God in the old testament (1 Viewer)

[IvanKaramazov]

Otis, it is difficult to understand why God does what He does. However, as humans, we need to trust in Him and Jesus. We all try to be in charge but the facts we are not, He is. Trust in Him.

I bet a lot of Nazi's said that about Hitler. Although to be fair, compared to the stuff on that list that Hitler guy was pretty nice.

Wow. Zero to Hitler in just three posts. Impressive.

 

[zoonation]

How did God address them in Job. Serious question.

First God kills all of Job's children. Then He gives Job leprosy. Then he shouts at Job, "Where we're you when I created the world?" and Job says, "Whatever, Lord, I still believe in you." so God gives him new kids to replace the old ones.

I believe God did not do it, he allowed Satan to.

I fail to see how that makes it any better.

If the God of the Old Testament exists, He knows everything that happens, or will happen. He is responsible for everything that happens. He created Satan and everything Satan does serves the will of God.

You assume much. So no free will? What's the point of anything then?

I don't know. Frankly, I have never understood how the notion of of an omnipotent God meshes with the idea of free will. I have asked religious people throughout my life to explain it to me and I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

Don't know what you're looking for but I believe God has the (really) long term perspective. Some people suffering today might make the world a better place later. I don't know, don't pretend to know and don't need to know.

I also don't believe in a literal interpretation of the Old Testament, so take that FWIW.

What an awful, awful proposition. The God you describe is morally wicked and not worthy of worship.I love the head in the sand approach the worshippers take in here too...I know it reads like genocide, in its purest form, but I'm not meant to use rational thought when applying my everyday morality to the creator. I'm not meant to understand!!!!

Of course, saying such things has no normative meaning, as socrates points out in the Euthyphro.

 

[matuski]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

 

[matuski]

I think it is funny how someone thinks these arguments are new or something when God addressed them in the Bible thousands of years ago in the book of Job.

If the Bible is real, then nothing surprises Him and man's mocking, scoffing and ranting probably doesn't change anything.

Calling God names like psychopath and childish is pointless and foolish.

While these types of rants are not surprising, I still find them saddening.

If man's mocking, scoffing, and ranting doesn't change anything... how would man's prayer and worship change anything?

Logic can only bite the religious argument in the ###.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Otis... all that stuff is in the Old Testament.

After ritually sacrificing his child HE became kinder and gentler.

 

[jon_mx]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

 

[Christo]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

If you're looking at raw numbers. There are a hell of a lot more teachers and family members in the world than priests. But I bet the likelihood flips if we look at a random priest as compared to a random teacher or family member.

 

[matuski]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

That is one way to spin it... now tell us the relative likelihood among teachers, family members, and priests.

 

[jon_mx]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

That is one way to spin it... now tell us the relative likelihood among teachers, family members, and priests.

My guess:

1. Family Members

2. Friends

3. Teachers

4. Priests

But I am driving

 

[matuski]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

That is one way to spin it... now tell us the relative likelihood among teachers, family members, and priests.

My guess:

1. Family Members

2. Friends

3. Teachers

4. Priests

But I am driving

Was your previous statement a guess?

I assumed you had data of some sort.

eta - You feel a kid is safer alone in a room with a catholic priest than his/her own family?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Im not deeply religious nor a biblical scholar by any means. I guess I just like to think of the big guy as a loving creator who gave us the gift of life. Its up to each of us to make the most of that gift.

So you reject the actively involved god of the Old Testament? Or, maybe a modern believer in Marcionism?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Maybe there are more important things than what happens on this fallen planet.

He has those created in his image elsewhere?

 

[jon_mx]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

That is one way to spin it... now tell us the relative likelihood among teachers, family members, and priests.

My guess:1. Family Members

2. Friends

3. Teachers

4. Priests

But I am driving

Was your previous statement a guess?

I assumed you had data of some sort.

eta - You feel a kid is safer alone in a room with a catholic priest than his/her own family?

I feel it is a function of opportunity more than anything. The media coverage has greatly skewed the perception of who is responsible for most child molestations. Yes there was data my statement was based in but I did not have the time to post it as I was in transit.

 

[Christo]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

That is one way to spin it... now tell us the relative likelihood among teachers, family members, and priests.

My guess:1. Family Members

2. Friends

3. Teachers

4. Priests

But I am driving

Was your previous statement a guess?

I assumed you had data of some sort.

eta - You feel a kid is safer alone in a room with a catholic priest than his/her own family?

I feel it is a function of opportunity more than anything. The media coverage has greatly skewed the perception of who is responsible for most child molestations. Yes there was data my statement was based in but I did not have the time to post it as I was in transit.

When has the media ever said priests were responsible for most child molestations?

The issue with the Catholic Church wasn't the molestors. It was the systematic protection of the molesters.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Can someone start a "I hate Christians" thread? We don't see enough of those.

 

[Otis]

I just wanted to let you know I did see this.

And your answer is?

Didn't really think it was worth one since all you did was parrot the article I already addressed.

So we don't count god killing people as murder or god didn't kill anyone?

Or it was just a story meant to teach us a lesson about the value of killing people?

Maybe there are more important things than what happens on this fallen planet.

You must be a blast at parties.

 

[Otis]

Can someone start a "I hate Christians" thread? We don't see enough of those.

Not sure what this thread has to do with hate, or Christians for that matter?

But maybe we can start an OFFICIAL Oversensitive and Defensive thread, for folks of all beliefs.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Can someone start a "I hate Christians" thread? We don't see enough of those.

Not sure what this thread has to do with hate, or Christians for that matter?

But maybe we can start an OFFICIAL Oversensitive and Defensive thread, for folks of all beliefs.

Who's being oversensitive? I'm just simply asking if we can start one of those Christian bashing/hating threads since yours clearly isn't.

 

[FUBAR]

How did God address them in Job. Serious question.

First God kills all of Job's children. Then He gives Job leprosy. Then he shouts at Job, "Where we're you when I created the world?" and Job says, "Whatever, Lord, I still believe in you." so God gives him new kids to replace the old ones.

I believe God did not do it, he allowed Satan to.

I fail to see how that makes it any better.

If the God of the Old Testament exists, He knows everything that happens, or will happen. He is responsible for everything that happens. He created Satan and everything Satan does serves the will of God.

You assume much. So no free will? What's the point of anything then?

I don't know. Frankly, I have never understood how the notion of of an omnipotent God meshes with the idea of free will. I have asked religious people throughout my life to explain it to me and I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

Don't know what you're looking for but I believe God has the (really) long term perspective. Some people suffering today might make the world a better place later. I don't know, don't pretend to know and don't need to know.

I also don't believe in a literal interpretation of the Old Testament, so take that FWIW.

What an awful, awful proposition. The God you describe is morally wicked and not worthy of worship.I love the head in the sand approach the worshippers take in here too...I know it reads like genocide, in its purest form, but I'm not meant to use rational thought when applying my everyday morality to the creator. I'm not meant to understand!!!!

Of course, saying such things has no normative meaning, as socrates points out in the Euthyphro.

Like i said, i don't believe in the literal OT. The stories of Eden, Noah, etc are stories meant to convey a message. That message isn't nice and isn't supposed to be. God might chose not to intervene in suffering to allow our better nature to come out.

The NT, the part where we are saved through Jesus, I believe. Whether everything is 100% accurate after being passed orally for generations... I don't know and am ok with that.

this won't make sense to people, that's fine.

 

[Otis]

Can someone start a "I hate Christians" thread? We don't see enough of those.

Not sure what this thread has to do with hate, or Christians for that matter?

But maybe we can start an OFFICIAL Oversensitive and Defensive thread, for folks of all beliefs.

Who's being oversensitive? I'm just simply asking if we can start one of those Christian bashing/hating threads since yours clearly isn't.

Oh ok. That's fine too.

 

[matuski]

You act like you were all repeatedly raped by priests.

You say this as if it would be hard to believe...

Actually it would be. Despite media reports which focus on priests, child molestation is far far far more likely from teachers or family members.

That is one way to spin it... now tell us the relative likelihood among teachers, family members, and priests.

My guess:1. Family Members

2. Friends

3. Teachers

4. Priests

But I am driving

Was your previous statement a guess?

I assumed you had data of some sort.

eta - You feel a kid is safer alone in a room with a catholic priest than his/her own family?

I feel it is a function of opportunity more than anything. The media coverage has greatly skewed the perception of who is responsible for most child molestations. Yes there was data my statement was based in but I did not have the time to post it as I was in transit.

When has the media ever said priests were responsible for most child molestations?

The issue with the Catholic Church wasn't the molestors. It was the systematic protection of the molesters.

Which allowed for more molestors.

 

[Tchula]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

 

[FUBAR]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

probably not, considering most Christians haven't read the whole thing either.

 

[joffer]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

I browsed it, then skipped to the last page

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

I'd be willing to bet that even more Bible thumpers haven't read it.

 

[jon_mx]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

I browsed it, then skipped to the last page

Please don't post any spoilers.

 

[Christo]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

Or, like a lot of people in this country, growing up they were dragged to church, sent to Sunday school and everyone just assumed they were a Christian by default. And now when they explain to those same people that they are not a Christian they laugh nervously and say "of course you are" but when you say no, you're really not a Christian, they get sad or angry because they think you are rejecting them rather than their baseless belief system.

 

[Otis]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

Or, like a lot of people in this country, growing up they were dragged to church, sent to Sunday school and everyone just assumed they were a Christian by default. And now when they explain to those same people that they are not a Christian they laugh nervously and say "of course you are" but when you say no, you're really not a Christian, they get sad or angry because they think you are rejecting them rather than their baseless belief system.

 

[Otis]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

Is anyone in here "bashing" the bible? Or just reading it and talking about what it says. OMG LIKE CHURCH

 

[Schlzm]

I know it's easy and fun to point to religion and mock all the dickishness and contradictions, but let's be honest here, if any of us were omnipotent you think we would be any less of a ####? I bet most here would do all kinds of random crap just for lulz.

Schlzm

 

[Christo]

I know it's easy and fun to point to religion and mock all the dickishness and contradictions, but let's be honest here, if any of us were omnipotent you think we would be any less of a ####? I bet most here would do all kinds of random crap just for lulz.

Schlzm

I wouldn't do anything randomly. I would help people who deserve it and punish the #### out of people who deserve it.

 

[Schlzm]

I know it's easy and fun to point to religion and mock all the dickishness and contradictions, but let's be honest here, if any of us were omnipotent you think we would be any less of a ####? I bet most here would do all kinds of random crap just for lulz.

Schlzm

I wouldn't do anything randomly. I would help people who deserve it and punish the #### out of people who deserve it.

Some random person on a random messageboard would say/do something that annoyed you and you would screw with them under the pretense they *deserved* it even though it would be simply due to vindictiveness or amusement. Schlzm

 

[Christo]

I know it's easy and fun to point to religion and mock all the dickishness and contradictions, but let's be honest here, if any of us were omnipotent you think we would be any less of a ####? I bet most here would do all kinds of random crap just for lulz.

Schlzm

I wouldn't do anything randomly. I would help people who deserve it and punish the #### out of people who deserve it.

Some random person on a random messageboard would say/do something that annoyed you and you would screw with them under the pretense they *deserved* it even though it would be simply due to vindictiveness or amusement.Schlzm

You are not a random person and would deserve everything you get.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

Is anyone in here "bashing" the bible? Or just reading it and talking about what it says. OMG LIKE CHURCH

Uhmm...yeah, pretty much that's what's going on.

 

[Schlzm]

I know it's easy and fun to point to religion and mock all the dickishness and contradictions, but let's be honest here, if any of us were omnipotent you think we would be any less of a ####? I bet most here would do all kinds of random crap just for lulz.

Schlzm

I wouldn't do anything randomly. I would help people who deserve it and punish the #### out of people who deserve it.

Some random person on a random messageboard would say/do something that annoyed you and you would screw with them under the pretense they *deserved* it even though it would be simply due to vindictiveness or amusement.Schlzm

You are not a random person and would deserve everything you get.

For every light there needs to be dark right Schlzm

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

I read the Bible about a year ago, and I actually wondered about some of the very points that he brought up in the article. I did laugh a couple of times at the way he worded things.

 

[Hilts]

Is this an accurate summary of the thoughts from this thread?

1 - God doesn't exist.

2 - Even if he did exist, he's a giagantic dooshnozzle unworthy of worship.

 

[urbanhack]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

Is anyone in here "bashing" the bible? Or just reading it and talking about what it says. OMG LIKE CHURCH

Uhmm...yeah, pretty much that's what's going on.

 

[Otis]

Are we supposed to not question the part in our deity's autobiography where he practices intolerance and slaughters innocents for fun?

 

[Otis]

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

 

[tonydead]

Maybe there are more important things than what happens on this fallen planet.

This is a dangerous mindset.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

But Calvin is no kind and loving god! He's one of the old gods! He demands sacrifice!

Now, I would like to address each of these if I may.

1. You get what you deserve. lol

2. Do you have any idea how valuable salt was back then? It was on par with the value of gold. Who wouldn't want God to turn his wife into solid gold right now? Also lol @ angel rape.

3. Are you really trying to tell me ugly people masturbate to other ugly people? No, even ugly people hate being around ugly people. Another point for God.

4. This is basically the plot of Breaking Bad.

Spoiler

One minute you are all GB's making crazy manna, the next minute you think you should be God. Allegiances change people. Deal with it.

5. Who here has never thought about killing everyone? That's what I thought. We truly were made in God's own image.

6. It was a joke. Lighten up people.

7. You had NINE mother####ing plagues dropped on your ### and the Egyptians were budging. Sometimes you need to escalate #### to show you're serious.

8. God tells you to bang your SIL and you say no? ##### had everything coming to him.

9. Moral of the story, women will get your ### killed.

10. Hint: God was trying to wrestle Jacob like my weird uncle Carl used to like to wrestle me as a kid. In the bathtub.

11. What the #### you think is going to happen to you when you go whining to Don Corleone? Bad ####. A little advice, blow through any toll boothes.

12. He made it up to him with Apple. We should all be so ####ed with.

 

[Ballstein]

The context is not just God and man. If you look at it from the perspective of just God and man, God can look pretty bad. But when the context includes fallen angels and all the havoc they've created with man, it becomes clearer. I used to have a hard time understanding why God would kill the entire world with a flood, until I came to the belief that some of the fallen angels produced their own race of offspring by mating with human women, and it corrupted the world so badly that essentially rebooting the entire world with only 8 people was the most loving thing God could do to save mankind from the sins those fallen angels committed.

Ephesians 6:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Isn't that what Hitler wanted to do too? wipe out the"bad" people?

 

[MaxThreshold]

The context is not just God and man. If you look at it from the perspective of just God and man, God can look pretty bad. But when the context includes fallen angels and all the havoc they've created with man, it becomes clearer. I used to have a hard time understanding why God would kill the entire world with a flood, until I came to the belief that some of the fallen angels produced their own race of offspring by mating with human women, and it corrupted the world so badly that essentially rebooting the entire world with only 8 people was the most loving thing God could do to save mankind from the sins those fallen angels committed.

Ephesians 6:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Isn't that what Hitler wanted to do too? wipe out the"bad" people?

Looks like God wins this match too since the loons bring out the Hitler references.

Hitler reference already used by the 3rd poster in. You're way too late.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

I don't normally read fiction.

 

[timschochet]

Why do people keep bringing up Christians in this thread? It's the OLD Testament, dammit!

Show the Jew some love.

 

[Politician Spock]

The context is not just God and man. If you look at it from the perspective of just God and man, God can look pretty bad. But when the context includes fallen angels and all the havoc they've created with man, it becomes clearer. I used to have a hard time understanding why God would kill the entire world with a flood, until I came to the belief that some of the fallen angels produced their own race of offspring by mating with human women, and it corrupted the world so badly that essentially rebooting the entire world with only 8 people was the most loving thing God could do to save mankind from the sins those fallen angels committed.

Ephesians 6:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Isn't that what Hitler wanted to do too? wipe out the"bad" people?

I don't recall Hitler encountering nephilim.

 

[Galileo]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

Or, like a lot of people in this country, growing up they were dragged to church, sent to Sunday school and everyone just assumed they were a Christian by default. And now when they explain to those same people that they are not a Christian they laugh nervously and say "of course you are" but when you say no, you're really not a Christian, they get sad or angry because they think you are rejecting them rather than their baseless belief system.

This sums up my story very nicely.

 

[Galileo]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

I'd be willing to bet that even more Bible thumpers haven't read it.

Maybe, but they do have it read to them on a regular basis...one cherry picked passage after another.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of these Bible bashers haven't even read the book they're attacking.

I'd be willing to bet that even more Bible thumpers haven't read it.

Depends on how you define read.