Get Your Butt Back To The Office (3 Viewers)

[bigbottom]

This is also a perfect time for companies to dictate employees back to the office because the job market is absolutely terrible right now. They treat it like a silent layoff knowing some will quit because of it…and maybe that’s their goal to cut expenses/salaries. And if they do need to replace those positions there’s hundreds of highly qualified unemployed people waiting and ready to fill the role.

This WSJ article suggests that fully WFH workers were 35% more likely to be laid off by companies, which seems somewhat counterintuitive given that they consume less overhead, but I guess proximity bias is a thing.

Another issue to consider is that fully WFH arrangements broaden the labor pool for open positions, and gives companies the opportunity to reduce compensation by hiring employees in low cost of living areas. So if you’re an AP Clerk living in Los Angeles and working remotely, you might see your job go to someone in rural Arkansas (or India) for half the pay. Not trying to be a WFH opponent or anything but there are some unintended consequences (or perhaps intended from the company standpoint) if WFH becomes mainstreamed. These may be issues that won’t affect anyone in this thread, but they definitely could affect our kids who are early in their careers.

Yeah this part always bugged me and is why I am all for having to come in a few days a week.

The flip is someone getting paid a NYC rate but living in Arkansas, which seems...unfair. There are definite benefits to going in office, but I think 1-2 days a week is a sweet spot.

Agreed. But getting paid an NYC rate and living in Arkansas only lasts if you are an outlier. Once WFH is mainstreamed and the opportunity to disperse the workforce to lower cost of living areas becomes normalized, you will see those NYC comp rates fall.

 

[Scoresman]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I'm in the same boat, although there are some days where it's busier. But a lot of days I finish early, but stay online available on Teams.

It's more like "I can finish the job they hired and paid me for by Noon". If they want to add more work, they can and should increase salary to match.

The job that I've had the last three months have involved managing a team that produces a lot of daily reporting. Some days we have issues with data or something else that cause these to take the full day. Without issues, we can pretty much get all of this out of the door by around noon-1. A couple of the guys will just take their scooters home and WFH all afternoon on these quiet days. I know they are not doing very much unless I'm asking them for specific work.

It doesn't bother me much, but it makes it harder for them to advance. The point I make to them is that I am happy to help cover for them and their work/life balance but making progress on the non-daily work as well as networking with other parts of the department that sit here are still important to their advancement. Hard to tell which path they want to go down.

Personally, I’m at the point where advancement is not worth having to go into the office. Not wasting 2 hours of my day commuting, and also having the efficiencies of mixing work and home chores is just too valuable.

It’s a shame that advancement is reliant so much on in person stuff, but it is true. It should be performance based, not based on how many in-office birthday cakes or happy hours you attend.

 

[bigbottom]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I'm in the same boat, although there are some days where it's busier. But a lot of days I finish early, but stay online available on Teams.

It's more like "I can finish the job they hired and paid me for by Noon". If they want to add more work, they can and should increase salary to match.

The job that I've had the last three months have involved managing a team that produces a lot of daily reporting. Some days we have issues with data or something else that cause these to take the full day. Without issues, we can pretty much get all of this out of the door by around noon-1. A couple of the guys will just take their scooters home and WFH all afternoon on these quiet days. I know they are not doing very much unless I'm asking them for specific work.

It doesn't bother me much, but it makes it harder for them to advance. The point I make to them is that I am happy to help cover for them and their work/life balance but making progress on the non-daily work as well as networking with other parts of the department that sit here are still important to their advancement. Hard to tell which path they want to go down.

Personally, I’m at the point where advancement is not worth having to go into the office. Not wasting 2 hours of my day commuting, and also having the efficiencies of mixing work and home chores is just too valuable.

It’s a shame that advancement is reliant so much on in person stuff, but it is true. It should be performance based, not based on how many in-office birthday cakes or happy hours you attend.

Fair point. But I don’t necessarily promote based on who does their TPS reports the best (i.e., performance). I promote based on a combination of good performance and possession of the skill set necessary to succeed in the higher position (e.g., leadership traits, interpersonal skills, management of others, demonstrated interest in business strategy) and those characteristics may be harder to evaluate with respect to someone you only interact with on zoom.

Also, I think people wanting to move up in an organization benefit greatly from workplace mentors. Those who are mentored often have a better sense for these longer term strategic goals and a broader perspective on the business. They are also known by those who are higher up. A mentor not only helps your development, but also becomes your advocate. And mentor relationships are very difficult to develop over zoom.

Again, this may not matter at all to those of us who are mature in our professions and not trying to advance in our careers. But for those entering the workforce, I think it’s a big deal. And I’ve been talking to my son a fair amount about these issues.

 

[culdeus]

There is a sweet spot. Those with 10+ years experience and skins on the wall can get away with less face time. Others can't.

Some people face time hurts. I'd rather not be judging someone on how socially awkward they are if they can fix **** and get production running. I know that happens.

 

[Instinctive]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I disagree. If you are efficient and great at the job and you get an "average day's work" in less than a day, you should not be penalized b/c you are faster/better/smarter/more efficient/whatever than the rest. I always hate this aspect of office work "Hey good Job Steve! Since you are done already, can you help out Brett?"

Nah....Brett needs to learn on his own how to be better.

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

At the same time, how do you create an organizational culture and train and improve people and apprentice them and provide career trajectories that are exciting if everyone is just like "nah f that guy he can learn on his own."

Did you learn everything on your own? I have an extremely high opinion of myself and my abilities and even I know I wouldn't be where I am without the help and lessons from others.

 

[the moops]

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

Nobody should be working 60-80, that is ridiculous

 

[Instinctive]

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

Nobody should be working 60-80, that is ridiculous

Ehh. People will do a lot of things for money.

 

[shuke]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

 

[Nugget]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Run a monthly production program. The calendar dictates the program timing and there is a set cadence of meetings. Build the deck, compare to budget program, compare program over program, implement changes, rinse and repeat.

 

[the moops]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Do you just have an infinite amount of paperwork on your desk? Like you finish one project and then comes another and another?

I oversee design/fabrication of stuff. Don't need to go into too much detail, but we have a schedule laid out that stretches 30 months into the future. Some projects are just in development, some are in design, some are in fabrication - and others are in some mess of a situation amongst all three of those phases. If I am doing my job properly, I actually don't really need to do my job. If that makes sense? The right people on my team have the correct information and are doing their thing. I may hop in and help with some development/design/fabrication but being the boss man allows me to only do that when I want to. Or occasionally when I have to because **** has gone sideways.

So there are plenty of times when there is nothing for me to do besides check in on stuff/people.

To answer your question though. Yes, I have finite amount of work.

 

[Battersbox]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I disagree. If you are efficient and great at the job and you get an "average day's work" in less than a day, you should not be penalized b/c you are faster/better/smarter/more efficient/whatever than the rest. I always hate this aspect of office work "Hey good Job Steve! Since you are done already, can you help out Brett?"

Nah....Brett needs to learn on his own how to be better.

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

At the same time, how do you create an organizational culture and train and improve people and apprentice them and provide career trajectories that are exciting if everyone is just like "nah f that guy he can learn on his own."

Did you learn everything on your own? I have an extremely high opinion of myself and my abilities and even I know I wouldn't be where I am without the help and lessons from others.

This is the big question at my firm. Those of us who are veterans with years of great track record absolutely do not need to be in the office to do our jobs and continue to produce. Management grudgingly acknowledges that fact, but then follows up with a plea for vets to come in to the office so the youngsters have people to learn from. I understand their concern, but seems to me if they want me to train up more producers they should incentivize me to do it. It's and interesting dynamic that has surfaced in the past several years...who's responsibility is it to train up the next generation of staff, management or current staff? Seems naive to me to think current staff would be willing to go above and beyond to train up their own replacements.

 

[Terpman22]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I disagree. If you are efficient and great at the job and you get an "average day's work" in less than a day, you should not be penalized b/c you are faster/better/smarter/more efficient/whatever than the rest. I always hate this aspect of office work "Hey good Job Steve! Since you are done already, can you help out Brett?"

Nah....Brett needs to learn on his own how to be better.

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

At the same time, how do you create an organizational culture and train and improve people and apprentice them and provide career trajectories that are exciting if everyone is just like "nah f that guy he can learn on his own."

Did you learn everything on your own? I have an extremely high opinion of myself and my abilities and even I know I wouldn't be where I am without the help and lessons from others.

This is the big question at my firm. Those of us who are veterans with years of great track record absolutely do not need to be in the office to do our jobs and continue to produce. Management grudgingly acknowledges that fact, but then follows up with a plea for vets to come in to the office so the youngsters have people to learn from. I understand their concern, but seems to me if they want me to train up more producers they should incentivize me to do it. It's and interesting dynamic that has surfaced in the past several years...who's responsibility is it to train up the next generation of staff, management or current staff? Seems naive to me to think current staff would be willing to go above and beyond to train up their own replacements.

This is it for me too. I'm in logistics, at a freight broker. Lot of ins/outs to learn about transportation of goods. For the longest time its kinda been "well you're in sales, so if you wanna make money, you gotta make sure the operations people know whats going on" which always translated to "We'll give them a week of training, but the rest is on you" and now that I've been remote for so long its like "I mean if you *really* want me to train people, how much do I get paid for that? Oh? Nothing? Cool. I'll just keep doing what I do and worry about my own book of business and make sure I hit the numbers each month to 1. keep my job and 2. provide the life for my family I want to.

the bosses: BUT WHAT IF WE TELL YOU WE ARE GONNA BUY 10 PIZZAS!!!

.......................

 

[HomerSimpson]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I disagree. If you are efficient and great at the job and you get an "average day's work" in less than a day, you should not be penalized b/c you are faster/better/smarter/more efficient/whatever than the rest. I always hate this aspect of office work "Hey good Job Steve! Since you are done already, can you help out Brett?"

Nah....Brett needs to learn on his own how to be better.

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

At the same time, how do you create an organizational culture and train and improve people and apprentice them and provide career trajectories that are exciting if everyone is just like "nah f that guy he can learn on his own."

Did you learn everything on your own? I have an extremely high opinion of myself and my abilities and even I know I wouldn't be where I am without the help and lessons from others.

I'm literally the opposite. (I do work at a small firm however) I was only like 3 weeks on the job, mostly filing papers and the Head of Operations quit. They pulled me into a room and were like "It's your job now, figure it out" So I "figured it out " (by making lot's of mistakes) I've been doing it 19 years now haha

 

[supermike80]

I absolutely despise working from home. Don't wanna do it, and most likely will never do it. Just not for me.

 

[belljr]

When I work at home I can get like a whole days work done before noon, eat lunch, take a nap, go for a bike ride, check in on a few emails around 330 then call it a day. I can't accomplish all that in the office

If you can get a whole day’s work done before noon, then hey, perhaps it is time to redefine the term “whole day’s work.”

I disagree. If you are efficient and great at the job and you get an "average day's work" in less than a day, you should not be penalized b/c you are faster/better/smarter/more efficient/whatever than the rest. I always hate this aspect of office work "Hey good Job Steve! Since you are done already, can you help out Brett?"

Nah....Brett needs to learn on his own how to be better.

I see two sides to that. On the one hand, yeah - I can do my job in 35-40 hours a week and most people take 60-80 for it...and I'm mostly like "sucks for them."

At the same time, how do you create an organizational culture and train and improve people and apprentice them and provide career trajectories that are exciting if everyone is just like "nah f that guy he can learn on his own."

Did you learn everything on your own? I have an extremely high opinion of myself and my abilities and even I know I wouldn't be where I am without the help and lessons from others.

This is the big question at my firm. Those of us who are veterans with years of great track record absolutely do not need to be in the office to do our jobs and continue to produce. Management grudgingly acknowledges that fact, but then follows up with a plea for vets to come in to the office so the youngsters have people to learn from. I understand their concern, but seems to me if they want me to train up more producers they should incentivize me to do it. It's and interesting dynamic that has surfaced in the past several years...who's responsibility is it to train up the next generation of staff, management or current staff? Seems naive to me to think current staff would be willing to go above and beyond to train up their own replacements.

I used to understand this line of thinking. But now I can face-to-face someone on teams calls then share my screen. They can share their screen. How's that any different than sitting next to me looking at one PC?

 

[ChiefD]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

I have a job like that. I come in, manage the projects I'm involved with, and leave at 4:30 everyday and don't worry about any of it. I just think of it like every project has a step, and I do the steps that day that is required of it, and move on.

For me, I don't carry any stress or angst about work anymore. My previous job in KC ate me alive. Nothing is worth that stress. Plus I'm old enough now that I'm just not going to deal with that anymore. I've suffered enough at work.

It's just work.

 

[belljr]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

My workflow varies based on issues and test schedule. I'm a second level field support engineer/test support

So when testing rolls around I have about 20 databases to setup. So when they are setup I'm done.

If no one calls in for field support I have no tasks there. Some tasks take a couple hours and some takes a week or so.

If another call comes in then I have another task.

I go some weeks with no actual due work, and I'll help out on things here and there.

Then some weeks I'm swamped. I don't work on anything that we have to schedule out ahead of time a develop the project.

I basically put out fires or research and issue

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

I have a job like that. I come in, manage the projects I'm involved with, and leave at 4:30 everyday and don't worry about any of it. I just think of it like every project has a step, and I do the steps that day that is required of it, and move on.

For me, I don't carry any stress or angst about work anymore. My previous job in KC ate me alive. Nothing is worth that stress. Plus I'm old enough now that I'm just not going to deal with that anymore. I've suffered enough at work.

It's just work.

This is where I'm at. I've mentored a few folks, last 2 years I've been the department mentor for the high school interns as well... no way I could do that from home. But also, I'm not going anywhere near the corporate ladder. It's just a job.

I'm at home 2-3 days a week for other reasons (7 year old going through chemo) and my company has been great with that as well as great with my weird schedule with coaching HS soccer. I just told my direct boss that I'm kinda over the home thing, ready to be in the office e more. I get my stuff done but it's just different.

Projects have hard dates but there's always another 2,3,4 in various phases. I can absolutely do everything from home. I enjoy the flexibility but I can also see the need to be in office at least some.

 

[shuke]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Do you just have an infinite amount of paperwork on your desk? Like you finish one project and then comes another and another?

Not paperwork but work, yes.

 

[AAABatteries]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Do you just have an infinite amount of paperwork on your desk? Like you finish one project and then comes another and another?

Not paperwork but work, yes.

I could probably work 12 hour days, 7 days a week and there’d still more work I could do. I have to make the decisions on what to ignore, what to wait on, what to delegate and what to do.

 

[-OZ-]

Those of us who are veterans with years of great track record absolutely do not need to be in the office to do our jobs and continue to produce. Management grudgingly acknowledges that fact, but then follows up with a plea for vets to come in to the office so the youngsters have people to learn from. I understand their concern, but seems to me if they want me to train up more producers they should incentivize me to do it. It's and interesting dynamic that has surfaced in the past several years...who's responsibility is it to train up the next generation of staff, management or current staff? Seems naive to me to think current staff would be willing to go above and beyond to train up their own replacements.

Similar here. We divide our office into three teams. The larger team hires many more people with less experience. The new people come in every day for at least a few months. Supervisors on that side come in most days but not every, but there’s always a veteran there to help. The other two teams including mine are all experienced, we get more freedom to go in or not.

For my team, about half go in every day by choice. I don’t, and it hasn’t been an issue at all. I’m on MS teams multiple times every day, almost entirely with people not in our building so there isn’t much difference.

As for workload, it never ends but I refuse to work more than 40 hours a week except the three months a year where the program I lead gets really busy. I also teach a few times a month, so if I do have some down time, I try to improve those sessions. I don’t really have to, but I find it a lot more enjoyable when I do. Then there’s other training we take, which really is never ending. So there’s always something, it’s just a question of urgency, importance and personal value.

 

[the moops]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Do you just have an infinite amount of paperwork on your desk? Like you finish one project and then comes another and another?

Not paperwork but work, yes.

I could probably work 12 hour days, 7 days a week and there’d still more work I could do. I have to make the decisions on what to ignore, what to wait on, what to delegate and what to do.

Sounds awful

 

[coopersdad]

I work in FPA (financial planning and analysis for a large brand of a global company), so our "year" is basically a "rinse and repeat" of 12 months of "actual and forecast" 3 months of next years budget, and 3 months of a 3 year strategic plan.

We used to be work from home for 2 1/2 years after covid. Then we moved to 2 days in the office, and now we are 3 days in the office.

Been at this company for 20+ years moving up from analyst to director. 2 weeks of a normal month are busy, and 2 weeks I "save" work for days that I'm in the office so that I have stuff to do and not just go to meetings.

When at home I live by the code that every hour I get up for 10 minutes and do something else: laundry, dusting, watering plants outside, small tasks...........that way it's done when I get off at the end of the day. We are only allowed to schedule meetings for 25 or 50 minutes, so this helps.

Can't see myself going back to the office full time. Adding Thursday onto Tue/Wed was enough. We have summer Friday afternoons off but they stopped that starting Sep, but our president said "if you are done and don't have meetings", just be available, no need to sit at your desk............so I take my laptop to the patio and get other stuff done.

Can't believe that when I was younger I routinely worked 55-60 hour weeks, but I guess that got me to the position that I'm in today. Hope to make it another 9 years until retirement (delayed by that old Eddie Murphy joke that you don't realize how big half is until she takes it).

Good luck and have a great weekend.

 

[the moops]

When at home I live by the code that every hour I get up for 10 minutes and do something else: laundry, dusting, watering plants outside, small tasks...........that way it's done when I get off at the end of the day. We are only allowed to schedule meetings for 25 or 50 minutes, so this helps.

This is good stuff. My wife is like this - always doing 5 or 10 minutes of stuff every hour while working. I am lazy, so my 5 or 10 minutes of stuff is wasting time in this place.

Love the 25 or 50 minute meeting idea. I would even go for the 20 minute or 45 minute. Nearly every one of my meetings is an hour. It's dumb. Some of them should be 10 minutes, some should be 2 hours, some could written in an email.

 

[eoMMan]

If you have a WFH job, appreciate it and really think about what it allows you to do (freedom) versus an in office position.

I started a 100% in office job (day 2 now) and I miss my WFH job, even with the aspects of that job that annoyed me.

WFH jobs rock.

Day five of my new in-office job…

You wouldn’t believe how many times I heard someone say “At least it’s Friday!” or “Happy Friday!”…

We know it’s Friday, Linda. Settle down over there.

 

[Desert_Power]

If you have a WFH job, appreciate it and really think about what it allows you to do (freedom) versus an in office position.

I started a 100% in office job (day 2 now) and I miss my WFH job, even with the aspects of that job that annoyed me.

WFH jobs rock.

Day five of my new in-office job…

You wouldn’t believe how many times I heard someone say “At least it’s Friday!” or “Happy Friday!”…

We know it’s Friday, Linda. Settle down over there.

Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Fridays.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

If you have a WFH job, appreciate it and really think about what it allows you to do (freedom) versus an in office position.

I started a 100% in office job (day 2 now) and I miss my WFH job, even with the aspects of that job that annoyed me.

WFH jobs rock.

Day five of my new in-office job…

You wouldn’t believe how many times I heard someone say “At least it’s Friday!” or “Happy Friday!”…

We know it’s Friday, Linda. Settle down over there.

Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Fridays.

Laugh emoji

 

[shuke]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Do you just have an infinite amount of paperwork on your desk? Like you finish one project and then comes another and another?

Not paperwork but work, yes.

I could probably work 12 hour days, 7 days a week and there’d still more work I could do. I have to make the decisions on what to ignore, what to wait on, what to delegate and what to do.

Same

 

[Battersbox]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

 

[Capella]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

 

[BassNBrew]

Can someone explain to me what these jobs are where there is a finite amount of work, and you know at some point when it is done?

I'm not judging, just trying to understand what these roles are. I can't fathom it.

Probably most places based on the hold times for customer service.

IRS - "Call volume is high, call back tomorrow" - Click

Two medical offices - hour plus wait to dal with a billing error.

Software provider for login issue- Call volume is high, send us an e-mail and we'll respond in 24 hours. - Click

Seems like most places could eliminate some of these part time jobs and hire people to actually assist there customers.

 

[eoMMan]

What percentage less money would you take in order to work from home versus 100% in the office? (Assume both roles are essentially the same)

It’s tough. You have to consider gas and general wear/tear on your car. The IRS mileage rate is currently $0.67/mile….it adds up quickly. Then you have all the commuting time plus the extra time to get ready for work (iron clothes, prep lunch, etc). Hmmm

 

[belljr]

What percentage less money would you take in order to work from home versus 100% in the office? (Assume both roles are essentially the same)

It’s tough. You have to consider gas and general wear/tear on your car. The IRS mileage rate is currently $0.67/mile….it adds up quickly. Then you have all the commuting time plus the extra time to get ready for work (iron clothes, prep lunch, etc). Hmmm

But you would have to offset the more utilities being used such as water heating/cooling is the big one.

top of my head id say 5%

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

 

[[icon]]

Loving my home office at the new house in Chattanooga.

Incredibly comfortable. usually working in Boxers and a Tee shirt. If I had a rough night I answer emails from bed till 9 or so. If it's a slow Friday, I can hit the pub and work from the bar.

Food and Beverages just down the hall. No morons coming by to tell me about how little Jimmy just hit a home run or how they can't wait till Friday.

Pick up the cigar box guitar and noodle or walk a lap around the neighborhood when I'm needing a break.

Putting under 10k miles a year on my car. Wear collared shirts once or twice a month.

Not going back.

 

[HomerSimpson]

What percentage less money would you take in order to work from home versus 100% in the office? (Assume both roles are essentially the same)

It’s tough. You have to consider gas and general wear/tear on your car. The IRS mileage rate is currently $0.67/mile….it adds up quickly. Then you have all the commuting time plus the extra time to get ready for work (iron clothes, prep lunch, etc). Hmmm

I was tired of commuting before covid. I was literally going to ask for a 20% decrease in pay to work 4 days a week. Then covid happened. Everyone realized we could all do the same job from home. They offered everyone a choice when they wanted us back in the office. A 10% raise to come back to the office or work from home on Fridays. I'm only one who said "I want both" and they gave it to me. Sometimes you just have to ask.

 

[culdeus]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

I mean they need to reduce headcount. Chopping WFH people probably has the same morale hit as removing/reducing free coffee and yoga.

 

[bigbottom]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

I had a lawyer who worked on my team maybe a year before Covid. When Covid happened we went fully remote for about 15 months after which we returned to the office on a hybrid schedule. Apparently, he really liked remote work so he quit to take a fully remote legal position. He got laid off from that job within six months and reapplied for a non-lawyer opening on my team for about 70% what he was making in the position he quit. I didn’t hire him back (figured he’d just continue looking for another fully remote gig).

I’m not sure why he was laid off, but as @culdeus notes, it’s a lot easier to lay off remote workers without impacting the morale of your workforce.

 

[The Z Machine]

it’s a lot easier to lay off remote workers without impacting the morale of your workforce.

Yup. This is undoubtedly true. I figure I have about 24 months tops before I get the axe. Although if I'm on a European contract, I hopefully have better severance and protections than if I was an MD based employee working at will.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

By travelling for 21 out of the last 25 days, I think I have found a way to avoid going to the office!

Oh wait....that's probably not a healthy, long-term approach as I have only been home for four nights out of the past 25....

 

[offdee]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

And there’s for sure people on the staff that live 2+ hrs away. Even if they were willing to come back into the office, what are they realistically supposed to do?

 

[Nugget]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

And there’s for sure people on the staff that live 2+ hrs away. Even if they were willing to come back into the office, what are they realistically supposed to do?

That’s is only like 30 miles in Southern California.

 

[offdee]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

And there’s for sure people on the staff that live 2+ hrs away. Even if they were willing to come back into the office, what are they realistically supposed to do?

That’s is only like 30 miles in Southern California.

That’s why I said 20+. Many probably in different states.

 

[bigbottom]

Amazon going all in.

Amazon ‘will return to being in the office the way we were’ before the pandemic, CEO tells employees

Amazon's new policy, starting next year, means that employees will no longer be able to work from home for two days a week by default.

www.geekwire.com

They are trying to cut jobs.

This is pretty obviously correct (Amazon has already cut a bunch of jobs), and it's also pretty telling. Amazon has apparently decided that the kind of person who is really attached to working from home is precisely the kind of person that they want to rid themselves of.

And there’s for sure people on the staff that live 2+ hrs away. Even if they were willing to come back into the office, what are they realistically supposed to do?

Per the article, Amazon is shifting from a hybrid schedule of 3 days in office and 2 days remote, to 5 days in office. So employees were already commuting to the office 3 days a week.

 

[culdeus]

Southwest is making route changes on account that biz travel may never really recover. Those Omaha to Cleveland routes may just go away.

 

[the moops]

Per the article, Amazon is shifting from a hybrid schedule of 3 days in office and 2 days remote, to 5 days in office. So employees were already commuting to the office 3 days a week.

I am not sure if this is the case with Amazon, but I know some people that had to commute 2+ hours to work, but would stay in a hotel or at a friends house for 2 nights. They would get up early Monday morning make the drive, spend Mon/Tue night somewhere, work Wednesday and make the drive home. That is somewhat doable for 3 says, but I imagine out of the question for most at 5 days.

 

[Grahamburn]

Wife’s full time remote gig just got reduced to part time at 40 hours per month.

The “company” is starting to figure things out a bit.

 

[Nugget]

If i didn’t work from home i would have called in sick today. Instead i worked from 6-8am, just drank NyQuil, and will work more from 11-3.

 

[bigbottom]

Per the article, Amazon is shifting from a hybrid schedule of 3 days in office and 2 days remote, to 5 days in office. So employees were already commuting to the office 3 days a week.

I am not sure if this is the case with Amazon, but I know some people that had to commute 2+ hours to work, but would stay in a hotel or at a friends house for 2 nights. They would get up early Monday morning make the drive, spend Mon/Tue night somewhere, work Wednesday and make the drive home. That is somewhat doable for 3 says, but I imagine out of the question for most at 5 days.

Re Amazon, the article indicates that they are returning to their former five day a week schedule, so longer tenured employees were already commuting to the office five days a week previously. I guess it’s possible they moved further away when Amazon went to 3 days a week in office, but that would be on them. In answer to your question about “what are they realistically supposed to do” I guess one response could be to move back to where you were living pre-pandemic since it was realistic for you to move away when Amazon went hybrid (or you could just choose to find other employment). As for people who were hired during the time that they only had to commute 3 days per week and they did so from 2+ hours away with overnight stays near the office, I guess they are out of luck if they can’t make five days in office work. But I’d have to think that’s a small group numbers wise relative to the larger population who are commuting to work three days a week (and were commuting five days a week previously).

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Amazon’s kind of an outlier because they have zero interest in employee retention. They see constant turnover as a feature, not a bug.