Good buy low candidate? (1 Viewer)

[quickhands]

I am an ex-Vick owner.

I just cut him. Whoever wants him can have him.

I don't want to look at his name on my roster. I don't care if it costs me my championship.

I like dogs, I don't like dog fighting.

Yep, it's just that simple for me too. FF is for fun, and it'd be no fun being reminded of this whole ugly thing every time I look at my roster. No thanks.

Wow you only draft moral, god fearing NFLers?I'd love to see your roster.

I'm sure you have 2-3 wife beaters on your team, but hey, they were probably asking for it.

Nice straw man argument. I don't have McMichael on my teamCurrent Roster

CPortis (wife beater? NO)

Edge (wife beater? NO)

Duece (wife beater? NO)

RMoss (wife beater? NO)

THolt (wife Beater? NO)

MJones (wife Beater? NO)

AGates (wife Beater? NO)

Steelers (maybe a couple so there you are) you are possibly right.

My hypocrisy is out there for the world to see.

I don't like wife beaters either. i don't like men who hit women. But as you said sometimes the are just asking for it, so i give them a pass and they get the opportunity to remain with my club.

You are a very dim bulb OCC....

Frankly, I don't care if he smokes weed. or gives some young lady diseases. frankly she should have protected herself.

But in my opinion he is a very sick dude...The Guy likes to see suffering... And I DON"T WANT TO LOOK AT HIS NAME. That is all. And whoever picks him up in my league is gonna be labeled by me as a mike vick's female dog.

So go on get him. He's all yours.

OCC "America's Moral Compass"

 

[Athletic Supporter]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

In two of my leagues league he was the #3 QB, #6 OverallAnother he finished #4 QB, #5 OverallLast league uses a Team QB, probably doesn't count in your mind, but still finished #4 QB, #9 OverallLinks to each in my sig if you feel the need to confirm.

 

[quickhands]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

In two of my leagues league he was the #3 QB, #6 OverallAnother he finished #4 QB, #5 OverallLast league uses a Team QB, probably doesn't count in your mind, but still finished #4 QB, #9 OverallLinks to each in my sig if you feel the need to confirm.

I've had him, and protected him in my league since i drafted him out of college. I defended him. Always pointed out that he is a top 5 fantasy qb. I was waiting for the passing to improve and he would have been the best. It would be easy to cut Joey Harrington or some scrub. I think he is a elite Fantasy QB.And I don't want him. he's all yours.

 

[Kai's Hero]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

In two of my leagues league he was the #3 QB, #6 OverallAnother he finished #4 QB, #5 OverallLast league uses a Team QB, probably doesn't count in your mind, but still finished #4 QB, #9 OverallLinks to each in my sig if you feel the need to confirm.

I've had him, and protected him in my league since i drafted him out of college. I defended him. Always pointed out that he is a top 5 fantasy qb. I was waiting for the passing to improve and he would have been the best. It would be easy to cut Joey Harrington or some scrub. I think he is a elite Fantasy QB.And I don't want him. he's all yours.

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster. MV is a gifted athlete, no doubt, but he is not an elite QB by no stretch. Inaccurate passer, makes poor decisions. He'll have 3-4 blow up games every season but he'll also have 3-4 where he doesn't show up. The other games his typical stat line is 10-24, 148 yds, 1 TD - Sorry, not for me

 

[dparker713]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

 

[dparker713]

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster.

You might want to consult Drinen on that one.

 

[the_sig]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

I mentioned PETA. Never said they are a beacon of justice, I don't agree with some of their stances, and am no champion of them. My exact qoute regarding PETA was: "I was pointing out that this has now become a NATIONAL story, drawn the attention of NATIONAL groups such as PETA, and this type of 'sport' does not play well in other parts of the country. The longer this stays a NATIONAL story, the more pressure advertisers/sponsors/and the general NATIONAL public will put pressure on Goodell and/or Blank to address this by taking Vick out of the spotlight (suspension or otherwise)."I think my qoute still holds true. Organizations such as PETA and the HUmane Society will still try to do all they can to keep this issue in front of the public and force the NFL or the Falcons to take action.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster.

I don't think consistency has much to do with winning. What if they consistently score low points? No, what you need are high scoring players. And yes, Vick has been a top 10 QB in many different formats.

 

[sholditch]

This is a Federal indictment! You don't just get off. You take whatever plea bargain is offered, if any. I would be very, very surprised if Goodell doesn't suspend Vick. He didn't wait for a conviction to suspend PacMan. Even if the NFL decides not to suspend Vick, I can't imagine the Falcons bringing on the PR nightmare tsunami that certainly will come their way by putting him on the field. Michael Vick's NFL career is over.

ROFL.You are utterly insane.How was the PR hit when the Dolphins played a TE who likes to run over pregnant WOMEN. Has beatup up multiple women. Oh the PR fervor. Or not.There are much worse people, who have been convicted of much worse, playing in the NFL. Tank Johnson? The guy is a hot FA pickup! The Titans still won't cut Pacman, and he might be at camp!Bahahahhahahaha.You guys are hilarious. If Pacman is a top 10 CB, there will be 27-28 teams lining up to grab him cheap. You really think if Vick is cut, he's going to sit on the market? *lol* Vick will have another starting job before he reaches his car. Anyway the Falcons can't cut him. A 30m cap hit would devastate the team.

Are you going to show your face when Vick is sentenced to 6+ years in prison or just slink away like all the guys saying he was clear because he wasn't in the first indictment?

 

[sholditch]

I gotta say I think you are wrong here with your analysis.

You compare Vick's current situation to that of Randy McMichael? I think what you are failing to grasp here is McMike is not the face of a franchise, and not a marketing machine for the NFL like Vick. Do I think McMike's crimes are any worse or better than those alleged of Vick? It doesn't matter. The court of public opinion is unfortunately all that really matters here. Sure, Vick will have his day in court, but that will be long after the media has shredded him and he has lost a significant portion of his economic value to both the NFL and the Falcons. You also mention the Falcon's can't cut him due to cap implications?? Since when has that ever been a reason a team can't or won't deal with a player? As I mentioned, the NFL and Falcons will quickly realize that the cost of making the Vick issue go away ($30 mil cap hit, or whatever the real number is) versus the lost revenues from advertising/promotional agreements/ticket sales in this situation make this a fairly simple business decision. It may be a painful decision, but one that I suppose they will realize fairly quickly depending on how things play out in the court of public opinion within the next few days. If this story stays on the front page, with national coverage and maintains pressure from national groups like PETA and the Humane Society calling for boycotts, etc.., Vick won't stand a chance at maintaining his economic value to the NFL & Falcons, which ultimately is far more valuable than his actual football playing ability.

Which is worse? Dog fighting or beating up women?Are you kidding me? Are you even reading what you're typing? Seriously, you need to get a grip on your life.

So wait, an average TE can go beating up women, who cares, he's not a star. But a QB commits a lesser crime, and he's banished from your FF roster? Get him out of the league?

And you don't know the south, Georgia, or Atlanta. Dog fighting is VERY common. Like Portis said, he can show you dog fight after dog fight if you come back to his home town. Vick will still have lots of support. People don't care about what kind a person they are. They want to be entertained. Is anyone really leaving the NFL because of TO? Moss? Tank Johnson? PacMan? How many Titan fans are boycotting the Titans? Come on. Lets not get excited.

And no, Vick isn't getting cut. He's not a huge $$$ liability. In fact, he'll still be a huge draw, and still sell lots of jerseys. People always overrated the moral effect on business along with sports. In general, scumbags still find jobs, and still make massive amounts of money. Frankly people just want to be entertained, and could care less that player X beats women for fun.

The only thing that really matters is wins, sad but true.

Not saying what Vick did is right, but having family in Mississippi. Dog fighting is out there and it is very common. Just like Roster Fighting it is there. It is not hard to find. While this is a national story that does not mean that you cannot go out and find it even today in the South.

So funny how people forget about the Duke story. Everyone was so sure those kids did it and well it turned out that not all the facts that were presented to the Grand Jury were true.

If you choose not to keep Vick on your roster that is your choice, but until the Goddell says he has to sit he will remain on my roster.

MAJOR DIFFERENCE!!! The Duke case involved a he said she said. The Feds are dealing with hard evidence here or they would not have brought charges. Ron Ookie is in trouble!! The Feds want a trophy and Vick is it.

My point is that this board and this nation had the same reaction to the charges. I agree Vick is done after this season. Having grown up on a farm. I have seen some things that I am not proud to have seen done to animals. And that does include Dog Fighting and roster fighting. I personally did not like it, I also was not stupid enough to try to make a business out of it. And had I had the money Mike Vick has I would not put my ### on the line like he has. I think people would be shocked to know how many people that have been or taken part in this type of activity. These people were leaders in the community and went to church every week. And as some have mentioned Vick is not the only professional athlete to have been in the dog fighting circle.

I hate Vick. I hate dogfighting. I hate the south. I hate people who go to church every week.Roster fighting, on the other hand, is awesome. Although up here in the north we call it fantasy football.

We have a joke in Alabama, called "thank God for Mississippi" because if it weren't for them we'd be last in everything, but we're only second to last. Point being our states are not very different. I have lived in the South my entire life and the above statement is why I felt I needed to clear the air. While I have had a middle-class upbringing in a suburban setting, which likely set me far apart from circles that engage in dogfighting, I can say that I have never known anyone invovled in it, never heard about a dogfighting ring, and there have never been any cases in this state that I have seen alleging dogfighting. I don't doubt it goes on, somewhere, but unless you are a barefoot hick or a ghetto thug, you are not likely to run into it. Everyone I know here is absolutely outraged at Vick's actions. Despite OCC's portrayal, we are not all barefoot hicks sipping moonshine and fighting dogs and rosters (sic). I'm sure that goes on somewhere but it no more mainstream here than anywhere else. People who engage in it are sick, depraved individuals that need to be brought to justice and put in prison. Just the opinion of your average Southern redneck.

 

[Kai's Hero]

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster.

I don't think consistency has much to do with winning. What if they consistently score low points? No, what you need are high scoring players. And yes, Vick has been a top 10 QB in many different formats.

I guess I need to clarify for a few of you. :X Yes, consistently good scorers

 

[Couch Potato]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

Since publicly accessible, I'll post one right herehttp://football24.myfantasyleague.com/2006...ints&TEAM=*

As I mentioned in a post above, he was #2 QB last year in a league I'm in. LINK(4 pt/pass TD, 1 pt/25 yds passing, 6 pt/rush TD, 1 pt/10 yds rushing)

By the way, after putting out the email expressing my intention to deal him in the next two days, I have received offers and will be accepting one of them at around 5 PM PDT. I'm not getting anything great for him, but that's OK. And I have no negative opinion towards anybody wanting to acquire him. As I said before, we all make our own choices and not owning him is a personal choice for me.

 

[dparker713]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

I mentioned PETA. Never said they are a beacon of justice, I don't agree with some of their stances, and am no champion of them. My exact qoute regarding PETA was: "I was pointing out that this has now become a NATIONAL story, drawn the attention of NATIONAL groups such as PETA, and this type of 'sport' does not play well in other parts of the country. The longer this stays a NATIONAL story, the more pressure advertisers/sponsors/and the general NATIONAL public will put pressure on Goodell and/or Blank to address this by taking Vick out of the spotlight (suspension or otherwise)."I think my qoute still holds true. Organizations such as PETA and the HUmane Society will still try to do all they can to keep this issue in front of the public and force the NFL or the Falcons to take action.

Ok, well, I stand by the rest of my statement as well - PETA being one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. At this point, I very much doubt their ability to significantly influence policy. You lose a tad bit of credibility after you compare animal treatment to the holocaust. The Humane Society might have more luck, but Im not sure how much.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster.

I don't think consistency has much to do with winning. What if they consistently score low points? No, what you need are high scoring players. And yes, Vick has been a top 10 QB in many different formats.

I guess I need to clarify for a few of you. Yes, consistently good scorers

Then say what you mean next time.

 

[tomarken]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

#3 in mine. And I'm not going to PM you anything so don't bother asking.

#3 in mine as well:Manning 336.25Brees 320.80Vick 297.95Bulger 294.25Palmer 284.65....

 

[gump]

I have lived in the South my entire life and the above statement is why I felt I needed to clear the air. While I have had a middle-class upbringing in a suburban setting, which likely set me far apart from circles that engage in dogfighting, I can say that I have never known anyone invovled in it, never heard about a dogfighting ring, and there have never been any cases in this state that I have seen alleging dogfighting. I don't doubt it goes on, somewhere, but unless you are a barefoot hick or a ghetto thug, you are not likely to run into it. Everyone I know here is absolutely outraged at Vick's actions. Despite OCC's portrayal, we are not all barefoot hicks sipping moonshine and fighting dogs and rosters (sic). I'm sure that goes on somewhere but it no more mainstream here than anywhere else. People who engage in it are sick, depraved individuals that need to be brought to justice and put in prison. Just the opinion of your average Southern redneck.

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

#3 in mine. And I'm not going to PM you anything so don't bother asking.

#3 in mine as well:Manning 336.25Brees 320.80Vick 297.95Bulger 294.25Palmer 284.65....

Vick has been sniffing 10 and under for years. He's up and down, but he's put up good points in some leagues I've been in.He gets them with his legs, but apoint is a point is a point.YOu can argue you don't want him now -- but I think the guy has been a decent starts for alot of teams -- overa season.It's game to game consistency that is his FF downfall.

 

[sholditch]

I have lived in the South my entire life and the above statement is why I felt I needed to clear the air. While I have had a middle-class upbringing in a suburban setting, which likely set me far apart from circles that engage in dogfighting, I can say that I have never known anyone invovled in it, never heard about a dogfighting ring, and there have never been any cases in this state that I have seen alleging dogfighting. I don't doubt it goes on, somewhere, but unless you are a barefoot hick or a ghetto thug, you are not likely to run into it. Everyone I know here is absolutely outraged at Vick's actions. Despite OCC's portrayal, we are not all barefoot hicks sipping moonshine and fighting dogs and rosters (sic). I'm sure that goes on somewhere but it no more mainstream here than anywhere else. People who engage in it are sick, depraved individuals that need to be brought to justice and put in prison. Just the opinion of your average Southern redneck.

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

ROLL TIDE MOFO!!!ETA: Now that is common

 

[the_sig]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

I mentioned PETA. Never said they are a beacon of justice, I don't agree with some of their stances, and am no champion of them. My exact qoute regarding PETA was: "I was pointing out that this has now become a NATIONAL story, drawn the attention of NATIONAL groups such as PETA, and this type of 'sport' does not play well in other parts of the country. The longer this stays a NATIONAL story, the more pressure advertisers/sponsors/and the general NATIONAL public will put pressure on Goodell and/or Blank to address this by taking Vick out of the spotlight (suspension or otherwise)."I think my qoute still holds true. Organizations such as PETA and the HUmane Society will still try to do all they can to keep this issue in front of the public and force the NFL or the Falcons to take action.

Ok, well, I stand by the rest of my statement as well - PETA being one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. At this point, I very much doubt their ability to significantly influence policy. You lose a tad bit of credibility after you compare animal treatment to the holocaust. The Humane Society might have more luck, but Im not sure how much.

LOL...you keep pulling 'qoutes' out of your A##. I haven't said word one regarding the holocaust??

 

[greenroom]

I have lived in the South my entire life and the above statement is why I felt I needed to clear the air. While I have had a middle-class upbringing in a suburban setting, which likely set me far apart from circles that engage in dogfighting, I can say that I have never known anyone invovled in it, never heard about a dogfighting ring, and there have never been any cases in this state that I have seen alleging dogfighting. I don't doubt it goes on, somewhere, but unless you are a barefoot hick or a ghetto thug, you are not likely to run into it. Everyone I know here is absolutely outraged at Vick's actions. Despite OCC's portrayal, we are not all barefoot hicks sipping moonshine and fighting dogs and rosters (sic). I'm sure that goes on somewhere but it no more mainstream here than anywhere else. People who engage in it are sick, depraved individuals that need to be brought to justice and put in prison. Just the opinion of your average Southern redneck.

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.

It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

Well I guess Newsweek is incorrect in the story they have done. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19836601/site/newsweek/page/2/

From the story:

This week’s federal indictment of NFL superstar Michael Vick, complete with stomach-turning allegations, has brought this blood sport to the front pages, but it’s really nothing new: organized fighting has been around as long as domesticated dogs. (Vick, who has not pled in the case, is scheduled to appear in court on July 26.) Dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony in every one but Idaho and Wyoming, but no federal agency tracks national arrest figures. Animal advocacy groups and law enforcement gauge its popularity through media reports and court filings, Web activity, the number of publications—like “Match Night” and “Sporting Dog Journal”—and the simple fact that many urban dog shelters are flooded with pit bulls, by far the most popular fighting breed. According to Mark Kumpf, a member of the National Illegal Animal Fighting Task Force, dogfighting is increasing nationwide. “It’s a multibillion-dollar industry,” Kumpf says, “and it’s partly because it’s glamorized in the entertainment industry in hip-hop, rap, and professional sports.”

In 2006, pet-abuse.com found 122 suspected dogfighting cases nationwide (114 with pit bulls), but that number only represents a fraction of cases. Many police departments don’t report dogfighting, and many cities don’t announce that they have confiscated dogs because owners have been known to break in and steal them back. Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, says at least 40,000 people are actively involved in the industry, not including spectators. He calls it the modern day equivalent of the fights in the Roman Colosseum: “It comes from the same dark place in the human spirit.”

This is a bigger problem than any one probably wants to know.

 

[Big Talker]

Good buy low candidate?

He's a no buy candidate since he's taken his last NFL snap.

 

[gump]

I have lived in the South my entire life and the above statement is why I felt I needed to clear the air. While I have had a middle-class upbringing in a suburban setting, which likely set me far apart from circles that engage in dogfighting, I can say that I have never known anyone invovled in it, never heard about a dogfighting ring, and there have never been any cases in this state that I have seen alleging dogfighting. I don't doubt it goes on, somewhere, but unless you are a barefoot hick or a ghetto thug, you are not likely to run into it. Everyone I know here is absolutely outraged at Vick's actions. Despite OCC's portrayal, we are not all barefoot hicks sipping moonshine and fighting dogs and rosters (sic). I'm sure that goes on somewhere but it no more mainstream here than anywhere else. People who engage in it are sick, depraved individuals that need to be brought to justice and put in prison. Just the opinion of your average Southern redneck.

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.

It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

Well I guess Newsweek is incorrect in the story they have done. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19836601/site/newsweek/page/2/

From the story:

This week’s federal indictment of NFL superstar Michael Vick, complete with stomach-turning allegations, has brought this blood sport to the front pages, but it’s really nothing new: organized fighting has been around as long as domesticated dogs. (Vick, who has not pled in the case, is scheduled to appear in court on July 26.) Dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony in every one but Idaho and Wyoming, but no federal agency tracks national arrest figures. Animal advocacy groups and law enforcement gauge its popularity through media reports and court filings, Web activity, the number of publications—like “Match Night” and “Sporting Dog Journal”—and the simple fact that many urban dog shelters are flooded with pit bulls, by far the most popular fighting breed. According to Mark Kumpf, a member of the National Illegal Animal Fighting Task Force, dogfighting is increasing nationwide. “It’s a multibillion-dollar industry,” Kumpf says, “and it’s partly because it’s glamorized in the entertainment industry in hip-hop, rap, and professional sports.”

In 2006, pet-abuse.com found 122 suspected dogfighting cases nationwide (114 with pit bulls), but that number only represents a fraction of cases. Many police departments don’t report dogfighting, and many cities don’t announce that they have confiscated dogs because owners have been known to break in and steal them back. Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, says at least 40,000 people are actively involved in the industry, not including spectators. He calls it the modern day equivalent of the fights in the Roman Colosseum: “It comes from the same dark place in the human spirit.”

This is a bigger problem than any one probably wants to know.

I realize it's a problem (now anyway)...but nothing there tells me it's "common" in the South. I've talked to a cousin of mine who lives near Pensacola...he's never heard of any local dogfights either.

 

[bspoppa]

Since when is Vick Top Tier The guy isn't a Top 10 QB with or without the Dog Show. 12 games? I wouldn't touch him if he played all 16. He's one of the most inconsistent fantasy QB's there is. You go get him!

Your arrogance inspired me to check my teams from last year. Two leagues with some different scoring. He was the #4 QB in both

My "arrogance" would like to see those results. Go ahead and PM them to me. I'll wait.

#3 in mine. And I'm not going to PM you anything so don't bother asking.

#3 in mine as well:Manning 336.25Brees 320.80Vick 297.95Bulger 294.25Palmer 284.65....

Vick has been sniffing 10 and under for years. He's up and down, but he's put up good points in some leagues I've been in.He gets them with his legs, but apoint is a point is a point.YOu can argue you don't want him now -- but I think the guy has been a decent starts for alot of teams -- overa season.It's game to game consistency that is his FF downfall.

Vick always gets labeled as a guy that is inconsistent, but at least last year with his running he was pretty consistent for most of the year. He didnt fall below 12 point in any of the first 13 games, breaking 20 in 5 of them. He struggled down the stretch putting up 3 single digit games in the last 4, but 3 in the single digits isn't that bad. Vick has many off days throwing the ball and no doubt hurts the Falcons chances of winning those games with such inaccurate tosses. But in terms of fantasy he has his legs to salavage a decent week even though he looked ugly on the field. A lot of QB's that people label as being consistent had bad games as well. Carson, Bulger, Brees, Brady all had 2 games with single digit points last year and they are all thought of as being consistent. It may not hold true for his career, but for most of last year he was actually one of the more consistent fantasy QB's

 

[dparker713]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

I mentioned PETA. Never said they are a beacon of justice, I don't agree with some of their stances, and am no champion of them. My exact qoute regarding PETA was: "I was pointing out that this has now become a NATIONAL story, drawn the attention of NATIONAL groups such as PETA, and this type of 'sport' does not play well in other parts of the country. The longer this stays a NATIONAL story, the more pressure advertisers/sponsors/and the general NATIONAL public will put pressure on Goodell and/or Blank to address this by taking Vick out of the spotlight (suspension or otherwise)."I think my qoute still holds true. Organizations such as PETA and the HUmane Society will still try to do all they can to keep this issue in front of the public and force the NFL or the Falcons to take action.

Ok, well, I stand by the rest of my statement as well - PETA being one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. At this point, I very much doubt their ability to significantly influence policy. You lose a tad bit of credibility after you compare animal treatment to the holocaust. The Humane Society might have more luck, but Im not sure how much.

LOL...you keep pulling 'qoutes' out of your A##. I haven't said word one regarding the holocaust??

You was not referring to you, it was referring to PETA.Peta Holocaust

 

[AussieOyOyOy]

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.

It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

You're from Alabama, and you have spent time with both city slickers and hicks. Therefore, you are qualified to make a blanket statement regarding an entire region of the country.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Pitbull Sodomizes 2 year old child

 

[NoFBinLA]

I think that - and this is an early guess - but Vick is out this season for most of it, if not all. I dunno about jailtime, BUT I have a feeling he won't see the max. He'll do his time and be back - maybe missing part of 2008.

So if you have LOADS of bench space, he represents possible value in Dynasty. It's risky given the many X-factors we face (suspension, lifetime ban, impact of not playing or jail upon his abilities) but this guy has been a top 10 QB before. Depending upon how he deals with the time off, he could represent some good value down the road.

But it's a risk.

Redraft he's untouchable this year unless you really like to play long odds.

BTW - I am not justifying what he did/may have done, nor sayign I love him for it. But from a cold hearted FF POV, he could have some long term value.

I now step back fro mthe podium and start ducking thrown objects.

edited to add -- he's also risky b/c he's wildly inconsistent game to game. So there's that to consider too.

 

[gump]

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.

It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

You're from Alabama, and you have spent time with both city slickers and hicks. Therefore, you are qualified to make a blanket statement regarding an entire region of the country.

Obviously I'm not qualified...it's my opinion based on experience in the state that was brought up. The fact that I've never even heard of it happened, nor has any of my family or friends that I've asked, makes me question how common it is.But we should qualify "common". To me, it sounds like some think you can walk into any southern town, ask the local bartender where to find a dog fight, and you can find one.

 

[sholditch]

I am from Alabama, went to college in Alabama, have family in big towns (B'ham, Montgomery) and small (Marion, Monroeville)...and have NEVER heard any mention of dogfighting. And I have hung out with some real small town hicks, drinking moonshine at "the hill" and going cowtipping and deer hunting.

It's not common or a known activity...anywhere.

You're from Alabama, and you have spent time with both city slickers and hicks. Therefore, you are qualified to make a blanket statement regarding an entire region of the country.

I would guess that by your name you're Australian. Sooo, what would you know that this guy wouldn't about the South?PS: Make that two people from Alabama that have never heard of it going on, multiplied by everyone we know.

Just wanted to add the "oy Oy oy" is a common skinhead rallying cry, in this country at least

 

[Couch Potato]

He was just dropped in a dynasty league I play in. As far as I know the guy didn't even try to trade him, he just flat out dropped him.

Good for him. I don't care how far he drops in my league, I won't draft him.

I have him in one of my 11 leagues, a dynasty league I took over before last year began. Vick was already on the team.In our scoring system, he was the #2 QB to Manning last year and helped me to a division title.

I was taking a wait-and-see approach to the whole dog fighting thing until yesterday. I had actually hoped he really was just an innocent provider of the home and was unaware of what was going on there, and ESPN had fooled me into believing he would be unaffected. Foolishly, I had even made a couple of 'buy low' offers in other leagues for him based on this thinking. Luckily for me, both offers were rejected.

I read the entire indictment yesterday and was sickened. I concluded I want nothing to do with this guy, and sent an email out to the league I own him in, telling them I'd have Vick on the trading block for 2 days and the best offer gets him. So far, not a peep.

My leaguemates may be reading this, but I don't care. If I get no offers, I cut him. It has nothing to do with whether I think he'll play 16 games this year or never play again. Even if I were certain he'd play all year, I'd still cut him. I want no association with him and don't want to see his name on my roster, period.

In case anybody remembers this post and is curious, I ended up getting Muhsin Muhammad for Vick. Beats cutting him outright.

 

[sholditch]

good for you. seriously, not sarcastic. the guy is a total POS

 

[Couch Potato]

good for you. seriously, not sarcastic. the guy is a total POS

It's good just having the roster clear of him. The 'ick' factor was going to bother me. I got 3 offers in all (I won't say what the other 2 were), and have no reason to condemn anyone else from rostering him. This was a personal choice for myself, and I have no regrets losing his scoring potential.

 

[Kai's Hero]

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster.

I don't think consistency has much to do with winning. What if they consistently score low points? No, what you need are high scoring players. And yes, Vick has been a top 10 QB in many different formats.

I guess I need to clarify for a few of you. Yes, consistently good scorers

Then say what you mean next time.

Perhaps I should draw you a picture too?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Winning fantasy football championships is all about having consistent scorers on your roster.

I don't think consistency has much to do with winning. What if they consistently score low points? No, what you need are high scoring players. And yes, Vick has been a top 10 QB in many different formats.

I guess I need to clarify for a few of you. Yes, consistently good scorers

Then say what you mean next time.

Perhaps I should draw you a picture too?

If you are that limited, I guess Don't get mad at me becuase you have clarity issues.

 

[Pots]

I gotta say I think you are wrong here with your analysis.You compare Vick's current situation to that of Randy McMichael? I think what you are failing to grasp here is McMike is not the face of a franchise, and not a marketing machine for the NFL like Vick. Do I think McMike's crimes are any worse or better than those alleged of Vick? It doesn't matter. The court of public opinion is unfortunately all that really matters here. Sure, Vick will have his day in court, but that will be long after the media has shredded him and he has lost a significant portion of his economic value to both the NFL and the Falcons. You also mention the Falcon's can't cut him due to cap implications?? Since when has that ever been a reason a team can't or won't deal with a player? As I mentioned, the NFL and Falcons will quickly realize that the cost of making the Vick issue go away ($30 mil cap hit, or whatever the real number is) versus the lost revenues from advertising/promotional agreements/ticket sales in this situation make this a fairly simple business decision. It may be a painful decision, but one that I suppose they will realize fairly quickly depending on how things play out in the court of public opinion within the next few days. If this story stays on the front page, with national coverage and maintains pressure from national groups like PETA and the Humane Society calling for boycotts, etc.., Vick won't stand a chance at maintaining his economic value to the NFL & Falcons, which ultimately is far more valuable than his actual football playing ability.

Which is worse? Dog fighting or beating up women?Are you kidding me? Are you even reading what you're typing? Seriously, you need to get a grip on your life.So wait, an average TE can go beating up women, who cares, he's not a star. But a QB commits a lesser crime, and he's banished from your FF roster? Get him out of the league? And you don't know the south, Georgia, or Atlanta. Dog fighting is VERY common. Like Portis said, he can show you dog fight after dog fight if you come back to his home town. Vick will still have lots of support. People don't care about what kind a person they are. They want to be entertained. Is anyone really leaving the NFL because of TO? Moss? Tank Johnson? PacMan? How many Titan fans are boycotting the Titans? Come on. Lets not get excited.And no, Vick isn't getting cut. He's not a huge $$ liability. In fact, he'll still be a huge draw, and still sell lots of jerseys. People always overrated the moral effect on business along with sports. In general, scumbags still find jobs, and still make massive amounts of money. Frankly people just want to be entertained, and could care less that player X beats women for fun.The only thing that really matters is wins, sad but true.

YOU ARE HIGH!!! I am a dog owner and I know that the public will not stand for this action. Mike has crossed the line in America. People in our country are slow to anger but once they are pissed they will attack whole heartedly. MVick is in a world of hurt.

I was bit by a dog when i was 6 years old, almost died and had 37 stitches in my head, this was by a dalmation(sp). A couple years ago a german shepherd attacked me while I was walking up to a friends house, the dog got out of it's yard nextdoor and bit into my side and thrashed around until I punched it in the face, nice wound in my side but nothing serious. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a dog lover, I would rather have a cat, I don't have time to take the dog out to do it's business, walk the dog, worry about the dog annoying my neighbors barking while I'm at work, etc; just not my thing.I own Vick in 2 leagues, 1 I have Peyton, 1 I have Eli so I'll survive but it stings if he misses alot of time. What Vick is involved in is extremely disgusting and cruel.That said, you people need to get off your soapbox. This is not worse than Pacman being responsible for putting a guy in a wheelchair for the rest of his life or what Randy McMichael did, or for that matter Leonard Little. Human beings have more rights than dogs, that's our legal system and it's sad to see that some people value the life of a dog more than a person. I think what Vick and his pals do is horrible, do you overemotional dog lovers get as pissed off when a pitbull murders a child... oh yeah, it's not the dogs fault, right?

It's sad that some people value the life of many dogs less than the injury of a human. I don't think anyone here said they value the life of a dog more than a human. Just that the repeated abuse and murder of these animals in forced fighting rings is worse than an assault on a person.

 

[Keith Lewis]

I gotta say I think you are wrong here with your analysis.

You compare Vick's current situation to that of Randy McMichael? I think what you are failing to grasp here is McMike is not the face of a franchise, and not a marketing machine for the NFL like Vick. Do I think McMike's crimes are any worse or better than those alleged of Vick? It doesn't matter. The court of public opinion is unfortunately all that really matters here. Sure, Vick will have his day in court, but that will be long after the media has shredded him and he has lost a significant portion of his economic value to both the NFL and the Falcons. You also mention the Falcon's can't cut him due to cap implications?? Since when has that ever been a reason a team can't or won't deal with a player? As I mentioned, the NFL and Falcons will quickly realize that the cost of making the Vick issue go away ($30 mil cap hit, or whatever the real number is) versus the lost revenues from advertising/promotional agreements/ticket sales in this situation make this a fairly simple business decision. It may be a painful decision, but one that I suppose they will realize fairly quickly depending on how things play out in the court of public opinion within the next few days. If this story stays on the front page, with national coverage and maintains pressure from national groups like PETA and the Humane Society calling for boycotts, etc.., Vick won't stand a chance at maintaining his economic value to the NFL & Falcons, which ultimately is far more valuable than his actual football playing ability.

Which is worse? Dog fighting or beating up women?Are you kidding me? Are you even reading what you're typing? Seriously, you need to get a grip on your life.

So wait, an average TE can go beating up women, who cares, he's not a star. But a QB commits a lesser crime, and he's banished from your FF roster? Get him out of the league?

And you don't know the south, Georgia, or Atlanta. Dog fighting is VERY common. Like Portis said, he can show you dog fight after dog fight if you come back to his home town. Vick will still have lots of support. People don't care about what kind a person they are. They want to be entertained. Is anyone really leaving the NFL because of TO? Moss? Tank Johnson? PacMan? How many Titan fans are boycotting the Titans? Come on. Lets not get excited.

And no, Vick isn't getting cut. He's not a huge $ liability. In fact, he'll still be a huge draw, and still sell lots of jerseys. People always overrated the moral effect on business along with sports. In general, scumbags still find jobs, and still make massive amounts of money. Frankly people just want to be entertained, and could care less that player X beats women for fun.

The only thing that really matters is wins, sad but true.

YOU ARE HIGH!!! I am a dog owner and I know that the public will not stand for this action. Mike has crossed the line in America. People in our country are slow to anger but once they are pissed they will attack whole heartedly. MVick is in a world of hurt.

I was bit by a dog when i was 6 years old, almost died and had 37 stitches in my head, this was by a dalmation(sp). A couple years ago a german shepherd attacked me while I was walking up to a friends house, the dog got out of it's yard nextdoor and bit into my side and thrashed around until I punched it in the face, nice wound in my side but nothing serious. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a dog lover, I would rather have a cat, I don't have time to take the dog out to do it's business, walk the dog, worry about the dog annoying my neighbors barking while I'm at work, etc; just not my thing.I own Vick in 2 leagues, 1 I have Peyton, 1 I have Eli so I'll survive but it stings if he misses alot of time.

What Vick is involved in is extremely disgusting and cruel.

That said, you people need to get off your soapbox. This is not worse than Pacman being responsible for putting a guy in a wheelchair for the rest of his life or what Randy McMichael did, or for that matter Leonard Little. Human beings have more rights than dogs, that's our legal system and it's sad to see that some people value the life of a dog more than a person. I think what Vick and his pals do is horrible, do you overemotional dog lovers get as pissed off when a pitbull murders a child... oh yeah, it's not the dogs fault, right?

It's sad that some people value the life of many dogs less than the injury of a human. I don't think anyone here said they value the life of a dog more than a human. Just that the repeated abuse and murder of these animals in forced fighting rings is worse than an assault on a person.

I would not go so far to paint myself with the above bolded part, I apologize if that's what you took from my comments. I don't like dogs but at the same time I do not condone violence against dogs or any other species for that matter. I'd even go so far as to say I have a very low opinion of people who hunt and then do not eat the kill, go shoot a soda pop can if you're not going to eat the kill. I'll probaly get ripped cause I know people love shooting their guns.

 

[cobalt_27]

Vick, FF wise, is like being served a plate of vomit. Well now there's more vomit on the plate. Doesn't change the fact that I didn't want the first helping of vomit in the first place.

 

[Kai's Hero]

If you take away Vick's legal issues, from a strict FF perspective, he's a feast or famine kind of player. One week he goes crazy and puts up huge numbers. Some weeks he gets his rushing stats but otherwise disappears. Unfortunately people like to throw around yearly numbers when evaluating a player. It's just as important how consistent those numbers are week in and week out. Colt's WRs are kind of a hit and miss proposition. You'd think not sometimes based on Manning and a strong O line. But sometimes Wayne goes crazy then next week it's Harrison's turn. Again, great yearly numbers, but week to week, those points you roll the dice on can cost you games. Vick is an exciting player, but he's not a polished player, at least not at the QB position. I can live with some give and take with my FF RBs and WRs. But QBs, I want consistency. Vick, FF wise, is like being served a plate of vomit. Well now there's more vomit on the plate. Doesn't change the fact that I didn't want the first helping of vomit in the first place.

I concur.

 

[Traders2001]

I don't really see the point of drafting someone who will never play another down in the NFL again. Why not draft Priest Holmes or Marhsall Faulk instead. At least they're good guys.

You wanna bet .....He will play this season and next and next . Those guys have a lot of money can afford great lawyers .It s not like he is a murderer ( Ray Lewis is and came out with nothing ) so expect the same for Vick.

 

[omally]

I don't really see the point of drafting someone who will never play another down in the NFL again. Why not draft Priest Holmes or Marhsall Faulk instead. At least they're good guys.

You wanna bet .....He will play this season and next and next . Those guys have a lot of money can afford great lawyers .It s not like he is a murderer ( Ray Lewis is and came out with nothing ) so expect the same for Vick.

He is a murderer. He murders dogs. He can pay for the best lawyer money can buy, but that lawyer he pays for is going up against some of the best experts in the Nation.

 

[3C's]

I don't really see the point of drafting someone who will never play another down in the NFL again. Why not draft Priest Holmes or Marhsall Faulk instead. At least they're good guys.

You wanna bet .....He will play this season and next and next . Those guys have a lot of money can afford great lawyers .It s not like he is a murderer ( Ray Lewis is and came out with nothing ) so expect the same for Vick.

You don't have a real good track record. You were in the same "league" as iluvbeer99 and Keith Lewis spouting about Vick being cleared, how he'll never be charged, he's innocent, etc. So in other words, Mort, if you're saying he'll play it's almost definite he won't.

 

[Stealthycat]

you can't "murder" dogs no more than you can murder a tomato plant

 

[Truman]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

I mentioned PETA. Never said they are a beacon of justice, I don't agree with some of their stances, and am no champion of them. My exact qoute regarding PETA was: "I was pointing out that this has now become a NATIONAL story, drawn the attention of NATIONAL groups such as PETA, and this type of 'sport' does not play well in other parts of the country. The longer this stays a NATIONAL story, the more pressure advertisers/sponsors/and the general NATIONAL public will put pressure on Goodell and/or Blank to address this by taking Vick out of the spotlight (suspension or otherwise)."I think my qoute still holds true. Organizations such as PETA and the HUmane Society will still try to do all they can to keep this issue in front of the public and force the NFL or the Falcons to take action.

Ok, well, I stand by the rest of my statement as well - PETA being one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. At this point, I very much doubt their ability to significantly influence policy. You lose a tad bit of credibility after you compare animal treatment to the holocaust. The Humane Society might have more luck, but Im not sure how much.

It won't help if it gets out that their main mouthpiece is a former terrorist:Biography

John “J.P.” Goodwin is the grassroots coordinator at the Humane Society of the United States, the world’s richest animal-rights organization. Goodwin, who previously co-founded the Texas-based Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, is clear about his intentions, writing in one Internet activist listserv: “My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.” He’s developed a lengthy arrest record in pursuit of that goal. He was arrested and convicted for being the ringleader of a crew that vandalized fur retailers in multiple states during the 1990s. The animal-rights watchdog newspaper Animal People News profiled Goodwin in 2000, noting that he “gleefully announced a string of Animal Liberation Front mink releases and arsons against furriers and fur farms” while a “spokesman” for the underground terrorist group.

Goodwin also handled the media after a Petaluma, California, slaughterhouse arson in February 1997. But he really shocked the public with his comments on the March 1997 arson at a farmer’s feed co-op in Utah. Referring to a fire that caused almost $1 million in damage and could easily have killed a family sleeping on the premises, Goodwin told the Deseret News, “We’re ecstatic.”

http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3364

 

[sholditch]

I don't really see the point of drafting someone who will never play another down in the NFL again. Why not draft Priest Holmes or Marhsall Faulk instead. At least they're good guys.

You wanna bet .....He will play this season and next and next . Those guys have a lot of money can afford great lawyers .It s not like he is a murderer ( Ray Lewis is and came out with nothing ) so expect the same for Vick.

sorry, but you are freaking delusional. Would you like to make a bet on this in any monetary terms? Do you know nothing about federal indictments? Do you think that any case involving an athlete is the same because they are athletes?

 

[the_sig]

First off, this trial, with everything that it currently entails and everything it will entail when it's over, will take about two years. Remember they haven't even gone to trial yet, this is just a grand jury to decide if the prosecutors have enough to go forward, and they will decide that they do. At that point the prosecutors can go straight to trial or choose to enlarge their case by gathering more evidence. If Vick's kennels that he owns in Georgia aren't brought into this I'll eat my hat. Anyway, he won't be able to play during those two years because he will need all his time to deal with this. This is not a simple case and will be a very complicated defense that will require a lot of Vick's time, if he doesn't plead guilty to reduce his sentence. He doesn't appear to be bright so I doubt he will do that. So right there, assuming no suspension, which is ludicrous, you're looking at 1-2 years removed from the game for a guy that has never thrown above 60%. Then, there is the fact that feds have a 95% conviction rate. Assuming he is convicted, which is a safe assumption given the %s, Vick could be looking at anywhere from 3-20 years in jail. If you are thinking he'll provide some value this year until things get bad, at least wait until the end of the week. If no suspensions come down this week, then Goodell is likely going to wait for a verdict. If he's not (my money) then it should come swiftly.

I doubt this. Sure, he'll be distracted and the case will take a fair amount of his time, but the lawyers will be doing the work, not Vick.

This is not a Kobe Bryant "he said she said" trial or something as simple as a drug deal, like Lewis. It won't matter anyway. If Goodell doesn't suspend him Blank will. Rather than argue this I'll just wait until I'm proven right on Friday.

This is the fastest federal court system in the country! Richmond,VA. There is no way on earth this goes 2 years. My closest freind from my time in the Corps is an FBI agent in DC, he said that the saying"don't make a federal case out of this" sounds like a joke, but it is not. They will outspend even Michael Vick on pretrial preperations.. They don't loose cases, PERIOD.

Wow, you have alot more faith in AG Gonzalez than I do. The fact of the matter is that you can throw out most if not all of your statistics in this case. They're mainly based upon cases against people without the financial means to defend themselves. And while Federal defenders on the whole are fairly good, Vick will be getting a significantly better defense.

Also, while the Feds normally would not prosecute a case like this without truly solid evidence, its quite possible that things proceeded due to intense media pressure. So until I see some of the evidence Im not about to make a judgment on the likelihood of a conviction.

And despite their fairly large budget, the US Attorney's office does have limited resources and does lose cases. The bar to obtain an indictment is very low, meanwhile the bar to obtain a conviction is very high.

Furthermore, this may very well be an extremely fast docket, but it would be extremely easy for the defense to postpone things during the season so as not to place an undue burden on Vick.

Finally, someone keeps bringing up PETA as some beacon of justice, and PETA is one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. If you want to persuade people its generally best not to rely on an organization that values animal life over human life.

I mentioned PETA. Never said they are a beacon of justice, I don't agree with some of their stances, and am no champion of them. My exact qoute regarding PETA was: "I was pointing out that this has now become a NATIONAL story, drawn the attention of NATIONAL groups such as PETA, and this type of 'sport' does not play well in other parts of the country. The longer this stays a NATIONAL story, the more pressure advertisers/sponsors/and the general NATIONAL public will put pressure on Goodell and/or Blank to address this by taking Vick out of the spotlight (suspension or otherwise)."I think my qoute still holds true. Organizations such as PETA and the HUmane Society will still try to do all they can to keep this issue in front of the public and force the NFL or the Falcons to take action.

Ok, well, I stand by the rest of my statement as well - PETA being one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. At this point, I very much doubt their ability to significantly influence policy. You lose a tad bit of credibility after you compare animal treatment to the holocaust. The Humane Society might have more luck, but Im not sure how much.

It won't help if it gets out that their main mouthpiece is a former terrorist:Biography

John “J.P.” Goodwin is the grassroots coordinator at the Humane Society of the United States, the world’s richest animal-rights organization. Goodwin, who previously co-founded the Texas-based Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, is clear about his intentions, writing in one Internet activist listserv: “My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.” He’s developed a lengthy arrest record in pursuit of that goal. He was arrested and convicted for being the ringleader of a crew that vandalized fur retailers in multiple states during the 1990s. The animal-rights watchdog newspaper Animal People News profiled Goodwin in 2000, noting that he “gleefully announced a string of Animal Liberation Front mink releases and arsons against furriers and fur farms” while a “spokesman” for the underground terrorist group.

Goodwin also handled the media after a Petaluma, California, slaughterhouse arson in February 1997. But he really shocked the public with his comments on the March 1997 arson at a farmer’s feed co-op in Utah. Referring to a fire that caused almost $1 million in damage and could easily have killed a family sleeping on the premises, Goodwin told the Deseret News, “We’re ecstatic.”

http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3364

I guess the point that is being missed when I brought up PETA is not that I like them, agree with them or anything. All I'm saying is that groups like PETA, the Human Society, the Rev. Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson, etc...have come to realize that if they keep stories like this in the front of the national media, they can significantly influence corporate decisions. I was watching ESPN this morning where they showed PETA protesting outside NFL offices in New York. Seeing that type of activity on the nightly news for any period of time will probably cause advertisers to bail, and the NFL &/or Atlanta to remove Vick from the equation. I'm not saying its right or wrong, just saying that even small special interest groups have realized that formula can work an can bring an uncomforatbly strong pressure on corporate america.