Georgia LB Javis Jones No Stenosis (1 Viewer)

[Bracie Smathers]

As reported by Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

What does this mean to the top of the NFL draft?

I think he's gone by the fourth pick, I can't see him lating longer than sixth, and very likely top-three.

My link

Georgia LB Jarvis Jones

... has been cleared to practice without restrictions, and he has no stenosis, according to a memo obtained by Dan Pompei of the Chicago Tribune and the National Football Post.

In the memo sent to NFL teams, leading orthopedist Dr. Craig Brigham concluded that Jones really doesn't have a career-threatening case of stenosis, or narrowing of the spinal column, afterall.

... Brigham said in the memo that Jones had suffered "either a very mild incident of spinal cord concussion or merely a stinger that has long since resolved." More importantly, he informed teams that even if he suffers a similar injury, it wouldn't necessarily be career-ending. After a recent exam, he wrote, "Jarvis is cleared to play without restriction.”

 

[amicsta]

I read this today as well. Very interesting. I think that teams will still want to have their own doctors check Jones out, but I agree, if this report holds water, he's a surefire top 5-6 pick. He wreaked havoc in the SEC for the last 2 seasons. Would you rather have a healthy Jones or Dion Jordan?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I read this today as well. Very interesting. I think that teams will still want to have their own doctors check Jones out, but I agree, if this report holds water, he's a surefire top 5-6 pick. He wreaked havoc in the SEC for the last 2 seasons. Would you rather have a healthy Jones or Dion Jordan?

I think a bit of it depends on the team who is deciding between them but one thing I saw of Dion Jordan that stood out to me is he utterly lacks any semblence of a BULL pass rush.I saw that when I was checking out cut-ups of his pass rush, zero bull rush. I then heard that from different NFL talking heads who saw the same thing and then I found this statistical source that backs it up with cold hard numbers.

He literally had ZERO bull rush sacks.

This is a great read BTW so check it out for a run-down of all of the top pass rush prospects.

Also they have charts that show each of the top guys side-by-side.

My link

Second Round Stats

Analyzing the NFL Draft Through Statistics and Film Study

A Statistical Breakdown of the Top Pass Rushers (Pt. 1, Sacks)

Posted on February 27, 2013

How Did They Get There?

This is a breakdown of what moves they used to get to the QB. I simplified it down to three categories instead of having a million different moves and counters.

•Both Jordan and Werner were strictly outside rush guys. Neither rusher tallied a sack from an initial inside move.

For a guy as tall as Jordan the lack of a bull rush means his great height is limited because he's not pushing the tackle back into passing lanes so he can put up thoe long mitts to bat down passes. He is basically getting stood up if he attempts a bull rush so he is limited to strictly going outside.Jarvis Jones got to the passer on a bull rush 15.3% of the time and on inside moves 23.08% of the time and outside rush 61.54% of the time.

Dion Jordan literally had 0% of his sacks from a bull pass rush and 0% from inside moves and 100% of his sacks coming outside the tackle.

Dion Jordan is very good but he is a one-trick-pony pass rusher. I highly value a pass rusher who can get there in different ways so I'd go Jarvis Jones over Dion Jordan.

 

[amicsta]

I read this today as well. Very interesting. I think that teams will still want to have their own doctors check Jones out, but I agree, if this report holds water, he's a surefire top 5-6 pick. He wreaked havoc in the SEC for the last 2 seasons. Would you rather have a healthy Jones or Dion Jordan?

I think a bit of it depends on the team who is deciding between them but one thing I saw of Dion Jordan that stood out to me is he utterly lacks any semblence of a BULL pass rush.I saw that when I was checking out cut-ups of his pass rush, zero bull rush. I then heard that from different NFL talking heads who saw the same thing and then I found this statistical source that backs it up with cold hard numbers.

He literally had ZERO bull rush sacks.

This is a great read BTW so check it out for a run-down of all of the top pass rush prospects.

Also they have charts that show each of the top guys side-by-side.

My link

Second Round Stats

Analyzing the NFL Draft Through Statistics and Film Study

A Statistical Breakdown of the Top Pass Rushers (Pt. 1, Sacks)

Posted on February 27, 2013

How Did They Get There?

This is a breakdown of what moves they used to get to the QB. I simplified it down to three categories instead of having a million different moves and counters.

•Both Jordan and Werner were strictly outside rush guys. Neither rusher tallied a sack from an initial inside move.

For a guy as tall as Jordan the lack of a bull rush means his great height is limited because he's not pushing the tackle back into passing lanes so he can put up thoe long mitts to bat down passes. He is basically getting stood up if he attempts a bull rush so he is limited to strictly going outside.Jarvis Jones got to the passer on a bull rush 15.3% of the time and on inside moves 23.08% of the time and outside rush 61.54% of the time.

Dion Jordan literally had 0% of his sacks from a bull pass rush and 0% from inside moves and 100% of his sacks coming outside the tackle.

Dion Jordan is very good but he is a one-trick-pony pass rusher. I highly value a pass rusher who can get there in different ways so I'd go Jarvis Jones over Dion Jordan.

Wow, great read. That one's going right into my favorites. Really highlights Alex Okafor's skills too. Thanks!

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Here is a great example of why I highly value a pass rusher who can go around the edge or press the gap inside and has a bull pash rush.

Adam Caplan had Greg Cosell in to go over the free agent pass rushers of this class and when showing tape of DE/OLB Dwight Freeny he explains that Freeny is an edge pass rusher or what Cosell calls 'dipping the hip' to get low around the corner but he also has the ability to bull rush the QB.

He calls it SPEED TO POWER.

Here is the link and this is also a highly reccomended video for anyone who wants a bit more detail on pass rushers..

Fantastic breakdown for what you want to

My link

Posted:8 hours ago

Film Room: Previewing Pass Rushers

In this segment of our Free Agency Film Room, NFL Insider Adam Caplan is joined by NFL Films Senior Producer Greg Cosell to break down the defensive end position in free agency and what kind of players may hit the open market on Tuesday ...

 

[GroveDiesel]

The article I read on Pro Football Post didn't actually say he didn't have stenosis. In fact, it almost seemed specifically NOT to say that. It said that he never had a severe spinal contusion and either had a mild one or just a neck sprain/stinger. It also said he was not at an increased risk of suffering a spinal contusion. The report by Dan Pompeii seems to go out of its way not to use the word stenosis at all.

The positive is that the orthopedic doctor said he is not at risk going forward and is 100% cleared to play, but it seems fishy to me that the underlying concern, the stenosis of the spine, isn't even mentioned.

If he's truly healthy though, he's the #1 player in the draft IMO

 

[jurb26]

If true, I'm assuming it is, then he no way should get past pick 5.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I read this today as well. Very interesting. I think that teams will still want to have their own doctors check Jones out, but I agree, if this report holds water, he's a surefire top 5-6 pick. He wreaked havoc in the SEC for the last 2 seasons. Would you rather have a healthy Jones or Dion Jordan?

I think a bit of it depends on the team who is deciding between them but one thing I saw of Dion Jordan that stood out to me is he utterly lacks any semblence of a BULL pass rush.I saw that when I was checking out cut-ups of his pass rush, zero bull rush. I then heard that from different NFL talking heads who saw the same thing and then I found this statistical source that backs it up with cold hard numbers.

He literally had ZERO bull rush sacks.

This is a great read BTW so check it out for a run-down of all of the top pass rush prospects.

Also they have charts that show each of the top guys side-by-side.

My link

Second Round Stats

Analyzing the NFL Draft Through Statistics and Film Study

A Statistical Breakdown of the Top Pass Rushers (Pt. 1, Sacks)

Posted on February 27, 2013

How Did They Get There?

This is a breakdown of what moves they used to get to the QB. I simplified it down to three categories instead of having a million different moves and counters.

•Both Jordan and Werner were strictly outside rush guys. Neither rusher tallied a sack from an initial inside move.

For a guy as tall as Jordan the lack of a bull rush means his great height is limited because he's not pushing the tackle back into passing lanes so he can put up thoe long mitts to bat down passes. He is basically getting stood up if he attempts a bull rush so he is limited to strictly going outside.Jarvis Jones got to the passer on a bull rush 15.3% of the time and on inside moves 23.08% of the time and outside rush 61.54% of the time.

Dion Jordan literally had 0% of his sacks from a bull pass rush and 0% from inside moves and 100% of his sacks coming outside the tackle.

Dion Jordan is very good but he is a one-trick-pony pass rusher. I highly value a pass rusher who can get there in different ways so I'd go Jarvis Jones over Dion Jordan.

Wow, great read. That one's going right into my favorites. Really highlights Alex Okafor's skills too. Thanks!

Actually, isn't there a lot of talk that Oregon didn't even ask Jordan to rush the passer inside? They didn't ask him to rush the passer much at all in fact. Of course, they could possibly have avoided asking him to rush inside because he wasn't able to. I do like Jones more though. Jordan could possibly be a better all around player though as he is excellent in coverage and in the run game too.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The article I read on Pro Football Post didn't actually say he didn't have stenosis. In fact, it almost seemed specifically NOT to say that. It said that he never had a severe spinal contusion and either had a mild one or just a neck sprain/stinger. It also said he was not at an increased risk of suffering a spinal contusion. The report by Dan Pompeii seems to go out of its way not to use the word stenosis at all.

The positive is that the orthopedic doctor said he is not at risk going forward and is 100% cleared to play, but it seems fishy to me that the underlying concern, the stenosis of the spine, isn't even mentioned.

If he's truly healthy though, he's the #1 player in the draft IMO

I was able to track down the original report by Pompei from NFP (National Football League Post) Sunday Blitz edition.My link

... Things I Didn’t Used To Know

*Jarvis Jones’ neck injury is starting to look like it might be a non-issue on draft day, and there is little chance he will fall out of the top 10. In a medical report that was sent to NFL teams, leading orthopedist Craig Brigham refutes that Jones ever had a significant spinal cord contusion. When he was at Southern Cal, the pass rusher was diagnosed with one, and Southern Cal did not allow him to play in 2010. Jones transferred to Georgia and played two seasons with no problems. Brigham concluded that Jones either had a very mild incident of spinal cord concussion or merely a stinger that has long since resolved. Even if another similar injury occurred, Brigham concluded it would not be a career ending issue. After recently examining Jones, Brigham concluded, “Jarvis is cleared to play without restriction.”

Hmmmmnnn. Something here just doesn't seem right.Here is an ESPN report that goes into a bit more detail of what lead to USC removing Jarvis Jones from the playing field.

My link

... After eight promising games as a true freshman linebacker for USC, Jones was sidelined indefinitely with a neck injury, barred from putting on his pads or helmet. "It was," he says, "depressing."

The injury occurred against Oregon on Halloween in 2009. By all accounts, it was a routine hit, but after staying on the turf for a few seconds, he was removed from the game. Within days, he found himself in the hospital, where a specialist told him he had a "mild" case of spinal stenosis, a narrowing of the spinal column. "I've seen this over and over again," Jones remembers the doctor saying. "If you play the game long enough, things like this will happen."

The doctor told Jones he would be fine and he could play again. But the Trojans' team doctors thought the injury was much more serious and refused to clear him for contact; they eventually recommended that Jones retire from football....

... the hit happened. Jones broke off a blitz to make a tackle on a short check-down pass, but the Oregon receiver slid underneath, causing Jones' head to connect with the hip of a teammate. "I felt my shoulders go numb," he says.

After an unsettling moment, Jones rose and headed to the sideline, where medical staff immediately ran tests and determined he had a neck sprain. He missed the remainder of USC's 47-20 loss. When he returned to LA, Jones saw the specialist who buoyed his hopes of returning -- before the Trojans' doctors sunk them. Jones sat out the next game. He didn't play the next week either, or the next. Jones' status was still unclear when the season ended. "It seemed like just a regular linebacker injury," says Norton, who followed USC head coach Pete Carroll to the Seattle Seahawks after the season. "I don't think any of us thought it'd be as serious as it turned out."

Spring 2010 arrived with new coach Lane Kiffin at the helm, but the team doctors' prognosis remained the same. "There's a serious concern," Kiffin told reporters before spring practice, "that hits or a number of hits could lead to permanent damage."

At a loss, Jones began to wonder if other team doctors would clear him. So Carver High coach Dell McGee called Georgia, Florida State and Alabama on Jones' behalf. Not surprisingly, all of the coaches said that if doctors cleared him, they wanted him.

First, Jones received clearance from a doctor in North Carolina. Next, Georgia coach Mark Richt was by his side as he underwent tests at a hospital in Athens, three hours north of Columbus...

... Still, while his play speaks for itself, there's no putting the hit behind him yet. As the 2013 draft approaches, Jones' neck will likely be evaluated once more. "There are no absolutes when it comes to stenosis," says ESPN injury analyst Stephania Bell, a board-certified orthopedic clinical specialist. "It's not uncommon for doctors to have differing opinions, and players must be evaluated on an individual basis. But if the condition is severe, injury could result in permanent neurological damage."

Jones insists that his neck is fine. No pain. No numbness. He says the injury's lone lingering effect is mental: "I know what it's like to not have this game in my life."

And now he knows the will it takes to get it all back.

The kid can play but, hmmnn. Something obviously 'was' of concern medically. Maybe Doctor Jene can chime in on this one.

I've done a 'bit' of research on stenosis and it appears that it strikes an area of the spinal collumn making it thinner/weaker than the rest creating a dangerous condition that can be fatal or lead to catostrophic injury so USC obviously red flagged him and wouldn't allow him to play for 'some condition' that was reported as stenosis.

Hmmmnnn. I'm calling for backup on this one.

Paging Doctor Jene or anyone who might have an educated insight into the case of Jarvis Jones.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Slides down to the mid to late 1st.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Slides down to the mid to late 1st.

I honestly and truly don't know on these sorts of things and that is why I'm calling out anyone who can give some sort of insight.I lke him obviously but no way would I want him or anyone injured. I'd hate for my team to draft him and think everything is honky-dory and then have something awful happen a year or two down the line.Hoping someone can provide insight.

 

[gandalas]

Slides down to the mid to late 1st.

The Steelers certainly hope that he does. Replacement for James Harrison, perhaps?

 

[Tackling Dummies]

This is a Will Carroll/Dr. Bramel issue to sort through, but I'm assuming that he'll be off teams (near the top of the 1st) boards due to the risk.

What is the protocol of teams wanting to conduct their own testing on him?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Slides down to the mid to late 1st.

The Steelers certainly hope that he does. Replacement for James Harrison, perhaps?

I don't think anyone, not even the most cynical would want the kid to have stenosis even if it means he falls in the draft.The Steelers have Worlids slotted up to replace Harrison.This isn't an easy call, trying to figure out how this issue impacts Jarvis Jones draft status. Any team will give it serious consideration especially teams at the top of the draft.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

This is a Will Carroll/Dr. Bramel issue to sort through, but I'm assuming that he'll be off teams (near the top of the 1st) boards due to the risk. What is the protocol of teams wanting to conduct their own testing on him?

I know every NFL team has the exact same medical information to make things even. I don't think teams can conduct medical testing unless that is part of the official team interview process but that last part is speculative on my part.I know each team does get the exact same medical information on a numerical grading scale so all medical information is perfectly balanced and fair for each team, as it should be so no-one holds a competative advantage on medical information.In this particular case though, hmmnnn, I think its a call on how each team reads this information.I'm sure Doctor Jene is more attuned into other caes similiar to this one and I am positive he knows a heck of a lot more than I do on this issue.

 

[MAC_32]

Flashing back to positive reports about Da'Quan Bowers' knee this time 2 years ago.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Slides down to the mid to late 1st.

The Steelers certainly hope that he does. Replacement for James Harrison, perhaps?

I don't think anyone, not even the most cynical would want the kid to have stenosis even if it means he falls in the draft.The Steelers have Worlids slotted up to replace Harrison.

This isn't an easy call, trying to figure out how this issue impacts Jarvis Jones draft status. Any team will give it serious consideration especially teams at the top of the draft.

Just saw this about that 'bolded name' above.Gives an interesting behind the scenes insight into the Steelers draft war room showing that Head Coach Mike Tomlin pounded the table for Worlids over the LB that his scouting staff thought was the better player and so-far, his scouting staff looks like their scouting reports were correct over the gut of Mike Tomlin.

My link

... Where does Worilds factor in?

Somewhat lost in the discussions about Harrison is the plight of Worilds.

The Steelers drafted Worilds, pictured at right, in the second round in 2010, a defensive end at Virginia Tech that they projected as a 3-4 outside linebacker. It is a tactic they have used so many times through the years. On that day three years ago, some people involved in the Steelers draft expected them to choose linebacker Sean Lee of Penn State with their second pick. They were surprised when they took Worilds instead, and there are suspicions that Mike Tomlin stepped in and expressed his interest in Worilds over Lee.

There may be reasons why Worilds has made little impact in his three seasons, including a wrist injury last year and playing behind Pro Bowl players Harrison and LaMarr Woodley. But, in the normal course of events, the Steelers would let Harrison go and turn to Worilds, just as they let Joey Porter go in 2007 and turned to Harrison.

They were pursuing the soon-to-be-35-year-old Harrison to play one more season, which showed they were not confident Worilds can do the job. This time next year, Worilds will be an unrestricted free agent.

 

[The Hank]

Slides down to the mid to late 1st.

The Steelers certainly hope that he does. Replacement for James Harrison, perhaps?

I don't think anyone, not even the most cynical would want the kid to have stenosis even if it means he falls in the draft.The Steelers have Worlids slotted up to replace Harrison.

This isn't an easy call, trying to figure out how this issue impacts Jarvis Jones draft status. Any team will give it serious consideration especially teams at the top of the draft.

Just saw this about that 'bolded name' above.Gives an interesting behind the scenes insight into the Steelers draft war room showing that Head Coach Mike Tomlin pounded the table for Worlids over the LB that his scouting staff thought was the better player and so-far, his scouting staff looks like their scouting reports were correct over the gut of Mike Tomlin.

My link

... Where does Worilds factor in?

Somewhat lost in the discussions about Harrison is the plight of Worilds.

The Steelers drafted Worilds, pictured at right, in the second round in 2010, a defensive end at Virginia Tech that they projected as a 3-4 outside linebacker. It is a tactic they have used so many times through the years. On that day three years ago, some people involved in the Steelers draft expected them to choose linebacker Sean Lee of Penn State with their second pick. They were surprised when they took Worilds instead, and there are suspicions that Mike Tomlin stepped in and expressed his interest in Worilds over Lee.

There may be reasons why Worilds has made little impact in his three seasons, including a wrist injury last year and playing behind Pro Bowl players Harrison and LaMarr Woodley. But, in the normal course of events, the Steelers would let Harrison go and turn to Worilds, just as they let Joey Porter go in 2007 and turned to Harrison.

They were pursuing the soon-to-be-35-year-old Harrison to play one more season, which showed they were not confident Worilds can do the job. This time next year, Worilds will be an unrestricted free agent.

This is what I was coming in to post, the Steelers have not given Worlids a huge endorsement this offseason when they were trying to get a new deal w/ Harrison for so long.

OLB is considered one of Steelers top needs this offseason (as well as RB, WR, ILB, S and NT).. TE too