General Sports Development Question (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

I was discussing with someone yesterday the evolution (?) of youth sports compared to "back in the day." I grew up in the late 70s and early 80s, and there were noticeable differences in how sports were handled then vs. now. For starters, where I lived, you couldn't even play an organized sport until you were 8 years old. On top of that, every sport was pretty much seasonal only. You played baseball for 3 months or basketball for 4 months and then moved to another sport when that sport season ended. I ended up playing on our town's first travel / tournament baseball team and our first club / travel soccer program, both of which met with more dirty looks than anything else because we were playing "out of season." Whatever sport you played, you practiced once or twice a week and had a game or two each week, but the schedule was not hectic from what I remember.

Flash forward until today. It seems like any competitive sport is now played 12 months out of the year. There is a soccer season in the fall AND spring, along with indoor soccer and futsal in the winter months. And there are a million and one organizations and teams. In our town, there are soccer programs for 3 year olds. Football wise, the kids start playing now at 5 years old.

Basketball has year round AAU, travel teams, camps, clinic, never ending skills and drills, etc. Our son played baseball and there were leagues, AAU, American Legion, etc. to the point where they played even if it was snowing. And a week after the season "ended" in winter, they were already starting indoor practices and wanted pitchers and catchers to report ASAP.

Don't even get me started with hockey, as my nephews played and would have to practice at 4 or 5 in the morning, ended up playing on inline teams because they could never get ice time to play or practice, and generally had a nightmare schedule.

The saddest part being that if you don't enroll your kids in a lot of this stuff, it gets held against them and they won't make the next level team or school team.

So my big question is, with kids starting younger and younger and playing the same sport almost 365 days a year (and by extension having parents shell out thousands of dollars), has the quality of play gone up any vs. generations past? I ask because I just don't see an improvement. In some instances, my eyes tell me the quality of coaching and play has usually gotten worse. Do others feel the same way, or am I in the minority?

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Specialization has gone up and overuse injuries have gone up - but quality of athlete has gone up as well just due to advances in training and technology. But I agree with your point that coaching has gone down. Back in the early 80s there were 3-4 travel baseball teams. The best of the best kids made those teams and everyone else played rec ball....and it was not a bad thing. Coaches were pretty decent in rec. Now, the number of "select" teams has increased exponentially and has gone from ability to play at a higher level to ability to pay at a higher level. Not saying there are not storng travel teams out there that are worth every penny, but anymore if your kid doesn't make a top team - you start up your own team to get junior exposure.

Funny thing is, everyone wants to have their kid specialize to make the next level.. Talk to the coaches at the next level - they want well rounded athletes. So there seems to be a disconnect between what coaches want and what parents of athletes think coaches want.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Quality of play in competitive youth soccer has gone way up since I was a kid. Not even close.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Two things drive the "all year" sports phenomena. First, like everything else, money. Second, everyone thinks their kid is the next Michael Jordan, Bryce Harper, etc.

The quality of play has gone up. For as much as we long for the days of when we were kids with pick up games and such, my high school son is a much better athlete than I was at his age...and I was pretty decent compared to the other kids. Hyper bowl of course and many things can play into this. I don't think the coaching quality has gone down at all. It is probably watered down with the 20 options kids have for a single sport, so your kid's coach might be a volunteer that is doing it because no one else would. The top coaches are still great and probably are more knowledgeable than 30 years ago.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Quality of play in competitive youth soccer has gone way up since I was a kid. Not even close.

I should add, though, that the quality of play in rec league soccer may very well have declined since I was a kid. When I played rec league, we had some decent players who probably would be doing travel teams now.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Two things drive the "all year" sports phenomena. First, like everything else, money. Second, everyone thinks their kid is the next Michael Jordan, Bryce Harper, etc.

The quality of play has gone up. For as much as we long for the days of when we were kids with pick up games and such, my high school son is a much better athlete than I was at his age...and I was pretty decent compared to the other kids. Hyper bowl of course and many things can play into this. I don't think the coaching quality has gone down at all. It is probably watered down with the 20 options kids have for a single sport, so your kid's coach might be a volunteer that is doing it because no one else would. The top coaches are still great and probably are more knowledgeable than 30 years ago.

This is the biggest factor to me. When I was a kid, if you tried out for traveling ball, if you weren't good enough, you got cut and went to play rec ball. Now, most sports seem to be willing to make as many teams as they can get kids and coaches for. It seems to me to be all about the money. These travel teams cost a lot of money. While the local programs and most likely non profit, people are making money off of this so it gets pushed.

Heck, I know a lot of kids that refuse to play rec ball if they don't make the travel team. That just doesn't make sense to me. You're not that good, go have fun playing non-super competitive ball with other kids who are there to enjoy the game.

 

[Mookie]

Level of play, coaching, cost, commitment has all dramatically increased, but I too long for the days when kids could go through seasons and not be pressured into specialization. Someone also made a great point about repetition injuries, which are becoming a huge problem. If I had to have kids again, I would also make sure they were born earlier in the calendar year so they would have an age advantage in their age group. Yup, it's getting that bad.

 

[belljr]

So far we are lucky. This is for softball

I was against travel but as others have mentioned our rec leagues talent has decreased because the talent left for travel

We jumped because I didn't want my kid to "fall behind" Also I noticed the coaching even in travel seems bad.

I won't pretend to be the greatest coach in the world but I know my #### and it amazes me how little other coaches don't know.

3 coaches had no idea about the ####### infield fly rule. I also had to breakup and arguemtn with coaches FROM THE OTHER team and an umpire because they didn't know what a fair ball was.

I also see umpiring not as good as it once was, which is surprising.

Anyway, that being said our travel coach has been great, i'm the assistant and he has a "in season" policy.

You play a fall sport - that is you #1 priority. Winter same thing.

Once March hits Softball.

I'm sure that may change when we hit the 14U level but who knows. The last 2 years have been positive. We are also not a "club" level team so it's not crazy money and parents.

I agree with what much that has been posted and think I can argue/support both sides now

 

[Anarchy99]

The other thing I may not have accounted for is that back in the day, the kids that played even rec sports were the ones that athletes and really wanted to play. Now it seems that for some sports there are 3 times as many kids playing. So in my day, the better kids or more athletic kids were the ones really committed to sports. Now there are so many groups, teams, and organizations that the competitive talent pool is spread pretty thin.

For example, our somewhat small to mid sized town (30,000 people) ended up having 2 or 3 travel basketball teams per grade because so many kids wanted to play on them. I promise you that there are not 30-40 kids PER GRADE that are anywhere near skilled enough to be playing travel basketball. Add in the multitude of options including AAU teams, school teams, church teams, etc. and a lot of kids end up getting mixed in with kids that probably shouldn't be where they are and you end up with a hodge podge of good kids, so so kids, and kids that really should find another sport.

But like others have said, most parents think their kid is the next Steph Curry (I was going to say Michael Jordan but that was so long ago) and what organization will turn down a hefty sized check and turn kids away?

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

So far we are lucky. This is for softball

I was against travel but as others have mentioned our rec leagues talent has decreased because the talent left for trouble.

We jumped because I didn't want my kid to "fall behind" Also I noticed the coaching even in travel seems bad.

I won't pretend to be the greatest coach in the world but I know my #### and it amazes me how little other coaches don't know.

3 coaches had no idea about the ####### infield fly rule. I also had to breakup and arguemtn with coaches FROM THE OTHER team and an umpire because they didn't know what a fair ball was.

I also see umpiring not as good as it once was, which is surprising.

Anyway, that being said our travel coach has been great, i'm the assistant and he has a "in season" policy.

You play a fall sport - that is you #1 priority. Winter same thing.

Once March hits Softball.

I'm sure that may change when we hit the 14U level but who knows. The last 2 years have been positive. We are also not a "club" level team so it's not crazy money and parents.

I agree with what much that has been posted and think I can argue/support both sides now

My now HS Sophomore was in an "in season" arrangement when he played travel baseball which was nice - and also nice is that at our HS that coach also encourages multi-sport athletes...but we are a mid-sized school. I hear at large schools the coaches are very much into specialization (at least in our area). My niece, who now plays collegiate basketball was a stud in Basketball, Volleyball and Softball - but as soon as she hit Sophomore year in HS, her volleyball coach told her she could not play basketball and softball. They wanted her to do club in summer, train year round and play HS volleyball in season. So, she quit volleyball - enjoyed her So-Sr years in basketball and softball and then was fortunate enough to get a bball scholarship. Let kids enjoy HS athletics, time is fleeting and they will never have that chance again. Screw the specialist coaches.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I know they exist, so maybe we have been lucky. We have yet to run into a coach or organization that thinks kids should play just one sport.

 

[Todem]

Travel Baseball is a big business down here in South Florida (hell the entire state). You have 70% of the teams that are simply just rec level players wearing fancy uniforms and hiring coaches who do this year round 7 days a week.

My son is turning 11 and on what is considered a "Majors" level team. And in that division his team is a .500-.600 team. We have won some decent tournaments (placed 7th out of 30th in the AAU Grand Nationals at Disney last summer) but for the most part all the parents on our team have a few key goals.

1) For our son's to develop and play the very best competition they can at their age level giving 100% effort all the time.

2) To develop into respectful young men who win and lose with class.

3) To travel out of the county lines and culminate the teams grand finale at The Cooperstown Field Of Dreams Tournament in Summer 2017.

After that this team will likely shut down. My son will be in middle school and we will see where he is at and if he wants to keep playing (I have a hunch he will as he loves the game). If so we will hopefully find a high level local travel team for him in the fall. And he can play on his middle school team in the spring.

It's not about win's and losses for our team. It's about the personal development of the boys. These are 11 year old kids. Half of them will not even be playing baseball by high school. It's a fact. I just want my son to love the game, have fun and keep growing. We are diligent in only pitching our boys 2 innings max or 40-50 total pitches. If a kid hits the 50 pitch count he will not pitch again for at least 6 days (the only exception is in a big tournament and he has at least 2 days to rest, that is the only exception but we rarely need them again as 9 kids do pitch). We insist at this age level every kid should be able to play 2 positions (INF and OF) with high competence and be able to come in for at least an inning and throw some strikes to help their team. So we will lose games because we truly believe in every kid's development on this team. We are not going to pitch a kid for 4-5 innings even if he is cruising. We have 12 boys. Some kids do sit more than one inning but they are very happy to be on the team and have top notch coaching. All the families are united. That is tough to have, but for long term success it is a must. Every parent signs the golden expectations document that we expect of them and their son before joining the team. If they can't abide by it for a season.....they need to find a new team. A few of the golden expectations are quite simple:

1) Absolutely no coaching from the stands

2) Never ever talk or be negative in the stands about any member of the team or any family member

3) 24 hour rule in talking with our head coach about only your son following a game. If you ever talk about another kid the discussion ends right there on the spot. But you must wait 24 hours before calling the coach to talk.

4) Absolutely no going over to your son in the dugout, talking to them, giving them water etc. They take their own bags in and out. And they should all have water in a cooler they bring with them.

5) In the stands we only cheer. We do not argue with umpires, get into any funny business with the opposing teams parents, nothing.

6) In the stands we don't even talk to our kids. No "bases loaded Johnny this is your time" We need a hit Johnny" none of that. Watch your kid, there is enough pressure they put on themselves and the coaches put on them that they don't need to hear Mommy and Daddy putting anymore on them. When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

It's amazing how relaxed our boys are when they play. But of course we always have one or two parents who eff up these rules set in place from time to time. But if it get's excessive you will blow it for your kid and have to explain to them why they have been released from the team. It took 2 seasons to get the "right kids and families" who "get it" on board with this team and vision.

My hope is my son keeps his passion and love for this amazing game and takes it as far as "he" wants to. We do play in the fall as well as spring but I make sure my son takes 7 weeks off in the fall (Late November thru the first two weeks of January) and then 8 weeks in the summer. Once we play our last summer tournament in June the only thing my kid does (and it is his choice) is go to the cages once a week to hit and if he wants I will take him out for ground balls and fly balls once a week. No pitching during his two breaks what so ever nor throwing. He plays tennis, pick up basketball, touch football and soccer in his off time.

However I know many parents who push their kids to the brink and then see numerous injuries and it is mind boggling. I never saw arm and legs injuries like I see today in youth sports.

When I was growing up playing ball (1978-1988) (I started playing baseball at age 5) I played January through June and there was no travel. The only travel was all-stars and select in the month of June. In high school I did play in the fall and spring but seasons were short. 3 months each. I had 6 months off from baseball.

The reason we play in the fall now is because we will fall far behind the other majors teams if we don't. Every team plays in the fall in our division. But in the fall we only play 12 games and one tournament a month (Sep-Nov) so about 24 games. We practice a lot more than play in the fall. In the spring we play 20 games and 5 tournaments so about 40 games. The great thing about the way we run our team is the pitching management. And with that comes the fact we will concede many games because we insist on all our boys (9 of the 12 pitch) to pitch, develop, and have fun. At the 9-14 age group I am a big believer that all kids should have the chance to pitch and experience that. It's fun being on the bump. And only a select few who continue on to high school and beyond will ever be real pitchers. So let them have fun while they are young and these games mean absolutely nothing.

There is a wonderful book written by Mike Matheny called The Matheny Manifesto. It is an awesome book on the problems with youth sports today and how he ran his 10-12U travel teams (before he became manager of the Cardinals). We pretty much follow his model. Oh I forgot to mention we also allow our catchers (we have 4 kids who rotate at catcher game to game) to call games now as well (11U). The boys are having so much fun with it and learning a ton.

There are great travel teams out there and I am a big believer in Travel baseball. But not every team is doing things right and many are doing it all wrong and for the wrong reasons.

Now I would have loved for my son to play rec/little league/pony like I did. But the big problem down here is every kid with good to great talent does not play rec. I was blown away. When my son hit 8 years old I thought he was going to kill some kids throwing them the ball. I had to get him out of rec so he could play with kids that could catch a baseball. Seriously....it was that bad. I went though two teams that were just all wrong for us as a family and my son as a player until we found the team we have been on since he turned 10 (I am the assistant/OF/1B Coach and team administrator). We have a hired paid professional coach now who used to run our practices. We hired him on to coach games and tournaments for us going forward. He is a former college pitcher and infielder as well. A tremendous coach, a real hard ### but in a very good way. All the kids respect him and he runs a very scripted tight practice. He is doing high level signals with them, and really focusing on important fundamentals, bunt coverage, proper hit and runs, run downs and pick off's, bunting, proper base running and stealing techniques etc. Great stuff.

So there is good going on in travel youth sports. But unfortunately it is saturated with a lot of mediocre and bad things going on. It has become not only a big business, but a twisted status symbol for parents. So freaking warped. My goodness.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I don't have an issue with not coaching from the stands, but this is just stupid:

When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

 

[belljr]

@Todem, that's why i switched. I thought my daughter was going to kill someone throwing to them.

 

[Todem]

I don't have an issue with not coaching from the stands, but this is just stupid:

When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

No it's not.

You don't need to get crazy at this age. They are not seasoned pitchers. There is a ton of pressure on them...more than enough noise coming from the opposing dugout, their own teammates are encouraging them enough/ the head coach throwing in some advice. They don't need to hear their parents from the stands before every pitch.

That is nonsense and not helping them. Trust me. The difference I saw in many kids developing as pitchers without that added parent noise factor is stark.

If that is your opinion so be it. If you don't believe 100% in the coaching and the expectations of the team it is not the right team for you and your son. Simple as that.

I am glad we allow our kids to pitch without parent noise before every pitch. Cheer all you want after the strike call. But while they are on the mound, focusing on the signs, managing base runners and zoning in....leave them the **ck alone.

When they hit 15-16....yeah whatever. They are young adults in the making and it is not nearly that big of a deal. But the maturity level and mental toughness of a 10/11 year old developing pitcher is vastly different then a teenage kid. And the amount of pressure at that age is even more intense as they want to please you so badly.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Well spoken, Todem. I wish all parents kept that attitude.

From a macro perspective, I have a huge problem with today's parenting generation not allowing kids "free time". We seem so intent on filling every minute or every day to ensure our kids "keep up" and are developing to the highest possible levels.

Whatevs.

Some of my fondest memories of childhood were the SLOW days. The times we hung around the house and wandered the neighborhood and played in the backyard.

Today's kids (not all, but a big percentage) are being given a soccer ball or a bat and mitt or a basketball and being told, "this is important. You need to focus on this."

Simple truth - less than 1% of all kids will grow up to be professional athletes. That means the other 99% - if they're interested in sports as children - should be playing to LEARN and HAVE FUN.

Is it possible to do those things while playing 365 days a year? Sure, but I see way too many miserable kids (and, ironically, miserable parents who insist on keeping on keeping on) who do it because they "have to".

Says who?

I wish things were like the old days (begin rant here) but now, good luck if you want your kid to play one sport per season and only commit a couple evenings per week to a sport. Those days are gone.

 

[Todem]

Well spoken, Todem. I wish all parents kept that attitude.

From a macro perspective, I have a huge problem with today's parenting generation not allowing kids "free time". We seem so intent on filling every minute or every day to ensure our kids "keep up" and are developing to the highest possible levels.

Whatevs.

Some of my fondest memories of childhood were the SLOW days. The times we hung around the house and wandered the neighborhood and played in the backyard.

Today's kids (not all, but a big percentage) are being given a soccer ball or a bat and mitt or a basketball and being told, "this is important. You need to focus on this."

Simple truth - less than 1% of all kids will grow up to be professional athletes. That means the other 99% - if they're interested in sports as children - should be playing to LEARN and HAVE FUN.

Is it possible to do those things while playing 365 days a year? Sure, but I see way too many miserable kids (and, ironically, miserable parents who insist on keeping on keeping on) who do it because they "have to".

Says who?

I wish things were like the old days (begin rant here) but now, good luck if you want your kid to play one sport per season and only commit a couple evenings per week to a sport. Those days are gone.

Yeah. I hear you.

My kid goes over his buddies house everyday after school for 45 minutes to let off steam and play football, basketball, ping pong...whatever the flavor of the day is.

 

[belljr]

Todem - no idea he put out a book

I remember reading the manifesto way back

 

[Bull Dozier]

Specialization is a horrible trend. Every word I've heard from college coaches is they want to recruit well rounded atheletes, they don't want kids that have specialized for three plus years.

I know of two kids my daughters age (now a college freshman) that specialized and it worked against them. One was a basketball, football and baseball player. He thought his best chances were at a baseball scholarship, so he dropped the other two and worked at baseball for a couple of years. Never got a sniff at anything, so he wised up and played basketball against his senior year. Went to college and played nothing because he was burnt out on the process, but realized he missed the locker room so he walked on to a D-III baseball team.

The other thought basketball was his ticket, so he stopped playing baseball in high school. Wound up with only D-III interst in basketball so he went ahead and got back into baseball as a senior. Had such a good season, he got an offer from a D-II school.

You just never know how things are going to turn out, and most kids don't know really what their passions are going to be when they are 14 years old.

 

[Todem]

Specialization is a horrible trend. Every word I've heard from college coaches is they want to recruit well rounded atheletes, they don't want kids that have specialized for three plus years.

I know of two kids my daughters age (now a college freshman) that specialized and it worked against them. One was a basketball, football and baseball player. He thought his best chances were at a baseball scholarship, so he dropped the other two and worked at baseball for a couple of years. Never got a sniff at anything, so he wised up and played basketball against his senior year. Went to college and played nothing because he was burnt out on the process, but realized he missed the locker room so he walked on to a D-III baseball team.

The other thought basketball was his ticket, so he stopped playing baseball in high school. Wound up with only D-III interst in basketball so he went ahead and got back into baseball as a senior. Had such a good season, he got an offer from a D-II school.

You just never know how things are going to turn out, and most kids don't know really what their passions are going to be when they are 14 years old.

Bingo.

If my kid is done at 14...then he is done. My hope is he plays sports period throughout his life. But right now his passion is baseball. And I don't over kill him. He loves to play, practice etc. It's up to him to take it as far as he wants. If he tells me he just does not want to play anymore....well then that's that. By the end of his 8 week break he is chomping at the bit to play. I know other kids though that simply don't stop. Those are the ones likely to quit by 14.

 

[BobbyLayne]

My boss has 3 boys (10th grade, 8th and 1st.) The oldest two are on lax travel teams but not really elite. My boss captained a D1 program back in the 80s and as a coach he's tapped into the whole east coast lax network. I feel bad for the oldest boy - he likes (does not love) lacrosse, and feels like he's a failure because he hasn't excelled. Most elite sophomores have a scholarship waiting for them next year. So the kid took up fencing, and he's dominating at the h.s. level. There's another fencer at his school who spends every day getting one on one training from a former Olympian. That kid doesn't even go to his high school matches, but showed up out of the blue for the big conference tournament. He smoked everyone, didn't give up a single point, left before the meet was over and forgot to pick up his first place medal.

My kid wants to be in Curling club next year when he goes off to college. I'm kind of glad he never got caught up in competitive team sports (I played baseball & football.) He played tennis for awhile but he just isn't mentally built that way, and I never pushed him.

 

[Sabertooth]

My kids quit sports early. I thank my lucky stars for this.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I don't have an issue with not coaching from the stands, but this is just stupid:

When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

No it's not. You don't need to get crazy at this age. They are not seasoned pitchers. There is a ton of pressure on them...more than enough noise coming from the opposing dugout, their own teammates are encouraging them enough/ the head coach throwing in some advice. They don't need to hear their parents from the stands before every pitch.

That is nonsense and not helping them. Trust me. The difference I saw in many kids developing as pitchers without that added parent noise factor is stark.

If that is your opinion so be it. If you don't believe 100% in the coaching and the expectations of the team it is not the right team for you and your son. Simple as that.

I am glad we allow our kids to pitch without parent noise before every pitch. Cheer all you want after the strike call. But while they are on the mound, focusing on the signs, managing base runners and zoning in....leave them the **ck alone.

When they hit 15-16....yeah whatever. They are young adults in the making and it is not nearly that big of a deal. But the maturity level and mental toughness of a 10/11 year old developing pitcher is vastly different then a teenage kid. And the amount of pressure at that age is even more intense as they want to please you so badly.

So now cheering for your child is "getting crazy"? I'd love to see someone tell a parent that they aren't following the "gold standard" because they encouraged their child while they were on the mound.

 

[Todem]

I don't have an issue with not coaching from the stands, but this is just stupid:

When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

No it's not. You don't need to get crazy at this age. They are not seasoned pitchers. There is a ton of pressure on them...more than enough noise coming from the opposing dugout, their own teammates are encouraging them enough/ the head coach throwing in some advice. They don't need to hear their parents from the stands before every pitch.

That is nonsense and not helping them. Trust me. The difference I saw in many kids developing as pitchers without that added parent noise factor is stark.

If that is your opinion so be it. If you don't believe 100% in the coaching and the expectations of the team it is not the right team for you and your son. Simple as that.

I am glad we allow our kids to pitch without parent noise before every pitch. Cheer all you want after the strike call. But while they are on the mound, focusing on the signs, managing base runners and zoning in....leave them the **ck alone.

When they hit 15-16....yeah whatever. They are young adults in the making and it is not nearly that big of a deal. But the maturity level and mental toughness of a 10/11 year old developing pitcher is vastly different then a teenage kid. And the amount of pressure at that age is even more intense as they want to please you so badly.

So now cheering for your child is "getting crazy"? I'd love to see someone tell a parent that they aren't following the "gold standard" because they encouraged their child while they were on the mound.

You simply don't get it "what I am talking about"

I am talking about saying things like this before your kid pitches

"We need a strike here Johnny come on!!!"

"You gotta throw strikes here Johnny baseball loaded, no walks kid!!"

"Johnny bear down...win the battle, we need this"

"Play at home Johnny, if he hits it back to you Johnny"

'Watch the bunt Johnny! Know where your going with the ball"

This is not cheering or encouragement, this is coaching from the stands. You may think this is encouragement but that is putting immense added pressure to your kid.

He knows his job. He knows the situation. He does not need to hear the voice of his parents who he wants to please most saying these things. He already has the pressure of his teammates, coaches and the opposing dugout.

There is only one voice on our field, it is our head coach and our players who talk to each other. No parents voicing their advice or so called encouragement. These are 10,11 year old boys.

After the pitch he throws a strike, ball is hit and caught, whatever.....cheer loudly, clap make some noise. No worries.

Get what I am talking about now?

 

[Sabertooth]

Don't tell me how to parent my kid.

 

[Rogi]

I was at my 8 year old's basketball practice and another parent and I were talking about how every kid on the team can dribble between their legs. When I was that age it was rare to see kids do that.

I noticed with my daughter's volleyball that the kids that do year round volleyball clubs have a huge advantage. Sports just aren't as seasonal as they use to be.

I just encourage my kids to try various sports. Besides the health benefits I really believe kids can learn a lot of life skills through sports: teamwork, work ethic, winning, losing, etc. Not to mention seeing coaches that play favorites with some players...no different than some bosses picking their favorites at work not based on skill.

 

[Todem]

Don't tell me how to parent my kid.

Then dont play on our team. Just keep helicoptering your kid.You are fortunate your kids quit sports. You sound like a nightmare already.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I don't have an issue with not coaching from the stands, but this is just stupid:

When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

No it's not. You don't need to get crazy at this age. They are not seasoned pitchers. There is a ton of pressure on them...more than enough noise coming from the opposing dugout, their own teammates are encouraging them enough/ the head coach throwing in some advice. They don't need to hear their parents from the stands before every pitch.

That is nonsense and not helping them. Trust me. The difference I saw in many kids developing as pitchers without that added parent noise factor is stark.

If that is your opinion so be it. If you don't believe 100% in the coaching and the expectations of the team it is not the right team for you and your son. Simple as that.

I am glad we allow our kids to pitch without parent noise before every pitch. Cheer all you want after the strike call. But while they are on the mound, focusing on the signs, managing base runners and zoning in....leave them the **ck alone.

When they hit 15-16....yeah whatever. They are young adults in the making and it is not nearly that big of a deal. But the maturity level and mental toughness of a 10/11 year old developing pitcher is vastly different then a teenage kid. And the amount of pressure at that age is even more intense as they want to please you so badly.

So now cheering for your child is "getting crazy"? I'd love to see someone tell a parent that they aren't following the "gold standard" because they encouraged their child while they were on the mound.

You simply don't get it "what I am talking about"

I am talking about saying things like this before your kid pitches

"We need a strike here Johnny come on!!!"

"You gotta throw strikes here Johnny baseball loaded, no walks kid!!"

"Johnny bear down...win the battle, we need this"

"Play at home Johnny, if he hits it back to you Johnny"

'Watch the bunt Johnny! Know where your going with the ball"

This is not cheering or encouragement, this is coaching from the stands. You may think this is encouragement but that is putting immense added pressure to your kid.

He knows his job. He knows the situation. He does not need to hear the voice of his parents who he wants to please most saying these things. He already has the pressure of his teammates, coaches and the opposing dugout.

There is only one voice on our field, it is our head coach and our players who talk to each other. No parents voicing their advice or so called encouragement. These are 10,11 year old boys.

After the pitch he throws a strike, ball is hit and caught, whatever.....cheer loudly, clap make some noise. No worries.

Get what I am talking about now?

That's fine if you want to paint it as me not understanding. I was using the same words you did. You said "But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball."

"advice" and "encouragement" are two completely different and unrelated things.

 

[belljr]

There is thought that at a young age.

Even Yelling "You CAN do this" puts added pressure on the player. Even though you are trying to be positive it can still be counter productive.

 

[Todem]

I don't have an issue with not coaching from the stands, but this is just stupid:

When your kid is on the mound. Silence. You can cheer and clap when they throw strikes, get kids out...etc. But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball. Your just adding pressure. DO NOT COACH FROM THE STANDS.

No it's not. You don't need to get crazy at this age. They are not seasoned pitchers. There is a ton of pressure on them...more than enough noise coming from the opposing dugout, their own teammates are encouraging them enough/ the head coach throwing in some advice. They don't need to hear their parents from the stands before every pitch.

That is nonsense and not helping them. Trust me. The difference I saw in many kids developing as pitchers without that added parent noise factor is stark.

If that is your opinion so be it. If you don't believe 100% in the coaching and the expectations of the team it is not the right team for you and your son. Simple as that.

I am glad we allow our kids to pitch without parent noise before every pitch. Cheer all you want after the strike call. But while they are on the mound, focusing on the signs, managing base runners and zoning in....leave them the **ck alone.

When they hit 15-16....yeah whatever. They are young adults in the making and it is not nearly that big of a deal. But the maturity level and mental toughness of a 10/11 year old developing pitcher is vastly different then a teenage kid. And the amount of pressure at that age is even more intense as they want to please you so badly.

So now cheering for your child is "getting crazy"? I'd love to see someone tell a parent that they aren't following the "gold standard" because they encouraged their child while they were on the mound.

You simply don't get it "what I am talking about"

I am talking about saying things like this before your kid pitches

"We need a strike here Johnny come on!!!"

"You gotta throw strikes here Johnny baseball loaded, no walks kid!!"

"Johnny bear down...win the battle, we need this"

"Play at home Johnny, if he hits it back to you Johnny"

'Watch the bunt Johnny! Know where your going with the ball"

This is not cheering or encouragement, this is coaching from the stands. You may think this is encouragement but that is putting immense added pressure to your kid.

He knows his job. He knows the situation. He does not need to hear the voice of his parents who he wants to please most saying these things. He already has the pressure of his teammates, coaches and the opposing dugout.

There is only one voice on our field, it is our head coach and our players who talk to each other. No parents voicing their advice or so called encouragement. These are 10,11 year old boys.

After the pitch he throws a strike, ball is hit and caught, whatever.....cheer loudly, clap make some noise. No worries.

Get what I am talking about now?

That's fine if you want to paint it as me not understanding. I was using the same words you did. You said "But don't coach or talk to them or even encourage them while they are playing ball."

"advice" and "encouragement" are two completely different and unrelated things.

What happens is this. You have parents who think encouragement like "come on Johnny you can do this"! Is helping them. Actually it's not. Because if they strike out or fail they feel awful that they let "you" down. It really puts that much more pressure on them.

We want our boys to relax, have a clear head and focus and deal with the pressures on the field while they develop. Again we are talking about young kids in a huge transition stage.

I am not trying to be argumentative.

And I will tell you. When we held tryouts we handed every parent the "Golden Expectations" manifesto. We said read it carefully and if you have any questions please ask. If you don't agree with anything on there.....this is not the team for your son and your family.

It's not like any of what we expect is a surprise. Our parents sign this along with their son before they are offered a spot on the team. We had several parents leave the tryout before even letting their kid on the field. We were happy about that.

It's not for everyone. And it's not supposed to be for everyone. This is a Majors level travel team with clear goals, a clear vision and clear expectation of how we want our parents and players to conduct themselves.

You would be amazed at the compliments we get after almost every game from umpires and opposing parents of how well conducted our team is on and off the field and how pleasant our parents are during the game. We get numerous requests for tryouts all throughout the season. The reputation of our team is very good in the league we play in. One of the best in fact.

Sometimes parents slip....we get it. Heck I can slip every now and then. It's natural. But the obsessive and constant is not tolerated. It just does not work on our club.

Again......it's not for everyone. But it definitely weeds out what we don't want. And being on some awful travel teams in the past and seeing plenty as well (not skill wise I am talking insane parents and coaches) I learned what I want for my young son and how I hope he can develop and learn and mature into a young man. I was very forth coming with the Matheny Manifesto on this team when we joined it and that is why I was made an assistant coach and team admin. It's working for us. The boys are all very happy, playing hard and playing relaxed. It get's heated on the field, but not because parents are out of hand. It's the competition, and coaching that is intense. And they are eating it up and getting better and better.

. If that is not good for you no problem. This is not the right place for your family. It's OK. It's not for everyone. When we installed this "Golden Expectation" Document we lost 2 kids (families) right off the bat. And they were excellent ball players. But the parents did not agree with it. They liked to coach from the stands and were constantly giving so called encouragement. We want our parents to be their "Silent Source Of Encouragement" Read the book and you will understand that definition.

2 seasons later they begged to come back. But their spots were already filled. And the players (families) that took their spots were probably a little less skilled, but they bought in from the get go and have been awesome.

Anyway I will post how that document reads tonight so you can all see what every parent and player signs before they are offered a spot on the club. That will help clear up any vagueness.

 

[Chadstroma]

I had a conversation with the AD of our kids school (K-8 Catholic school) this weekend and we talked in length about this subject.

It started from talking about how busy I was with sports over the weekend. We were chatting as my daughter was playing volleyball for her school. There was another game later in the day and then she would head to her club volleyball for a few more games. After her second game, I had to come back to the school to coach my sons basketball team and that wasn't that packed off a weekend day for sports either. Both of my boys are in club swim and then as mentioned, this season my daughter plays school and club volleyball and my older son plays basketball. Next year, it will be even busier as my youngest son will start the three major school sports (Football/fall, Basketball/winter and Soccer/spring). With my daughter playing both club and school volleyball, the winter season is the craziest for us.

This thread started well before COVID. My older kids had a lot of those 'early starting' years taken from them because of the COVID years as opposed to my youngest who has been involved more, earlier in sport. Between him and his brother, I can see a lot more skill development difference. My older son is very athletic and excels at most sports and is usually one of the better kids on the field, court, pool, etc. My younger son shows athleticism as well but because he has had much more exposure to sports at a younger age than his brother, i can see a skillset level difference between the two that is very striking. Now, some of that also could be that younger brothers tend to be more advances in skills as they play against their older brother etc. But there is no question to me that the various camps/clinics over the last couple of years have really helped his development. His only experience in a 'league' is playing a developmental basketball league last fall and playing flag football at school (the first year they did it for 1st and 2nd graders). The majority of his experience prior to that was various 'introductory' type camps with mostly the local rec.

As for whether there is a difference in skill level. I will say that I played club basketball growing up. I now coach basketball for my boys (I am barred from coaching my daughter by my daughter and wife because I guess I am "too much"). I will say that the skillset that I see in basketball players at the these elementary school age levels is mostly much better than it was while I was growing up (except for the ability to play with your back to the basket which is a lost art now).

The conversation with the AD centered around specialization in sport at these ages. He did his Masters thesis on overuse injury. I believe strongly that elementary school aged kids should be exposed to as many different sports as possible and then play several sports. Specialization should not be considered until essentially high school. Now, at the same time, I have heard push back of "my son only wants to play XYZ sport". That is fair and after they are exposed to other sports, I don't think you should force kids to play sports they are not interested in or want to. But in these cases, as the parent, it is then your responsibility to make sure that they have sufficient down time away from the sport. This is both to rest their bodies but as well as their mind and hearts on the sport. How many kids did you know who were super focused on a sport and then usually around High School, totally burn out on it and want nothing to do with it? I remember a lot of them. Specially with baseball.

In my view, you either need to shut the kid down for some time.... or let them go from sport to sport. The multi sport athlete is still developing in another sport while working in a different sport. For my son, I can see development benefits that go from one sport to the other whether football, basketball, soccer or swim. He gets a break from each sport but is also still developing as an athlete and gaining transferable skills. It is a big reason why I am a proponent of multi-sport athletes. That being said, my sons skillset, in basketball, is lower than that of the kids that spend more time in the sport. For example, on our current team, I would say that my son is the 4th best player. He is a very good defender and rebounder but offensive skills are not quite on the same level as the top three players on the team, who play club basketball as well. My son would likely make the club team but with club swim as well, it would just be too much. But overall, I am very happy with his development in sports in general.

 

[belljr]

I believe you can start "specializing" age14/15 - freshman year. Not saying you have too but that is about where I personally think its ok to shut down others sports.....

You can't sell me on any time before 9th grade.

 

[Anarchy99]

Funny how time flies. I don't even remember starting this thread almost 8 years ago. My kids are all older and phased out of sports. My 3 boys all played multiple sports throughout the year. The oldest played baseball, soccer, basketball, and golf. He ended focusing on golf in high school. He ended up getting his PGA card, is a territory sales manager for a golf equipment company, and also gives golf lessons (and sporadically plays in regional tournaments).

The middle son played just about everything (football, baseball, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, golf, wrestling). IIRC, he lettered in 5 or 6 sports in high school. He ended up concentrating on wrestling and was one of the top ranked wrestlers in a multi-state region. The other sports he did for fun.

The youngest one played football, baseball, basketball, and track. Once he hit middle school, he concentrated on basketball. He likely played 100 games a year on various teams. He was the cash drain of the group, as he played AAU all the time for a pretty penny. That made him a much better player, but he played on teams with kids that weren't as polished and didn't know the game as well. That made it tough when most of the kids on his team were less aware and less developed. It was frustrating. He either played on teams where he was leaps and bounds the best player . . . or he played on teams with kids that ended up getting scholarships and he had to fight to get minutes. No in between.

I still can't conclude that the level of play for kids specializing in any particular sport is that much better than when I used to play back in the stone age. The really good kids are still really good, and the rest of the masses are still the rest of the masses. I didn't really see teams with a full roster of kids that were really talented and knew how to play the game the way it was meant to be played. But maybe that's just my perspective and I am missing a lot.

 

[Todem]

Wow talk about a time warp.....I remember this thread.

So much has happened since then with our son’s baseball journey. Most of you know he made it to high school...won three state/national titles and is now heading into his Freshman year playing college baseball.

Crazy journey.......but this foundation I talked about in this very thread paved the way for his development. I went on to become a head coach after his “Cooperstown” team broke up (as expected) for his 13/14/15/16U travel teams and also became the head coach of his Middle School team back in 2017. I ran the same exact program for his middle school team (and all his travel teams) and really honed in on the mental part of the game and also really coaching all the parents on the do’s and dont’s of youth baseball and getting their boys to the next level.

I was asked to coach again last summer and declined.....and am being asked yet again to return to the diamond in the summer of 2024 and also be a college recruiter advisor by my sons former High School Showcase organization. I don’t know......maybe. LOL.

But.......one thing is for certain the travel scene has gotten even nuttier since this thread back in 2016. And it is a pure puppy mill money machine. I could write a novel on the do’s and don’t of youth/travel/high school and college recruitment for baseball.

mmmmmm maybe that is what I should do next LOL.

 

[Todem]

I believe you can start "specializing" age14/15 - freshman year. Not saying you have too but that is about where I personally think its ok to shut down others sports.....

You can't sell me on any time before 9th grade.

100% agree. Prior to high school kids should be playing multiple sports. Period.

 

[Anarchy99]

But.......one thing is for certain the travel scene has gotten even nuttier since this thread back in 2016. And it is a pure puppy mill money machine. I could write a novel on the do’s and don’t of youth/travel/high school and college recruitment for baseball.

I think this hits on what I was trying to say but better. Back when I was young (when they wrote on papyrus), travel teams were few and far between. In our neck of the woods, I played on the initial area travel baseball, soccer, and basketball teams. They took the best kids across multiple towns and threw them on a team. Everyone was really good, and everyone played (like it was an all-star game). Nowadays, there are 1,001 AAU teams, club teams, travel teams, tournament teams, etc. It's like smooth talking coaches can make bank by telling Little Billy's parents that a $10K investment in a program will make Billy a D-I athlete and could save the parents $350K in tuition and housing costs down the road. When in reality it's a $10K donation to the coach's retirement fund.

I wish they went back to the strategy of having one exceptional team comprised of the best kids from a 100-mile radius as opposed to any kid that lives in a 2-mile radius that comes with a checkbook in hand. It dilutes the talent pool for a region that has no business fielding 25 teams at the same level.

 

[Chadstroma]

Wow talk about a time warp.....I remember this thread.

So much has happened since then with our son’s baseball journey. Most of you know he made it to high school...won three state/national titles and is now heading into his Freshman year playing college baseball.

Crazy journey.......but this foundation I talked about in this very thread paved the way for his development. I went on to become a head coach after his “Cooperstown” team broke up (as expected) for his 13/14/15/16U travel teams and also became the head coach of his Middle School team back in 2017. I ran the same exact program for his middle school team and really honed in on the mental part of the game and also really coaching all the parents on the do’s and font’s of youth baseball and getting their boys to the next level.

I was asked to coach again last summer and declined.....and am being asked yet again to return to the diamond in the summer of 2024 and also be a college recruiter advisor by my sons former High School Showcase organization. I don’t know......maybe. LOL.

But.......one thing is for certain the travel scene has gotten even nuttier since this thread back in 2016. And it is a pure puppy mill money machine. I could write a novel on the do’s and don’t of youth/travel/high school and college recruitment for baseball.

mmmmmm maybe that is what I should do next LOL.

Yea, from the outside looking in with baseball.... I got to say that I am happy we didn't do baseball. Not that it was a specific decision but he missed out on the tball years with COVID and then after COVID started up with school sports and club swim not long after (We did swim as once he got near the end of the full program said he wanted to race people). There was not really time for baseball. He actually told me at the start of this last summer that he wanted to play baseball and I had to tell him that there just wasn't time. Plus, his skill level would be so far below that I don't know how much playing time he would get even though he is very athletic. He doesn't like swim meets because of all the waiting that is involved.... dude, you would hate baseball my friend.

But what I have seen and heard from other parents about baseball.... the toxic environment is out of control. My guess is that it isn't just a local thing either.

By comparison, being in Catholic school leagues for most sports and then club swim (which may be one of the most positive sports environments I have ever been associated or witnessed)- I am happy for those experiences and missing out on all the crap I have heard about baseball.

 

[Anarchy99]

Sigh. This thread is making me sad. I know there's the other kids' sports thread that I started that got a lot more traction than this one. I sure wish my youngest got to finish his state D-I basketball tournament (thanks, COVID!). His HS had only lost one game his senior year with him in the lineup and they were making a run. I will always remember what turned out to be his last game, the team down by a point with a few seconds to go. The coach called timeout and set up a play to get my son got the ball on the inbounds. That was it. That was the play. Plan B for everyone else was if they couldn't get him the ball from out of bounds, whoever got the ball was to get him the ball immediately. The four other kids understand what to do, and the coach screamed at them, "What don't you get? Get him the effing ball and get the eff out of the way!" They got him the ball, he went 1 on 5 to the rim and came away with 2 points, and that was that. Win and advance. But then we went home and found out that Tom Hanks had COVID, Rudy Gobert tested positive and they were going to shut down the NBA, Trump announced that international flights were going to stop, my son never had another class in his high school again, and the tournament never got completed. Somehow, I had managed to block all that out. Did all that really happen?

 

[The Z Machine]

In some instances, my eyes tell me the quality of coaching and play has usually gotten worse.

I think soccer coaching has increased tremendously since the 80s when I played. Exposure to the world's game has changed things a lot.

You're right thought that it's sooooo different than it was back in the day.

 

[Gally]

I wish they went back to the strategy of having one exceptional team comprised of the best kids from a 100-mile radius as opposed to any kid that lives in a 2-mile radius that comes with a checkbook in hand. It dilutes the talent pool for a region that has no business fielding 25 teams at the same level.

The travel team concept has diluted the rec leagues so badly that there really isn't a rec league anymore in many places. It is really sad. It has become somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. Rather than having the best of the best go someplace to improve their abilities and then the rest still get improvement because the competition was still good engough to improve your skills, it is now so diluted that it is a waste of time for any type of development. It's sad.

 

[acarey50]

I wish they went back to the strategy of having one exceptional team comprised of the best kids from a 100-mile radius as opposed to any kid that lives in a 2-mile radius that comes with a checkbook in hand. It dilutes the talent pool for a region that has no business fielding 25 teams at the same level.

The travel team concept has diluted the rec leagues so badly that there really isn't a rec league anymore in many places. It is really sad. It has become somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. Rather than having the best of the best go someplace to improve their abilities and then the rest still get improvement because the competition was still good engough to improve your skills, it is now so diluted that it is a waste of time for any type of development. It's sad.

Parents and kids having major FOMO, and leeches... err, I mean coaches willing to capitalize on that has certainly changed the dynamic. Now if you have a check that will clear, there is a club team for you.

And these coaches will tell kids and parent anything they want to hear just to get them coming back. I've had coaches telling these kids they are varsity level players for basketball as freshman when they are only 5'4", not very fast and don't have a left hand. And the parents get pissed at the high school coaches when their kid is barely making it off the bench for the freshman team.

 

[Chadstroma]

I wish they went back to the strategy of having one exceptional team comprised of the best kids from a 100-mile radius as opposed to any kid that lives in a 2-mile radius that comes with a checkbook in hand. It dilutes the talent pool for a region that has no business fielding 25 teams at the same level.

The travel team concept has diluted the rec leagues so badly that there really isn't a rec league anymore in many places. It is really sad. It has become somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. Rather than having the best of the best go someplace to improve their abilities and then the rest still get improvement because the competition was still good engough to improve your skills, it is now so diluted that it is a waste of time for any type of development. It's sad.

Our recreation department seems to have approached it right I think. They basically have teamed up with some clubs in the area. One club has a rec league ran for boys/girls basketball and volleyball, softball and a baseball fall league. Then they have their travel teams for baseball and basketball.

There are clubs for soccer and stuff too and they seem to all have close associations with the recreation department in using the facilities etc. The cost is even tiered for resident vs non-resident like all the other rec stuff is.

If I was running a recreation department, I think this makes the most sense to approach it this way.

 

[Judge Smails]

I believe most kids would greatly benefit from cross training by playing multiple sports, just like we did when we were kids. Not just physically, but mentally too. Kids need a break. The best players I coached in baseball also played basketball, soccer etc. One kid went on to become the #1 pick in MLS. Another was the #19 pick in the MLB draft. Travel ball is important to play against better competition. The talent drop off with many rec leagues from travel ball is huge. But I would avoid playing year round in any sport if you can help it.

As for the coaching from the stands perspective, it is probably one of my bigger regrets. I was always encouraging if I chirped anything "way to battle, kid". That's OK when I'm coaching from the 3rd base box. But not in the stands. It's so hard to stay quiet but it's best for all. My biggest regret was replaying the game on the way home. Great job backing up the play at 3rd - way to be alert. But then I'd say, "the 2nd time you were up with that 2-0 count, were you sitting on a fastball in a certain spot?". Kids hate reliving games like that and they dread the conversation. Wish I would have picked up on that earlier. If you have kids playing take it from me - don't say a thing after a game. If you want to teach/correct wait until the next practice.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So my big question is, with kids starting younger and younger and playing the same sport almost 365 days a year (and by extension having parents shell out thousands of dollars), has the quality of play gone up any vs. generations past? I ask because I just don't see an improvement. In some instances, my eyes tell me the quality of coaching and play has usually gotten worse. Do others feel the same way, or am I in the minority?

It's purely anecdotal, but I feel like my son's 9 year old baseball team would wipe the floor with my 12 year old team from back in the day that played in the league championship. Some of these kids today are RIDICULOUSLY good for their age.

 

[Gally]

So my big question is, with kids starting younger and younger and playing the same sport almost 365 days a year (and by extension having parents shell out thousands of dollars), has the quality of play gone up any vs. generations past? I ask because I just don't see an improvement. In some instances, my eyes tell me the quality of coaching and play has usually gotten worse. Do others feel the same way, or am I in the minority?

It's purely anecdotal, but I feel like my son's 9 year old baseball team would wipe the floor with my 12 year old team from back in the day that played in the league championship. Some of these kids today are RIDICULOUSLY good for their age.

I think certain aspects are better today of game play and others are much, much worse. For example, the technique for a swing or fielding a ground ball is better today. Everyone has the information and can start proper form much earlier so that part is better now than in the past. However, have kids today go have a pickup game with no coaches around telling them when to run or where to throw or ??????? and many have no instincts for the game because they aren't allowed to develop them. Kids now don't know how to run the bases on their own, they don't know how to improvise a play in the field with a pump fake or a back pick. Pitchers/catchers don't know how to set up a batter because coaches call every pitch. These things are not learned anymore and it is a big problem when kids get to higher levels.

 

[fantasy stud]

Kids are obviously better at young ages because of all the time and effort. However, how much burn out happens by the time they get to high school? I'm a middle school teacher/coach and the majority of these kids who devote their time to a single sport year round aren't playing big time college or professional. Most are fizzling in high school or attending a small school where they might play for a year or two max.

 

[Gally]

As for the coaching from the stands perspective, it is probably one of my bigger regrets. I was always encouraging if I chirped anything "way to battle, kid". That's OK when I'm coaching from the 3rd base box. But not in the stands. It's so hard to stay quiet but it's best for all. My biggest regret was replaying the game on the way home. Great job backing up the play at 3rd - way to be alert. But then I'd say, "the 2nd time you were up with that 2-0 count, were you sitting on a fastball in a certain spot?". Kids hate reliving games like that and they dread the conversation. Wish I would have picked up on that earlier. If you have kids playing take it from me - don't say a thing after a game. If you want to teach/correct wait until the next practice.

I think there is a happy medium and it is very kid dependent. Really the best time to go over situations/errors/proper plays/etc is right when they happen. It's freshest in the mind and can be the best time to get it to "stick". However, many kids will tune out as you are stating so it ends up being counterproductive. Waiting too long and the kids forget the situation and it doesn't have the same staying power. It is a fine line and one where you have to take queues and approach it accordingly.

After a big win when there was a lot of good, my son would engage about the few things he could have done better and received the "good jobs" as well. The 2-0 swing at an off speed pitch. The forgetting to back up third on a base hit to right kind of stuff. After a good game he was all about trying to get better and go over those things. After a tough loss, don't even talk about the good things. Don't try to point out the positives. Just let him be and when he was ready to talk about it then we did (it took me a long time to figure this one out though as you want to console/help/etc).

Every kid is different and it's tough to not just do what you want to do because you want to help. I still don't agree with the stands encouragement during the game stuff. Direct coaching or having your kid look at you for instruction every pitch or play is terrible. Cheering, encouragement, positives are all fine. It's a game afterall. I will say as my kid has gotten older and has developed the ability to correct things etc when they are noticed I have yelled out key words that will help him get on track if he has lost mechanics etc. It's very few and far between and is only done if he is repeatedly missing his mechanics. It might be something like "front arm" or "stay back" and that's it. They are queues that mean something to him for a specific deficiency. it's not constant and I can understand how this is frowned upon and try and refrain as much as possible but as someone that has coached him on the field for 12 years it's hard to refrain sometimes.

 

[belljr]

So my big question is, with kids starting younger and younger and playing the same sport almost 365 days a year (and by extension having parents shell out thousands of dollars), has the quality of play gone up any vs. generations past? I ask because I just don't see an improvement. In some instances, my eyes tell me the quality of coaching and play has usually gotten worse. Do others feel the same way, or am I in the minority?

It's purely anecdotal, but I feel like my son's 9 year old baseball team would wipe the floor with my 12 year old team from back in the day that played in the league championship. Some of these kids today are RIDICULOUSLY good for their age.

I think certain aspects are better today of game play and others are much, much worse. For example, the technique for a swing or fielding a ground ball is better today. Everyone has the information and can start proper form much earlier so that part is better now than in the past. However, have kids today go have a pickup game with no coaches around telling them when to run or where to throw or ??????? and many have no instincts for the game because they aren't allowed to develop them. Kids now don't know how to run the bases on their own, they don't know how to improvise a play in the field with a pump fake or a back pick. Pitchers/catchers don't know how to set up a batter because coaches call every pitch. These things are not learned anymore and it is a big problem when kids get to higher levels.

This is exactly what my scout buddy has stated. Todays kids can all hit, throw, field but they don't know how to play the game....... And many professional teams "don't care" because "that's the easiest thing to teach"......

 

[Gally]

And many professional teams "don't care" because "that's the easiest thing to teach"......

I would find that hard to believe (that they don't care). As a coach that was the thing that drove me nuts more than anything else. There is so much loss due to lack of instincts for the game that players with lesser talent are better in games because they know what to do on their own. Too many runners getting thrown out even when they are the fastest kids because they have no concept of the game. Too many missed out opportunities because players never look for the next out. Sure it can be taught to some degree but the instincts to just know when/what/where to go/do is very costly. That takes hundreds or thousands of innings in game situations to develop.

 

[belljr]

And many professional teams "don't care" because "that's the easiest thing to teach"......

I would find that hard to believe (that they don't care). As a coach that was the thing that drove me nuts more than anything else. There is so much loss due to lack of instincts for the game that players with lesser talent are better in games because they know what to do on their own. Too many runners getting thrown out even when they are the fastest kids because they have no concept of the game. Too many missed out opportunities because players never look for the next out. Sure it can be taught to some degree but the instincts to just know when/what/where to go/do is very costly. That takes hundreds or thousands of innings in game situations to develop.

An org will draft a kid and stick the single A coach to fix it