GM Jon Robinson Fired In Tennessee (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

A cross-posting from the Philly thread. Thought it might be interesting to post as a separate topic.

Can't believe they did that. Rumor has it was due to A.J. Brown's performance against the Titans. Here are my initial thoughts:

I think they ****ed up because of that one decision. We'll never get the whole story, of course, but that seems awfully rash, unless letting Brown go was that rash a move by Robinson. If he bucked management and let him walk, then I get it, but his job is to pay guys to make a complete team. And the kind of team that they want, too. What if Burks stays in the game and goes 5-100-2 instead of Epps, who should have been ejected, running his helmet into Burks's? Would Robinson have looked stupid then?

Bad call by the Titans. That's the sign of a pissed off owner just coming off of a loss where his pet project got overturned. Bad owner. Bad management.

News flash - -the Eagles were beating the Titans without Brown, and the Titans management, GM, and coaches constructed their team to where they didn't let Brown do anything (relatively speaking) in their offense, anyway, so what are they pissed about?

It's like management said, "We had this great guy who could solve cold fusion so we sent him down to construction where he was the foreman for us to build a better ant farm. You're fired from running the ant farm!"

 

[Long Ball Larry]

See Here for discussion

 

[rockaction]

Interesting perspectives. I didn't know Vrabel was so well thought of and that he'd publicly clashed with the GM. I do not agree that trading Brown away was necessarily a bad move. The bad move might be in the overall team construction, but trading a guy you were asking to block (a lot) or face double teams speaks more to how you're valuing that position as an organization and your organizational philosophy.

Brown can be replaced in that system, however outstanding he may be at certain aspects of the game. Burks, given time, looks like he's on that path. It's the system that seems to be the problem, and it's usually more than the GM instituting the system there.

But this seems to be about Brown and not the GM's competency in other respects.

 

[Capella]

I don’t know man, trading AJ Brown pretty much solely for a guy who almost certainly will never be as good as AJ Brown is fireable in my book.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Odd firing. It’s a decent team. Better than i’d expected. They’ve had some injuries on defense & losing Long to the hammy isn’t gonna help, but I didn’t think he should be fired.

Maybe something revealing will come out.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don’t know man, trading AJ Brown pretty much solely for a guy who almost certainly will never be as good as AJ Brown is fireable in my book.

That’s true I guess. What all did they turn him into though? Burks, and….saved some $?

 

[Capella]

I don’t know man, trading AJ Brown pretty much solely for a guy who almost certainly will never be as good as AJ Brown is fireable in my book.

That’s true I guess. What all did they turn him into though? Burks, and….saved some $?

That’s it. Never made sense. He’s a real stud.

 

[Bri]

I would not be surprised if he's signed ASAP by another team. He's a super good guy that's widely respected.
Before cockiness he was darn good. He's relatively young and mismanaged a cap and draft. Teams have scouting departments and cap gurus so this won't deter them at all.

Everyone returns to New England.
What's Tampa doing after Brady? Because he was adored there as an assistant GM.

The Titans will pay him for a few years still so there's no real rush for him.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Power play between Vrabel and Robinson. Nothing more.

 

[Bri]

This move certainly makes you wonder about Vrabel to Ohio State rumors. Did Amy meet with him after the reports? Did she ask what he needed to stay? Needed to be successful?

It's not that hard to find a guy to buy the groceries but it is to find a coach of the year that's young and always has a winning record.

 

[Bri]

Mularkey was fired after winning. It's really kind of interesting that simply winning isn't the bar with owner Amy Adams Strunk.

 

[rockaction]

I've never been sold on Vrabel as a coach, but perhaps it's the GMs desired style of play I disliked, not the coach's application of it. I could be really wrong, like I said. It depends. Is the GM reflecting the organizational philosophy or is he determining it?

Makes a difference, if you ask me.

 

[rockaction]

Because it's not too hard to find a coach who likes coaching big guys and doesn't really use sophisticated analytic philosophy. Likes to run the football with big lines. That's like half the stagnant football universe.

 

[fatness]

See Here for discussion

Thanks for that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Because it's not too hard to find a coach who likes coaching big guys and doesn't really use sophisticated analytic philosophy. Likes to run the football with big lines. That's like half the stagnant football universe.

I’m a little ashamed to admit that I really like Vrabel’s style when it’s working. It’s fun to watch, old school smashmouth football.

But when it’s not working it’s terrible & boring.

 

[fatness]

I don’t know man, trading AJ Brown pretty much solely for a guy who almost certainly will never be as good as AJ Brown is fireable in my book.

That’s true I guess. What all did they turn him into though? Burks, and….saved some $?

That’s it. Never made sense. He’s a real stud.

Few people realized he was a stud, and under-used in Tennessee.

 

[flapgreen]

I'm from Nashville but not a Titans fan, but I love their owner and coach. This was a bold move that the majority of NFL ownership wouldn't have made, but it was necessary.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Serious question I asked in another thread, how many NFL GMs have been fired while still in first place in their division?

 

[rockaction]

Serious question I asked in another thread, how many NFL GMs have been fired while still in first place in their division?

It was discussed somewhere today. (I'm sorry, I can't remember where. Twitter, I think.) Bill Polian was essentially fired as the GM of the Bills while going to a Super Bowl. But people have had trouble remembering in-season firings of GMs at successful teams, though the Astros came up as somebody firing their GM after winning the WS, which to me is just almost insane. There had better be good reason for that, IMO.

 

[rockaction]

This was a bold move that the majority of NFL ownership wouldn't have made, but it was necessary

How so and why?

 

[rockaction]

But when it’s not working it’s terrible & boring.

And with salary caps and the draft, it's tough to keep up the ethic of smashmouth football. You have to start paying guys their worth, and that means investing in OL cohesiveness and bad running back contracts and the like. I'd argue you can put together less smashmouth teams for cheaper due to the importance of the running back alone. Belichick gave us the blueprint for RBBC to the extreme (if he used the free agent windfalls from that wisely at WR, the Pats would still be in great position in the AFC) and other schemes have shown (the wide zone running scheme) that you can get it done with guys not quite as big or with heavy draft capital at OL and RB.

This is all speculation of course, but it just seems that way. I don't know a ton about football, but I can sense the prevailing winds here, I think.

 

[rockaction]

Few people realized he was a stud, and under-used in Tennessee.

I'll admit I didn't. I knew he was very, very good and very under-used because I subscribe(d) to Reception Perception and read stupid PFF articles about Fantasy Points Over Expectancy and listen to Matt Waldman and stuff like that, but I always took Brown's evaluation with a grain of salt. I thought it was a bit of fantasy wish fulfillment coming to real life and I thought he was less studly than others just from watching Tennessee in the moments I got to watch them. I just figured he was a bigger receiver that wouldn't necessarily win deep (not that he would have less catches over twenty yards, but less catches with twenty air yards) because they had him do not so much of that in Tennessee unless they were fairly desperate in the game and he didn't totally burn the forty. But I was wrong. He would have ranked top five in deep ball categories if one looked closely enough, apparently. It's just sort of fascinating, really. Perception vs. reality.

But your point is certainly taken. Uber-stud is more like it now, and he's having a year like few others have ever had, just from casually watching it.

 

[Bri]

Schefter reporting that JRob would leave Amy (owner) out of conversations if he assumed Vrabel would disagree with him.

Now it's come out-
AJB was a conversation the two had and agreed NOT to trade him. Draft day trade, saw Vrabel's reaction, Amy asked and JRob said he took initiative, his call.
Julio trade came after at least two conversations NOT at Titans facility. One of which included former staff members (Arthur? Pees?) and they both agreed not to sign Julio unless he would redo his contract. Next meeting he wouldn't redo his contract and Vrabel stayed same while JRob wanted him.

 

[Bri]

I don’t know man, trading AJ Brown pretty much solely for a guy who almost certainly will never be as good as AJ Brown is fireable in my book.

That’s true I guess. What all did they turn him into though? Burks, and….saved some $?

That’s it. Never made sense. He’s a real stud.

Few people realized he was a stud, and under-used in Tennessee.

No. He's always been close. He gets shut down by top CBs. Stars can overcome.
It can be real frustrating when the playoffs come and top defenses are matched up.

Look at his stats each year. There's always some duds

 

[Buckna]

I don’t know man, trading AJ Brown pretty much solely for a guy who almost certainly will never be as good as AJ Brown is fireable in my book.

That’s true I guess. What all did they turn him into though? Burks, and….saved some $?

That’s it. Never made sense. He’s a real stud.

Few people realized he was a stud, and under-used in Tennessee.

No. He's always been close. He gets shut down by top CBs. Stars can overcome.
It can be real frustrating when the playoffs come and top defenses are matched up.

Look at his stats each year. There's always some duds

Not sure where this narrative that few people realized he was good comes from. He’s been highly valued since he was drafted. Biggest knocks were as Bri said, consistency, but he also has had issues staying healthy until this year. Plus TENN offense is run heavy, so many blamed that inconsistency on their offensive philosophy.

Burks has looked good when healthy so far and he costs 14MM over 4 years vs $100MM over 4 years for Brown. That’s not “…saved some $” that’s a significant chunk of cap space.

There’s certainly some divergent roster philosophies in the NFL right now, some are willing to trade for elite WR’s plus pay them big $, others are willing to trade them away for draft assets. Miami, Philly, and LVR are making out well on their trades so far but adding an elite WR should make an immediate impact. Drafting rookies takes a lot longer to evaluate and you better hit on those picks.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The big issue is Tennessee played in the 2019/2020 AFCC vs the Chiefs
Titans were up 10-0 and 17-7 in the 2nd Q
They trailed 21-17 going into the 4th Q, that's painfully close to making a Super Bowl
Here we are about 3 years later and the team has not taken the steps to advance or even compete in another one.
Maybe that is the QB play but QBs tend to look better with elite weapons around them.

AJ Brown opening a can of whoopass on his former team was just the final nail in the coffin
Vrabel would be unemployed for all of 2 seconds if the Titans had opted to part with him vs the GM
Robinson will be quickly brought in somewhere else, many teams would kill for the success the Titans have displayed and achieved over Vrabel's run so far.
Vrabel is Auto-2nd Job as a Head Coach and nobody can say retread with what he's done so far
Add in Ryan Tannehill as his QB most of the way and it's a miracle they've done this well.

 

[-OZ-]

A cross-posting from the Philly thread. Thought it might be interesting to post as a separate topic.

Can't believe they did that. Rumor has it was due to A.J. Brown's performance against the Titans. Here are my initial thoughts:

I think they ****ed up because of that one decision. We'll never get the whole story, of course, but that seems awfully rash, unless letting Brown go was that rash a move by Robinson. If he bucked management and let him walk, then I get it, but his job is to pay guys to make a complete team. And the kind of team that they want, too. What if Burks stays in the game and goes 5-100-2 instead of Epps, who should have been ejected, running his helmet into Burks's? Would Robinson have looked stupid then?

Bad call by the Titans. That's the sign of a pissed off owner just coming off of a loss where his pet project got overturned. Bad owner. Bad management.

News flash - -the Eagles were beating the Titans without Brown, and the Titans management, GM, and coaches constructed their team to where they didn't let Brown do anything (relatively speaking) in their offense, anyway, so what are they pissed about?

It's like management said, "We had this great guy who could solve cold fusion so we sent him down to construction where he was the foreman for us to build a better ant farm. You're fired from running the ant farm!"

suffice it to say I disagree with everything you wrote here.

Vrabel is a top 5 coach. JRob is probably a decent GM but not above average.

 

[-OZ-]

The big issue is Tennessee played in the 2019/2020 AFCC vs the Chiefs
Titans were up 10-0 and 17-7 in the 2nd Q
They trailed 21-17 going into the 4th Q, that's painfully close to making a Super Bowl
Here we are about 3 years later and the team has not taken the steps to advance or even compete in another one.
Maybe that is the QB play but QBs tend to look better with elite weapons around them.

AJ Brown opening a can of whoopass on his former team was just the final nail in the coffin
Vrabel would be unemployed for all of 2 seconds if the Titans had opted to part with him vs the GM
Robinson will be quickly brought in somewhere else, many teams would kill for the success the Titans have displayed and achieved over Vrabel's run so far.
Vrabel is Auto-2nd Job as a Head Coach and nobody can say retread with what he's done so far
Add in Ryan Tannehill as his QB most of the way and it's a miracle they've done this well.

You think it would take a whole 2 seconds?
It might take that long for him to decide whether he likes LA, Columbus, or Denver.

 

[Anarchy99]

As a Pats fan, I would LOVE if Robinson came back to New England. He was head of college scouting for 4 or 5 years. Picks made when he was around included Jarod Mayo, Matthew Slater, Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer, Jullian Edelman, Devin McCourty, Gronk, Aaron Hernandez, Nate Solder, Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley, Marcus Cannon, Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower, Jamie Collins, and Logan Ryan. And we all know how poorly NE has drafted since then. The problem is, Robinson was a GM in TEN and NE would be very unlikely to bring him back at that title. Maybe he would consider it if he was Director of Player Personnel.

 

[Buckna]

Too many teams out there that need a GM, he’ll land somewhere.

Not sure I agree that Brown having a big game against his former team matters much, TENN was already dead last in pass defense coming into the game. The ENTIRE Eagles team put a smack down on TENN. Titans seem very much like the Texans a few years ago, a solid but flawed, possibly mediocre team that keeps winning the AFC South because it’s one of the worst divisions in football.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

AJ Brown opening a can of whoopass on his former team was just the final nail in the coffin

Too many teams out there that need a GM, he’ll land somewhere.

Not sure I agree that Brown having a big game against his former team matters much, TENN was already dead last in pass defense coming into the game. The ENTIRE Eagles team put a smack down on TENN. Titans seem very much like the Texans a few years ago, a solid but flawed, possibly mediocre team that keeps winning the AFC South because it’s one of the worst divisions in football.

Joe Rexrode on the Athletic Football Show today described the Brown situation as the final nail in the coffin. There were other things that ownership didn't like about Robinson, like deliberately leaving Vrabel out of discussions if he thought there would be disagreement. The Brown deal is looking like a mistake right now and just seemed to solidify the thoughts that ownership already was having.

 

[JetMaxx]

I also remember hearing regarding the AJB trade that it was not only a surprise to those in the Titans organization but to just about the entire rest of the NFL. JRob didn’t shop him to get top value, probably because he knew if he did, it would get back to the owner and the HC. You can’t have that level of dysfunction

 

[Insein]

Serious question I asked in another thread, how many NFL GMs have been fired while still in first place in their division?

It was discussed somewhere today. (I'm sorry, I can't remember where. Twitter, I think.) Bill Polian was essentially fired as the GM of the Bills while going to a Super Bowl. But people have had trouble remembering in-season firings of GMs at successful teams, though the Astros came up as somebody firing their GM after winning the WS, which to me is just almost insane. There had better be good reason for that, IMO.

I mean the Astros fired their GM because they got caught cheating. If they never got caught, he'd still be there.

 

[Bri]

I also remember hearing regarding the AJB trade that it was not only a surprise to those in the Titans organization but to just about the entire rest of the NFL. JRob didn’t shop him to get top value, probably because he knew if he did, it would get back to the owner and the HC. You can’t have that level of dysfunction

Nah, AJB was tweeting all about his displeasure
It was known

 

[Buckna]

I also remember hearing regarding the AJB trade that it was not only a surprise to those in the Titans organization but to just about the entire rest of the NFL. JRob didn’t shop him to get top value, probably because he knew if he did, it would get back to the owner and the HC. You can’t have that level of dysfunction

Nah, AJB was tweeting all about his displeasure
It was known

Yeah once again, lots of rumors ahead of the draft he would be traded. He was pretty public about contract negotiations not going well with the Titans.

 

[rockaction]

I mean the Astros fired their GM because they got caught cheating. If they never got caught, he'd still be there.

No, they just fired their current one. 2022.

 

[rockaction]

Joe Rexrode on the Athletic Football Show today described the Brown situation as the final nail in the coffin. There were other things that ownership didn't like about Robinson, like deliberately leaving Vrabel out of discussions if he thought there would be disagreement. The Brown deal is looking like a mistake right now and just seemed to solidify the thoughts that ownership already was having.

See, that's very different and really dysfunctional.

 

[Boston]

From the outside this appears to be a good old-fashioned power struggle that Vrabel won...anyone who follows the Pats knows he is a very large personality...besides being one of the better players for the team during his New England career he was also one of their leaders who was known for tweaking BB at times (i.e. he has big b*lls)...my guess is now that he has established his coaching credibility (I think he is one of the best in the NFL) he wanted a bigger voice in personnel or as Parcells would say "buying the groceries"...this is not unusual for high-end coaches...Robinson was probably threatened by this, and the relationship deteriorated so one of them had to go and it was Robinson because Vrabel is more valuable...Robinson did a solid job there and he will land somewhere else and Vrabel will probably end up with a GM that he wants kind of like Shanny and Lynch in San Fran.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Serious question I asked in another thread, how many NFL GMs have been fired while still in first place in their division?

It was discussed somewhere today. (I'm sorry, I can't remember where. Twitter, I think.) Bill Polian was essentially fired as the GM of the Bills while going to a Super Bowl. But people have had trouble remembering in-season firings of GMs at successful teams, though the Astros came up as somebody firing their GM after winning the WS, which to me is just almost insane. There had better be good reason for that, IMO.

I mean the Astros fired their GM because they got caught cheating. If they never got caught, he'd still be there.

I think he means this off-season

 

[rockaction]

I think he means this off-season

Did they get caught again or something? I meant that the Astros just fired their GM after this year. They'd fired the other one a while ago. This one was just because the Astros believed that there were unanswered questions and thought the current one lacked the answers.

Am I being dense here or am I missing part of the story? You're usually not wrong, so I'll defer to you.

Cheating scandal after 2017 - GM fired
After winning WS in 2022 - GM just plain fired.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I think he means this off-season

Did they get caught again or something? I meant that the Astros just fired their GM after this year. They'd fired the other one a while ago. This one was just because the Astros believed that there were unanswered questions and thought the current one lacked the answers.

Am I being dense here or am I missing part of the story? You're usually not wrong, so I'll defer to you.

Cheating scandal after 2017 - GM fired
After winning WS in 2022 - GM just plain fired.

Yeah, I was responding to insein, who seemed to think you meant luhnow, so I was clarifying that they fired their gm this off-season also, which is what I assumed you meant.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I think it was also because the Astros owner is kind of a nut

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, I was responding to insein, who seemed to think you meant luhnow, so I was clarifying that they fired their gm this off-season also, which is what I assumed you meant.

Ah, I missed that Insein was the last guy quoted and that "he" was me. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Insein]

I mean the Astros fired their GM because they got caught cheating. If they never got caught, he'd still be there.

No, they just fired their current one. 2022.

Oh. Well that is weird then.

 

[themeistersinger]

Serious question I asked in another thread, how many NFL GMs have been fired while still in first place in their division?

Bill Polian was fired by Ralph Wilson during the Bills third Super Bowl run (the year they lost to Dallas). Ralph agreed to let Polian stay until the end of the season, as Polian told Ralph it would be better for Polian's family. So nothing was announced or even hinted at until after the Super Bowl loss. I believe the story was that Polian talked to Wilson in a way he didn't appreciate.

 

[massraider]

I am of the mind that this seems early in the career for Vrabel to be in Parcells range of clout.

But: Trading AJ Brown, without having the HC on board, I really don't see how anyone can defend that move. Even if it is his right to do it, even if it winds up being the right move, you need everyone on board. Not for every move, but for trading a top 5 WR? Yeah, you need everyone on board.