George Will: Being a Rape Victim is now a "coveted status" (1 Viewer)

[badmojo1006]

The conservative titan wrote about "the supposed campus epidemic of rape, a.k.a. 'sexual assault,'" in a piece on Friday. He put this trend down to increased political correctness on college campuses, which, he said, was proving that when universities "make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate."

 

[Todd Andrews]

Brilliant

 

[Freelove]

CIVIL RIGHTS ACT!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

 

[Joe Summer]

He put this trend down to increased political correctness on college campuses

Well, he's probably right about that. Back in the old days it was politically incorrect for a woman to report a sexual assault, just like it used to be politically incorrect to report domestic violence, or drunk driving, etc., etc.,

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Yeah, it really doesn't help when you distort his writing in your headline.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Here's the actual article:

Colleges and universities are being educated by Washington and are finding the experience excruciating. They are learning that when they say campus victimizations are ubiquitous (“micro-aggressions,” often not discernible to the untutored eye, are everywhere), and that when they make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate. And academia’s progressivism has rendered it intellectually defenseless now that progressivism’s achievement, the regulatory state, has decided it is academia’s turn to be broken to government’s saddle.

Consider the supposed campus epidemic of rape, a.k.a. “sexual assault.” Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”:

“They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’”

Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped. Now the Obama administration is riding to the rescue of “sexual assault” victims. It vows to excavate equities from the ambiguities of the hookup culture, this cocktail of hormones, alcohol and the faux sophistication of today’s prolonged adolescence of especially privileged young adults.

The administration’s crucial and contradictory statistics are validated the usual way, by official repetition; Joe Biden has been heard from. The statistics are: One in five women is sexually assaulted while in college, and only 12 percent of assaults are reported. Simple arithmetic demonstrates that if the 12 percent reporting rate is correct, the 20 percent assault rate is preposterous. Mark Perry of the American Enterprise Institute notes, for example, that in the four years 2009 to 2012 there were 98 reported sexual assaults at Ohio State. That would be 12 percent of 817 total out of a female student population of approximately 28,000, for a sexual assault rate of approximately 2.9 percent — too high but nowhere near 20 percent.

Education Department lawyers disregard pesky arithmetic and elementary due process. Threatening to withdraw federal funding, the department mandates adoption of a minimal “preponderance of the evidence” standard when adjudicating sexual assault charges between males and the female “survivors” — note the language of prejudgment. Combine this with capacious definitions of sexual assault that can include not only forcible sexual penetration but also nonconsensual touching. Then add the doctrine that the consent of a female who has been drinking might not protect a male from being found guilty of rape. Then comes costly litigation against institutions that have denied due process to males they accuse of what society considers serious felonies.

Now academia is unhappy about the Education Department’s plan for government to rate every institution’s educational product. But the professors need not worry. A department official says this assessment will be easy: “It’s like rating a blender.” Education, gadgets — what’s the difference?

Meanwhile, the newest campus idea for preventing victimizations — an idea certain to multiply claims of them — is “trigger warnings.” They would be placed on assigned readings or announced before lectures. Otherwise, traumas could be triggered in students whose tender sensibilities would be lacerated by unexpected encounters with racism, sexism, violence (dammit, Hamlet, put down that sword!) or any other facet of reality that might violate a student’s entitlement to serenity. This entitlement has already bred campus speech codes that punish unpopular speech. Now the codes are begetting the soft censorship of trigger warnings to swaddle students in a “safe,” “supportive,” “unthreatening” environment, intellectual comfort for the intellectually dormant.

It is salutary that academia, with its adversarial stance toward limited government and cultural common sense, is making itself ludicrous. Academia is learning that its attempts to create victim-free campuses — by making everyone hypersensitive, even delusional, about victimizations — brings increasing supervision by the regulatory state that progressivism celebrates.

What government is inflicting on colleges and universities, and what they are inflicting on themselves, diminishes their autonomy, resources, prestige and comity. Which serves them right. They have asked for this by asking for progressivism.

 

[Mister Martie]

The full article is also stupid.

 

[Sarnoff]

I covet being taken advantage of by Gisele Bundchen. Is that wrong?

 

[17seconds]

This isn't an unusual position for Will at all - that liberal agendas cause institutional issues. The problem is he chose sexual assault as the example so he's navigating a minefield to make his point.

 

[Joe Summer]

The full article is also stupid.

"victimhood is a coveted status" is the new "she was asking for it".

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

"victimhood is a coveted status" is the new "she was asking for it".

Been on a college campus lately? If you can credibly argue that you're the victim in some little encounter, you gain a large rhetorical upper hand. It's not just leftists who play this game. Evangelicals and conservative crackpots like the folks who run the Dartmouth Review have been doing this for a couple of decades now.

 

[Freelove]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

No means yes.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

On a related note, to you think that colleges should be expelling students based on a "preponderance of the evidence" standard? Does it matter that these cases are adjudicated by college administrators and students as opposed to police detectives and legal professionals who are actually trained in this sort of thing? I would think that anybody with a civil libertarian bone in his body would have a problem with this.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

No means yes.

100% serious question: are you married or in a long-term relationship?

 

[joffer]

The full article is also stupid.

On a related note, to you think that colleges should be expelling students based on a "preponderance of the evidence" standard? Does it matter that these cases are adjudicated by college administrators and students as opposed to police detectives and legal professionals who are actually trained in this sort of thing? I would think that anybody with a civil libertarian bone in his body would have a problem with this.

no

 

[BigSteelThrill]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

No means yes.

100% serious question: are you married or in a long-term relationship?

If my wife said "No I dont want to have sex with you" it would flat out be rape if I did it anyway.

 

[Freelove]

Anyway, I don't think we can say anything definitive about the anecdotal sexual encounter described one way or another from the text of the article.

When you try to boil something as sensitive as sexual dynamics between partners who may or may not be willing participants into a couple lines of a partisan rant, virtually all you can be sure of is that you're not going to get a clear picture.

I don't know that Will's greater point is stupid, but his choice of vehicle in this case certainly seems to be.

 

[fatness]

George Will's column

Colleges and universities are being educated by Washington and are finding the experience excruciating. They are learning that when they say campus victimizations are ubiquitous (“micro-aggressions,” often not discernible to the untutored eye, are everywhere), and that when they make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate. And academia’s progressivism has rendered it intellectually defenseless now that progressivism’s achievement, the regulatory state, has decided it is academia’s turn to be broken to government’s saddle.

He's OK up to that point. Then he jumps into utter stupidity.

Consider the supposed campus epidemic of rape, a.k.a. “sexual assault.”

 

[Mister Martie]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

I thought it was pretty stupid to follow up with that anecdote with slamming Obama as "riding to the rescue" of "sexual assault." And we must make sure to put "sexual assault" in quotes to make sure everyone understands it's not really assault.It was a really strange article.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not particularly in the mood.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

 

[Sammy3469]

Just wow...I guess I shouldn't be surprised by any right wing "reasoning" these days.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

I thought it was pretty stupid to follow up with that anecdote with slamming Obama as "riding to the rescue" of "sexual assault." And we must make sure to put "sexual assault" in quotes to make sure everyone understands it's not really assault.It was a really strange article.

The part about slamming Obama (and the Department of Education) is spot-on. Title IX enforcement is a huge issue in academia right now, particularly due to this administration. You can pick up any random copy of The Chronicle of Higher Education and find something in the news on this topic. This deeply bothers me, because universities are almost uniquely incapable of handling these sorts of issues in a fair, judicious way. This is why we have a criminal justice system.

 

[Freelove]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not particularly in the mood.

Married for years.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with your sexual politics, but I also wouldn't rail against them.

But the relationship described in the article seems very, very different from what you describe. Again, not that you can necessarily tell from the brief sketch of their relationship presented. But I don't think the author does himself any favors in using those building blocks to construct his argument.

 

[timschochet]

I was just reading that in South Africa, there are 500,000 rapes a year. 1 out of every 4 men in the country has committed a rape. Unbelievable.

 

[Mister Martie]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

I thought it was pretty stupid to follow up with that anecdote with slamming Obama as "riding to the rescue" of "sexual assault." And we must make sure to put "sexual assault" in quotes to make sure everyone understands it's not really assault.It was a really strange article.

The part about slamming Obama (and the Department of Education) is spot-on. Title IX enforcement is a huge issue in academia right now, particularly due to this administration. You can pick up any random copy of The Chronicle of Higher Education and find something in the news on this topic. This deeply bothers me, because universities are almost uniquely incapable of handling these sorts of issues in a fair, judicious way. This is why we have a criminal justice system.

He could have made that point without trivializing sexual assault.

 

[Hooper31]

Yeah, it really doesn't help when you distort his writing in your headline.

I consider myself a pretty liberal dude, and I don't think Will is off base at all.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

The female student's line of thought doesn't determine whether it's rape or not. I'll wait for one of our many resident lawyers to jump in, but I'm guessing that no prosecutor would dream of pushing this case based on the information provided in the story. It's way to easy too interpret the woman's actions as silent consent. Do you think he should do prison time as a result of his actions? If not, you presumably don't think it's rape, right?

 

[Thunderlips]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not particularly in the mood.

But according to the article...they weren't partners.

That example is a weird situation......but I don't think it's the best example for the Will to use as a defense.

 

[Freelove]

Liberal-leaning me, upon reading Will's first sentence, was thinking, "Actually, that does sound sort of like a problem that progressivism run-amok could account for."

Upon concluding, my lingering thought is, "That read like a screed from a guy who engaged in some date rape back in the day."

That probably doesn't describe Will at all, who I'm sure was probably as virile and seductive as they came, in his prime. But he didn't do a very good job of controlling the flow of this reader's thought process throughout, if that's my takeaway.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

The female student's line of thought doesn't determine whether it's rape or not. I'll wait for one of our many resident lawyers to jump in, but I'm guessing that no prosecutor would dream of pushing this case based on the information provided in the story. It's way to easy too interpret the woman's actions as silent consent. Do you think he should do prison time as a result of his actions? If not, you presumably don't think it's rape, right?

Silent consent?

Had she already stated "No I dont want to have sex with you"?

 

[17seconds]

The full article is also stupid.

"victimhood is a coveted status" is the new "she was asking for it".

Been on a college campus lately? If you can credibly argue that you're the victim in some little encounter, you gain a large rhetorical upper hand. It's not just leftists who play this game. Evangelicals and conservative crackpots like the folks who run the Dartmouth Review have been doing this for a couple of decades now.

I think we can all agree that, at least historically, a large number of sexual assault victims never report the incident, right? Certainly less than if somebody walked up to you on the street, punched you in the face and took your wallet. It's not exactly human nature to tell the authorities that someone violated your privacy and had sex with you against your will.

The progressive response to that has been to make it easier for people to report assaults. To try to reduce the stigma and provide victims with a level of protection.

I don't see how we go from there to victimhood being a "coveted status". To covet something is to yearn for it. People yearn to be sexual assault victims?

I get his point that some people may game an imperfect system meant to help victims, but I think Will made too big a leap with his words.

And of course he lays it all on the progressive agenda. Like we shouldn't try to improve the environment for victims unless it is ironclad against false reports.

 

[dgreen]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

I thought it was pretty stupid to follow up with that anecdote with slamming Obama as "riding to the rescue" of "sexual assault." And we must make sure to put "sexual assault" in quotes to make sure everyone understands it's not really assault.It was a really strange article.

The part about slamming Obama (and the Department of Education) is spot-on. Title IX enforcement is a huge issue in academia right now, particularly due to this administration. You can pick up any random copy of The Chronicle of Higher Education and find something in the news on this topic. This deeply bothers me, because universities are almost uniquely incapable of handling these sorts of issues in a fair, judicious way. This is why we have a criminal justice system.

He could have made that point without trivializing sexual assault.

I think one of his points is that "sexual assault" and "rape" has been trivialized by labeling many events in such a way.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along

with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple

of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's

why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not

particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you

as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

How do you know what the student was thinking at the time it was happening?

 

[Slapdash]

Here's the actual article:

Colleges and universities are being educated by Washington and are finding the experience excruciating. They are learning that when they say campus victimizations are ubiquitous (“micro-aggressions,” often not discernible to the untutored eye, are everywhere), and that when they make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate. And academia’s progressivism has rendered it intellectually defenseless now that progressivism’s achievement, the regulatory state, has decided it is academia’s turn to be broken to government’s saddle.

Consider the supposed campus epidemic of rape, a.k.a. “sexual assault.” Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”:

“They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’”

Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.

Will is spot on here. An incident happened to a friend of mine while he was in college. He had been hooking up with a girl for a few weeks. They drifted apart and, weeks later, she claimed she had been raped. It was part a lack of responsibility and part her desire to hurt him. Either way, he had no way of defending himself from those claims. Luckily, the school did not kick him out for it and only banned him from those dorms.

Rape is a serious issue, but we do those victims a disservice by applying as broad as it is on today's campuses.

 

[Lutherman2112]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

Do you have a daughter?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along

with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple

of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's

why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not

particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you

as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

How do you know what the student was thinking at the time it was happening?

Because she reported it as such ... so that's what we go off of.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

Do you have a daughter?

Yes. I also have a son. Do you?

 

[Abraham]

Half the sex I had in college falls under the "we are drunk and using bad judgement And falling asleep but oh well let's just do it anyway because we are In bed together zzzzzzz.... Oh my gosh that party was awesome..."

 

[Lutherman2112]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

Do you have a daughter?

Yes. I also have a son. Do you?

21 years of marriage, two children, just like you; son and daughter.

I hope your daughter never has to deal with sexual assault, because your attitude wouldn't be of benefit to her.

 

[Gr00vus]

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along

with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple

of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's

why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not

particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you

as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

How do you know what the student was thinking at the time it was happening?

When the student says:

“No, I don’t want to have sex with you.”

To the person who's trying to have sex with them.

 

[Lutherman2112]

I was just reading that in South Africa, there are 500,000 rapes a year. 1 out of every 4 men in the country has committed a rape. Unbelievable.

The US is less than half of that...only 230,000 per year.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The full article is also stupid.

Weird. I mostly agreed with him.

For example, I assume we all agree that the anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex should be prosecuted.

Do you have a daughter?

Yes. I also have a son. Do you?

21 years of marriage, two children, just like you; son and daughter.

I hope your daughter never has to deal with sexual assault, because your attitude wouldn't be of benefit to her.

I hope she never has to deal with sexual assault either, obviously. My point (and Will's) is that the anecdote that he describes isn't "sexual assault" under any reasonable standard. I absolutely do not want my daughter to be raped. I also don't want my son to be falsely accused of rape. And I personally don't want to make policy based on emotionally-inflamed appeals to my children's hypothetical futures.

 

[mr roboto]

Sexual assault is the new unassailable claim. For too long too many cases went unreported. Many still do. Yet we have given most of the power to the accuser (please notice I chose 'accuser' instead of 'victim' - victims need power), and as evidenced in this thread, people get an immediate negative reaction to anyone suggesting that maybe, just maybe, indiscriminate sexual encounters lead to confusing sexual encounters.

Now with that I'm going to get grilled...

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

For example, I assume we all agree that the

anecdote he described is Not Rape, right? If we define "I don't want to have sex but I'll go along

with it so I can get some sleep" as rape, then a depressing large percentage of marital sex

should be prosecuted.

You see these as the same?

"No, I dont want to have sex with you."

and

"I dont want to have sex but ill go along with it."

Normally Mrs. Karamazov is in a state of unbridled lust every time I'm in the room. After all, I'm a FBG. But I will admit that in the 20 years of our marriage, there have been a couple

of occasions when I've been turned down initially but managed to change her mind thanks to dogged persistence on my part. Neither of us would describe those situations as rape. That's

why I asked Freelove if he was in a long-term relationship. All of us who realize that sometimes one partner goes along with things for the benefit of the other, even if they're not

particularly in the mood.

Then thats a different situation entirely.

She want to have sex with you... just not at that moment.

She still loves you and wants to provide for you

as a spouse does.

You think shes is thinking "im being raped" while it was going on? The student did.

How do you know what the student was thinking at the time it was happening?

Because she reported it as such ... so that's

what we go off of.

She filed a police report?

 

[3C's]

I was just reading that in South Africa, there are 500,000 rapes a year. 1 out of every 4 men in the country has committed a rape. Unbelievable.

You could have just as easily read that here in the States. No need to go all the way out there.

 

[Rove!]

Another W for the forces of division

congratulations and thanks to all for your contributions to this effort....