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Good grief....I couldn't give away K. Moreno if he held an extra t (1 Viewer)

Varmint

Varmint

Footballguy
I don't get it.

I couldn't GIVE him away ...even if he held an extra ticket for the last ship off a doomed planet!!

I'm not asking for the world but I've made at least 15 offers to teams to take Moreno off my hands!

I've already got P. Manning and W. Welker so I really don't need (or want) Denver's running game too!

I've offered him for TE's....#3 WR.....and backup RB's but NOBODY is biting!

Either he's worth FAR less than I thought he was when I picked him up in Week 1.....or the other owners are just screwing with me.

I picked him up assured that he'd separate himself from the other backs (which he has) and I have always meant to trade him.

Is asking for a player with a pulse asking too damn much or are they just screwing with me?

 
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Pretty interesting, considering this is a week when in my shallow-ish 10 team leagues guys like Bilal Powell, Willis McGahee and A. Ellington are flying off the shelves.

With Clady out for the season, DEN has an even greater need for a guy like Knowshown in the backfield. I'd say hold on to that 3rd DEN player on a team that scores 40/week.

 
Black said:
Pretty interesting, considering this is a week when in my shallow-ish 10 team leagues guys like Bilal Powell, Willis McGahee and A. Ellington are flying off the shelves.

With Clady out for the season, DEN has an even greater need for a guy like Knowshown in the backfield. I'd say hold on to that 3rd DEN player on a team that scores 40/week.
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I'd thought of that but I just don't like having so many players from the same team.

You're probably right thought.

Screw 'em.

I'll just hang onto him and see if they come to me after the Raider game.

 
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Moreno is one of those guys that much more valuable to the team that owns him to the other teams. I own Moreno a few places and really haven't even tried to sell him because I assumed this to be the case. People know his history and assume that it's only a matter of time before Ball takes over (I'm not so sure I believe that, personally).

 
I wouldnt want him either, tbh

But I mean... for the right price, sure...

You gotta remember, his history sucks

 
Join my league, I offered a second round pick in 2014 for him and couldn't get him. I upped the offer to Broyles and a 2nd and still got nothing

 
I knew that Moreno would separate himself based mainly on his ability to block and hang onto the ball.

Besides....he CAN motor when he has too.

My biggest worry was his health in the long term so I had planned to unload him as soon as he secured the starting job.

Like I said....I'll probably just ride the wave until it craps out.

 
ppls understand the concept of "selling high" more than ever

that's why you arent getting the bites. one performance isnt going to make ppl shake n bake like they used to

 
solorca said:
Moreno is one of those guys that much more valuable to the team that owns him to the other teams. I own Moreno a few places and really haven't even tried to sell him because I assumed this to be the case. People know his history and assume that it's only a matter of time before Ball takes over (I'm not so sure I believe that, personally).
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:goodposting:

 
I've already got P. Manning and W. Welker so I really don't need (or want) Denver's running game too!
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I don't get this logic. Denver looks like an unstaoppable O so I woudn't worry about too many eggs in the best basket. If teams try to shut down the passing game, then Peyton will lean on the running game like he did last week. With Peyton + Moreno you are guaranteeing yourself points for nearly every TD the highest scoring offense gets (with the exception of some TDs Ball may vulture).

 
In a different thread I asked the value and then ended up trading him. If you want to know the value in our league of Moreno, he is/was...

Moreno, Cutler for Kaep, Cook

The team getting Moreno had Pierre Thomas as a starter so they were in desperate need (they also had Matt Ryan).

 
I have never been a Bowe fan so I offered him up to our Moreno owner and he told me to go pound sand. Bowe had a big week last week and should go off tonight also.

 
This one just went down in a keep 12 between the Lacy/Jackson owners: D. Wilson,J.Rogers,Simpson, 2nd for Moreno,Starks,Boldin, 4th

 
People have an unreasoning hatred of Moreno. I was the only one the bid on him in our dynasty auction. Dude was #6 overall from the point he took over last year. People would rather cling to guys like Jon Franklin, Ingram and Woodhead... I don't get it.

 
I have Moreno as well and no one's willing to give up much. So I'm going to hold him.

Moreno has been labelled a bust in fantasy circles. He also has an injury history. On the plus side, he's a former 1st rounder, priority one is pass protection and he does everything (rushing, catching, blocking) pretty well but not great.

Ball is the shiny new rookie. Ball's a mediocre talent imo.

Most of the sites are backtracking on their projections for the rookie RBs now. Tends to happen every year, hype from the draft. Then reality sets in that the 5th-6th year guy has had time to learn the pro game and does the little things that allow him to beat out the rook.

 
"althe said:
People have an unreasoning hatred of Moreno. I was the only one the bid on him in our dynasty auction. Dude was #6 overall from the point he took over last year. People would rather cling to guys like Jon Franklin, Ingram and Woodhead... I don't get it.
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Agreed. I nominated Moreno during my league's auction and was shocked that nobody even bid. I got Moreno for $1.
 
Varmint said:
I don't get it.

I couldn't GIVE him away ...even if he held an extra ticket for the last ship off a doomed planet!!

I'm not asking for the world but I've made at least 15 offers to teams to take Moreno off my hands!

I've already got P. Manning and W. Welker so I really don't need (or want) Denver's running game too!

I've offered him for TE's....#3 WR.....and backup RB's but NOBODY is biting!

Either he's worth FAR less than I thought he was when I picked him up in Week 1.....or the other owners are just screwing with me.

I picked him up assured that he'd separate himself from the other backs (which he has) and I have always meant to trade him.

Is asking for a player with a pulse asking too damn much or are they just screwing with me?
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People hate giving up anything for pick ups. The reason being that you got Moreno essentially free only a week ago. They won't give you something they perceive as valuable for what you got for free.

Wait a few more weeks and this will be less fresh in their minds.

 
Seeing this in my leagues also. Its unjustified. People simply are thinking of too much of the past and the hope for Ball than they are reading what is happening in reality. Since about Week 12 of last season, Moreno has been a top 7-8 RB in ppr and people are still, for whatever reason, going out of their way to avoid him. Even in leagues where owners have RB injury issues, etc, they are being stubborn. Let them go down in flames. Moreno is a top 15 RB in ppr this year if he stays healthy. THere isn't going to be a change in Denver. They are rolling, they are protected,and Moreno has done absolutely nothing to give them a reason to change anything (and all Ball and Hillman have done is literally fumble away their opportunities).

Double down. Wait two more weeks and the price will be twice as high and some teams will be twice as desperate for a win.

 
Jewell said:
I've already got P. Manning and W. Welker so I really don't need (or want) Denver's running game too!
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I don't get this logic. Denver looks like an unstaoppable O so I woudn't worry about too many eggs in the best basket. If teams try to shut down the passing game, then Peyton will lean on the running game like he did last week. With Peyton + Moreno you are guaranteeing yourself points for nearly every TD the highest scoring offense gets (with the exception of some TDs Ball may vulture).
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Lowers your floor, but also limits your ceiling. Only so many points can be scored by one team each week. What if it is a big DT and JT day? Also... on the odd occurrence that there is a blizzard in Denver or for some reason they get shut down one week, it can really crush your team. It has to do with risk management and diversifying your portfolio.

 
I received a 2013 1st round pick for him and that was before they drafted Ball and after McGahee was released. It's hard to imagine his value his increased since then. He's in a timeshare and no one wants to invest in a player who's perceived value is low due to the perception that he won't be the starter by years end.

 
paytonsdaman said:
I received a 2013 1st round pick for him and that was before they drafted Ball and after McGahee was released. It's hard to imagine his value his increased since then. He's in a timeshare and no one wants to invest in a player who's perceived value is low due to the perception that he won't be the starter by years end.
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I never understand these ways of thinking. Unless it is a dynasty league and you're pulling a Browns, then what does it matter if you theorize that perhaps, maybe, there's a chance he won't be the starter at the end of the year? You don't know that any more than you know if Calvin won't go down for the year in Week 8 but what you do know is that you need him now and that it is all irrelevant if you don't win games now because you won't make it to the end of the season.

its like the lottery. Can't win if you don't play. You stand around and him-haw over this and you'll be 1-5 and you can forget your season. There are good top 10 RB points being scored right now. Use them to win games.

 
C-list starting RBs never get any interest in my league either. Hard to trade for a guy you would cringe about plugging into your lineup.

I'm sure if you were trying to move BJGE, D Richardson, Mathews, Mendenhall etc. you'd face the same uphill battle.

 
I just moved him this morning. I got Mike Wallace and Le'Veon Bell for Knowshon and Willis McGahee (throw in as I just picked him up yesterday and he holds some perceived value). Le'Veon can be kept next season should I choose at the cost of a 5th round pick.

Knowshon started the last 6 games of last season for Denver, and the first 2 games of this season for Denver. That is 8 games which equals exactly half of a season.

2012 (started last 6 games)

  • ​He averaged 13.96 pts per game in non-ppr leagues
  • 17.3 points per game in PPR leagues
2013 (started first 2 games)

  • 14.6 points per game in non-ppr leagues
  • 17.6 points per game in PPR leagues
So in exactly a half of one season as a starter (8 consecutuve games over 2 years) he has averaged 14.12 ppg in standard leagues, and 17.38 ppg in PPR leagues.

To put that in perspective, if he played all 16 games last year at that pace, he would have been the #6 overall scoring RB in 2012. Now most RBs miss some time each year with a bump or bruise, or ankle, etc. So lets say he only played 14 games at that pace ... he still would have finished RB #12 last season.

No matter how you slice it ... he is a RB #1 in fantasy so long as he is starting for Denver.

 
If you own Moreno and want to deal him....I would first look to the owner of Ball, who probably wasted a 4th or 5th round pick on him.....outside of that, I agree that you are not likely to get many takers.

I find that early in the season, owners tend to use draft position to gauge a players value, rather than performance. So, a guy like Moreno, who you grabbed in the 10th round or somewhere close to this....doesn't have much value early in the season because owners can't get over the round he was drafted.

 
Moreno isn't out there because of he's the most talented back on the roster. He's out there because he is dependable in pass protection, and he hasn't been a fumbler in his recent history.

He's got a 2013 2nd round pick and a 2012 3rd round pick breathing down his neck. If either one of those two puts it together, Moreno's value could tank in an instant. In addition to that, he's got an extensive injury history himself. It's sort of the double whammy of lack of job security.

From Rotoworld yesterday:

The Denver Post says the Broncos never thought Montee Ball "would be hitting his stride until the Week 5-8 range."
Through two games, Ball has rushed 20 times for just 40 yards (2.0 YPC) and lost a fumble in the red-zone. Meanwhile, Knowshon Moreno has seized the feature back job with superior reliability and a 22/121/2 line. We still wouldn't completely give up on Ball. Moreno's burst is sapped despite his gaudy 5.5 YPC, meaning he's not a lock to dominate this committee all year. Sep 18 - 10:53 AM
Source: Denver Post

 
davearm said:
C-list starting RBs never get any interest in my league either. Hard to trade for a guy you would cringe about plugging into your lineup.

I'm sure if you were trying to move BJGE, D Richardson, Mathews, Mendenhall etc. you'd face the same uphill battle.
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The only thing that makes your analogy idiotic is that Moreno has more points than those four combined.

 
Hold on to him, as long as the Broncos are winning they're not going to switch up Running Backs. And the Broncos Offense is a great place for a Running Back to find himself.

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Moreno isn't out there because of he's the most talented back on the roster. He's out there because he is dependable in pass protection, and he hasn't been a fumbler in his recent history.

He's got a 2013 2nd round pick and a 2012 3rd round pick breathing down his neck. If either one of those two puts it together, Moreno's value could tank in an instant. In addition to that, he's got an extensive injury history himself. It's sort of the double whammy of lack of job security.

From Rotoworld yesterday:

The Denver Post says the Broncos never thought Montee Ball "would be hitting his stride until the Week 5-8 range."
Through two games, Ball has rushed 20 times for just 40 yards (2.0 YPC) and lost a fumble in the red-zone. Meanwhile, Knowshon Moreno has seized the feature back job with superior reliability and a 22/121/2 line. We still wouldn't completely give up on Ball. Moreno's burst is sapped despite his gaudy 5.5 YPC, meaning he's not a lock to dominate this committee all year. Sep 18 - 10:53 AM
Source: Denver Post
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Mindsets like these are what keep owners from making a good trade when a good player is offered to them. Opportunity is half the equation, at least, in Fantasy and that's the part some people are missing. They are still stuck in April, talking about talent and beast and upside when they should be looking at what the real -lif team is doing. The Broncos are using the guy that is helping them win. Talent doesn't live here. Aaron Hernandez has talent but no opportunity. That is why he scored zero points the first two weeks. Moreno has opportunity and talent. We can argue degree of talent all day but it is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is opportunity + existing talent= #8RB in fantasy. If people won't or can't see that, then. Le sigh....

 
Isotopes said:
If you own Moreno and want to deal him....I would first look to the owner of Ball, who probably wasted a 4th or 5th round pick on him.....outside of that, I agree that you are not likely to get many takers.

I find that early in the season, owners tend to use draft position to gauge a players value, rather than performance. So, a guy like Moreno, who you grabbed in the 10th round or somewhere close to this....doesn't have much value early in the season because owners can't get over the round he was drafted.
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Ball owners don't want him because they can't bring themselves to eating the amount of humble pie it would take for them to admit that they seriously overpaid for Ball when they could have been watching what was going on in Denver. They will cut off their nose to spite their face before they will touch him because they are convinced (or at least hope) that this will flip and if they have both, they aknowledge a mistake one way or the other. They would rather be dead wrong (and foolish) than hedge a bet of this scale.

 
Moreno was traded today for Bernard Pierce in a 32 team dynasty league . Same owner offered Moreno to me for Amendola but I didn't accept.

 
Well, some of the best deals are the ones you never make. I don't understand the logic of someone not seeing the value in Moreno. It's the situation, Stupid. It's so obvious that Hillman is a zero threat - what was he in on, 2 plays last game? Ball, 13 carries for 16 yards? Moreno, more effective running right now, more reliable holding on to the ball, better receiver, 10X better pass blocker. He just has to stay healthy to be a solid RB2 the rest of the year. Ask Ridley and Wilson owners if they'd take that certainty right now. Other owners of RB 2's (SJax/Bush/Lacy/DRich) are feeling injury pain - there are no guarantees there. Right now Moreno is walking upright.

If I dealt him it would only be for a Ridley type in a package. I'm solid at receiver but it would take a very good WR2 for me to think about moving him, and probably not then. I'm talking VJax tier.

 
Shutout said:
Isotopes said:
If you own Moreno and want to deal him....I would first look to the owner of Ball, who probably wasted a 4th or 5th round pick on him.....outside of that, I agree that you are not likely to get many takers.

I find that early in the season, owners tend to use draft position to gauge a players value, rather than performance. So, a guy like Moreno, who you grabbed in the 10th round or somewhere close to this....doesn't have much value early in the season because owners can't get over the round he was drafted.
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Ball owners don't want him because they can't bring themselves to eating the amount of humble pie it would take for them to admit that they seriously overpaid for Ball when they could have been watching what was going on in Denver. They will cut off their nose to spite their face before they will touch him because they are convinced (or at least hope) that this will flip and if they have both, they aknowledge a mistake one way or the other. They would rather be dead wrong (and foolish) than hedge a bet of this scale.
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I can't speak for other people, but as a ball owner in one dynasty league who was as high on him as anyone this summer, I still traded for knowshon, and now have knowshon in three of my four leagues. I always believed in the denver rb situation. I like ball and still believe in him as the long term answer. But I'm a pragmatist and believe that moreno is the guy who holds one of the most valuable positions in ff. I would gladly trade for him if I could get him relatively cheaply, and even moreso in a league where I already owned ball.
 
Good point smails, i am a ridley & Wilson owner and i am thankful to have moreno. I had to start him out of necessity and it has worked out so far. Just hoping the wheels dont fall off.

 
Some leagues are just ultra-cautious.

Other league have owners that just aren't as up to speed on football goings on.

Either scenario could mean not being able to get a nibble on Knowshon.

 
With the Clady injury, I'm going to advice you to hold onto Moreno for a myriad of reasons.

Den is going to be moving to more 2 TE sets which will help the running game (look what happened with Moreno after Clady went down vs. NYG).

Furthermore, Moreno is the superior pass blocker and you better believe DEN is going to lean on him to supplement Clark with chips blocks and etc. Keeping Manning upright was and is still their primary objective.

I like Moreno long term and would be looking to deal FOR him.

 
CariocaSean said:
Varmint said:
I don't get it.

I couldn't GIVE him away ...even if he held an extra ticket for the last ship off a doomed planet!!

I'm not asking for the world but I've made at least 15 offers to teams to take Moreno off my hands!

I've already got P. Manning and W. Welker so I really don't need (or want) Denver's running game too!

I've offered him for TE's....#3 WR.....and backup RB's but NOBODY is biting!

Either he's worth FAR less than I thought he was when I picked him up in Week 1.....or the other owners are just screwing with me.

I picked him up assured that he'd separate himself from the other backs (which he has) and I have always meant to trade him.

Is asking for a player with a pulse asking too damn much or are they just screwing with me?
Click to expand...
People hate giving up anything for pick ups. The reason being that you got Moreno essentially free only a week ago. They won't give you something they perceive as valuable for what you got for free.

Wait a few more weeks and this will be less fresh in their minds.
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This is a good point. A lot of times you will have resentment because people are focused on what they/you paid for your respective players instead of the actual value...especially early on in the season when you are not far removed from the draft.

 
Moreno's locked in as a RB2. Where he was drafted or where Ball was drafted has no bearing on what his value is right now. He's in the same tier as the Ridley/SJax (when healthy) types.

 
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