Government employee thread! (Being a government employee is sweet) (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

Hi @Ministry of Pain

I'm sorry but I don't understand the questions. Are they for me?

I see this question: "How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?" but I don't understand. Who said I'm accepting of anything? Of course, it's traumatic when people lose their jobs or are uncertain about their job.

And, Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?", I'd say of course. I think most everyone is for eliminating waste but also feel concern or compassion for people losing jobs.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Might as well call this thread the new PSF

Really don’t want to see this thread shut down. As is often the case, this thread is a tremendous source of real-life info on a timely topic.

The answer isn’t shutting down the topic. It is giving cascading consequences to folks who can’t control their own impulses and behaviors.

That always sounds nice until half a dozen popular posters are suspended and then that creates all kinds of problems and they post about it for years. It's always the "other" person that went over the line while "they" are being unfairly persecuted. It's exhausting and discouraging some people ignore what we repeatedly ask.

Understood. Didn’t mean to seem critical of you or the mods. We’ve all seen firsthand how impossible this can be.

Really hate to see good threads shut down. And it does give me mini-ptsd from junior high when the whole class stayed late because two kids (Arch and Jerry) consistently acted out. It happened 6-8 times in 2 months. My dad finally came to the teacher and said “if my son misses the bus one more time for doing nothing wrong, because 2 kids are little jacka$$es, I’m coming down here to put a stop to it.”

Never had an issue again. The beauty of a Vietnam vet dad. Good times.

Anyway, thanks for letting us try to keep these topics going.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Might as well call this thread the new PSF

Really don’t want to see this thread shut down. As is often the case, this thread is a tremendous source of real-life info on a timely topic.

The answer isn’t shutting down the topic. It is giving cascading consequences to folks who can’t control their own impulses and behaviors.

That always sounds nice until half a dozen popular posters are suspended and then that creates all kinds of problems and they post about it for years. It's always the "other" person that went over the line while "they" are being unfairly persecuted. It's exhausting and discouraging some people ignore what we repeatedly ask.

Understood. Didn’t mean to seem critical of you or the mods. We’ve all seen firsthand how impossible this can be.

Really hate to see good threads shut down. And it does give me mini-ptsd from junior high when the whole class stayed late because two kids (Arch and Jerry) consistently acted out. It happened 6-8 times in 2 months. My dad finally came to the teacher and said “if my son misses the bus one more time for doing nothing wrong, because 2 kids are little jacka$$es, I’m coming down here to put a stop to it.”

Never had an issue again. The beauty of a Vietnam vet dad. Good times.

Anyway, thanks for letting us try to keep these topics going.

Understood. The big difference here is it's not just a couple of people. And we're not in Junior High.

 

[lakerstan]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Might as well call this thread the new PSF

Really don’t want to see this thread shut down. As is often the case, this thread is a tremendous source of real-life info on a timely topic.

The answer isn’t shutting down the topic. It is giving cascading consequences to folks who can’t control their own impulses and behaviors.

That always sounds nice until half a dozen popular posters are suspended and then that creates all kinds of problems and they post about it for years. It's always the "other" person that went over the line while "they" are being unfairly persecuted. It's exhausting and discouraging some people ignore what we repeatedly ask.

Understood. Didn’t mean to seem critical of you or the mods. We’ve all seen firsthand how impossible this can be.

Really hate to see good threads shut down. And it does give me mini-ptsd from junior high when the whole class stayed late because two kids (Arch and Jerry) consistently acted out. It happened 6-8 times in 2 months. My dad finally came to the teacher and said “if my son misses the bus one more time for doing nothing wrong, because 2 kids are little jacka$$es, I’m coming down here to put a stop to it.”

Never had an issue again. The beauty of a Vietnam vet dad. Good times.

Anyway, thanks for letting us try to keep these topics going.

Understood. The big difference here is it's not just a couple of people. And we're not in Junior High.

No doubt - sad but true

And hey, at times it still feels like junior high

 

[fruity pebbles]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

I think it should largely be. Large layoffs have been happening in the private sector for a couple years now with no notice or recourse and like you said nobody cared. Is it the process or the layoffs themselves in government that are causing people to be up in arms?

 

[djmich]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

I think it should largely be. Large layoffs have been happening in the private sector for a couple years now with no notice or recourse and like you said nobody cared. Is it the process or the layoffs themselves in government that are causing people to be up in arms?

Varies by individual, its certainly a combination of both for many. Process, people, politics. Last one is why we need to move on here on this forum.

 

[ghostguy123]

..with t

I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

Until a better system comes along, it's the best we got.

 

[titusbramble]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

 

[djmich]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

It feels like crap when you're a solid contributor and consultants or any outsider comes in and in their typically unfeeling fashion make you justify your existence and prove you're not a grifter. Heck, people who work for me can bristle when I ask them to demonstrate to me what they're delivering. Everyone thinks they kick *** and that should just be known and accepted.

To your point. Giving someone a day to recap what they did last week with five bullets (with no other meaningful requirements) sure feels like in a vacuum not a big ask at all. Mix in politics and it is at a lot noiser than it would be in the non-governmental world.

 

[the moops]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks. And it is most certainly not standard in the private sector to have someone who is not your boss send out a blanket email telling you to bullet point out what you did last week and threatening to fire anyone who refuses

 

[djmich]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks. And it is most certainly not standard in the private sector to have someone who is not your boss send out a blanket email telling you to bullet point out what you did last week and threatening to fire anyone who refuses

It is very standard in the private sector that if you're operating and a large deficit (net income losses), that new management is hired and new management is going to hire some firms like EY, McKinsey, Accenture, etc. to come in and figure out WTF is going on. Heck, they made a great movie out of it...Office Space lol

 

[-OZ-]

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

We discussed this before, but it mostly is due to expectations. It sucks when a good employee loses their job because the company is having troubles, but we’ve come to expect it. Along with that expectation usually comes higher compensation for the individual. Often, government employees are there for a combination of belief that what they’re doing matters (which can absolutely be the case outside of the government) and more stability.
Just as an example, my close colleagues could get paid double or more in firms or as in house counsel. I see many offers made to others leaving the government, most start somewhere between 1.5 - 2x their federal salary.
Of course, many take advantage of that stability and get complacent. That’s a problem that needs addressing.

 

[the moops]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks. And it is most certainly not standard in the private sector to have someone who is not your boss send out a blanket email telling you to bullet point out what you did last week and threatening to fire anyone who refuses

It is very standard in the private sector that if you're operating and a large deficit (net income losses), that new management is hired and new management is going to hire some firms like EY, McKinsey, Accenture, etc. to come in and figure out WTF is going on. Heck, they made a great movie out of it...Office Space lol

Yes, they hire firms and go through a detailed accounting and such. That is not what is happening here though and we all know it.

 

[djmich]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks. And it is most certainly not standard in the private sector to have someone who is not your boss send out a blanket email telling you to bullet point out what you did last week and threatening to fire anyone who refuses

It is very standard in the private sector that if you're operating and a large deficit (net income losses), that new management is hired and new management is going to hire some firms like EY, McKinsey, Accenture, etc. to come in and figure out WTF is going on. Heck, they made a great movie out of it...Office Space lol

Yes, they hire firms and go through a detailed accounting and such. That is not what is happening here though and we all know it.

True, and I'd do it differently for sure. But, this is also a very different situation than any private firm.

 

[titusbramble]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

Having seen that there are people who are on the social security database who are seemingly alive since before the US was an independent country, I would count nothing out as ludicrous.

 

[the moops]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

Having seen that there are people who are on the social security database who are seemingly alive since before the US was an independent country, I would count nothing out as ludicrous.

Oh god. You know that has been thoroughly debunked right?

 

[fruity pebbles]

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

We discussed this before, but it mostly is due to expectations. It sucks when a good employee loses their job because the company is having troubles, but we’ve come to expect it. Along with that expectation usually comes higher compensation for the individual. Often, government employees are there for a combination of belief that what they’re doing matters (which can absolutely be the case outside of the government) and more stability.
Just as an example, my close colleagues could get paid double or more in firms or as in house counsel. I see many offers made to others leaving the government, most start somewhere between 1.5 - 2x their federal salary.
Of course, many take advantage of that stability and get complacent. That’s a problem that needs addressing.

Law I can definitely see taking a pay cut but that’s not true in all industries. With the much better benefits there are a lot of jobs that there’s no way you’d make anything close to that in the private sector. When the DFAS center I was at closed years ago, most of the people there took huge pay cuts in their next job and most took jobs that weren’t similar to what they were doing before.

 

[Stoneworker]

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

It is not ludicrous one bit.

Last year when my father passed away, instead of converting my living mother's SS paychecks as surviving spouse to my father's higher amount, the gov't shut down both SS accounts and my mother was left with zero income for six months before it got resolved.

All because their outdated COBOL systems "deleted the wrong record." And if I hadn't intervened, the gov't would never have noticed it

So similar errors involving the data records of deceased persons could just as easily occur

 

[ghostguy123]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks. And it is most certainly not standard in the private sector to have someone who is not your boss send out a blanket email telling you to bullet point out what you did last week and threatening to fire anyone who refuses

I had someone who wasn't my boss send out a blanket email telling us if we didn't get the covid vaccine we would be fired. I didn't think that was standard either.

 

[djmich]

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

We discussed this before, but it mostly is due to expectations. It sucks when a good employee loses their job because the company is having troubles, but we’ve come to expect it. Along with that expectation usually comes higher compensation for the individual. Often, government employees are there for a combination of belief that what they’re doing matters (which can absolutely be the case outside of the government) and more stability.
Just as an example, my close colleagues could get paid double or more in firms or as in house counsel. I see many offers made to others leaving the government, most start somewhere between 1.5 - 2x their federal salary.
Of course, many take advantage of that stability and get complacent. That’s a problem that needs addressing.

The bolded is big part of the equation that makes this very different from a private firm. Wrong or right, this administration believes that a very large contingent of the federal workforce is not aligned with their agenda. They saw it the first go at it in 2016 and they feel that it set them back. They see it in the voting patterns of the workers at USAID for example. The see it in specific actions of individuals that are contrary to this administration's goals and objectives. To the bolded, for many people in government today, to them what matters is the opposite of what this administration wants.

I think this very much is informing the speed and callousness. Not a judgment either way, just perspective on the why and why different.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

pentagon confirmed to fire 5400 civilians this week, why wait and sort through the low performers when you can just will nilly it

Furthermore, Hegseth is not the first leader in the Trump administration to claim that a purge of employees would focus on low performers. However, reporting from CNN showed that, whatever the intent, the outcome seems to be that the firings are arbitrary and often encompass top-performing employees.

DOGE's efforts at trimming the federal workforce have also generated numerous headlines of the Trump administration firing key employees such as experts who are responsible for America's nuclear weapons or scientists trying to fight a worsening outbreak of bird flu only to realize their mistake and try to hire those employees back.

Thousands of Pentagon Civilian Workers Will Be Fired Next Week as Trump Purge Begins

The massive round of firings is part of an "initial effort" to cut the Defense Department's civilian workforce by 5% to 8% and was to be followed up with a hiring freeze.

www.military.com

 

[the moops]

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

It is not ludicrous one bit.

Last year when my father passed away, instead of converting my living mother's SS paychecks as surviving spouse to my father's higher amount, the gov't shut down both SS accounts and my mother was left with zero income for six months before it got resolved.

All because their outdated COBOL systems "deleted the wrong record." And if I hadn't intervened, the gov't would never have noticed it

So similar errors involving the data records of deceased persons could just as easily occur

We aren't talking social security here. The tweet says that deceased government workers are collecting checks

 

[titusbramble]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

Having seen that there are people who are on the social security database who are seemingly alive since before the US was an independent country, I would count nothing out as ludicrous.

Oh god. You know that has been thoroughly debunked right?

I must have missed the community note on the tweet Elon made, did it get removed? They're pretty quick at noting Elon if it has been "thoroughly debunked". Yeah, that one outlier is clearly a data error/handling error, but the 8+ million people who are supposedly living today who would be a world record holder? Are you claiming that is all the same problem? Why is it so hard for some people to believe that data that the government holds is, in fact, crap, and that might apply in many different areas? It is truly astounding that people do not want to look to do extremely low cost checks clear all the low hanging fruit in terms of savings where we may have waste or fraud. The only reasonably opposition argument I can see to it is that whoever is opposing is in on it.

 

[djmich]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

Having seen that there are people who are on the social security database who are seemingly alive since before the US was an independent country, I would count nothing out as ludicrous.

Oh god. You know that has been thoroughly debunked right?

I must have missed the community note on the tweet Elon made, did it get removed? They're pretty quick at noting Elon if it has been "thoroughly debunked". Yeah, that one outlier is clearly a data error/handling error, but the 8+ million people who are supposedly living today who would be a world record holder? Are you claiming that is all the same problem? Why is it so hard for some people to believe that data that the government holds is, in fact, crap, and that might apply in many different areas? It is truly astounding that people do not want to look to do extremely low cost checks clear all the low hanging fruit in terms of savings where we may have waste or fraud. The only reasonably opposition argument I can see to it is that whoever is opposing is in on it.

Its hard to community note something that there's no counterpoint analysis for...its sort of Elon's word.

Its not hard for me to believe the government data is wrong. I want them to investigate it but that doesn't mean Elon is right, and he is too fast and loose with facts and context imo.

 

[Stoneworker]

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks.

It is not ludicrous one bit.

Last year when my father passed away, instead of converting my living mother's SS paychecks as surviving spouse to my father's higher amount, the gov't shut down both SS accounts and my mother was left with zero income for six months before it got resolved.

All because their outdated COBOL systems "deleted the wrong record." And if I hadn't intervened, the gov't would never have noticed it

So similar errors involving the data records of deceased persons could just as easily occur

We aren't talking social security here. The tweet says that deceased government workers are collecting checks

It's the same underlying system

 

[-OZ-]

Law I can definitely see taking a pay cut but that’s not true in all industries. With the much better benefits there are a lot of jobs that there’s no way you’d make anything close to that in the private sector.

There’s some of that sure. Here, I work mainly with engineers - aerospace, mechanical, etc.
benefits are nice, sure. But many of us are retired military and don’t use many of the benefits of civil service. We just like what we do, feel like we’re good at it, and find value in it.

 

[the moops]

It's the same underlying system

Maybe, but government workers have bosses that approve timecards and HR departments. I find it dubious that people are just going along with this and issuing checks to people who don't even work for them

 

[Instinctive]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

I think it should largely be. Large layoffs have been happening in the private sector for a couple years now with no notice or recourse and like you said nobody cared. Is it the process or the layoffs themselves in government that are causing people to be up in arms?

I don't think that's true. I think the government is MUCH bigger and therefore touches a lot more people. I think anyone affected by layoffs at a company certainly cared. Towns that take a huge economic hit care. Families that lost jobs care. People like me who weren't laid off but could have been were wildly stressed for over a year as they happened.

If anything, your takeaway shouldn't be that nobody cares before, it should be a light upon how HUGE the government is.

 

[Instinctive]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because it is ludicrous to think there are dead people collecting paychecks. And it is most certainly not standard in the private sector to have someone who is not your boss send out a blanket email telling you to bullet point out what you did last week and threatening to fire anyone who refuses

I mean it's not that ludicrous. Where my wife grew up, you definitely get a lot of fraud to protect a draw even if someone disappears or died. A draw is real money in poorer parts of the country.

FWIW, using hyperbolic words like "ludicrous" also only tend to enflame and make politicization more likely. Let's try to avoid them.

 

[fruity pebbles]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

I think it should largely be. Large layoffs have been happening in the private sector for a couple years now with no notice or recourse and like you said nobody cared. Is it the process or the layoffs themselves in government that are causing people to be up in arms?

I don't think that's true. I think the government is MUCH bigger and therefore touches a lot more people. I think anyone affected by layoffs at a company certainly cared. Towns that take a huge economic hit care. Families that lost jobs care. People like me who weren't laid off but could have been were wildly stressed for over a year as they happened.

If anything, your takeaway shouldn't be that nobody cares before, it should be a light upon how HUGE the government is.

Yeah those affected obviously care but when 10,000+ were let go from Tesla, Intel, Meta etc it was a small news blurb. I get what you’re saying though, this could dwarf those.

 

[Capella]

Elon believes in some weird conspiracies.

The reason this matters is that a significant number of people who are supposed to be working for the government are doing so little work that they are not checking their email at all!In some cases, we believe non-existent people or the identities of dead people are being used to collect paychecks. In other words, there is outright fraud.

He tweeted this? Bonkers stuff.

If it isn't a problem, then cool. If it is a problem, then why would anyone be opposed to sacking people who are doing literally nothing and taking taxpayer's money? This sort of thing is incredibly standard in the private sector and takes maybe two minutes. Cannot understand for a single moment the opposition to a lowest bar possible check on whether someone is actually doing work

Because all federal employees have a manager who does a mid year and annual evaluation for them? Why would we need Elon Musk to send an email to verify anything? It’s absolutely bonkers.

 

[djmich]

You could make an argument that this is a coincidence of sorts. I don't want to discuss it politically here, but the reputation of the parties is certainly small govt conservatism vs big government spending - so of course if you're just tracking waste, you'd look at all the stuff you think is wasteful first, which would likely be anything that extends beyond the "small govt" ideology.

I think it would be difficult to untangle the two because, for example, one persons idea of waste could be "not achieving the agency's mission in the most efficient possible manner" while another could be "anything in support of a mission that in itself is wasteful".

The FFA probably isn't the place for debating what is or isn't a wasteful mission, but I don't think it's remotely ground breaking, surprising, or sinister that things might line up that way quickly in execution of a huge waste reduction initiative.

Thank you.

I agree with you this doesn't seem groundbreaking it would line up this way.

And please, let's drop it there and keep this to the topic of non partisan information and helping people affected by this navigate. The "what is wasteful spending" or "look at how dumb these people are" stuff is political forum talk.

Please let's keep this thread alive if possible and avoid taking it there.

I'm glad you popped in here because I want to ask a couple tough questions and you are the guy to set the narrative or keep us on track

-#1 I've seen it with people from ALL walks of life on the TV, ALL Networks...with these potential mass layoffs, many of us have family members that we do not associate with a particular political party. They are just regular people like the rest of us. And some of these people are being shown the door or walked out or asked to voluntarily resign.

How do you accept that innocent folks are having their entire lives turned upside down?
It feels very unsettling, my brother has worked for Veterans Affairs for years and I'm afraid that time is coming to an end. He is in IT-CyberSecurity so I have no doubt he will land on his feet but that choice should not have been forced on him IMHO. He sacrifices a lot of potential paycheck by working as a government employee and part of that his dedication to other Veterans that have put their lives on the line so we can all enjoy the freedoms of this country. My brother was a Navy Corpsman

#2 Is it natural to support some of these cuts in government while at the same time also feeling disturbed by some of the folks that are being forced out of their careers?

I believe that is as far as I can really take it. I just want others out there going thru this either themselves or family members, you're not alone.
I am concerned many of these folks are likely living paycheck to paycheck, people with families/children could lose their homes as this unfolds.

Thanks JB

It’s interesting to watch how this is being viewed when this happens in the private sector every day. It’s accepted because, “Capitalism”, but we expect more from government. And maybe that is the discussion - should government be run like a for-profit organization? I suppose you can then have a discussion around the morality of Capitalism.

I think it should largely be. Large layoffs have been happening in the private sector for a couple years now with no notice or recourse and like you said nobody cared. Is it the process or the layoffs themselves in government that are causing people to be up in arms?

I don't think that's true. I think the government is MUCH bigger and therefore touches a lot more people. I think anyone affected by layoffs at a company certainly cared. Towns that take a huge economic hit care. Families that lost jobs care. People like me who weren't laid off but could have been were wildly stressed for over a year as they happened.

If anything, your takeaway shouldn't be that nobody cares before, it should be a light upon how HUGE the government is.

Yeah those affected obviously care but when 10,000+ were let go from Tesla, Intel, Meta etc it was a small news blurb. I get what you’re saying though, this could dwarf those.

And by and large, nobody voted for the CEO of Intel and has an ax to grind with him or her.

 

[Capella]

FWIW, using hyperbolic words like "ludicrous" also only tend to enflame and make politicization more likely. Let's try to avoid them.

Sorry but it’s ludicrous to suggest or even think for a second dead people are drawing federal paychecks. There are so many checks on this it’s lunacy. Maybe somebody died and got paid an extra few weeks or something but to think it’s a widespread issue or some dead guy has been collecting checks for 40 years is just nonsense.

 

[Instinctive]

FWIW, using hyperbolic words like "ludicrous" also only tend to enflame and make politicization more likely. Let's try to avoid them.

Sorry but it’s ludicrous to suggest or even think for a second dead people are drawing federal paychecks. There are so many checks on this it’s lunacy. Maybe somebody died and got paid an extra few weeks or something but to think it’s a widespread issue or some dead guy has been collecting checks for 40 years is just nonsense.

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

It's "ludicrous" to act like you know everything.

And it's also just latching onto one example. Of which there should be zero disagreement on whether it's wasteful.

I don't want to get into a debate, knowing your background here. I'm sure you're hurting. Just know we're thinking of you and I think many, including me, wish this was done with more care. I understand exactly the stress you're under and hope you come through the other side.

 

[the moops]

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

Again, this is not SS checks that we are talking about. This is about non-existent or deceased employees that apparently are still getting checks

 

[Capella]

FWIW, using hyperbolic words like "ludicrous" also only tend to enflame and make politicization more likely. Let's try to avoid them.

Sorry but it’s ludicrous to suggest or even think for a second dead people are drawing federal paychecks. There are so many checks on this it’s lunacy. Maybe somebody died and got paid an extra few weeks or something but to think it’s a widespread issue or some dead guy has been collecting checks for 40 years is just nonsense.

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

It's "ludicrous" to act like you know everything.

And it's also just latching onto one example. Of which there should be zero disagreement on whether it's wasteful.

I don't want to get into a debate, knowing your background here. I'm sure you're hurting. Just know we're thinking of you and I think many, including me, wish this was done with more care. I understand exactly the stress you're under and hope you come through the other side.

I’m not under any stress. My job is likely safe and I have plenty of money. Why are you talking about SS payments when we are talking about “dead” federal employees collecting free paychecks? Those are two incredibly different things. That’s like me saying I like oranges and you saying apples suck.

Also my dad died in December and he never saw another SS check after that. Worked flawlessly for us.

 

[Stoneworker]

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

Again, this is not SS checks that we are talking about. This is about non-existent or deceased employees that apparently are still getting checks

My money is on the investigation turning up fraud involving non-existent and/or identity theft involving deceased employees. You can believe what you like. Carry on.

 

[Capella]

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

Again, this is not SS checks that we are talking about. This is about non-existent or deceased employees that apparently are still getting checks

My money is on the investigation turning up fraud involving non-existent and/or identity theft involving deceased employees. You can believe what you like. Carry on.

So these dead people’s managers and then the multiple people above them who have to certify that the time cards are true are signing off on this every two weeks? Why would they do that?

Respectfully, some of you are showing you have no idea how the government works. You just don’t get a paycheck. It’s a process with checks involved.

 

[uwillbsoon]

It seems pretty clear to me that the "dead people" argument was made after the emails were sent and Musk started losing the PR war.

Seems clear that's not the intent of the email - to find the dead folks. If it is, it's less efficient than paying dead people in a lot of respects.

 

[Stoneworker]

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

Again, this is not SS checks that we are talking about. This is about non-existent or deceased employees that apparently are still getting checks

My money is on the investigation turning up fraud involving non-existent and/or identity theft involving deceased employees. You can believe what you like. Carry on.

So these dead people’s managers and then the multiple people above them who have to certify that the time cards are true are signing off on this every two weeks? Why would they do that?

Respectfully, some of you are showing you have no idea how the government works. You just don’t get a paycheck. It’s a process with checks involved.

Okay, you pulled the "I work for the government card" so I guess that ends the conversation. Carry on.

 

[the moops]

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

Again, this is not SS checks that we are talking about. This is about non-existent or deceased employees that apparently are still getting checks

My money is on the investigation turning up fraud involving non-existent and/or identity theft involving deceased employees. You can believe what you like. Carry on.

So these dead people’s managers and then the multiple people above them who have to certify that the time cards are true are signing off on this every two weeks? Why would they do that?

Respectfully, some of you are showing you have no idea how the government works. You just don’t get a paycheck. It’s a process with checks involved.

Okay, you pulled the "I work for the government card" so I guess that ends the conversation. Carry on.

Don't you think someone who knows how the payroll works may have some insight and not just be ignored?

 

[Stoneworker]

We got social security checks for my 80 year old grandfather for 15 months after his death in spite of us reporting them repeatedly (15 times) and not cashing them. Just kept coming.

Again, this is not SS checks that we are talking about. This is about non-existent or deceased employees that apparently are still getting checks

My money is on the investigation turning up fraud involving non-existent and/or identity theft involving deceased employees. You can believe what you like. Carry on.

So these dead people’s managers and then the multiple people above them who have to certify that the time cards are true are signing off on this every two weeks? Why would they do that?

Respectfully, some of you are showing you have no idea how the government works. You just don’t get a paycheck. It’s a process with checks involved.

Okay, you pulled the "I work for the government card" so I guess that ends the conversation. Carry on.

Don't you think someone who knows how the payroll works may have some insight and not just be ignored?

How about someone who has a close family relation that does COBOL programming for the Feds. Do you think that person might have some insight into some of these systems?

 

[Instinctive]

Just knock off the sniping. Jesus. It's like some of you can't help yourselves.

 

[Stoneworker]

Sure. But they still have to submit timesheets. I have no doubt there may be questionable SS checks going out.

How you get 3 levels of approved timesheets to pay a dead person every 2 weeks seems unlikely. If they uncover some sort of shenanigans great but I'm sure family members would have put in to collect the life insurance policy and managers we just keep rolling with it?

Obviously any identity theft/fraud scheme would be designed to circumvent in-place checks and balances. It could also possibly be occurring past the human level and at the system level

This whole thing started with someone saying this type of fraud was "ludicrous." And if it's a consensus of you saying it's impossible then that's fine.

But like I said my money is on there being some fire with the smoke given the amount of bank and other financial fraud that occurs where there are also plenty of checks and balances.

Happy to leave it there

 

[the moops]

Sure. But they still have to submit timesheets. I have no doubt there may be questionable SS checks going out.

How you get 3 levels of approved timesheets to pay a dead person every 2 weeks seems unlikely. If they uncover some sort of shenanigans great but I'm sure family members would have put in to collect the life insurance policy and managers we just keep rolling with it?

Obviously any identity theft/fraud scheme would be designed to circumvent in-place checks and balances. It could also possibly be occurring past the human level and at the system level

This whole thing started with someone saying this type of fraud was "ludicrous." And if it's a consensus of you saying it's impossible then that's fine.

But like I said my money is on there being some fire with the smoke given the amount of bank and other financial fraud that occurs where there are also plenty of checks and balances.

Happy to leave it there

I don't think we need to just leave it here. We should discuss these things. I shouldn't have used the word ludicrous - I will refrain from such language going forward.

I do think that we are trying to compare two vastly different things. Just because they both fall under the feds and under payments, i don't think they need to be discussed together.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if there is social security fraud. I just have a hard time figuring out how dead people are getting current paychecks from the feds, when as many have pointed out, it would need to involve several layers of fraud/incompetence/ignorance/etc.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Just knock off the sniping. Jesus. It's like some of you can't help yourselves.

Exactly. No facts being shared. No personal stories. No links. Just a few people bickering about non-specific, poorly articulated pet issues.

This is why we can’t have nice things in the FFA

 

[MAC_32]

I don't think we need to just leave it here.

Those of us that want this thread to remain open don't agree

 

[MAC_32]

The government pay system is not really much different than private pay systems I've worked

You fill out your timesheet and sign it. Then my manager approves it.

Then the next level usually managers manager assistant checks the time codes and signs off.

I think of the level of that happening is equal in private and public sector.

I am actively working to get the last person on our team to exempt so no one in our group continues to waste time submitting timesheets.

 

[ChicoCat]

I'm sure in this country; there's payments going out that constitute fraud; both at the SS level and even on the Federal employee timesheet level. How many instances of it would be needed to be found to justify the uncertainty and stress Federal employees are currently feeling?