrayal to Cersei in the first season, one has to consider that she was 11 years old, and her father threw her into the Lanister snake pit but at the same time kept her completely in the dark as to what he knew about the Lanisters. Even his plans to send her and Arya back to Winterfell were never explained to the girls, as he stupidly presented it to her over breakfast, then sent her back to Cersei. He also unbelievably warned Cersei of his plans, stupidly trusted Baelish, among other naive mistakes that caused his death and scattered his family. And what if he had succeeded in sending Sansa and Arya back to Winterfell? He'd certainly have been killed anyway, and they would have likely met an even worse fate. In the end, her decision was probably for the best. She played Joffrey, Tyrion, Baelish, Hound, Greyjoy and Ramsey - really nearly everyone she's encountered has ended up supporting her or at least never reading her correctly. 

 
Looking back at the start of it all its kind of funny it started with the King going to Winterfell after ten years and it's like nobody knew what was going on or hadn't seen each other for a decade.  Now we got Ravens and Greyjoys super ships that go from one edge of the world to the other in one episode.

 
El Floppo said:
oh... right.... definitely could be on the cards- hadn't thought about that.

also loved the ramsey death- it head to be big and just right, and they nailed it IMO. although I do agree that having the wolf eat him would have been $$. but him losing everything, even the last things on earth that he though would be loyal to him- because of his own moves (starving them)- was perfect and fitting revenge.. plus seeing jon wail on him got to get the rage/guts part of the revenge on top of the intellectual one.
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Which wolf would that be?  I think the only one not dead is Nymeria.

 
the moops said:
Not too hard to imagine that Sansa would ask Jon what the hell happened after she rode off after telling Bolton he was going to die the next day,
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Not so sure. She said " You said it yourself in your own words" as if she was there . No biggie. I just think they goofed

 
If I was going to a big battle where lots of people will die, I wouldn't bring my dog either.  Maybe Jon just really loves his doge.   :wub:

 
I also think we see Cersai burn KL with the wildfire stores that are supposedly hidden throughout the city.  I can't really think of a way out for her besides this.  Jamie won't make it back in time.  With the city burning and in chaos her and the zombie bodyguard will be able to take out who they need to.

 
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