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Give Ed Hochuli a break (1 Viewer)

def2noiz

Footballguy
So Ed blew it...he will definitely suffer in the referee ratings (the ref's are graded after every game on their performance). He is a good ref, and has refereed the last couple super bowls. Not this year, but I think we should let it go at that. If his bad call has an impact on the playoff situation of either team there may be more to talk about in the future, but these guys are only human and situations like this are bound to happen. What do you guys think about it?

 
Agreed. He's one of the best refs in the league.

How many calls like Mike Carey blown over the years? I don't remember anybody going after him like this.

 
I think you are correct. Yes, he blew it, but he is only human, and humans make mistakes. Players make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes. Refs make mistakes. #### happens. Expecting perfection out of any human is unrealistic.

 
I'm still trying to figure out why people are chattering incessantly about this like so many hyperactive squirrels. I turned on 2 sports radio shows this morning and both were going on and on about it. It's not like he made the deciding call in the SB. Refs have blown calls before that cost teams a game. There have to be about 100 more interesting NFL things to talk about.....

 
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Refs make bad calls all the time. If he did anything wrong, he should learn to call all questionable passes/fumbles as fumbles, therefore no whistles. You can always go back and call it incomplete.

 
It's hard to see how anyone could have interpreted a ball that came out at chest level and flew backwards a yard was somehow an incomplete forward pass. Mistakes happen, but this kind of call defies logic.

 
So how many of you have Cutler on your FF team? Or had money on the Broncos? It seems the objectivity in this matter has more to do with fandom than logic.

 
as a high school and college ref I can promise you that nobody feels worse then Ed......it is one thing to miss a call, but to miss a call that is a game changer is a huge deal.....he knows he cost an NFL football team a win and they only get 16 games......I promise you he is sick to his stomach......

I have blown an inadvertant whistle that brought back a TD for one team....it did not have an affect on the outcome of the game, but it still bothered me to no end.....

the thing is, if he would have just been able to hold onto his whistle until after the SD player picked it up everything would have been fine

great official, big mistake....he will be downgraded, but it really won't mean anything, he may not work deep in the playoffs this year, but that's about it....you will see him in the Super Bowl again, and Mike Perrara and the powers at be may just do it to prove a point....people make mistakes and we move on....

 
So how many of you have Cutler on your FF team? Or had money on the Broncos? It seems the objectivity in this matter has more to do with fandom than logic.
Neither one for me.But I have seen lots of refs blow lots of calls, and as refs go, Hochuli is definitely one of the best. Maybe THE best.
 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
The point is that if the play was called correctly the Chargers shouldn't have had to stop them on the third down, the fourth down, or the two point conversion. I'm not a Chargers fan and I don't have a stake in this game one way or another and I do think people make mistakes and Ed shouldn't be crucified for the call however it was a bad call and the Chargers did get screwed. Just my opinion.
 
as a high school and college ref I can promise you that nobody feels worse then Ed......it is one thing to miss a call, but to miss a call that is a game changer is a huge deal.....he knows he cost an NFL football team a win and they only get 16 games......I promise you he is sick to his stomach......I have blown an inadvertant whistle that brought back a TD for one team....it did not have an affect on the outcome of the game, but it still bothered me to no end..... the thing is, if he would have just been able to hold onto his whistle until after the SD player picked it up everything would have been finegreat official, big mistake....he will be downgraded, but it really won't mean anything, he may not work deep in the playoffs this year, but that's about it....you will see him in the Super Bowl again, and Mike Perrara and the powers at be may just do it to prove a point....people make mistakes and we move on....
Nah. I think Ed thinks it's hysterical, then again steroids have odd effects on the human brain.
 
So how many of you have Cutler on your FF team? Or had money on the Broncos? It seems the objectivity in this matter has more to do with fandom than logic.
Neither one for me.But I have seen lots of refs blow lots of calls, and as refs go, Hochuli is definitely one of the best. Maybe THE best.
I would tend to agree with that. He's very good. Mistakes happen but that one seemed pretty cut-and-dry on TV. Just as an aside, I think the magnitude of this call is greater because of when it happened in the game. If this happens in the first quarter we're not talking about it (as much).
 
if he would have just been able to hold onto his whistle until after the SD player picked it up everything would have been fine
The problem is that NFL refs have "PROTECT THE QUARTERBACK AT ALL COST" drilled into their head so often, it's hard for them to hold the whistle. I'm sure as soon as the ball hit the ground, Ed had visions of Cutler being decapitated in a scrum by five Charger defenders.
 
I have to preface this by saying I'm a fan of neither team and there was no fantasy impact by these events.

There's a couple of big things that no one is talking about...

1. San Diego had 2 chances to stop Denver from taking the lead. Worse yet, Denver tran the same play and threw it to the same guy for both the TD and the 2 pt conversion. They didn't get the job done.

2. If it was an incomplete pass instead of a fumble, Ed hadn't blown the whistle, the play continued, Cutler got hurt then the play was reversed as an incomplete pass then Denver would be going nuts that a bad call cost them their QB.

Hochuli was a stand-up guy who immediately accepted fault for the bad call and didn't hide from Turner to avoid the tongue-lashing. Mistakes happen, deal with it, move on.

 
I have to preface this by saying I'm a fan of neither team and there was no fantasy impact by these events.

There's a couple of big things that no one is talking about...

1. San Diego had 2 chances to stop Denver from taking the lead. Worse yet, Denver tran the same play and threw it to the same guy for both the TD and the 2 pt conversion. They didn't get the job done.

2. If it was an incomplete pass instead of a fumble, Ed hadn't blown the whistle, the play continued, Cutler got hurt then the play was reversed as an incomplete pass then Denver would be going nuts that a bad call cost them their QB.

Hochuli was a stand-up guy who immediately accepted fault for the bad call and didn't hide from Turner to avoid the tongue-lashing. Mistakes happen, deal with it, move on.
And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.That's a lot of presupposing you are doing there. It is better to get the call right, then act to prevent the correct call from happening.

 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
No, but that's not the point. The game should never have gotten to where San Diego had to make such a play. Regardless, I agree that this overreaction-bordering-on-hysteria to Hoculi is crazy. He had a premature/inadvertant whistle, which is so impulsive that to even call it a judgment call flatters it with premeditation it didn't have. We've seen referees over the years get rules wrong, but that's not what happened here.Moreover, Hoculi immediately apologized and took ownership of the mistake, both over the PA system as well as to Norv Turner personally, and then proceeded to follow the rulebook as he should in followup to the play. #### happens.I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
 
I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
And what was up with all the shaking and stuttering? I thought he was about to have a seizure or burst into tears or something. Very strange press conference.
 
I dunno. I also think it's inaccurate to refer to this as a "blown call." Blown calls happen all the time- I saw several last night- and generally can be attributed to bad judgment on something that's at least open to interpretation. For example, let's say Cutler had fumbled the ball away while being hit and the referee had ruled that he had started moving his arm forward and thus it was an incomplete pass, but later replay showed that the ball was knocked away before the QB started moving his arm forward. That would be excusable even if he was wrong. A mistake like that happens once every couple of weeks.

What happened in Denver was different, and completely inexplicable. Nobody needed replay to figure out Hochuli botched the call. I would be surprised if a single TV viewer out of hundreds of thousands who thought that there was any defensible reason to whistle the play dead. I can't think of a single big, game-changing and possibly season-changing call that was so obviously wrong in real time. To pretend that's the same as blowing a pass interference call or some other judgment determination is totally wrong.

For the record: I cheer for an NFC team, and the events in the 4th quarter of this game had no impact on my fantasy team.

 
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Nah, forget that. They should make an example of him so all the rest of the refs get their act together. Those zebras are getting careless with their calls. If they reprimand a prestigious ref like this, the others will shape up. Why did he have to blow the whistle so quickly anyways? Not like Cutler was gonna get laid out or anything. He could of blew the call dead after the recovery.

For the record: I am not a SD or Broncos fan, and I actually benefited from the call fantasy wise when Royal scored twice. This is purely frustration with refs screwing outcomes of games.

 
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If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
The point is that if the play was called correctly the Chargers shouldn't have had to stop them on the third down, the fourth down, or the two point conversion. I'm not a Chargers fan and I don't have a stake in this game one way or another and I do think people make mistakes and Ed shouldn't be crucified for the call however it was a bad call and the Chargers did get screwed. Just my opinion.
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.

 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
No, but that's not the point. The game should never have gotten to where San Diego had to make such a play. Regardless, I agree that this overreaction-bordering-on-hysteria to Hoculi is crazy. He had a premature/inadvertant whistle, which is so impulsive that to even call it a judgment call flatters it with premeditation it didn't have. We've seen referees over the years get rules wrong, but that's not what happened here.

Moreover, Hoculi immediately apologized and took ownership of the mistake, both over the PA system as well as to Norv Turner personally, and then proceeded to follow the rulebook as he should in followup to the play. #### happens.

I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
What should he have said? Norv needs to get away from the nice-guy image and use this game as a rallying cry for his team, and that was the best way to go about it. Coaches use the "us against them" mentality all the time, so I find nothing wrong here.I bolded the part about his record because you didn't mention that he was also coaching some truly disgusting teams to compile that record. Now he's got a team with talent, and he's done a good job.

Bill Belichick started his career 41-55.

 
I can't think of a single big, game-changing and possibly season-changing call that was so obviously wrong in real time.
I can think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head. The biggest being an obvious fumble by Jerry Rice about 4 yards from the goal line. The Saints recovered the ball in the end zone but it was ruled a touchdown for the 49ers. This was probably 1998 or 99.
 
If they reprimand a prestigious ref like this, the others will shape up.
I'd prefer they reprimand those who screw up repeatedly and without consequence. I use my earlier example of Mike Carey........I don't think I've ever seen a game he officiated where there wasn't some major screwup.
 
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...

Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.

This is totally wrong. First, as you admitted, they didn't give up 39 points. They gave up 31 points, and the other eight happened mostly because of a blown call. In fact, a lot of people (myself included) would say that they only gave up 24 points, because that Bailey INT return that they couldn't review because the replay machine malfunctioned should have come back, too

Second, the Chargers didn't have three opportunities- making one stop doesn't take away a team's chance to score on the next stop.

And third, they also scored 38 points. Saying they "gave up" "39" points doesn't mean they automatically deserve a loss, if their offense is good enough to outscore the other team. Do the Cowboys deserve their win from last night, or should they forfeit because they gave up 37?

 
if he would have just been able to hold onto his whistle until after the SD player picked it up everything would have been fine
The problem is that NFL refs have "PROTECT THE QUARTERBACK AT ALL COST" drilled into their head so often, it's hard for them to hold the whistle. I'm sure as soon as the ball hit the ground, Ed had visions of Cutler being decapitated in a scrum by five Charger defenders.
:X It's this mentality that is WAAAAY too often causing plays to be pre-maturely blown dead. How many plays are blown dead for defensive off sides when the player is 25 feet from the QB on the edge? How many big offensive plays are called back because of a defensive PRE-SNAP penalty?While I'm on that particular soapbox....I'm getting tired of the 15 yard personal fouls when a defensive player jumps hoping to block a pass and his arm grazes a QB helmet on the way down...ridiculous. If the arm isn't movinf independant of the body, and it's not a late hit...then it shouldn't be a penalty.
 
as a high school and college ref I can promise you that nobody feels worse then Ed......it is one thing to miss a call, but to miss a call that is a game changer is a huge deal.....he knows he cost an NFL football team a win and they only get 16 games......I promise you he is sick to his stomach......I have blown an inadvertant whistle that brought back a TD for one team....it did not have an affect on the outcome of the game, but it still bothered me to no end..... the thing is, if he would have just been able to hold onto his whistle until after the SD player picked it up everything would have been finegreat official, big mistake....he will be downgraded, but it really won't mean anything, he may not work deep in the playoffs this year, but that's about it....you will see him in the Super Bowl again, and Mike Perrara and the powers at be may just do it to prove a point....people make mistakes and we move on....
Nah. I think Ed thinks it's hysterical, then again steroids have odd effects on the human brain.
:XTime to give old Ed a piss test...
 
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I can't think of a single big, game-changing and possibly season-changing call that was so obviously wrong in real time.
I can think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head. The biggest being an obvious fumble by Jerry Rice about 4 yards from the goal line. The Saints recovered the ball in the end zone but it was ruled a touchdown for the 49ers. This was probably 1998 or 99.
I'll admit I don't remember that one- did it keep an otherwise good Saints from going to the playoffs? I don't know if that will be the case here with the Chargers, but it's certainly a possibility.I'm sure there's others I don't remember, too.
 
I also think he's one of the best. What I'm finding hard to fathom, and everyone seems to be forgetting, is the call in the 1st half when the replay was malfunctioning, to Denver's benefit, in Denver. Yes, I despise the Broncos.

This was definitely out of Hochuli's control, but why no "investigation".

 
There's a couple of big things that no one is talking about...

1. San Diego had 2 chances to stop Denver from taking the lead. Worse yet, Denver tran the same play and threw it to the same guy for both the TD and the 2 pt conversion. They didn't get the job done.

2. If it was an incomplete pass instead of a fumble, Ed hadn't blown the whistle, the play continued, Cutler got hurt then the play was reversed as an incomplete pass then Denver would be going nuts that a bad call cost them their QB.
Holy sh** - you're absolutely right! :) How we've had 23 threads and 842 posts on this subject and those two things haven't been talked about is mind-boggling. But I'm sure glad you caught them.
 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
No, but that's not the point. The game should never have gotten to where San Diego had to make such a play. Regardless, I agree that this overreaction-bordering-on-hysteria to Hoculi is crazy. He had a premature/inadvertant whistle, which is so impulsive that to even call it a judgment call flatters it with premeditation it didn't have. We've seen referees over the years get rules wrong, but that's not what happened here.

Moreover, Hoculi immediately apologized and took ownership of the mistake, both over the PA system as well as to Norv Turner personally, and then proceeded to follow the rulebook as he should in followup to the play. #### happens.

I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
What should he have said? Norv needs to get away from the nice-guy image and use this game as a rallying cry for his team, and that was the best way to go about it. Coaches use the "us against them" mentality all the time, so I find nothing wrong here.I bolded the part about his record because you didn't mention that he was also coaching some truly disgusting teams to compile that record. Now he's got a team with talent, and he's done a good job.

Bill Belichick started his career 41-55.
Bill Belichick was also coaching a 3-0 team that he'd built from scratch and improved continuously, under the cheapskate Art Modell, only to have the rug pulled from under him when the move to Baltimore was announced in 1995. I know the Hoodie, the Hoodie is a good friend of mine, and Norv Turner is no Hoodie.

 
I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
And what was up with all the shaking and stuttering? I thought he was about to have a seizure or burst into tears or something. Very strange press conference.
That's just how a football nerd talks. We 'Skins fans got 7 years to get used to it.I still think the oddest post-game press conference performance was Scott Linehan's, who essentially led himself through his very own sputtering interview with reporters merely present. :loco:
 
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...

Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.
This is totally wrong. First, as you admitted, they didn't give up 39 points. They gave up 31 points, and the other eight happened mostly because of a blown call.
This is ridiculous. Where did I "admit" that they didn't give up 39 points? I said exactly the opposite - of course they gave up 39 points. Good call, bad call, whatever - the fact is they gave up 39 points. And they only scored 38. Last time I checked, that goes in the books as a loss.The fact remains that it is not Ed Hochuli's fault that the Chargers lost. It's the Chargers fault that they lost.

 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
The point is that if the play was called correctly the Chargers shouldn't have had to stop them on the third down, the fourth down, or the two point conversion. I'm not a Chargers fan and I don't have a stake in this game one way or another and I do think people make mistakes and Ed shouldn't be crucified for the call however it was a bad call and the Chargers did get screwed. Just my opinion.
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.
I couldn't disagree more, the Chargers should never have been put in the position to stop the Broncos, that there should be the end of the story but it was not.
 
I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
And what was up with all the shaking and stuttering? I thought he was about to have a seizure or burst into tears or something. Very strange press conference.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Norv Turner was caught in an explosion in a pineapple factory many years ago? If true I say give the guy a break. It takes a lot of courage to show your face to the national media 16 weeks a year after having gone through a terrible experience like that.
 
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...

Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.
This is totally wrong. First, as you admitted, they didn't give up 39 points. They gave up 31 points, and the other eight happened mostly because of a blown call.
This is ridiculous. Where did I "admit" that they didn't give up 39 points? I said exactly the opposite - of course they gave up 39 points. Good call, bad call, whatever - the fact is they gave up 39 points. And they only scored 38. Last time I checked, that goes in the books as a loss.The fact remains that it is not Ed Hochuli's fault that the Chargers lost. It's the Chargers fault that they lost.
I think if you were to ask Ed he would even tell you it was his fault.....SD put themselves in a position to win the game.....Ed gave Denver another chance to win the game that they did not deserve.....all this talk about how SD "still" could have stopped them is meaningless....they should not have had to stop them......that game was over....as said earlier, it is one thing to miss a call, but this was a game changing miss.....I also believe the no call on the PI on Wade last week was a game chnager, but even this call trumps that by a mile....I really like Ed and I feel really sorry for him, because you can say all you want that SD should have taken care of business, etc....but that call cost them the game......a game they were winning and would have won had ED not made a very big, obvious mistake...

 
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I give a lot of credit for Ed owning up to the call immediately. That's the mark of a really good ref, imo (as long as he's not screwing up every game).

 
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...

Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.
This is totally wrong. First, as you admitted, they didn't give up 39 points. They gave up 31 points, and the other eight happened mostly because of a blown call.
This is ridiculous. Where did I "admit" that they didn't give up 39 points? I said exactly the opposite - of course they gave up 39 points. Good call, bad call, whatever - the fact is they gave up 39 points. And they only scored 38. Last time I checked, that goes in the books as a loss.The fact remains that it is not Ed Hochuli's fault that the Chargers lost. It's the Chargers fault that they lost.
Sorry if I misinterpreted you - I guess it's that last part that I'm disagreeing with, ultimately. You can't just say they had a chance to win the game and they failed to do so, so they deserve the loss. You could say that about any call, any time. Let's say for example that the refs had penalized the Cowboys on the Eagles' last 4th down last night with an atrocious total phantom call that put the Eagles at the one yard line- maybe a pass interference in the end zone when no Cowboy came within 5 yards of an Eagle receiver and no Eagle receiver was within 20 yards of the end zone. And then the Eagles scored the winning TD. Would you say that it was Dallas's fault that they lost because they could have stopped the Eagles any number of other times, including at the one on the last series, or that they could have converted more of their drives into TDs? Or would you say that the refs handed the Eagles the game?

You have to admit that at some point, a referee's call can turn a win into a loss or vice versa. They have that power. If you don't think this was one of those cases, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 
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If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
The point is that if the play was called correctly the Chargers shouldn't have had to stop them on the third down, the fourth down, or the two point conversion. I'm not a Chargers fan and I don't have a stake in this game one way or another and I do think people make mistakes and Ed shouldn't be crucified for the call however it was a bad call and the Chargers did get screwed. Just my opinion.
:thumbup: SD played a flawless game and they lose because the REF makes a mistake. What else could SD have done to win the game?
 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
The point is that if the play was called correctly the Chargers shouldn't have had to stop them on the third down, the fourth down, or the two point conversion. I'm not a Chargers fan and I don't have a stake in this game one way or another and I do think people make mistakes and Ed shouldn't be crucified for the call however it was a bad call and the Chargers did get screwed. Just my opinion.
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.
I couldn't disagree more, the Chargers should never have been put in the position to stop the Broncos, that there should be the end of the story but it was not.
Football is all about stopping the other team. That's why it's so ridiculous to see all this :thumbup: about "Oh, the Chargers shouldn't have been put in a position to stop the Broncos." Of course they should have - that's their job for sixty minutes every Sunday.And the Chargers put themselves in that position. Maybe the Chargers shouldn't have let the Broncos march 79 yards down the field before the bad call happened. Maybe the Chargers shouldn't have let the Broncos score 31 points in the first half. The Chargers had ample opportunity to win this game and they didn't do it. To blame the loss on one call by the ref is sour grapes.

 
Not a Chargers fan or a Broncos fan, really didn't care about the outcome of this game. So...

Granted, the ref made a mistake. But you just mentioned THREE opportunities the Chargers had to make a play and win the game. Not to mention the other 59 1/2 minutes they were on the field.

Yes, it was a bad call. And yes, the Chargers gave up 39 points. They had countless opportunities to win this game, and they didn't. End of story.
This is totally wrong. First, as you admitted, they didn't give up 39 points. They gave up 31 points, and the other eight happened mostly because of a blown call.
This is ridiculous. Where did I "admit" that they didn't give up 39 points? I said exactly the opposite - of course they gave up 39 points. Good call, bad call, whatever - the fact is they gave up 39 points. And they only scored 38. Last time I checked, that goes in the books as a loss.The fact remains that it is not Ed Hochuli's fault that the Chargers lost. It's the Chargers fault that they lost.
Sorry if I misinterpreted you - I guess it's that last part that I'm disagreeing with, ultimately. You can't just say they had a chance to win the game and they failed to do so, so they deserve the loss. You could say that about any call, any time. Let's say for example that the refs had penalized the Cowboys on the Eagles' last 4th down last night with an atrocious total phantom call that put the Eagles at the one yard line- maybe a pass interference in the end zone when no Cowboy came within 5 yards of an Eagle receiver and no Eagle receiver was within 20 yards of the end zone. And then the Eagles scored the winning TD. Would you say that it was Dallas's fault that they lost because they could have stopped the Eagles any number of other times, including at the one on the last series, or that they could have converted more of their drives into TDs? Or would you say that the refs handed the Eagles the game?

You have to admit that at some point, a referee's call can turn a win into a loss or vice versa. They have that power. If you don't think this was one of those cases, we'll have to agree to disagree.
:thumbup:
 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
The point is that if the play was called correctly the Chargers shouldn't have had to stop them on the third down, the fourth down, or the two point conversion. I'm not a Chargers fan and I don't have a stake in this game one way or another and I do think people make mistakes and Ed shouldn't be crucified for the call however it was a bad call and the Chargers did get screwed. Just my opinion.
:tinfoilhat: SD played a flawless game and they lose because the REF makes a mistake. What else could SD have done to win the game?
HTF is giving up 39 points a "flawless game"? Fine, you don't want to pin the last 8 points on them? Well then HTF is giving up 31 points a "flawless game"? This is why this topic has gotten so out of hand, posts like this are completely irrational.
 
If SD stops them on fourth down or the conversion, would this be as big a deal?
No, but that's not the point. The game should never have gotten to where San Diego had to make such a play. Regardless, I agree that this overreaction-bordering-on-hysteria to Hoculi is crazy. He had a premature/inadvertant whistle, which is so impulsive that to even call it a judgment call flatters it with premeditation it didn't have. We've seen referees over the years get rules wrong, but that's not what happened here.

Moreover, Hoculi immediately apologized and took ownership of the mistake, both over the PA system as well as to Norv Turner personally, and then proceeded to follow the rulebook as he should in followup to the play. #### happens.

I have to also say that it was a bit funny watching Norv Turner, who was understandably upset by this mistake, get incensed about how Hoculi's mistake and apology were "not acceptable" given his less-than-stellar coaching career. You know what, Norv? 49-59-1 is not acceptable.
What should he have said? Norv needs to get away from the nice-guy image and use this game as a rallying cry for his team, and that was the best way to go about it. Coaches use the "us against them" mentality all the time, so I find nothing wrong here.I bolded the part about his record because you didn't mention that he was also coaching some truly disgusting teams to compile that record. Now he's got a team with talent, and he's done a good job.

Bill Belichick started his career 41-55.
Bill Belichick was also coaching a 3-0 team that he'd built from scratch and improved continuously, under the cheapskate Art Modell, only to have the rug pulled from under him when the move to Baltimore was announced in 1995. I know the Hoodie, the Hoodie is a good friend of mine, and Norv Turner is no Hoodie.
That's cool, there's no shame in not being one of the greatest coaches of all-time.I'm not suggesting Norv is anywhere near BB's class. But to judge him on his days in Washington and Oakland isn't fair, just as it wouldn't have been fair to BB after his stint in Cleveland. Belichick had to deal with a cheapskate owner, while Norv had to deal with possibly the two most meddlesome owners in pro football history. BB got to New England where he had a great owner, great management, outstanding talent, and used his own expertise to turn them into a dynasty.

I'm just sayin, Norv could end up carving out a nice coaching career for himself over the next 5 years or so with this team. He took them to the AFC Championship game in his first year with the team, so he's off to a nice start at least.

Anyway this has totally sidetracked the thread. Carry on, everyone.

 

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