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GOP Censures Cheney and Kinzinger - thoughts? (1 Viewer)

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
Copy of Resolution

WHEREAS, The primary mission of the Republican Party is to elect Republicans who support the
United States Constitution and share our values;

WHEREAS, The Biden Administration and Democrats in Congress have embarked on
systematic effort to replace liberty with socialism; eliminate border security in favor of lawless,
open borders; create record inflation designed to steal the American dream from our children and
grandchildren; neuter our national defense and a peace through strength foreign policy; replace
President Trump's "Operation Warp Speed" with incompetence and illegal mandates; and destroy
America's economy with the Green New Deal;

WHEREAS, Winning back the majority in Congress, including the United States House of
Representatives, in 2022 must be the primary goal of the House Republican Conference
("Conference") and requires all Republicans working together to accomplish the same;

WHEREAS, The Conference must design the strategy to stop the radical Biden agenda and retire
Nancy Pelosi, tasks which require that all Republicans pull in the same direction;

WHEREAS, The Conference must not be sabotaged by Representatives Liz Cheney and Adam
Kinzinger who have demonstrated, with actions and words, that they support Democrat efforts to
destroy President Trump more than they support winning back a Republican majority in 2022;

WHEREAS, Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger have engaged in actions in their positions as
members of the January 6th Select Committee not befitting Republican members of Congress,
which include the Committee's disregard for minority rights, traditional checks and balances, due
process, and adherence to other precedent and rules of the U.S. House and which seem intent on
advancing a political agenda to buoy the Democrat Party's bleak prospects in the upcoming
midterm elections;

WHEREAS, Congressional Republicans bear ultimate responsibility for their own success or
failure and the NC supports their efforts by denouncing those who deliberately jeopardize
victory in November on which the future of our constitutional republic depends at this critical
moment in history;

WHEREAS, Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger purport to be members of the Republican
Party; and

WHEREAS, RepresentativesCheney and Kinzinger are participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse, and they are both utilizing their past professed political affiliation to mask Democrat abuse of prosecutorial power for partisan purposes, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the Republican National Committee hereby formally censures Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois and shall immediately cease any and all support of them as members of the Republican Party for their behavior which has been destructive to the institution of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Republican Party and our republic, and is inconsistent with the position of the Conference.

Was this the right move for the GOP?  

If you support the GOP - do you support the censure, and withdrawal of GOP support for both representatives?

At the end of the day, this was really about money - and the ability for the GOP to financially support primary challengers who would better support Trump's agenda.  But, what does that say about the party as a whole?  

Is it really Party over Country?  It seems both parties should be a bit more open-minded with their members - I don't like that the Arizona Dem Party censured Sinema - but that is really just a protest move by a state party.  This seems to have a more far-reaching impact.

 
Do you have an opinion on that?


Seems ugly. My opinion would be mostly in line with CNN here.

The move to censure Cheney and Kinzinger, of Illinois, is unprecedented, and marks the first time the national party has rebuked an incumbent congressional Republican -- much less two -- with a formal censure backed by its members. When the resolution was introduced Friday to all 168 RNC members, it was described as a motion "to no longer support [Cheney and Kinzinger] as members of the Republican Party."

Despite the resolution's passage, there were a few vocal opponents in the room Friday.

"I think the whole censure thing is a slippery slope. Are we going to censure Marc Short for showing up to testify before the committee? Are we going to censure Mike Pence if he cooperates?" said New Jersey committeeman Bill Palatucci, referring to the former vice president and his chief of staff, who recently met with the House Jan. 6 panel following a subpoena.

Prior to the vote, RNC members pushed to have the resolution watered down to remove language calling for Cheney and Kinzinger's expulsion from the House GOP Conference -- a strictly symbolic measure given that the party does not have the authority to decide who does or does not serve in Congress.

"Some people felt it was too harsh," said Jonathan Barnett, a co-sponsor of the resolution and Arkansas committeeman.

 
WHEREAS, RepresentativesCheney and Kinzinger are participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse, and they are both utilizing their past professed political affiliation to mask Democrat abuse of prosecutorial power for partisan purposes
Who are these “ordinary citizens”? I’m confused.

 
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WHEREAS, The Biden Administration and Democrats in Congress have embarked on
systematic effort to replace liberty with socialism; eliminate border security in favor of lawless,
open borders; create record inflation designed to steal the American dream from our children and
grandchildren; neuter our national defense and a peace through strength foreign policy
I continue to believe that the biggest problem with our political discourse is hyperbole. That goes for both politicians and normal folks.

 
They were censured for participating in the January 6 Committee.  

But the larger question is about a party censuring members who do not tow the line.  Is that healthy for the party?  Or, does that close off people from joining in the first place?

Where do you draw the line - in terms of disagreeing with a party platform?

As I said, I am not a fan of Sinema or Manchin, but they are elected by the people, and can/should vote what they think their constituents support.  Yes, that hurts the Democratic Agenda - but, at the same time, its better overall to have a wider breadth of positions within a party.  Neither party has a monopoly on solutions here.  

 
Seems like those who argue Spotify shouldn't censor content and that "people should just change the channel" would be more supportive of letting others discuss what they wish?


If I understood the request, it's nothing to do with not letting people discuss things. It's do we need multiple threads covering mostly the same topic. That's just general good practice for forums. And we do that everywhere. Especially in the Shark Pool forums on NFL talk. Just makes for a better forum. 

 
Seems like those who argue Spotify shouldn't censor content and that "people should just change the channel" would be more supportive of letting others discuss what they wish


I know you know this, but no one is asking anyone to be censured here.  Or is asking anyone to not speak their mind.

 
I presume that the Committee's "disregard for minority rights" refers to Republicans as the aggrieved minority.

I'm not too perturbed by this censure. It confirms exactly what the GOP is these days.

 
Seems like those who argue Spotify shouldn't censor content and that "people should just change the channel" would be more supportive of letting others discuss what they wish?
One of these days, somebody will sign up for this forum and loudly argue that the owners should not be allowed to moderate their platform.  You and that guy are going to have some really epic debates.

 
If I understood the request, it's nothing to do with not letting people discuss things. It's do we need multiple threads covering mostly the same topic. That's just general good practice for forums. And we do that everywhere. Especially in the Shark Pool forums on NFL talk. Just makes for a better forum. 


When there are separate issues that arise from a single topic - burying them in a large hodgepodge thread, discourages meaningful conversations and makes for a worse forum.

The idea of the GOP censuring members, and specifically calling the January 6 Committee "persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse," - should not be buried in the thread started specifically to talk about the charges faced by people who participated in the events of January 6.  That was a very narrowly tailored thread.

 
WHEREAS, RepresentativesCheney and Kinzinger are participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse, and they are both utilizing their past professed political affiliation to mask Democrat abuse of prosecutorial power for partisan purposes
Who are these “ordinary citizens”? I’m confused
I would love one example of the bolded, if "legitimate political discourse" wasn't meant to mean the rioters and those who organized the overturning of an election.

 
Just to add soem quotes from RNC member who started this whole thing

David Bossie, an RNC member from Maryland and an architect of the resolution, suggested that the committee couldn’t ignore what he described as Cheney and Kinzinger’s egregious actions.

"The committee overwhelmingly supported this resolution because of what they have done to empower Nancy Pelosi and to continue her reign of terror over the American people," Bossie said. "It has nothing to do with anything but what Cheney and Kinzinger chose to do, which is to be Pelosi puppets."

 
It's a doo doo show. 

You have a chance to take the majority back--ad we're censuring our own and announcing we'll no longer support them.  That's just bad strategy.

We're doing it because they dare join a committee and investigate other Republicans.  How dare they promote accountability?!  Just absolutely awful optics.  

And the fact they called this legitimate political discourse, just wow.  

 
Just to add soem quotes from RNC member who started this whole thing

David Bossie, an RNC member from Maryland and an architect of the resolution, suggested that the committee couldn’t ignore what he described as Cheney and Kinzinger’s egregious actions.

"The committee overwhelmingly supported this resolution because of what they have done to empower Nancy Pelosi and to continue her reign of terror over the American people," Bossie said. "It has nothing to do with anything but what Cheney and Kinzinger chose to do, which is to be Pelosi puppets."
It's pretty cool that I have been suffering under a reign of terror, and can still go to the gym.

 
The part of the resolution that stands out most to me is to no longer provide party support for Cheney and Kinzinger.  It isn’t just a scolding for participation in the 1/6 Select Committee, it’s a declaration that by the end of the year they won’t be in the party anymore.

Cheney and Kinzinger aren’t newcomers or outliers.  A year ago Cheney was the highest-ranking woman in House GOP hierarchy.  Kinzinger has been in Congress for over a decade and always won re-election easily.  Their voting records were models of support for the party line and agenda.  (ETA: up until the part where they voted for the second impeachment, of course.  When Trump was in office, both of them voted with Trump over 90% of the time.)

Compared to how the party has also recently stood behind Congressmen like Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins who running for re-election despite facing felony charges, or however you want to describe the investigation Matt Gaetz’s name keeps popping up in, it’s really disappointing to see the GOP draw the line on Cheney and Kinzinger here compared to all else this era of the GOP is willing to forgive if you’re loyal to Trump.
 

 
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If I understood the request, it's nothing to do with not letting people discuss things. It's do we need multiple threads covering mostly the same topic. That's just general good practice for forums. And we do that everywhere. Especially in the Shark Pool forums on NFL talk. Just makes for a better forum. 
I'm going to disagree when it comes to these specific threads. The J6 Defendants thread deals with those individuals, their specific charges, and how each of those cases is progressing through the courts. That's important to keep separate from the J6 Select Committee thread which deals with how that Committee is progressing through all the (ever increasing) evidence they need to review in order to find out how it ever got to that place on J6 in the first place. This thread is specifically posing questions in relation to yesterday's unique resolution to censure 2 members of a party on a federal (not State) level. These threads need to remain separate. I appreciate each of them, specifically for the different avenues of discussion. 

 
Just to add soem quotes from RNC member who started this whole thing

David Bossie, an RNC member from Maryland and an architect of the resolution, suggested that the committee couldn’t ignore what he described as Cheney and Kinzinger’s egregious actions.

"The committee overwhelmingly supported this resolution because of what they have done to empower Nancy Pelosi and to continue her reign of terror over the American people," Bossie said. "It has nothing to do with anything but what Cheney and Kinzinger chose to do, which is to be Pelosi puppets."
Worth mentioning the resolution that was passed was a watered-down version from what the resolution committee initially produced.  They were ready to remove Cheney and Kinzinger from the House Republican Conference over their continued participation in the 1/6 Committee.  It was negotiated down to the “you can stay in the party, but you’re not really one of us” language that passed.

 
Copy of Resolution

WHEREAS, The primary mission of the Republican Party is to elect Republicans who support the
United States Constitution and share our values;

WHEREAS, The Biden Administration and Democrats in Congress have embarked on
systematic effort to replace liberty with socialism; eliminate border security in favor of lawless,
open borders; create record inflation designed to steal the American dream from our children and
grandchildren; neuter our national defense and a peace through strength foreign policy; replace
President Trump's "Operation Warp Speed" with incompetence and illegal mandates; and destroy
America's economy with the Green New Deal;

WHEREAS, Winning back the majority in Congress, including the United States House of
Representatives, in 2022 must be the primary goal of the House Republican Conference
("Conference") and requires all Republicans working together to accomplish the same;

WHEREAS, The Conference must design the strategy to stop the radical Biden agenda and retire
Nancy Pelosi, tasks which require that all Republicans pull in the same direction;

WHEREAS, The Conference must not be sabotaged by Representatives Liz Cheney and Adam
Kinzinger who have demonstrated, with actions and words, that they support Democrat efforts to
destroy President Trump more than they support winning back a Republican majority in 2022;

WHEREAS, Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger have engaged in actions in their positions as
members of the January 6th Select Committee not befitting Republican members of Congress,
which include the Committee's disregard for minority rights, traditional checks and balances, due
process, and adherence to other precedent and rules of the U.S. House and which seem intent on
advancing a political agenda to buoy the Democrat Party's bleak prospects in the upcoming
midterm elections;

WHEREAS, Congressional Republicans bear ultimate responsibility for their own success or
failure and the NC supports their efforts by denouncing those who deliberately jeopardize
victory in November on which the future of our constitutional republic depends at this critical
moment in history;

WHEREAS, Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger purport to be members of the Republican
Party; and

WHEREAS, RepresentativesCheney and Kinzinger are participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse, and they are both utilizing their past professed political affiliation to mask Democrat abuse of prosecutorial power for partisan purposes, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the Republican National Committee hereby formally censures Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois and shall immediately cease any and all support of them as members of the Republican Party for their behavior which has been destructive to the institution of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Republican Party and our republic, and is inconsistent with the position of the Conference.

Was this the right move for the GOP?  

If you support the GOP - do you support the censure, and withdrawal of GOP support for both representatives?

At the end of the day, this was really about money - and the ability for the GOP to financially support primary challengers who would better support Trump's agenda.  But, what does that say about the party as a whole?  

Is it really Party over Country?  It seems both parties should be a bit more open-minded with their members - I don't like that the Arizona Dem Party censured Sinema - but that is really just a protest move by a state party.  This seems to have a more far-reaching impact.
 The answer to this is yes.  As you pointed out, this is the state of US politics from both parties.  

 
WHEREAS, The Biden Administration and Democrats in Congress have embarked on
systematic effort to replace liberty with socialism; eliminate border security in favor of lawless,
open borders; create record inflation designed to steal the American dream from our children and
grandchildren; neuter our national defense and a peace through strength foreign policy; replace
President Trump's "Operation Warp Speed" with incompetence and illegal mandates; and destroy
America's economy with the Green New Deal;


Yes, I know it is political speech and therefore hyperbolic and not intended to be factually correct.  But man I really hate seeing the above.  So utterly divisive - no meeting in the middle if you think this way.  I may dislike some D policies as being misguided.  But I do not believe one bit that there is a systematic effort aimed at bringing about the global revolution.

Perhaps both parties, in their resolutions, always talk like this?  If so, that is very sad.  But the above is Trump-sock-puppet level.  I feel bad for the signatories.

 
Amazingly stupid move by the GOP. 
I don’t think it’s going to hurt them in 2022 or 2024.  This is where the GOP is and wants to go.  They already made it clear if you wanted party support in the 2022 and 2024 campaigns, you can’t say Biden legitimately won the election.  Trump loyalists from all over the country started showing up in Wyoming to drum up support for a primary challenge for Cheney months ago.  

 
I don’t think it’s going to hurt them in 2022 or 2024.  This is where the GOP is and wants to go.  They already made it clear if you wanted party support in the 2022 and 2024 campaigns, you can’t say Biden legitimately won the election.  Trump loyalists from all over the country started showing up in Wyoming to drum up support for a primary challenge for Cheney months ago.  
Politically they could achieve the same end without doing this I think.

 
You can google as easily as I can I assume. That's all I'm doing. But one has to actually read the article and not just the headlines. 

From CNN:

But I get it lots of people would much prefer to ignore the actual article and details and stick with the headlines. It's how most tribal politics works these days and it's discouraging. 


:lmao:

They had some very good lawyers carefully craft, and release a censure resolution.  This was not some fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants ad-lib speaking resolution.  They said what they meant, and they meant what they said.

 
Politically they could achieve the same end without doing this I think.
How?  Their political end is white nationalist authoritarianism.  Purging the non-authoritarians from the party is an important step forward if they want to make this happen.

I mean, maybe in some alternate universe they have to put up with people like Liz Cheney to maintain a governing majority.  But they're going to have a bunch of extra house and senate members in just a year from now anyway, so they probably feel like they can afford to do some housekeeping.

(The Democrats are about a cycle and a half away from this point themselves.  I figure they'll officially lose it a year or so into Trump Part II or DeSantis Part I.)

 
I don’t think it’s going to hurt them in 2022 or 2024.  This is where the GOP is and wants to go.


I think that remains to be seen.  I think there is a sizable minority of the GOP who prefer the Pence's side of the party to the Trump side of the party.

 
I think that remains to be seen.  I think there is a sizable minority of the GOP who prefer the Pence's side of the party to the Trump side of the party.
I recently heard a claim made that there are more citizens who consider themselves Independent than there are Democrats or Republicans. I don’t know about this claim but they are a significant force who are who they are in large part because they are tired of the partisanship of both parties.  I don’t see it making much difference amongst those that have remained with the GOP but with the entire electorate and Independents I think this censure is harmful.

 
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How?  Their political end is white nationalist authoritarianism.  Purging the non-authoritarians from the party is an important step forward if they want to make this happen.

I mean, maybe in some alternate universe they have to put up with people like Liz Cheney to maintain a governing majority.  But they're going to have a bunch of extra house and senate members in just a year from now anyway, so they probably feel like they can afford to do some housekeeping.

(The Democrats are about a cycle and a half away from this point themselves.  I figure they'll officially lose it a year or so into Trump Part II or DeSantis Part I.)
Just not sure what it adds for them. If they win the House back things like this committee will never happen.

From a purely winning elections point of view they could just not support Cheney (I think Kissinger said he isn’t running again already).

GOP candidates in areas where they lap this stuff up are still free to engage in these extreme viewpoints. But, they could also allow candidates in moderate areas to talk about more traditional GOP topics - taxes, “socialism”, big government, etc and not get drawn into MAGA election nonsense. 

This specific action will probably be forgotten about in a couple weeks anyway so probably doesn’t matter anyway I suppose. 

 
From a purely winning elections point of view they could just not support Cheney (I think Kissinger said he isn’t running again already).


I might have misread something - but I do think one of the underlying goals of the censure was to allow the national party and/or the GOP conference in the House to financially support other candidates.  Maybe something in their by-laws prevented financial support to non-incumbent challengers.

 
I might have misread something - but I do think one of the underlying goals of the censure was to allow the national party and/or the GOP conference in the House to financially support other candidates.  Maybe something in their by-laws prevented financial support to non-incumbent challengers.
If that’s right it makes more sense to do this. 

 
Just not sure what it adds for them. If they win the House back things like this committee will never happen.

From a purely winning elections point of view they could just not support Cheney (I think Kissinger said he isn’t running again already).

GOP candidates in areas where they lap this stuff up are still free to engage in these extreme viewpoints. But, they could also allow candidates in moderate areas to talk about more traditional GOP topics - taxes, “socialism”, big government, etc and not get drawn into MAGA election nonsense. 

This specific action will probably be forgotten about in a couple weeks anyway so probably doesn’t matter anyway I suppose. 
Maybe, but I think you're fundamentally misreading the goals of the people who are leading the Republican party these days.  They're not putting with the MAGA people because they want to build a coalition that reduces the capital gains tax or something.  They MAGA people are the base, and they're tired of putting up with the nerds who want to worry about stupid stuff like capital gains taxes when there are libs to be owned.  

The Democrats still have a kind-of normal-looking coalition, where the adults like Pelosi put up with the crazies in their midst because they need their votes.  The crazies took control of the GOP 5+ years ago, and they've been steadily purging everybody else for a while now.  Maybe I'm just more plugged into this than others because I'm adjacent to other right-wingers, but this isn't a new development.

 
Go back and watch what was actually said at the rally. 

It's not remotely close to "legitimate political discourse".  You could take away the violent part of the insurrection and you're still left with an attempt to overturn a free and fair election. 

The entire premise is illegitimate -- and we know because we have the plan to overthrow President Biden in writing from President Trump's stooges.

 
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:lmao:

They had some very good lawyers carefully craft, and release a censure resolution.  This was not some fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants ad-lib speaking resolution.  They said what they meant, and they meant what they said.
Joe Bryant’s condescension towards people who didn’t read the entire article while ignoring the actual content of the resolution was a weird flex, but OK.

You raise a good point about the standard this resolution should held against.  If this was an individual candidate getting wrapped up in the emotion of an event and spoke ambiguously off the cuff, sure that happens.  If it’s out of character for the individual, give them a pass.  

This resolution was worked on for days, and passed a subcommittee vote the day before it was sent to the full group for a vote.  They deserve to be held accountable as if the language of the resolution was complete and intentional.

 
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Maybe, but I think you're fundamentally misreading the goals of the people who are leading the Republican party these days.  They're not putting with the MAGA people because they want to build a coalition that reduces the capital gains tax or something.  They MAGA people are the base, and they're tired of putting up with the nerds who want to worry about stupid stuff like capital gains taxes when there are libs to be owned.  

The Democrats still have a kind-of normal-looking coalition, where the adults like Pelosi put up with the crazies in their midst because they need their votes.  The crazies took control of the GOP 5+ years ago, and they've been steadily purging everybody else for a while now.  Maybe I'm just more plugged into this than others because I'm adjacent to other right-wingers, but this isn't a new development.
Man. Depressing stuff.

I’ll vote for a Mitt Romney right now to make it stop :lol:  

 
One of these days, somebody will sign up for this forum and loudly argue that the owners should not be allowed to moderate their platform.  You and that guy are going to have some really epic debates.
Either the debate is about what is allowed to be done, in which case, you've been wrong repeatedly, or the debate is about what people "should" do or want done.  If it's the latter, then the people arguing loudest that Spotify "shouldn't" do something should probably refrain from suggesting that others do the exact same thing.

 
Either the debate is about what is allowed to be done, in which case, you've been wrong repeatedly, 
What?  I agree with you on what private actors are allowed to do.

or the debate is about what people "should" do or want done.  If it's the latter, then the people arguing loudest that Spotify "shouldn't" do something should probably refrain from suggesting that others do the exact same thing.
It is, and I agree.  

I'm baffled as to who you think you're arguing with.  Or why.

 
I think that remains to be seen.  I think there is a sizable minority of the GOP who prefer the Pence's side of the party to the Trump side of the party.
For the future of representative democracy in the United States, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.  My skepticism is from seeing many Republican leaders the last few years make statements like Pence made yesterday, and seeing them either get removed from positions of power within the party or refute their own statements a few days later.  

Pence has probably figured out if Trump is the GOP nominee in 2024, Pence won’t be the VP.  So he has a little more freedom to speak his mind than he did 15 months ago.

 
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Maybe, but I think you're fundamentally misreading the goals of the people who are leading the Republican party these days.  They're not putting with the MAGA people because they want to build a coalition that reduces the capital gains tax or something.  They MAGA people are the base, and they're tired of putting up with the nerds who want to worry about stupid stuff like capital gains taxes when there are libs to be owned.  

The Democrats still have a kind-of normal-looking coalition, where the adults like Pelosi put up with the crazies in their midst because they need their votes.  The crazies took control of the GOP 5+ years ago, and they've been steadily purging everybody else for a while now.  Maybe I'm just more plugged into this than others because I'm adjacent to other right-wingers, but this isn't a new development.
Excellent post.  

 
It's a doo doo show. 

You have a chance to take the majority back--ad we're censuring our own and announcing we'll no longer support them.  That's just bad strategy.

We're doing it because they dare join a committee and investigate other Republicans.  How dare they promote accountability?!  Just absolutely awful optics.  

And the fact they called this legitimate political discourse, just wow.  
Sorry GB....youre on the outside looking in with that group. There is no "we" there for you. Youre a RINO in this era of politics. That said.....WELCOME to the group!!!

 
It's a doo doo show. 

You have a chance to take the majority back--ad we're censuring our own and announcing we'll no longer support them.  That's just bad strategy.

We're doing it because they dare join a committee and investigate other Republicans.  How dare they promote accountability?!  Just absolutely awful optics.  

And the fact they called this legitimate political discourse, just wow.  
Exactly.  I said it last night, in one of the 37 J6 threads that I guess are all now one big mix tape, that both these parties seem hell bent on  self destruction.  It’s unreal how hard the both seem to be pushing away the middle.  

 

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