mr roboto
Footballguy
Damnit.
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GM's thread about nothing (49 Viewers)
- Thread starter General Malaise
- Start date
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
-fish-
Footballguy
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Why are you so mean?BURNFrosty's motherWhose?Deaths via Zooks-Warts: ZEROTotal earthquake deaths in the US since 1965: Just over 200
1996 Blizzard: 154 deaths
1993 Blizzard: 318 deaths
2011 Joplin tornado: 162
Katrina: 1800 deaths.
Bizzards/tornados/earthquakes will result in possible death and property destruction. Sex with me will result in no deaths and minimal propert destruction and crying.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Whose crying will it lead to? That's the proper use.Whose what?:smoo:Whose?Deaths via Zooks-Warts: ZEROTotal earthquake deaths in the US since 1965: Just over 200
1996 Blizzard: 154 deaths
1993 Blizzard: 318 deaths
2011 Joplin tornado: 162
Katrina: 1800 deaths.
Bizzards/tornados/earthquakes will result in possible death and property destruction. Sex with me will result in no deaths and minimal propert destruction and crying.
Guster
Footballguy
Thorn
Footballguy
Abraham
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Have any of you ever worked for the founder of a fast growing company? I am experiencing frustration because even though we are growing quickly, he seems to constantly be concerned about money. We have over one year cash reserves, no debt, and our sales projected for this year should easily cover expenses. Yet he seems to be unwilling to make basic investments in staffing, larger office space, and technology.
I am the sales guy, and we are doing very well in that department. Our operations guy is working far too many hours, and is close to being burnt out. He and I both agree that on the operations side, there needs to be more investment. Outside of new client sales, we have an ongoing revenue stream that is growing every month. At current levels of growth, our recurring revenue streams should cover expenses soon after the next 12 months. I just don't get why he wouldn't have the confidence to make some expenditures that would allow us to service the new accounts we are bringing in.
I'm vested in the company to a small degree, and don't really feel like leaving because I have an opportunity here. The main concern we have at the staff level is that we don't know if he can really go from founding innovator to managing a corporation. I am not necessarily skilled to step in to a roll of directly managing the company, and should probably stay in sales and development. Even our largest investor believes that we need to add infrastructure at the managerial level, yet the founder seems to be in disagreement with this.
The only bright spot is that he wants to continue to innovate in different product categories and distribution channels, and the investor myself and the operations guy have all told him that in order to do that, we need more help and support in the existing business channel.
The new products and innovations he is talking about are amazing. This guy has a knack for seeing what others don't and creating technologies and partnerships that allow for expanded business opportunity. He just doesn't seem to want to capitalize on the opportunity once he builds it, and is not willing to give up operational control to somebody else to follow through with the new business models that he creates.
If other companies in our industry knew what we were accomplishing with the lack of infrastructure and support, they would be pretty surprised. But were at the breaking point.
Right now, the big question is how do we lead upwards and basically force his hand to do what needs to be done so that he can move on to other opportunities. The other opportunities would still be within the same brand, and most likely myself and the other staff members would be asked to assist with this. We are very close to saying that we will not take on additional responsibilities until he makes the investments necessary to allow us to manage the existing business model without him. Having a conversation could be potentially explosive.
He is a very good person, cares greatly about the relationships he has within his company and with our existing clients, and genuinely wants to do the right thing. He's just simply an innovator, and not a manager.
I am the sales guy, and we are doing very well in that department. Our operations guy is working far too many hours, and is close to being burnt out. He and I both agree that on the operations side, there needs to be more investment. Outside of new client sales, we have an ongoing revenue stream that is growing every month. At current levels of growth, our recurring revenue streams should cover expenses soon after the next 12 months. I just don't get why he wouldn't have the confidence to make some expenditures that would allow us to service the new accounts we are bringing in.
I'm vested in the company to a small degree, and don't really feel like leaving because I have an opportunity here. The main concern we have at the staff level is that we don't know if he can really go from founding innovator to managing a corporation. I am not necessarily skilled to step in to a roll of directly managing the company, and should probably stay in sales and development. Even our largest investor believes that we need to add infrastructure at the managerial level, yet the founder seems to be in disagreement with this.
The only bright spot is that he wants to continue to innovate in different product categories and distribution channels, and the investor myself and the operations guy have all told him that in order to do that, we need more help and support in the existing business channel.
The new products and innovations he is talking about are amazing. This guy has a knack for seeing what others don't and creating technologies and partnerships that allow for expanded business opportunity. He just doesn't seem to want to capitalize on the opportunity once he builds it, and is not willing to give up operational control to somebody else to follow through with the new business models that he creates.
If other companies in our industry knew what we were accomplishing with the lack of infrastructure and support, they would be pretty surprised. But were at the breaking point.
Right now, the big question is how do we lead upwards and basically force his hand to do what needs to be done so that he can move on to other opportunities. The other opportunities would still be within the same brand, and most likely myself and the other staff members would be asked to assist with this. We are very close to saying that we will not take on additional responsibilities until he makes the investments necessary to allow us to manage the existing business model without him. Having a conversation could be potentially explosive.
He is a very good person, cares greatly about the relationships he has within his company and with our existing clients, and genuinely wants to do the right thing. He's just simply an innovator, and not a manager.
Gadzooks
Footballguy
Not really sure. However, I have been intrigued about your mother ever since you told that story about how she caught your Dad wearing your wife's thong in a garage. Or something to that effect.Why are you so mean?BURNFrosty's motherWhose?Deaths via Zooks-Warts: ZEROTotal earthquake deaths in the US since 1965: Just over 200
1996 Blizzard: 154 deaths
1993 Blizzard: 318 deaths
2011 Joplin tornado: 162
Katrina: 1800 deaths.
Bizzards/tornados/earthquakes will result in possible death and property destruction. Sex with me will result in no deaths and minimal propert destruction and crying.
Abraham
Footballguy
Yes. Will respond at length later.
TL;DR response: the founder is right to not spend any of the money the company is earned.
Abraham
Footballguy
Roboto>>
Companies die for one reason and one reason alone: they run out of money. They can run out of money for the following reasons:
1. No customers so no revenue, burn through cash on hand.
2. Spending exceeds revenue, burn through cash reserves.
3. Investors/founders don't see things turning around and decide to wind down and recoup what money is left.
The business mission of any business is: Do not run out of money. And regardless of your feelings for infrastructure improvements and more employees, the surest way to run out of money is to spend more of it. Ramping up spending when VC cash is at stake is a far cry different than a bootstrapped S/U looking to fund it's own growth. Bill Gates famously kept two years of OPEX in the bank at all times as MS was growing and would lay people off rather than dip in to the two year fund.
IT seems your eagerness for reinvestment is twofold: first, to ease the burden on the current workforce and, second, to grow faster. With regard to point One, tough ####. That's life in a startup. To the second point, as a very minor stakeholder your input on growth doesn't matter. At the moment I am the sales maker for a small company that desperately needs to invest in the same things you mentioned to grow. But we don't have the cash and the owner won't leverage our AR or any assets to make it happen. My opinion doesn't matter- if I don't like his decision I can go work elsewhere. It isn't my money or my neck on the line.
I've been on the side where we showed traction and invested in extra resources. People, software, machines, etc. My mistakes don't necessarily apply here except to say that working a little (or a lot) harder day by day doesn't seem so bad when you know your paycheck isn't ever going to bounce.
ETA: Jason Fried's philosophy is to not hire anyone new until there literally is not anyone in the office with enough time and brainpower to handle the task needing doing.
ETA: The best way to get him to reinvest is to bring in an outsize customer/contract that can't be accomplished without more resources. For example, when I onboard two or three new clients with 10 users each month, our owner will "get it figured out" and it pisses me off. When I bring on one new client with 60 users he says, "oh ####" and hires more technical help.
Companies die for one reason and one reason alone: they run out of money. They can run out of money for the following reasons:
1. No customers so no revenue, burn through cash on hand.
2. Spending exceeds revenue, burn through cash reserves.
3. Investors/founders don't see things turning around and decide to wind down and recoup what money is left.
The business mission of any business is: Do not run out of money. And regardless of your feelings for infrastructure improvements and more employees, the surest way to run out of money is to spend more of it. Ramping up spending when VC cash is at stake is a far cry different than a bootstrapped S/U looking to fund it's own growth. Bill Gates famously kept two years of OPEX in the bank at all times as MS was growing and would lay people off rather than dip in to the two year fund.
IT seems your eagerness for reinvestment is twofold: first, to ease the burden on the current workforce and, second, to grow faster. With regard to point One, tough ####. That's life in a startup. To the second point, as a very minor stakeholder your input on growth doesn't matter. At the moment I am the sales maker for a small company that desperately needs to invest in the same things you mentioned to grow. But we don't have the cash and the owner won't leverage our AR or any assets to make it happen. My opinion doesn't matter- if I don't like his decision I can go work elsewhere. It isn't my money or my neck on the line.
I've been on the side where we showed traction and invested in extra resources. People, software, machines, etc. My mistakes don't necessarily apply here except to say that working a little (or a lot) harder day by day doesn't seem so bad when you know your paycheck isn't ever going to bounce.
ETA: Jason Fried's philosophy is to not hire anyone new until there literally is not anyone in the office with enough time and brainpower to handle the task needing doing.
ETA: The best way to get him to reinvest is to bring in an outsize customer/contract that can't be accomplished without more resources. For example, when I onboard two or three new clients with 10 users each month, our owner will "get it figured out" and it pisses me off. When I bring on one new client with 60 users he says, "oh ####" and hires more technical help.
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Great posting.
kevzilla
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Very few people take an appropriately strong bootsandpants stand these days. Good on you.
mr roboto
Footballguy
To your first ETA: that ship is quickly sailing. Things are falling through the cracks.
I get what you are saying, I really do. We have no debt, he still retains about 75% of the ownership, and the investor we do have is a 20 year VC veteran who is investing personally because he believes in the brand.
I am not advocating that we burn through capital on infrastructure when we don't have the business, but between projected sales which come with upfront revenue, and the existing revenue streams that come from ongoing service revenue, we will exceed expenditures this year in cash coming in but probably 200%. I feel like I'm writing checks to new clients about service that we simply won't be able to cash without at least a small investment. All I'm talking about is renting a larger office which would be $1500 per month more, and hiring one full-time employee at about $3500 a month.
At some point, don't employees feel that the founder or ownership simply doesn't believe that the business can work? Proof of concept and proof of marketability is complete, we are entering a proof of execution that I don't know we're ready for.
I get what you are saying, I really do. We have no debt, he still retains about 75% of the ownership, and the investor we do have is a 20 year VC veteran who is investing personally because he believes in the brand.
I am not advocating that we burn through capital on infrastructure when we don't have the business, but between projected sales which come with upfront revenue, and the existing revenue streams that come from ongoing service revenue, we will exceed expenditures this year in cash coming in but probably 200%. I feel like I'm writing checks to new clients about service that we simply won't be able to cash without at least a small investment. All I'm talking about is renting a larger office which would be $1500 per month more, and hiring one full-time employee at about $3500 a month.
At some point, don't employees feel that the founder or ownership simply doesn't believe that the business can work? Proof of concept and proof of marketability is complete, we are entering a proof of execution that I don't know we're ready for.
krista4
Footballguy
I don't think you can hijack a thread about nothing (or everything). Sorry for your situation; sounds like a #####.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Good point.
Thorn
Footballguy
Work
So your GB thorn has decided to pull the trigger and start his own law firm with two other partners. I wasn't necessarily in the market for a change, but an excellent opportunity to get in as a founding (read: equal) partner made it an offer I couldn't refuse, especially once I realized:
1. It would be approximately 12 more years before I reached full partner here, and I'm not young.
2. My clients are mine and not shared, so I expect 90% of them to come with me.
3. I would have complete control over staffing and my income.
My only regret is that I didn't come up with the flaming sledgehammer shtick first.
1. It would be approximately 12 more years before I reached full partner here, and I'm not young.
2. My clients are mine and not shared, so I expect 90% of them to come with me.
3. I would have complete control over staffing and my income.
My only regret is that I didn't come up with the flaming sledgehammer shtick first.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Including the founder, 3.5. The .5 is for basic bookkeeping. The founder is still involved in client service. He misses calls, fails at deadlines, and it's mostly because he's too busy (and partly because he isn't organized). I can't handle all the leads because I'm still 30-40% on launch of new clients. I could sell more if I had a .5 time basic assistant to manage repetitive tasks related to supporting launch. Probably 100k or more over the course of the year. Ops guy is still building out internal manuals that should have existed years ago, so he's in the office all day Sunday just trying to put that in place.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
2014 is a big year for jobs, kids, and change in here. I like it.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
KickassWhen you say partner, you're not talking about slamming dudes are you?
Gadzooks
Footballguy
Thorn
Footballguy
KickassWhen you say partner, you're not talking about slamming dudes are you?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Congrats to Thorn and thank you, Tecumseh. She is spectacular.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
kevzilla
Footballguy
Geico advertises heavily, you'll see it soon enough. Krista might need a new bookmark.
kevzilla
Footballguy
Abraham
Footballguy
Based solely on what you've posted, I think you are confusing short term pain with long term resolution. Some assistants and extra people may help smooth things over, but what your organization needs is "organization". You don't need someone to ease the PMs burden so he can write overdue Manuels. Rather, he needs to find a way to complete the overdue Manuals so that they are finished and useful to the activity of the business. Adding more people just means a larger army of disorganized costs. On the other hand, adding advanced tools like a calendar and step by step workflows will ease the burden considerably. Resources take money and you have that. Processes and systems take time, which you don't think you have. The reality is that at some point you have to add some structure and it's easier to do now than when you have a doZen different workers. Adding head count still means you have a disorganized boss and you are spending money to cover that up. Habing processes is a cost free way to fix that permanently.
bentley
Footballguy
Hey Jimtanners. Good stuff in here today.
Bogeyjob > Congrats.
Thorn > Sounds like a badass opportunity.
Roboto > My best GB started a company and business went gangbusters. Took on investors, burned through some capital, and then got kicked out of his own company on his ### once they got dissatisfied. From what Abe posted, that seems like a pretty common occurrence. I'm sure your guy is super paranoid about an outcome like that.
Bogeyjob > Congrats.
Thorn > Sounds like a badass opportunity.
Roboto > My best GB started a company and business went gangbusters. Took on investors, burned through some capital, and then got kicked out of his own company on his ### once they got dissatisfied. From what Abe posted, that seems like a pretty common occurrence. I'm sure your guy is super paranoid about an outcome like that.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Wow, this song has been linked in here twice in the past week. I linked it too, but I have memory why.
I think Uruk was involved
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
I can guarantee I will never be ousted from my company.
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