Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (3 Viewers)

[modogg]

How bleeping dare you cut that episode 10 min early with that cliffhanger......

lol, i said the exact same thing. Here is my prediction. they call the mountain to fight for the court, and prince O jumps in and says he wants to fight for Tyrion so he can get his hands on the mountain. BANG!

 

[TLEF316]

seems pretty obvious that the trial by combat will be the fight they showed in the pre-season trailers. They also showed one of the likely combatants in the previews for next week.

Trying to keep things spoiler-free for those who aren't even watching previews

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

But if Jamie is Tyrion's champion, all Tywin's family hopes suddenly ride on Jamie winning. A loss means all his male progeny are dead.

 

[modogg]

so what was the story with Sansa? i guess we will hear more from her, but was she forced to do that, was it out of spite, or lot of gold coming her way?

what castle is Ramsey going to have reek storm?

 

[modogg]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

But if Jamie is Tyrion's champion, all Tywin's family hopes suddenly ride on Jamie winning. A loss means all his male progeny are dead.

hmm good point. i don't know if Tywin would allow that

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

But if Jamie is Tyrion's champion, all Tywin's family hopes suddenly ride on Jamie winning. A loss means all his male progeny are dead.

hmm good point. i don't know if Tywin would allow that

Might be that Tyrion doped that out when Jamie told him he'd be sent to the wall and hatched this entire plan based around this fact.

 

[The Captain]

Please let Tyrion fight Tywin!!!

He isn't going to fight, Jamie is as his champion (or at least I would assume so). Question is who represents the crown? The other kings guard dude? Or does the imp name Oberin and then the crown names the Mountian?

This I like. I could see it happening.The Mountain/Oberin fight has been coming all season. This is must be how it happens.

Tyrion is a smart mofo

 

[Usual21]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

No. Bronn obviously lied to him when he said that he saw Shae leave on the boat.

 

[bushdocda]

Freaking whores.

 

[The Ref]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

No. Bronn obviously lied to him when he said that he saw Shae leave on the boat.

I distinctly remember Tywin saying something to the effect of "shut all the gates AND the harbor" when Joffery was killed. Point being she may have got on a ship but got found in the aftermath. Who knows what happened next (if thats what happened).

 

[The Ref]

so what was the story with Sansa? i guess we will hear more from her, but was she forced to do that, was it out of spite, or lot of gold coming her way?

what castle is Ramsey going to have reek storm?

I think its well documented at this point that Sansa wore the necklance to get the poison in the hands of Mommy Tyrell at the wedding. She was ignorant.

 

[modogg]

so what was the story with Sansa? i guess we will hear more from her, but was she forced to do that, was it out of spite, or lot of gold coming her way?

what castle is Ramsey going to have reek storm?

I think its well documented at this point that Sansa wore the necklance to get the poison in the hands of Mommy Tyrell at the wedding. She was ignorant.

oh, wrong S name. I meant Shea

 

[modogg]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

No. Bronn obviously lied to him when he said that he saw Shae leave on the boat.

I don't think Bronn would have lied to him, but that is an interesting take. I remember Pod said Bronn wasn't allowed to see him, so my guess is that he is somewhere else spending time. i don't think Bronn wuold have been that far ahead considering Joffrey wasn't killed until a few hours later (i believe)

 

[Chadstroma]

so what was the story with Sansa? i guess we will hear more from her, but was she forced to do that, was it out of spite, or lot of gold coming her way?

what castle is Ramsey going to have reek storm?

I would think that the castle would be Pyke.

 

[timschochet]

Only partway through tonight's show, but I'm glad we didn't have to see a full frontal of Theon. Kinda dreading that.

 

[culdeus]

So they turn the dogs loose and grey joys split? Horrible cut away there imo.

 

[Josie Maran]

So they turn the dogs loose and grey joys split? Horrible cut away there imo.

She came to get Theon. Theon wasn't there. She say adios.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Please let Tyrion fight Tywin!!!

He isn't going to fight, Jamie is as his champion (or at least I would assume so). Question is who represents the crown? The other kings guard dude? Or does the imp name Oberin and then the crown names the Mountian?

This I like. I could see it happening.The Mountain/Oberin fight has been coming all season. This is must be how it happens.

Tyrion is a smart mofo

I agree this is the most likely scenario.

 

[Wingnut]

So they turn the dogs loose and grey joys split? Horrible cut away there imo.

She came to get Theon. Theon wasn't there. She say adios.

I was disappointed she let him pull out the key, talk for a minute and then start to unlock the cage. She could have split his wig while he was taking his time.

 

[Psychopav]

So they turn the dogs loose and grey joys split? Horrible cut away there imo.

She came to get Theon. Theon wasn't there. She say adios.

I was disappointed she let him pull out the key, talk for a minute and then start to unlock the cage. She could have split his wig while he was taking his time.

But then who would have sung "Your Body is a Wonderland"?

 

[timschochet]

Yeah, her leaving didn't make sense to me. She wasn't rescuing Theon for Theon's sake; she was doing it for the honor of her house. It would have been more true to her character, IMO, to either knock him out and take him with her, or to slit his throat and take the body with her. Or to die trying. But either way, she should not have left the way she did-

.....unless there was something else that happened during that scene that the writers don't want us to know about yet.

 

[EYLive]

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

 

[Raider Nation]

"The Laws of Gods and Men" deals with Tyrion's trial for the murder of King Joffrey, and it's structured almost identically to the episode in which Joffrey died: the first half bouncing around the globe, often visiting characters we haven't seen much of this season (these two episodes are, in fact, the only appearances so far this year for Ramsay Snow and Theon), before the entire second half takes place in King's Landing.Though the latter half of "The Lion and the Rose" was essentially one long scene divided into little vignettes between different characters attending the wedding, we get more differentiated sequences here, including a Small Council session, Oberyn getting to know Varys, Jaime visiting Tyrion in his cell, Jaime negotiating for his brother's life with Tywin, and two different phases of the trial. But the effect is the same, in the way that both the level of tension and the power of the emotional moments are allowed to build in a way the show often can't when it's flitting from one location to the next.

Before Shae makes a surprise appearance to testify against Tyrion (more on that in a moment), so much of what makes the trial so fascinating are those constant cuts to Jaime watching the action and recognizing what a sham of a mockery of a travesty the whole thing is. Tyrion recognizes that from the start and is barely making an effort — the only times he speaks up in the early going are when Meryn Trant is only telling half the story of Tyrion slapping Joffrey, and when his pal Varys sadly turns against him (Varys believes in Tyrion's goodness, but can also recognize a lost cause) — but it takes Jaime longer to recognize how rigged this particular game is. And we get to appreciate that transformation bit by bit, even as Bryan Cogman's script turns into a terrific, if warped, trip down memory lane as Trant, Cersei, Pycelle and others bring up Tyrion's transgressions — some imagined, some exaggerated, some real — against the sainted King Joffrey.

And in showing us all the testimony and Tyrion's defeated, indifferent reaction to most of it, the episode sets us up beautifully for the gut punch that is Shae's entrance. We were told several episodes ago that she had safely made her way onto a ship to Braavos, so either she got cold feet, or Tywin or Cersei arranged for her return. And it's here that Tyrion's cruel-to-be-kind approach to protecting his lover appears to be coming back to bite him terribly, as Shae comes across not as someone who has been coerced into giving false testimony, but someone who relishes the opportunity, given the last conversation they had and her previous fears about Tyrion's affections transferring to Sansa.

I didn't expect Peter Dinklage to spend the entire season in a cell, but the story has understandably kept him sidelined for the last few weeks. Here, though, he got a chance to shine (as of now, this is his clear Emmy submission episode) in an episode that played as a dark mirror of his trial in the Eyrie back in season 1. There, he was afraid for his life but also reasonably confident he could outwit crazy Lady Arryn and her smug knights. Here, he starts out having given up, knowing both how powerful his father and sister are and how much they despise him. When Jaime explains the compromise he reached with Tywin, Tyrion rightly recognizes it as the same deal Ned Stark was offered, but seems willing to take his chances with it. But then Shae comes in, and his world turns upside down. Tyrion understands a life where his father and sister resent him, even one where people laugh at him, as the crowd does as Shae talks about their first night together(*). But a world where Shae has turned so completely and utterly against him — where his public humiliation and impending death are now tied to such betrayal from the one good and safe thing he once had? That utterly breaks him, and leads to the incredible thing that happens next, when Tyrion tears into the crowd and then demands a trial by combat.

(*) What makes that so effective, as both convincing testimony and something that will hurt Tyrion emotionally, is that, like most of what's said on the witness stand, it has elements of truth. Bronn did take Shae away from a knight in another tent, Tyrion really did ask her to make love to him like it was his last night on earth, just as he made the threat against Cersei that she quotes back to the court (albeit in an altered context). Lies are always easier when they have some honesty backing them up.

I don't know if the rules in this trial are the same as they were for the one in the Eyrie, and whether Tyrion can select a champion or has to fight for himself. If the former, and if Bronn's not available again, it ought to put Jaime in a very precarious position, and one where he could be finally forced to take a very public stance with his brother against his father and sister/lover. (And it could give us a chance to see how well he's learned to fight left-handed.) If the latter, well... I suppose Tyrion figures better a swift death than suffering more heartbreak and embarrassment on his way to decapitation. And even though it's a trick he played once before, the stakes here feel so much higher, and Dinklage's performance made it all more intense and thrilling.

Marvelous episode. Even though the first half featured a lot of the B-team, those scenes looked wonderful, and the show always picks up such steam when it gets to stay in one place for a while as it did here.

Some other thoughts:

* Last week, I noted that the opening credits had been featuring the same locations on the map all season, even when we didn't go to Dragonstone (or when we did go to the Eyrie). Tonight, we got our first new map locale since the premiere: Braavos, with both the Iron Bank represented by the coin rolling along the walls, and the city's production of skilled fighters represented by the giant statue with the broken sword.

* Speaking of that statue, between the CGI shot of Davos and Stannis sailing Braavos, and the shot of one of Dany's dragons soaring through the sky to burn the poor goatherd's livestock, it's safe to say that the show's visual effects people get better at their craft (or get better technology and/or more money to play with) each season.

* What an unexpected pleasure to get Mycroft Holmes himself — aka "Sherlock" co-creator and frequent "Doctor Who" writer Mark Gatiss — as one of the Iron Bank's representatives, who allowed himself to be charmed by the surprisingly smooth tongue of Ser Davos into financing Stannis' latest campaign against the Lannisters. Stannis is lucky to have the old smuggler by his side, just as we're lucky to have such a charming character to appear in virtually every scene that also features one of the show's dullest major players.

* In general, I view everything involving Ramsay Snow and "Reek" to be a case of the show wallowing in the sadism of this world a bit much for my taste. But what I did find interesting here was the contrast within the episode between Theon, who was so ruined by his castration and the torture that came with it that he has ceased to function as a person; and Varys, who claims to have had no interest in sex before his own mutilation, and who has been strangely liberated by it. Wondering if we'll ever get a scene in the show featuring the two of them and Grey Worm, or any other member of the Unsullied. Do they do support groups in Westeros?

* It took Yara quite a while to make it from the Pyke to Dreadfort for that rescue attempt. Now that she's given her mutilated, brainwashed brother up for dead, I wonder what role she and her nasty old man will play in the story.

* Our brief stop in Meereen shows that Dany still has a lot of on-the-job training to do as queen — and in an episode where many characters had their full titles announced, hers is now the longest by far — not always thinking through her decisions and then being easily swayed about changing some of them.

* And speaking of the Mother of Dragons, we see in the Small Council meeting that Cersei remains smugly incorrect about the threat that exists to the east, even as Tywin and Oberyn are well aware that something has to be done. That Varys is assigned to have spies infiltrate her camp should be interesting, given that at times we've seen him be very supportive of Dany's return to Westeros (he conspired with Illyrio to protect her early in season 1), and at others has worked against her (arranging the assassination attempt that Jorah foiled). Which way will he lean this time?

* That scene also gives a sense of how slowly news can travel in Westeros, as Tywin is only now hearing of the Hound (with a minor assist from Arya) killing those soldiers at the end of the season premiere.

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

God you people are horrible with your predictions.

 

[shadyridr]

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

yeah they should omit all the great acting scenes

 

[Mario Kart]

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

Just tell us who wins the throne and we can all save hours of watching this horrible show for the next couple years.

 

[TLEF316]

Obviously he's not a likable character, but I was still kinda holding out hope that Theo was sandbagging with this whole Reek thing. I thought maybe he was waiting until he had the opportunity to cut off the *******'s balls. Too bad.

Varys betraying Tyrion wasn't that surprising to me. With Tommen on the throne, the kingdoms are finally in the hands of a seemingly decent person. Refusing to testify against Tyrion would have brought negative repercussions, so its was kind of the no-brainer move. I do hope that Bronn hasn't flipped though.

At this point, the idea that Dany can't control her dragons is the show's biggest disappointment to me. Her ancestors could ride them into battle but she can't even keep them from terrorizing the country side? Hopefully something happens to change that. It also seems like they quadruple in size every time we see them. How much real time has supposedly passed since the beginning of the show? (probably something only book readers could answer, although I read the first 2 books and have absolutely no idea)

 

[Otis]

Fantastic episode.

 

[shadyridr]

So it was Tywin's plan all along to convince Jamie to quit the Kings Guard and continue the family name and that was the point of this trial, right?

 

[culdeus]

So it was Tywin's plan all along to convince Jamie to quit the Kings Guard and continue the family name and that was the point of this trial, right?

Seems that way.

 

[shadyridr]

I thought the whole rescuing Theon scene was very dumb. First they build it up with this great speech by his sister and youre getting all amped for the rescue and then all Ramsay does is unlock the gates with the dogs and they run away with their tails between their legs like little #####es? They had swords. Are dogs immune to getting stabbed? Also Ramsay is fighting with no armor and survives? Yet they kill all his armored guards? He must be the best fighter in Westeros.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Yeah the Theon stuff was beyond dumb

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Obviously he's not a likable character, but I was still kinda holding out hope that Theo was sandbagging with this whole Reek thing. I thought maybe he was waiting until he had the opportunity to cut off the *******'s balls. Too bad.

Varys betraying Tyrion wasn't that surprising to me. With Tommen on the throne, the kingdoms are finally in the hands of a seemingly decent person. Refusing to testify against Tyrion would have brought negative repercussions, so its was kind of the no-brainer move. I do hope that Bronn hasn't flipped though.

At this point, the idea that Dany can't control her dragons is the show's biggest disappointment to me. Her ancestors could ride them into battle but she can't even keep them from terrorizing the country side? Hopefully something happens to change that. It also seems like they quadruple in size every time we see them. How much real time has supposedly passed since the beginning of the show? (probably something only book readers could answer, although I read the first 2 books and have absolutely no idea)

Spoiler

Not telling.

 

[swirvenirvin]

I thought the whole rescuing Theon scene was very dumb. First they build it up with this great speech by his sister and youre getting all amped for the rescue and then all Ramsay does is unlock the gates with the dogs and they run away with their tails between their legs like little #####es? They had swords. Are dogs immune to getting stabbed? Also Ramsay is fighting with no armor and survives? Yet they kill all his armored guards? He must be the best fighter in Westeros.

When he first arrived how was he all cut up? He was screwing his wh0re and then next thing you know he shows up in the dungeon or whatever it was. Did he already kill some people?

 

[Chaka]

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

yeah they should omit all the great acting scenes

Dinklage deserves another Emmy just for his reactions while Shae was testifying. Brilliant stuff.

 

[Usual21]

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

yeah they should omit all the great acting scenes

Dinklage deserves another Emmy just for his reactions while Shae was testifying. Brilliant stuff.

When he begged her "Shae........Please don't." and she replies, "I'm a whore, remember?". Brilliant. You could tell he was a broken man. Then he turned the corner and said "F this". The scene should've been preceded by the typical "For Awards Consideration" tag. This scene bagged him the Emmy.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I thought the whole rescuing Theon scene was very dumb. First they build it up with this great speech by his sister and youre getting all amped for the rescue and then all Ramsay does is unlock the gates with the dogs and they run away with their tails between their legs like little #####es? They had swords. Are dogs immune to getting stabbed? Also Ramsay is fighting with no armor and survives? Yet they kill all his armored guards? He must be the best fighter in Westeros.

When he first arrived how was he all cut up? He was screwing his wh0re and then next thing you know he shows up in the dungeon or whatever it was. Did he already kill some people?

Yes.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Can't believe they actually showed the Iron Bank/Bankers. How stupid do they think we are?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Can't believe they actually showed the Iron Bank/Bankers. How stupid do they think we are?

have you read some of the questions in here?

 

[parrot]

so what was the story with Sansa? i guess we will hear more from her, but was she forced to do that, was it out of spite, or lot of gold coming her way?

what castle is Ramsey going to have reek storm?

I would think that the castle would be Pyke.

Or the one Roose told him to take to prove himself a Bolton back in episode 2.

 

[KarmaPolice]

so what was the story with Sansa? i guess we will hear more from her, but was she forced to do that, was it out of spite, or lot of gold coming her way?

what castle is Ramsey going to have reek storm?

I would think that the castle would be Pyke.

Or the one Roose told him to take to prove himself a Bolton back in episode 2.

that is what I assumed as well. pyke seems a bit much

 

[culdeus]

I thought the whole rescuing Theon scene was very dumb. First they build it up with this great speech by his sister and youre getting all amped for the rescue and then all Ramsay does is unlock the gates with the dogs and they run away with their tails between their legs like little #####es? They had swords. Are dogs immune to getting stabbed? Also Ramsay is fighting with no armor and survives? Yet they kill all his armored guards? He must be the best fighter in Westeros.

When he first arrived how was he all cut up? He was screwing his wh0re and then next thing you know he shows up in the dungeon or whatever it was. Did he already kill some people?

Could be the worst directed sequence to date. And a total non-sequitor now. They could have cut 100% of her screen time and we'd be no worse off for the plot development.

We already have the greatest fillibuster of all time in Essos.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Watching weekly is killing me. I watched all 3 seasons and the first two of this one in a few days. It was highly entertaining and seemed to flow good. But watching one eposide a week is really killing it for me because it just seems like nothing gets done. I should have waited for the series to end before I started.

 

[Thunderlips]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

But if Jamie is Tyrion's champion, all Tywin's family hopes suddenly ride on Jamie winning. A loss means all his male progeny are dead.

Good point.

 

[EYLive]

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

yeah they should omit all the great acting scenes

We could have saved ourselves a day of court and went straight to the trial by combat.

Just tell us who wins the throne and we can all save hours of watching this horrible show for the next couple years.

You missed my point. I'm talking about the farce of the trial, not the show.

 

[culdeus]

So are we talking previews in here or what? Because this combat is already way out in the open.

 

[Thunderlips]

I thought the whole rescuing Theon scene was very dumb. First they build it up with this great speech by his sister and youre getting all amped for the rescue and then all Ramsay does is unlock the gates with the dogs and they run away with their tails between their legs like little #####es? They had swords. Are dogs immune to getting stabbed? Also Ramsay is fighting with no armor and survives? Yet they kill all his armored guards? He must be the best fighter in Westeros.

Dogs ain't no joke, Bro. Especially when you're fighting a dog and a dude with a sword....and double especially when what you're fighting for is gone.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Jamie can't fight, tyrion will name bronn don't u think?

But if Jamie is Tyrion's champion, all Tywin's family hopes suddenly ride on Jamie winning. A loss means all his male progeny are dead.

Good point.

It forces Tywin to essentially ensure that Tyrion is found "not guilty." I don't know if there are ways Tywin can disallow the selection of Jamie as Tyrion's champion, but if not, it puts him in an untenable position. I assumed that's what Tyrion made the move he made - it's what I would have done if I were a disfigured dwarf being framed and railroaded for murder by my own family.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

So are we talking previews in here or what? Because this combat is already way out in the open.

No.

 

[Psychopav]

Watching weekly is killing me. I watched all 3 seasons and the first two of this one in a few days. It was highly entertaining and seemed to flow good. But watching one eposide a week is really killing it for me because it just seems like nothing gets done. I should have waited for the series to end before I started.

Heh. Try reading the b - o - o - k - s. Same experience except convert days to years.